willie horton ads, powell was appalled, found this was unacceptable, and so he wouldn't take the initial jobs that were offered, stayed in the army, and eventually bush made him chairman of the joint chiefs and powell accepted and he had quite a close relationship. but that initial -- he wasn't going to play ball with even a president who had played the willie horton card in a very ugly political race-baiting way. >> it was an awful ad. it was an awful time for those of us old enough to remember that. another interesting part of your interview, though, with him was this comment he made about this characterization of him as a reluctant warrior. here it is. >> the reluctant warrior. whenever that is asked of me, i