if anything, they want certainty, and anything -- any number of things that have taken place in the last several months have given them no assurance that they can trust us, that they can count on us or know what the president will do next. >> secretary pompeo, of course, has been loyal, but he's very respected. was he standing up to the president? there? in his own mild way, yes. that's as much as anybody can stand up to the president at this point. >> so i want to can you about one other major story tonight. multiple senior officials, congressmen, who served under trump are telling us that the president has repeatedly expressed opposition to using basically spies, right? you know, covert sources of people who are not american to get information. he doesn't trust them, and he thinks it will damage his relationship with the foreign leaders because the united states is -- is using spies from those countries. do you think that he has a point? >>. >> i think the president has no