convoluted. and that is why the process arguments have sort of been working so far. which is like when you say the democrats don't understand the rules or they're making it up, that's not true. the democrats have followed all the rules. but your average american doesn't know how it's supposed to work. >> rachel, we've already seen from the white house and the department of justice basically block some folks who were supposed to be on the hill next week. what do democrats do the about the fact that some of these key witnesses in some instances, when you think about john bolton and the aid to mick mulvaney say they're not going to come? >> democrats have had a lot of success in convincing trump officials lower down to come in and tell their stories. as we get higher up the food chain, they're expecting a lot of people are going to stonewall and not show up. democrats have this planned and they're going to incorporate that into an article of impeachment and obstruction of justice and they're going to say the president is obstructing us from doing our job, obstructing