said was associated with the office of management and budget is a number that could go to multiple officials within the white house complex, including the white house itself. people say he was calling specifically about the hold on the military money. why would he be calling otherwise? is this it? >> i don't know if it's a big deal or not in the big scheme of things, but what it does show is there is a need for democrats to be careful here about what evidence they are putting out. because it is an important distinction, whether rudy giuliani was calling the white house, maybe calling the president through the switchboard or calling mick mulvaney and whether he was calling directly to the office of management and budget. the fact that they may not have known the answer to that question before they put out these call logs is -- there's no real good excuse for that. and i think that it really calls into question the carefulness with which they're putting out some of this information, and it's only going to erode their standing with the public if