good guide for how to get things done. and he felt these were the appropriate groups. >> he wanted to keep them separate. >> it's important for people to understand, it's not as if these members don't talk to each other in congress or don't have meetings with each other. >> so of course there is still a lot of negotiating happening here. the white house does say they feel they are getting to the final stages of these talks, though of course a big critical piece of this, and that some lawmakers have said they like to see done today which is in agreement on a top line number. yes, there are many other areas in which they disagree, including climate change and what the provisions are going to be around that how do you get there, is there a carbon tax, is there not a carbon tax. they have not agreed on an actual price tag for this bill, and that is going to be a big stepping-stone before they decide the other pieces of what goes in and comes out, and that is not a place they are in yet today as these meetings are happening. >> i guess one woman's duel is another woman's in-person negotiation, but okay. manu, let's switch gears a little bit.