working as trump's former white house chief of staff and therefore should have immunity from the fulton county chargesch but let's unpack this for a second, because, tom, obviously, there is the hatch act, there are things that you can't do as a federal official. you can't engage in outside political activity, you're not supposed to do that. we saw the trump -- members of the trump administration, get in trouble for that sort of thing. and so is he going to argue, well, that he was doing these sort of things, he was getting involved in an election as the white house chief of staff? i don't understand how that would work. >> i think his argument is that, look, the chief of staff and the president were interested in getting an honest vote count in georgia. not saying this argument carries weight but i think it is what they're going to say. and he's going to say he placed the call to the georgia official and spoke as the chief of staff of the president in an effort to get the vote count correct and i think what fani willis is going to argue in response, wait a