several times to frighten ukraine to death. if he could just drive the investment away, devalue the currency, cut off its energy, force 10 million ukrainians to get in their cars or get on trains and start walking and leave the country, he'd be very happy. and so president zelensky's trying to hold this together so without panicking the population. when i talk to people in ukraine, many of them say yes, it's serious and yes, we see the build-up, but we still don't think putin will be dumb enough to do this. see, he could roll in over much of ukraine. it's just empty farmland. and he could launch big air strikes. but ultimately he's got to deal with kharkiv and kyiv and petrov. and when he tries to deal with these urban areas, in 2014 he made an effort to seize kharkiv and he was fought off in kharkiv, the separatists were. kyiv is a hotbed of ukrainian