where literally, the president can say i had nothing to do with any of these scandals. >> until you can prove and look, again, americans are smart and willing to reserve judgment. bill clinton had very high approval ratings in terms of his performance as president, even though the american people felt that morally, he was -- >> a scumbag. use the technical term. >> ronald reagan, again, the teflon president. why? even though all the iran contrastuff was breaking in his second term, he was considered this happy lawyer. people liked him personally. people are able to separate thou they feel about someone personally. until there's a clear connection between the oval office and the justice department -- >> should eric holder resign? >> i think you need an independent -- >> i say yes. there is no doubt about it. eric holder should resign. >> i think for what he's done with rosen at fox news, i think that is completely unacceptable. he has personally authorized them going after him. i don't think that's acceptable behavior by the attorney general. i actually quite like eric holder. i think he's a smart guy. i think he's crossed the line. >> it's also the perception of impropriety. we could make a compelling