in some kind of terrorist activity but what risk and damage to the average american's privacy do you think? >> well, clearly, the information that they have gleamed from this program has led to bad guys being stopped from doing bad things. i think it's probably a little over reach to say that we would have stopped 9/11 if this program was in place. we don't know what people would have done with that information. but to me, the issue is this, that i think administration needs to give the american people more credit. i think we should have a much more public debate about private programs, not giving out detailed information but leveling with the american public about what kind of information that administration thinks it needs. my problem is that so much of the war on terror is being conducted behind closed doors, whether it be the drone program or whether it be these nsa data collection programs, and the american public doesn't need to know every detail, but they certainly should be part of the discussion. >> senator murphy, thank you very much indeed for joining me. >> thanks, piers. coming up next, a man that never holds back, donald trump, and thinks hillary clinton will