korea are at an impasse right now. there is no dialogue. no conversation. since the failure of the hanoi summit, and then covid years, there has been no conversation between americans and the north koreans. >> and i think that might surprise people given how many trump was meeting with kim jong-un and they did have that summit in vietnam. there has been no contact between the biden administration and north korea. they're not responding to the biden administration. so what do they do in this situation? >> i think the north koreans will take their time. since all the diplomacy of 2018, 2019, that diplomacy have completely collapsed. and north koreans have been modernizing and expanding their nuclear missile arsenal. over 30 missile tests this year. there is no talk. north koreans might be like, we aren't interested in conversation. >> could they try to use him as a pawn? >> potentially. but north koreans might say,