lines, but there are a lot of, no, obama's fault, no, bush's fault. and i believe the general public will shut its ears to the whole thing. >> when president obama called it hype in that clip we played before the break, he then went on to say no one's listening to anyone's phone calls. nobody in the press reported that, they said they have the the phone records of every call made by every american. so where are you on this? >> all of the reassurances that this is not a big deal, these stories, they don't reassure. because what he's saying there ignores the fact that modern technology allows us to infer a lot based on the data that we do know that they're getting. and these stories when people say, well, both administrations did can it, so it's not a big deal, no, that makes it a bigger deal. if the law allows it, which is another excuse being made, that's a problem. that's a problematic story. >> charlie, you were co-author of a story yesterday, i have it here, saying this kind of data