column. dahl dahlia, you said the fog machine is something trump defenders want to benefit from. last weekend the gop senator saying i don't know if it was russia or ukraine that interfered in the election. the idea is what? that because nothing is noble, they'll side with trump? is that what they want? >> yeah. we have to remember and caroline knows this better than i do. part of this is a state of mind question. and if what in the end of the day the defense is, it was perfectly reasonable for trump to believe that ukraine interfered in 2016. even if that's untrue, all you need to do is build the case that it was reasonable for trump to think it. and if you go back and look at some of the witnesses and the impeachment so far, what we've heard is steve caster questioning on behalf of senate republicans saying it would have been perfectly plausible that trump could infer that ukraine was meddling. a lot of witnesses were like i guess it's plausible. that's building a defense. >> now, your law firm represents