been would be successful. i think men would be -- men tend to seem more genuine and if women become more successful, they have an you will there are motive. >> a finding the real heidi found troubling ten years after her own credentials were put to the test. >> that to me is one of those disturbing subtle things. it is fundamentally people are more trusting of people who look and sound and act like them and so if you're in a room full of men and you're the only woman, there is a different level of trust there until you earn it. >> which means any changes in the way the heidis of the world are perceived will have to include the howards. >> we have to let women talk about this. i hope men enter the conversation and the controversy around my book because every issue, not just mine, every issue because we need men to talk about this, too, if it is ever going to change. >> sheryl sandberg says men have big incentives to help women