i'm wondering if i'm getting ahead of myself. can technology really help us live forever? >> pleasure to meet you. >> jaron lanier is a virtual reality pioneer who helped create the first avatar. but he has a surprising message. technology might not be the key to immortality. >> so as a virtual reality guru, what are your thoughts on this idea that we will one day be able to merge ourselves with technology to live forever? >> my old buddy ray kurzweil talks about uploading people into virtual reality. and you know, having built a lot of virtual reality machines, it's a great place to visit. it's not someplace you want to live really. especially not forever. right now, we don't know how the brain encodes information. oh, yeah, but sure we'll be able to download the brain. i mean, there's a bit of hubris there. we have a lot more to learn about the brain. so hypothetically. but you know, if we're talking about that already, we're being kind of nutty. >> the year 2000. >> and maybe jaron has a point.