wounded. i also think, i know we kind of laughed and jest about it, but i think ramaswamy has a chance to creep up near third or touch the third place and be close. i think that most of his voters are younger, they may not come out in the blizzard or weather, he's done a decent job with media in iowa and we'll see how that plays out. >> as i recall, four years ago, then vice president joe biden, what did he come in fifth in iowa? >> fourth. >> i'm sorry. >> somebody remembers. >> so i remember being in a caucus room and we were doing live interviews with different groups if people are familiar with how they work, but they have a group of i guess it was kamala harris supporters, a group of bernie sanders and buttigieg supporters an there were these sweet little hopeful biden supporters that -- i said hope springs eternal and they were right and i was wrong. >> their hope was if the right place.