was you know what, at a certain point, these members, these new members, are going to learn the hard way that the american public doesn't like the idea of shutting the government down. that in the end, they understand that there are lots of important services that are provided by the government and that they don't want to see them come to a full stop or even be threatened, but his point to me was they are just going to have to learn it, lots of members were here for the shut-downs in the '90s, these people weren't, and so maybe there is just no talking to them. >> the democrats watching this internal republican debate from the sidelines, what's their strategy right now? >> well, you know the old rule in politics, when the other party is in a circular firing squad, don't interrupt. that's what most democrats say. it's true, there's no question the democrats have the political advantage here in the short term on this shut-down fight. here's the challenge for the