subpoenaed and interviewed by the same new york ag's office, and he actually raised the fifth amendment multiple times. i think it was dozens, if not hundreds of times, in response to questions. that is still an option for either ivanka or don jr. or donald trump. but it's not a viable one when you're talking about the scope of other litigation efforts or prosecution efforts, right? what you do in one context civilly might not be to your benefit in a criminal context, right? >> that's right. the new york ag tish james investigation here is civil. and when you take the fifth amendment in a civil case -- inference can be drawn. that is the fact that you took the fifth amendment can be used against you and can cause you to lose the civil case. but it also creates issues when donald trump must simultaneously face possible criminal indictment, investigation for