role. he was giving the president advice but half the things he was doing on tv was putting out talking points, taking the sting out, things like that. and everything he's done with ukraine, he can say it's as lawyer but just ladling it, it doesn't make it. he was a de facto secretary of state -- i don't know. >> that's my point. the other thing is like the president has a legal team. he's in court all the time. there are some real highly paid very adept lawyers defending him in court. rudy giuliani is not doing that notably. thank you both. joining me now is democratic senator chris van hollen of maryland who's been investigating the trump administration's freeze of military aid to ukraine. senator, i wanted to talk to you about that because i think it has gotten a little lost in the shuffle whether the freeze itself was lawful or unlawful. what is your sense of why the freeze happened and whether it is lawful or unlawful? >> well, as to whether or not it