on a large scale, it feels morally like that's a terrible choice, let alone legally. but this is where ron desantis wound up, i suppose. >> yeah, and it's a weird place for him to be. we're going to talk a little bit more about him later on in the program. kimberly, this federalist society conference, i've got to say, it's making a lot of headlines in just the last 24 hours or so. we have desantis' remarks, mike pence's comments, but i thought one of the more interesting things was neil gorsuch, justice neil gorsuch, deciding to give or agreeing to give a speech there that i should note closed-door, no media allowed, at this openly political conservative organization. and it begs the question, what do you make of that given all the recent republican talking points about how biden's scotus nominee shouldn't be too progressive or political and they want someone as justice kennedy was saying, rewrite the constitution and be political?