russia invaded in 2014 and there still are separatists -- that might be why they're so blaise. >> what do you make of that statement in. >> it's really complicated. i did hear one thing from the ukrainian minister of defense estimating that the numbers had to be higher, but i think they are those numbers that courtney mentioned at the outset where those 30 battalion task groups are coming to the border soon so they may change what they're saying. but they don't want to alarm their people. i think that's important to note. part of putin's game is to see whether the government in kyiv can crack.