he turns around and makes a different privilege argument that these gentlemen working with rudy giuliani may be entitled to a kind of attorney-client privilege or a work product privilege. different privileges that apply when an attorney arguably in this case, rudy giuliani, is providing legal advice and services. but he has to be providing legal advice and services for privileges to apply. the attorney-client privilege doesn't automatically apply because i'm a lawyer and we happen to be talking about something legal right now. >> what is the end game here, when you have giuliani saying basically i haven't made up my mind and one of the issues is that he thinks this is an illicit committee, you have the attorney saying the chairman is a liar, and he's going to go in front of the committee with the chairman who he believes is a liar. what do you make of ha? what's the ending there? >> the end game, as usual, is the courts and if they want to fight this out, this he can take it to the courts and in that case, the advantage arguably goes to giuliani, because this will result in delay.