being used as a tool for partisan agenda. he said what i don't have control over is the tone, the message, the public face and approach of the department in an increasingly polarized time. that's unkmshl, he says, as the accountable senior figure. you've been in his shoes before. does the president's rhetoric put him in a tough spot. >> it puts him in a tough spot. the fact that the president continues to promote his staff, they put him out on the sunday talk shows and out at the white house to talk about things far outside the scope of his agency. all of that sends a message undermining the secretary within the department. i i didn't think kefren deserves a lot of credit. he's undertaken some of the higher profile things that the white house has pushed out and spent a lot of time working on the situation at the border. i do think we're seeing results. "the new york times" story says kevin had to tell the border patrol agents not to engage in unlawful activity after the president told them directly to do it. it does appear to me that kevin is being undermined by the white house. >> john, your perspective is so interesting.