is basically a normal tech problem type of thing, not a good one, obviously, versus sabotage? >> so i think everything we are hearing now, chuck, it is a normal tech-type thing. they said their service configuration disrupted their services and they were able to get it back online in 15 minutes. i think the time from compromise to outage and resurrection usually can be a strong indicator that it was something that happened internally so it was a tech issue with a significant impact. >> let me start with ransom. i want to get both of you on this issue. i had a divide on my sunday show. i had a mark warner, who wasn't ready to go there on banning ransom payments. i had jennifer granholm said if it was up to her, she would ban ransom payments.