rumors from reporters that the grand jury considering charges against mr. mccabe had declined to vote an indictment. we believe that if the grand jury has in fact voted a here they use a legal term we'll explain in a minute, not a true bill, the justice manual compels you not to resubmit the case to the same or a different grand jury. as "the wall street journal" headline puts it tonight, it's a sign that the case may be in jeopardy. former u.s. attorney harry litman, a frequent guest of ours offers this context. quote, a grand jury's refusal to return an indictment is something that happens once every five years in a given office. if it occurred here, given the magnitude, visibility of the mccabe case, it is a stunning and humiliating rebuke for overreaching and playing politics. well, joining us tonight, katie benner, justice reporter for "the new york times" and cynthia alksne, a former prosecutor herself.