previously thought. this is really important evidence on whether it will lead to criminal referrals to the department of justice or the department of justice will take action is unclear. but it is incredibly interesting evidence and one that does prove well to the trump min strigs as they look down to this committee and the special investigation. >> neil, your reaction? have we crossed the threshold based on what we have seen with the statement trump put out talking about his intent or wanting mike pence to overturn the election to use his words, and this new bomb shell reporting? >> i think so. i agree with melissa. i would isolate three things that are extraordinary. first, the idea that donald trump would use the machinery of the government as president to try to seize control of an election is the behavior of thugs. second, the idea that he would enlist rudy giuliani to do it,