house. but clearly the pathway to holding the senate is an easier pathway for democrats than holding the house. in the house, they only have a five-seat margin to lose. that's very narrow. and a lot of -- their charges right now are the number of retirements, the number of resources they have and that gives republicans -- in addition to all of the headwinds that charlie talked about, some advantages in that area. but the senate would be a huge victory. >> what about the issue of turnout? if you just go back to 2014, it was 86 million, that's the number of people that voted in the midterm election. in 2018, it was about 116 million. now we're talking 120 to 130. does that add a layer of uncertainty here in terms of how this could go? >> it does. one thing we could all thank donald trump for is no one says it doesn't matter who wins elections anymore. in '18 and '20, just off the charts turnouts. but that doesn't really tell us