because we always had the 1,340 kilometers of border with russia. and on top of that, russia meddled with our internal politics so in many ways to use the whole term of finlandization which grew from a german professor in the 1960s, is an insult. and my answer to everyone who says should ukraine be finlandized, absolutely not. ukraine should be europeanized. >> so just to be clear, if you were still prime minister of finland, would you be pushing for nato membership for your country right now? >> well, when i left politics after eight years in government in 2016, i took a decision not to give advice to the people who came after me, because the job in and of itself is too difficult. but i have made it no secret throughout my career that i have been an advocate of finnish nato membership. right now what you're seeing in finland is the exact opposite of what putin wants. we're seeing opinion polls moving towards finnish nato