Immunity that means youve probably committed a crime. Probably committed a crime. I mean my god. Today the president s personal lawyer has stopped talking about his involvement in a hush money deal involving porn star Stormy Daniels and donald trump. The president actually, yeah, when he was campaigning, right there, he was saying, the mob takes the fifth, right . He takes the fifth when he needs to take the fifth. Can i ask you something . Have you guys noticed, do you feel it . Willie and i have it . Very few people have it . Whats wrong . The president has it. What . Kanye has it. What are you talking about . Dragon energy. No, stop, gross. Were going to be joined live is that like tiger blood from the Charlie Sheen days. Well be joined live by Stormy Daniels attorney. Stop, im going to blame you. 50 of the time it works. Stormy daniels attorney, Michael Avenatti will be joining us at 8 00 a. M. For his reaction to cohens legal strategy and Mandy Patinkin will be here. So welcome to morning joe. Hold on for a second. Thats pretty exciting. Yes, it is. Its thursday, april 26th. With us to kick things off. We have washington anchor for bbc world news america and coauthor of the New York Times i believe it was number one, the confidence code for girls katty kay. Can i ask willie, other than the guttenberg bible, can you name any other book thats outsold the confidence code. King james, too. Did you pass king james. Joking aside, my daughter reads it every night. Thats what we want to know that girls are reading it. This could change the next generation. Columnist and associate editor for the Washington Post, David Ignatius is with us. And former love book sales. But you have dragon energy. I hope so. Former u. S. Attorney for the Northern District of alabama and msnbc contributor joyce vance is up with us early. I got to figure this out, willie. The kids want to know, so for with quite some time you have stated that rappers like donald trump. We saw it even during the campaign where you had, beyonce was going out there and jayz and he said ive got nothing personal against donald trump. Well everybody else is saying hes going to be the end of the world. Chance, the rapper. Comes out yesterday, saying hey, all black people dont have to be democrats. Like what is that . What is Donald Trumps connection with, why would kanye and chance and jayz he used to be, donald trump used to be one of the singlemost namechecked person. People in all of hip hop music. Because he had a lifestyle that was, people aspired to. Whether it was the cars or the money or your name on everything. And so he was like, before he was president of the United States he was the tv host. He was, he was somebody that they could aspire to or at least aspire to that lifestyle. But i think now the terms have changed a little bit, so thats why you see so much outrage against kanye. Kanye does have an album coming out. Hes a bit of a marketer. We have several legal stories. Surrounding President Trump this morning that were going to get to. Plus questions continue to swirl about trumps cabinet, including new questions about whether dr. Ronny jackson will step down from consideration for va secretary, amid new allegations which are which are weird. Katty kay, either this guy is the most out of control, crazed admiral ever, or this is the biggest political, biggest political hit job that we have seen in recent years. Its interesting, youre hearing reports from Previous Administration staffers actually defending Ronny Jackson, saying no, they werent aware of any of these problems. And yet, the senate now saying Senate Democrats now saying actually we have multiple sources. With allegations about him banging on the door of a female staffers room when he was drunk in the middle of the night during a president ial trip and they have various sources on that. These stories about that he was liberal in his prescribing of pills to people who worked in also the upper, some white house staffers have had as well. I have heard from staffers of Previous Administrations that they did get this drug, the one that keeps you awake a lot, that one was fairly readily available at the white house. Need that. All of us do at 3 00 a. M. This is one of those cases where you have to dig deeper in this investigation. If he crashed a car and he was drunk there ought to be some kind of record. We ought to be able to find that out fairly easily. He said he never has. I would have thought in the next couple of days were going to start seeing whether this story holds water or whether it doesnt. After spending a very handsy day with President Trump, french president Emmanuel Macron speaks to congress. In the address that many saw as a rebuke of trumpism. Thats interesting, well get to all of that. Were going to start this morning with President Trumps longtime personal lawyer, Michael Cohen. Who says he will exercise his fifth amendment rights against selfincrimination in a civil case brought by porn star Stormy Daniels. Daniels is suing cohen for defamation, for suggesting she lied about an affair with the president in 2006. While also suing trump, claiming her nondisclosure agreement arranged by cohen is not valid, because the president never signed it. The white house has repeatedly denied the affair. In cohens decision to remain silent. He cited the ongoing criminal investigation by the fbi and federal prosecutors in new york. Daniels attorney, Michael Avenatti, reacted. This is the personal attorney to the president of the United States, for at least the last ten to 12 years. That same individual that the president pointed you, other members of the media and the American People to, for answers, is now refusing to provide those answers and claiming he cant answer the questions because the answers will incriminate him. This is a big deal. As we mentioned, mr. Avenatti will join us at the top of the 8 00 hour this morning. Its so interesting that a couple of weeks ago when people were comparing Donald Trumps organization to the mob, some Trump Supporters who are very offended by that. And yet, you have donald trump saying of the campaign that only the mob takes the fifth. And here his personal attorney for the past ten, 15 years, is now claiming hes going to take the fifth. I got no problem with people taking the fifth. Its their constitutional right. But donald trump does. And donald trump and Michael Flynn does. And donald trump has long said that if you take the fifth theres something wrong with you and again, the campaign said, only the mob takes the fifth. So joyce vance, what does this decision by Michael Cohen mean for the investigation . Its interesting how we see the different pieces coming together. We have cohen taking the fifth amendment in the civil case with Stormy Daniels. Because of the criminal case in new york. And we dont really know yet what the criminal case is about, only that that search warrant has been executed. But yesterday attorney general Jeff Sessions testifying on the hill said that he didnt have to recuse from the Michael Cohen case. And he was asked if you discover that there are allegations in that case that relate to the campaign, the 2016 campaign, will you recuse . And he said yes. And now im a little bit confused. Because weve been assuming all along that that criminal case was about Campaign Finance violations. That cohen, in paying Stormy Daniels, had somehow violated Campaign Finance law. That seems contrary to what the attorney general said. So well have to watch this develop. Fascinating. The Washington Post reports that another personal lawyer for President Trump, former new york city mayor, Rudy Giuliani, met with special Counsel Robert Mueller on tuesday. Reopening negotiations about a president ial interview. While cautioning that the president remains resistant. Giuliani pressed mueller for clarity on whether the probe is expected to end. According to three people familiar with the talks. In response, mueller reportedly reiterated he would like a chance to ask trump questions about steps he took during the transition in the early months of his administration. Giuliani joined the Trump Legal Team last week, hoping to negotiate an end to the investigation within a couple of weeks. Earlier, discussions of a president ial sitdown with mueller reportedly broke off after the raid of Michael Cohens office. Residents and hotel room. Well get david and joyce in on this. Joyce, let me start with you. Whats the significance of a meeting, a potential meeting between bob mueller and donald trump . Is it something at thismonth that bob mueller needs for his investigation . He really doesnt need it. And its rare, you know that prosecutors will talk to a target of an investigation before they indict. But weve heard at least through sources that come from outside of the Mueller Investigation, that trump is not a target. Hes been told hes only a suspect. And so at some point muellers team will have to decide is he a target, or is he just a witness . If hes a witness he can be easily subpoenaed to the grand jury like anybody else. But if hes not a target simply because they dont want to indict a sitting president , then were in this really unusual wild card situation that weve not seen come up before. But you make a case for obstruction. Not based op your interview with the target so really at the end of the day. This is not a critical sort of a sitdown. Its interesting, too, theres talk, David Ignatius, about Rudy Giuliani using his past, a personal relationship with bob mueller. To perhaps massage mueller, get information out of him. What do you think the role of giuliani is in the big picture . I think hes the big negotiator. The experienced guy, the personal relationship with mueller as you say. Giuliani said a fascinating thing last night to the wall street journal. He said does the special prosecutor, being mueller, really have an open mind . Were going to assess that. What does that mean . What does the proposal that giuliani, as the president s lawyer wants to make to the special prosecutor with an open mind . Is it to close the investigation . Is it to timelimit it . Is it to restrict it to certain associates of trump and the campaign . We have no idea. Its obvious from that quote from giuliani that hes seeking some sort of broad negotiation, to which mueller might well respond. Im a criminal prosecutor. Not my job to have an open mind. Its to complete the case and thats what im going to do. Im going to go where the evidence leads me. Were learning that dr. Ronny jackson, President Trumps nominee for va secretary, is in talks to possibly withdraw from consideration. As new allegations emerge against him. Two sources with knowledge of the conversations tell nbc news that dr. Jackson has grown frustrated with the process. And is in active discussions with senior white house officials about withdrawing his name from consideration for the cabinet post. Nbc news obtained a twopage document compiled by the top democrat on the Veterans Affairs committee. Senator john tester. According to the summary, the white house medical unit had questionable recordkeeping for pharmaceuticals. It was distributing under dr. Jacksons leadership. The summary also notes quote, multiple incidents of drunkenness on duty. Adding that jackson once got drunk at a secret Service Going away party and wrecked a government vehicle. Now in a brief interview with nbc news, jackson denied that specific allegation. Saying quote, i never wrecked a car. And that it should be pretty easy to prove. Dr. Jackson said earlier this week that he looked forward to a confirmation hearing so he can answer lawmakers questions. Despite the new allegations, the white house continues to stand by dr. Jackson. As a white house physician, has been impeccable. In fact because dr. Jackson has worked within arms reach of three president s, hes been vetted by at least three nominees. Hes had four background investigations conducted during his time in the white house, including an fbi investigation conducted as part of the standard nomination vetting process. And katty, republicans may be wavering now, three republican senators said they want the white house to withdraw the nomination. But again im having a little trouble understanding. When we came out the day after and at least i was critical of what dr. Jackson said about donald trump. His mind was wonderful and he weighed 239 pounds super human. Which i personally know is a lie. That he could live to be 200 i was critical of him. I said you couldnt believe much of anything that he said and you immediately had people like David Axelrod and members of the Obama Administration say egg in was a man of High Integrity and they knew him and respected him and trusted him. Hes worked in three administrations. Its hard to believe that an abusive, pillpopping drunk is going to be wandering around president s in three separate administrations, something doesnt add up. Specifically the allegation that he was drunk while on duty. Because that would potentially put the president in jeopardy, right . That means you are risking the president s own health and safety, by having somebody who is not up to the job. And i havent heard these allegations before. There do just seem to be too many of them for us to discount them on the face of it its interesting listening to sarah sanders. She doesnt specifically address each of the allegations. There is no due process here. You look at the list well except that there ought to be due process when it comes to this car wreck. We ought to be able to find the evidence. We ought to be able to have the investigation that does come up with some of the evidence. David ignatius, you look down the laundry list of what the democrats have said about him. It could have been said by one or two people. He was in a competitive situation. I dont know whats going on here. Im certainly not defending the man. There seems to be a lot of smoke there. But can you tell us where the fire is coming from . We dont know yet. Im looking at the document. This is a reminder in a sense why raw fbi reports, raw interview summaries from people shouldnt be made public until theres an attempt to verify that theyre accurate. Because they do a lot of damage. When i step back from the Ronny Jackson affair, what strikes me is the iron whim of the president in deciding hes the right person to head the huge agency in the first place, without much checking, whether they went into the details of his past prescribing behavior or not. I dont know. But it was a strange decision. Immediately seemed so from this doctor, giving him a glowing report. And then the way the president just sort of threw it over to congress and to jackson, you clean this up. You decide. Whatever you want to do. Those are the two things that strike me. Weve seen that kind beef hafr pretty consistently. And i think thats the core of the problem, its a sloppy nomination about an important job. Theres no doubt about it, willie, the man, if you look at his background, even if he was, had a stellar background, hes not qualified to run one of the largest and most complicated bureaucracies in washington, d. C. Thats the point that veterans advocates groups are making publicly and privately when i talk to them. Say whether or not he handed out ambien on crosscountry flights or International Flights is immaterial. The problem is this has nine million enrollees, veterans, who count on this health care system. They need somebody who has experience running a bureaucracy. Somebody who can take the job seriously. It doesnt mean hes not a good doctor. He may very well be. To your point about the obama people, ive been amazed by the sheer number of privately, people who worked in the Obama Administration, messaging me and emailing me and saying this guy, you know, yes, that he gave out some ambien on flights, thats normal. Maybe he had a couple of drinks after hours with people. But they, to a man, say, he was a great doctor, a good man, president obama wrote him four separate commendations, theyre surprised to see this, and theyre suspicious that youre suspicious of, that somebody has some kind of agenda to push him aside. I dont know if its coming out of the pentagon. I dont know where its coming. I dont think the man is qualified. Im not sitting here fighting for him to run the va. This seems over the top. This seems over the top. What this does do is the next time somebody who is qualified to run an agency like this, theyll say wait a second, im going to have a lot of people trash me, saying im drunk, saying im abusive. They could have gone to one or two people that were angry with Ronny Jackson for some reason over the past 30 years who did that. But we will see car accident evidence. We do know, we going to his character. We do know numerous