Yes. And hes also, as of tonight, President Trumps critical lawyer. As we recall at this hour last night the president did not have a criminal lawyer while the special prosecutor is investigating him for possible obstruction of justice. But now enter 69yearold andrew ekonomou. And when the movie is made, this is the part you want. Every lawyer in america turns down the unmanageable client and in brunswick, georgia, population 16,346 we find the smalltown lawyer who comes to the president s rescue. Thats who the president is relying on as of tonight. Its like an insideout georgia version of my cousin vinny. Thats the part you want. You come from georgia to washington to the to slay the dragons. Yes. Cant wait to see that. Thank you, rachel. See you. In an editorial today entitled all the president s thugs, the New York Times said we live in a time when a porn star displays more class than the president. If youre old enough to remember Lyndon Johnson lying about vietnam. Its not knew. Everyone can point to a president they think had less credibility than a porn star. Not to mention the fact we have no widespread agreement on the credibility of a porn star. So the times editorial is wrong to the porn stars. Its assuming that porn stars credibility are low and the president s are higher. We sometimes have credibility on the trustworthiness of various occupations. Gallups last poll had nurses in the number one deserved spot as the most honest occupation. And members of congress were at the bottom of the list. One notch between car sales people. And at the bottom is lobbyists, which is to say former congress members. Porn star was not in the list and president wasnt either. But now for the first time ever, thanks to donald trump, a president and a porn star are in a poll together, and its a poll about credibility. And in the one and only poll in history that balances a porn stars credibility against the president s credibility, the porn star wins big. 63 believe Stormy Daniels is telling the truth. And 21 believe trump, whatever that means because President Trump has not denied anything that Stormy Daniels has said. Now i for one have not used the term porn star to describe Stormy Daniels because the term has a con descending ring to it whenever its used outside of the porn business. Ive used it tonight because ive quoted the New York Times use of it. For the record, Stormy Daniels doesnt seem as sensitive as i am about describing her occupation. She said shes had a long career in front of the camera in porn. John dowd had a long career as a criminal lawyer. Since donald trump was his client he now has less credibility in an occupation that scores low on the gallup poll in honesty in occupations. The New York Times article did not include john dowd. Its about those around donald trump who has used threats and intimidation to silence people about donald trump. But tonight john dowd is on his way of earning his own editorial in the New York Times as one of the president s thugs and possibly something much worse. John dowd has shifted categories from criminal lawyer to possible criminal suspect. The New York Times reports, trumps lawyer raised prospect of pardons for Michael Flynn and Paul Manafort. Thats according to three people with knowledge of the discussions it came as the special prosecutor was raise building cases against both men, and they race questions about whether the lawyer, john dowd, who resigned last week, was offering pardons to influence their decisions. They said it occurred last summer, quote, at a time when the grand jury was hearing evidence against mr. Flynn on a range of crimes. If john dowd was acting as a coconspirator with the president of the United States with the possibility of dangling pardons then he could be charged in an obstruction of justice case along with the president and his conversations with the president about those pardons would not be protected by attorneyclient privilege if those conversations were part of a conspiracy to obstruct justice. The New York Times said mr. Dowd has said privately that he did not know why mr. Flynn had accepted a plea. According to one of the people. He said he told mr. Kelner, that the president had long believed that the case was flimsy and was prepared to pardon him. The discussion with mr. Manaf t mr. Manaforts lawyer came before the indictment. John dowd denies discussions. There were no diskugs, period, mr. Dowd said. As far as i know no discussions. The New York Times confirms that the president discussed pardons with staff. In one meeting with lawyers from the white house last year, mr. Trump asked about the extent of his pardon power, according to a person briefed on the conversation. The lawyers explained that the president s pours were broad. In december, the president was asked about pardoning Michael Flynn. About Michael Flynn, would you consider a pardon for Michael Flynn . I dont want to talk about pardons for Michael Flynn yet. Well see what happens. Joining us now, harry lit man, a professor at the university of california. Jill winebanks, and john hileman. Jill winebanks, i want to go to you first on this issue of what was john dowd up to . The New York Times reporting on the face of it, indicates a possible obstruction of justice case involving john dowd possibly. It absolutely does. Now we have to keep in mind that he denies that it happened. They had multiple sources that they that it did. And if he was offering a pardon in exchange for influencing the testimony, thats clearly a part of obstruction. Its exactly what happened during watergate when they talked about pardons. When they offered hush money to keep quiet. Now we have hush money paid to porn stars, as you just designated them. So it could be that he is in very deep trouble right now, john dowd. Harry litman, give me your reading legally where john dowd stands and what this means to the case. I agree with jill. Hes in the soup and i think he can be questioned by mueller. I think the crimefraud exception means that it wouldnt be privileged. And i think if not the first, either the second or third question will be jills favorite, what did the president know and when did he know it . Because the question is is there conspiracy here to obstruct. And it wouldnt simply be its not even a pardon for quiet. Here its the sort of secret backroom deal as the potential issue, where the president , through dowd, is saying keep quiet, do exactly what manafort has done through these months and there will be a pardon at the end of the day. So tl thats more sinister and corrupt. Because it means theres no political check, no way of bringing it up for impeachment. Its a backroom wink and nod. John dowd was reported to have quit the Trump Defense team. I said at the time, we have no idea. We dont know if he was fired, we dont know whether he quit. Thats just the story. The story put out. Yep. It may now be that john dowd was forced to leave the defense team because of this reporting that john dowd may well have known was coming out in the New York Times because we know the times doesnt work on these stories in a matter of hours. They take days, sometimes weeks to confirm this material. This is a story that has deep reporting in it, and its a story that would have to be lawyered intensely, youd need white house reaction from, john dowds reaction from. Its also a long story by the New York Times by newspaper standards as a story that has been in the works for a while. So not only would john dowd know it was coming but the people in the president s political and legal orbit would have known. So the looming story could have called in pressure points as to whether or not he quit. I do want to make one legal point, although im not a lawyer like our two other guests, this was the guy, along with ty cobb, that was supposed to provide the respectabili respectability. And you think about the time he spent between the lunchtime conversation in front of the New York Times reporter, the tweet he claimed he had written when donald trump it seemed got in trouble on twitter. This is a debackable for john dowd and if this reporting in the New York Times is true, it is a fitting end, a fitting crown, to his various deparadesignations in his time. And is there anyone who doesnt believe this is true . The question of who offers the pardon, how the pardon gets offered, the form of the pardons, but the notion donald trump is offering pardons to people that might flip on him, is an important piece of new to break but one of the least shocking ive heard all day. Harry litman, i want to go back to you. I said earlier that john dowd may have shifted cat categories, from criminal defense lawyer to suspect. Whats the sense when a lawyer gets the sense that he or she is moving into suspect territory representing the client. Look at Michael Cohen, the music stops, you get your own lawyer and go from there. Were he moving, as he were last summer, into territory he was going to be a party to a fraud, his clear obligation would have been to withdraw then and there. Now hes a suspect and hell just be a normal suspect. Hes got to lawyerup and hope that he can somehow soldier through. I agree with what john said, but dowds a respectable person and that hes come out of the box with such a clear i never said it, never did it, there may be more to the story. But hes now changed categories and is in the sights of the Mueller Probe. Jill, just to under line this, it seems to me possible that this New York Times story had something to do with john dowd withdrawing from the case or being fired from the case while this story was being developed by the New York Times. It absolutely could. Of course, we will not know for quite a while. But hes had a rough go of it, because in addition to the tweet, which i think was very, very inappropriate for him to have said he did it, if he did it it was wrong. And its a disbarable offense to have gotten your client into trouble for a tweet that said something that could implicate that person, your own client, in an obstruction. He also had a very inappropriate conversation, in a public place, with ty cobb, that was very gave away too much and shouldnt have happened in public. So i think theres a number of things that could get n him in trouble, both with the bar and with the prosecutor. John hileman, enter andrew ekonomou, who i was talking to rachel about. This was a 69yearold lawyer, who was a federal prosecutor in atlanta in the 80s. Took time off from the practice of law. Now describes himself as a substitute teacher style assistant district attorney, in brunswick, georgia, small down on the coast. And this is, as of tonight according to the trump legal team, the guy in charge of the criminal defense. He does have experience with criminal cases, but nothing on this scale. As i said to rachel, when the movie gets made, this is the part you want to play. The guy who comes from small down to d. C. To take on the special prosecutor. We ask this question over and over again, why does donald trump have to turn to a fellow like this . Why does he have trouble hiring lawyers . We have an answer tonight. John dowd is a good example. Look at anyone in the washington legals firms, look at john dowd now, where he sits, thats why you have to turn to a guy like this. Lets not diss him, he could have i know youre not. He could have had a reputable career, done important work, local Law Enforcement matters he probably prosecuted cases and put people behind bars that need to be behind bars so give him his due. But lets say at best he is maybe a good single a short stop whos being asked to pitch in the world series, which is not generally what you want to do in the world series. Hes someone what we know on the basis of his resume and record is not suited to the job hes being compelled to take on. Its nothing. It almost more drama tiezs Donald Trumps difficulty hiring a legal team is more dramatic with this guy. Now you have me rooting for him. You have an underdog, it reminds me what was said about watergate, the Night Law School guys in the house of representatives knocked over all those Harvard Law School skies that Richard Nixon had representing him. Well come back with more on andrew ekonomou, im sure. Thank you all. Coming up, Stormy Daniels wants two more hours with donald trump, but this time under oath. The special prosecutor may have identified for the first time publically a direct line of communications between the Trump Campaign and russia, and that line has a russian name. Last years ad campaign was a success for choicehotels. Com badda book. Badda boom. This year, were taking it up a notch. So in this commercial we see two travelers at a comfort inn with a glow around them, so people watching will be like, wow, maybe ill glow too if i book direct at choicehotels. Com. Who glows . Just say, badda book. Badda boom. Nobody glows. He gets it. Always the lowest price, guaranteed. Book now at choicehotels. Com first time special prosecutor Robert Mueller has specified a connection between russia and the trump president ial campaign. The connection was described in a court filing yesterday relating to the upcoming sentencing of Alex Vander Swan. Who has pleaded guilty to lying. And the person identified in the court filing as person a. Person a appears to be konstantin calinik. The document outlines what the prosecution calls aggravating circumstances that it wants the judge to consider during vander swans sentencing. The lies and with holding of documents were material to the special counsels offices investigation that gates and person a were directly communicating in september and october 2016 was pertinent to the investigation. Federal bureau of investigation special agents assisting the special counsels office assess that person a has ties to a Russian Intelligence Service and had such ties in 2016. We already knew that konstantin calinik attended a military foreign lang program that has been used by russian intelligence agents. What is knew in the filing is the information that he still has tied to the Russian Intelligence Service and had such ties during the president ial campaign in 2016. Joining us now Betsy Woodruff a politics reporter and judd sugarman. Betsy, this precise connection isnt something weve seen from the special prosecutor. Thats right. And what else is fascinating is its mueller saying what he and his team thinks is important. Part of the filing is it has to do with the sentencing of Alex Vander Swan, the attorney that viewers saw on screen a few minutes ago. Theyre arguing a case why the judge should take he guilty plea so important. Its because he lied about person a. And mueller says that person a is an important person. The fact that he talked fo a senior Trump Campaign official, rick gates, the month before the election is material. Its mueller showing his hand, its mueller telling us what he thinks is important. Its almost to the point of why he thinks its important. Judd, konstantin has denied any ties with russian intelligence. In the pleadings it said he does have the ties. He said he did speak to the 2016 campaign every couple months. Yes. A couple things that are important here. The first is that kilimnik, the first part that he was part of russian intelligence is important. But were also getting to the frame of mind of russian government, Alex Vander Swan and Paul Manafort. It says that vander swan thought kilimnik was part of russian intelligence because gates told him so. You wouldnt see this in muellers report for mueller didnt have the goods on this. We know in the past Alex Vander Swan recorded the conversations. He had a conversation with kilimnik and gates in 2016. One can speculate mueller may have a copy of the recording and that puts more pressure on gates. And i think the other big thing is now being able to flip other people with this kind of evidence that we imagine mueller has, this is how he flips up from gates and monfort to others. Last february manafort said, i have never knowingly spoken to russian Intelligence Officers and i have never been involved with anything to do with the russian government or the Putin Administration or any other issues under investigation today. Turns out, according to the fbi he was employing one in his business in the ukraine. Its strange to think that rick gates would have known something about one of the employees that Paul Manafort didnt know. We dont know for sure to be clear. One of the pieces of information is that kilimnik had disputed the fact that he had connections with russian intelligence. So theres a good chance he will disagree with the assessment. That is something that will probably be argued in court and it will be fascinating to see what evidence mueller may or may not have that he made this assertion in the filing that one of Paul Manaforts trusted employees was connected to russian intelligence. And the s