Transcripts For RT CrossTalk 20221123 : vimarsana.com

hello and welcome to cross stock where all things are considered. i m peter lavelle with its infrastructure being degraded in the weather, turning into winter ukraine cases, the stark prospect of becoming a failed state. no amount of western arms can change that harsh reality. why she didn t care have demonstrated they have no real interest in negotiations. ukraine s faith has been sealed. ah, cross talking the conflict in ukraine, i m joined by my guess ill, geraldine percival, he s a former cia counter terrorism specialist in bangkok we have bryan for that take. he is a jew political analyst and a former us marine. and in dublin we cause to shay bows. he is an independent commentator and writer, or a gentleman, cross type rules and effect. that means you can jump in any time you want. and i would appreciate, let s go to 1st to philip philip mode of alabama. at least at this moment that the website they lead article has no way to peace without further war. i think got some set up really well, considering we ve had all of this ridiculous hot air coming out of washington, brussels, and care about what a negotiated end would be. they re not interested in. it isn t, in fact they want to keep this war going on as long as possible, which will feel ukraine fate. go ahead philip. yeah, well, i think that s an accurate analysis that you just given the. the fact is that the, the people in washington are really matter. the ones who are making decisions on all sort of thing have repeatedly said that they re washing their hands of negotiations because it s up to kiev, which of course, it s not. and they have also indicated very clearly that the united states objective in what it s doing in, in ukraine and in the neighboring regions is intended to weaken russia. that s the objective of all this. so it s kind of a fantasy. 1 approach to say that what that is occurring is all about democracy promotion or protecting the rights of smaller countries. this is, this is all nonsense. okay. essentially the same question for brian in bangkok here, because with this determination to keep the war going on, i think it s ukraine, that s going to be completely utterly destroyed in the process, which is really quite interesting is what leader of a country would willingly get on for that kind of campaign because zalinski saying, you know, has its demands. who wants public negotiations and all this, which they know the russian side will never accept. and why would they ukraine never kept its its word when it came to the minsk agreements, france didn t do a germany, didn t do it. so i mean, what s the whole point of all this ridiculous talk of negotiations when it s not in good faith? go ahead. brian. in bangkok, this was the whole purpose of getting a klein regime and to power in 2014, in the 1st place. to put a group, a circle of interest into power in kiosk that would irrationally lead the country down the path toward proxy, more and ultimate destruction at the hands of russia, but also at the hands of their western sponsors were slowly and shortly feeding them into this this grinder essentially unfortunately. ok, well is go to dublin shay essentially the same question to you because i mean, as, as we re sitting down right now, the u. s. is having to have to restock it. stock piles, wanting, needing to buy ammunition from south korea and all the while the media is saying that russia is on its last gas. you know, the morale is low. there s though, i mean, it s actually everything is completely upside down. ok been and what we re looking at now and then we they talk about, you know, being able to retake territory. ok. we taking the territory the size of delaware. oh my goodness. ok. is that that s going to change anything, the calculus here that should be put into play. it s not what moscow is going to control. it s what give is going to control. and with its infrastructure being degraded, it s not going to be very much go ahead in dublin. yeah, of course as brian will, you know, sort of also back me up. i mean, this also feeds into the narrative about these a huge weapons packages. and, you know, brian speaks very, you know, conclusively about the value of the quality of what s actually being shipped now into ukraine. the weather s running dry. it seems to all objective observers, you know, you see, you know, huge convoys of destroyed us, british and the other nato countries, supply equipment. but this is the bed of pure campaign. essentially. it s about, you know, making big announcements about large weapons packages. it s about, you know, feeding that narrative too, and increasingly skeptical west in population who are starting to see big social problems with that, the huge wave of ukrainian refugees that have arrived into europe. they re also starting to see the impact of huge energy prices and costs as well. it s getting cold. now, the front lines are beginning to freeze as well in ukraine and defenders advantage, which was in ukraine s favor. now, militarily, as, as russia, you know, at retreats into more prepared for positions that advantage is with russia now. and as they, they build this huge and mobilized army. and, you know, i think the idea that russia is beaten is a convenient propaganda ploy. there s no bearing in reality and i m sure brian would would elaborate on that. okay, well, well phil appear, as i said in my introduction, no amount of arms is going to change the calculus on the ground. i mean, i m one of the, probably the last person, the world that would quote joseph burrell, but it will be settled on the battlefield. and there s really nothing outside of a direct nato intervention, which they would lose if they did. i mean, they re using ukraine as a proxy. now the ukranian army was destroyed in the summer. now they re fighting nato ok with ukrainian soldiers and others soldiers wearing ukrainian uniforms there. but there is no reckoning that this strategy is working whatsoever. again, i want to stress the infrastructure of the country is being degraded in the middle of winter. how can this continue on philip? well, i mean, if i were seriously involved in making decisions, i would say no, it can go on. and i would point out the sensually that i think even the, even the parties involved clearly understand if this is ultimately only going to be several through negotiations that recognize the actual russian interest. this is always been the stumbling blocks in the beginning that the united states and its allies basically didn t want to accept that russia had actual national security interests that were of existential for the country. and they walked away from those sort of actually they re going to have to walk back to it. ok. everybody, everything that phillip just said, write it on a posted and put it in your wallet because that s the best summation that we have had thus far. in this conflict there, brian, you re not in your head. why go ahead? but why i agree. i agree with both of your all the gaps. now looking at these packages, looking at how the west is trying to sell, the wave is conflict is unfolding. and then just scratching a little bit under the surface, the u. k. claiming since june, they ve trained 7000 ukrainian soldiers. when you look at the details, they re taking a 6 month course and condensing it in 5 weeks. and this is what they re introducing raw recruits to this is essentially sending them to death and the fee on the battlefield. and this is the same pattern that goes across everything the us and its allies are doing. and in regards to this proxy more so it s just going to be a matter of how long they can stretch out this narrative until it crashes head on into reality. well i think brian, you re right, if i go to shane and dublin and because then domestic politics comes into play, when there is no breakthrough in the, in the, on the battlefield. but your electricity bill, your fuel bill, your food bill continues to climb and, and your, your, your public leaders not reacting to that. ok. i mean the, the, the, what the, the german foreign minister is, you know, you, i don t care when my voters say ok, that s, that s going to come and haunt the entire european union and eventually the united states. because a whole while the whole globe itself is suffering because of the arrogance of these decision makers go ahead in dublin. yeah, i think it also brings into focus how quickly russian economic parrot importance to the global economy was, was dispelled. it was a, a gas station, but missiles, but again, as, as things don t pan out in ukraine, as we were all told they would, that russia is running out of missiles that they re deploying new and very complex systems which are better than a lot of western ones. as well, which the western media like to discuss as we begin to shift in, in, in, in the u and in the states with people like biden, sort of their slapping down zalinski and the argument over the polish missile. whereas lance, he is absolutely, you know, you know, he s determined to say that this is a, still a russian missile, despite the fact that even the most aggressive nato protagonist are saying it wasn t, you know, you re starting to see the cracks appear. and you know, america has form here, as brian said, you know, they ve set up a proxy regime america has form and throwing those regimes under the bush. as the narrative changes. it fight its wars, it along the lines of its domestic political calendar, the united states, and they ve done the same at vietnam, iraq, afghanistan. so you should be really looking now i d say, for shifts in the narrative and even, you know, dedicated sort of hawkish f u. s. and newspapers have been talking recently about, you know, the fact that the ukraine military, for example, have been very considerably definitely committing war crimes. and that would have been unheard of at the start of this conflict. so the shift is coming. it s coming in winter and the populations which elect the governments which constitute the, you know, the european union and the united states are starting to really grow weary of this conflict. and there s plenty of problems at home and they need to be dealt with. and you know, people are fickle and i think it s beginning shift, you know, fell of every, every once in or every once in a while. western media like near the, the official oregon of the state, new york times, you know, the, they talk about biden s zalinski problem because in it s becoming quite evident. we had a concrete, he s constantly grubbing for money. and then this whole missile incident here, i mean, when is it going to turn into a liability provide, nor is he just not well aware enough even to know it s a liability. go ahead philip. well, you know, to me, to sort of watching those from the outside to a certain extent. this seems to me to be the most coordinated and effective propaganda operation having run by the us government and coordination with the mainstream media. the public doesn t know all the stuff the public doesn t know hardly any of this. how many people are people who are ordinary voters, don t read the new york times anyway. but wherever they turn, they re going to be saturated by the same arguments about why the united states is helping this poor little country ukraine was attacked by russia. and this argument is repeated over and over and over again. the united states is kind of basically being perceived by most of the rest of the world as the school bully, a country that is basically driving its own interest. right now, i have to go to a hard break, and after that hard break, we ll continue our discussion on the conflict in ukraine. stay with our team. the the use ah, lisa canter, russian state total narrative. i ve stayed on the north lansky with eclipse in 55 when. okay, so 9 is 25 i m speaking with. we will van in the european union, the kremlin media machine, the state aunt rush up to date and school ortiz spoke mckibben, our video agency, roughly all band on youtube with mm ah, ah, the welcome back across stock were all things are considered. i m peter about to remind you, we re discussing the conflict and ukraine. mm. mm. okay, go back to philadelphia, right before we the, we had to go to the break and i had to jump in there. you said, you said that there s a perception that, that the united states is a bully here. i mean, it, why would that be so hard after the destruction of the north stream pipelines? ok because it s been like 8 weeks and nobody seems to be curious about what happened there. and of course it s to the us as advantage anthony blinking admitted as much. i think it is an extraordinary opportunity or something like that. and it in and it was obviously a frontal attack against germany, making any kind of move to, to make some kind of overture towards moscow to, to finally put this thing to an end. but no, that s been taken off the table. so, i mean, there is no way back from that. i mean, i find it truly incredible philip, that the u. s. western allies actually trust washington right now after that. well, i think the, the allies, if you re talking about the leadership of those countries that s a given except that they don t really trust washington and the, and increasingly in europe, the people are rising up and protesting about this. one of the astonishing things is that the climbs down on alternative views here in the united states is really quite limited. there is no big piece moment surfacing and apart from the occasional critics coming from the right like tucker carlson, there s, there are no effect the voices out there getting a, a substantial audience to tell them what the, what the story is. you know, bryan, you know, i, i, i tend to never agree with the stuff in the head of nato. but he says that if, if native ukraine loses to russia, nato loses, and it would be a loss for nato, which of course, is something i would like very much. what. how does nato get through this, or does it i don t think that it does. i agree, i agree, or just as your previous guess was saying, i mean, this is all about crafting these narratives. are controlling narratives is not the same as controlling events in actual reality. and i think that s what we re watching. we re witnessing these narratives that are being going along so smoothly for so long are finally again running into reality and it s not going to survive. it s a we re, we re watching all of this deconstruct as this conflict drives on. we re going to see all of these narratives in challenged and should deconstruct it and it s happening. it s happening day by day i, i think zalinski was a liability from day one, but it was just their ability to present him. it s otherwise that convince people that he wasn t but i, i think he was all along. well yeah. issue i, brian s absolutely right. i mean he was cast it because he was so photo genic. he was affable, not very smart. and then he went to his head. i mean, he actually believes the propaganda that is generated about him and it gives us another example of how bad narratives create bad outcomes. shay and dublin. yeah, i think brian s got a great point. i mean, zalinski is a perfect mark for the cia and for the, the american war state and to target and manipulate to present this honest, you know, a rags to riches figure. but of course, as an ascii has no political pedigree and would be relatively naive, that you know, he s a, he s a, a young man and who has been swept along on this tie to propaganda his own propaganda as well. and to go back to the previous a guests and analysis of how the the, the state has been of ukraine has been sort of undermined. i mean, it goes back a long way. i mean, in 1949, that the u. s. deployed agents in the ukraine, so this is the new operation red sox, which was please say your strike under undermine the ukrainian s s or at the time. so the ga has a 70 plus year history and ukraine of trying to manipulate and undermine and exacerbate the act, no nationalist realities of, of ukraine. so to portray this, as brian said as a and b o, this is vladimir putin waking up in the 24th of february, sticking a pin and a map and rolling across the border in pale expansion is, is utterly delusional. and i think it is beginning to see but into the narrative in europe here, where people like us are being listened to unless attacked for of use of people are being forced to listen as the lensky really shows. and that he isn t interested in independent and non aligned assessment of his allegations. he digs his heels in, there s one truth. and if you don t follow the truth, you re essentially allied with a monstrous russian war machine, which is utterly ludicrous. you know, fell up though the russia warned months in advance of the start of the special mil and military operation, particularly december 17th. thank. i m a broken record here cuz i always mention it to people an ultimatum, essentially, to nato and to washington. it was completely ignored. as we expected here, and because rushing the deems the situation, but prior to uh, february 24th is existential to russia. now obviously, any common sense would dictate that that doesn t apply to the united states or to europe. ukraine is an existential to their existence. but washington has made it existential. and that s where the problem is, because if it is existential, then you can t negotiate. and if you don t negotiate, you re going to have to die on that hill called ukraine. and i worry that people like sullivan and victoria new and all these other ones go lindsey graham, you know, going to the senator they, they, they will not, they will not term accept defeat. yeah, i think i think judge and alex is correct. i mean, essentially the, the, the, the fundamental problem is that this war should never occur. it was preventable. going back a year ago. it was preventable even before that, because if you go, if you go back and look at some of the speeches and, and statements coming out of the foreign ministry in moscow. and they made a lot of sense. it was very clear that russia had certain distinct, national security interests that were parma. and yet everybody was closing their ears to this. they were closing her eyes to these. and instead of listening to what they were saying, they basically just chose the other router which they did the fame, these people to call them fashion, to call them la totalitarian, to call them every name in the book. so you don t really have to address the issues or racing, but this war should never occurred. you know, brian was an important issue that has to be addressed here that no one in the western media will do is that because it is existential from the point of moscow. the settlement, whatever it will be, will be a settlement under russia s terms cuz they re not going to want to do this in 5 years or 10 years, or 15 years from now. ok, he will have to be definitive for pan european security. that means russia has a say absolutely ends up something else. the western media never talks about is how nato, throughout its entire existence, and especially after the end of the cold war, it exists solely to encircle and contain russia. and we hear people at the atlantic council, people who end up in the us government positions of power talking about how the end goal is to eventually absorb russia itself into this. you re a poll and free project of theirs, which is really just europe, whole under us subjugation and free for the us to do what it wants with it. this is, this is their vision of the future. russia has the right under international law to reject this, this subordination to a foreign power on the other side of the atlantic. you know, show that the, the biden administration likes to betray this is a talk recei versus democracy. but it s the global south or the global majority, as i like to say. they re the ones that are there is exerting their self determination. ok, and that s democratic. ok. this whole campaign, the western campaign against russia is very and democratic and it s very authoritarian, as we ve all spoken about how freely you can speak about this and in the west. go ahead j. yeah, i mean this is neo liberal. had gemini and mia, grey scholars like mercia mer, cohen and chomsky have discussed this. and the fact that they discussed it means that they know that this in the state department, they know about it in the white house, but they plow had anyway. they, i mean, you, we barely time to, you know, have a, have a lie down after the, you know, how to catastrophic withdrawal from afghanistan. and the us have decided, well, let s go to ukraine and as blind as mentioned before. did the scaffold that this war is burning on? has been built, created propagated by the cia why people like victoria newland who back in 2014, were instrumental in the agitation that led to the might on which of course any objective observer will tell you was the overturning of a democratically elected president and imperfect president nonetheless, which still democratically elected. so you ve got the forces of democracy going in . am i agitating with known as nazis and people like all like johnny brook, you ve got people, john mccain who never saw war. he didn t want to be part of, by the way, on the stage while at the democratic elected president was in power. i mean, the absolutely brazen nature of the ca backed and you know, operation and you train was incredible. i mean, but yet we re told that they are the guys backing democracy. they overturned a democracy in ukraine and built a de facto nato army of over a quarter of a 1000000 man training 10000 men a year in the leading up to this crisis. and they tell us that this is a peaceful army staring across russia s border in a territory which is populated by millions of ethnic russians. and we re still told that, you know, we re the good guys. the state is still telling us the fall. i mean, we talking about good guy, philip, are rapidly running out of time. you know, i m like yourself, i am a conservative. i don t identify with the republican party because they re full of fools. but this is an opportunity. this is a real oper. did this is biden s war. it s a fiasco. it s a, it s a, it s a boon. goggle, but the republicans don t have any courage, philip. well, that s certainly one way to describe the republican party. there are outspoken republicans, but you can count them on one hand, fingers of one hand, just the same as in the democratic party where there are a few progressives that are courageous enough to stand up once in a while. the problem is that the whole system of the united states is, is geared towards the political system geared towards consensus on these kinds of issues. yeah. there s no debate that goes on. there s never been a debate, for example, in congress about the crane policy. i mean, it s unbelievable. and, and, and these, these dollars not dollops, these huge consignments on money. i mean the latest one was what 37 did you have that that the president signed off on. this was just before, as soon as he decided he was going to bring nato in because of the bombing in poland. so, you know, we, here, we have this madman, in essence with a lot con on us policy in his country. and also a, a flow of money if you have been national event in our discussion on a very depressing. nope. but it could not be otherwise. that s all the time we have gentlemen many thanks. and they get some personal dublin and in bangkok and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at rtp next time. and remember process growth. the me, i only 41 percent of usaa don t have enough savings to cover a $1000.00 emergency. we have record numbers of americans who are on the verge of having their cars repossess more than a 137000000 americans are facing financial hardship because of medical debt. in america. we do have a well 1st system in place to help people who are struggling financially, but it s a conditional system. you have to prove to the government that you truly need help . the simplest way, like explain a basic income, is that it s like social security for the rest of us. a basic income would be a monthly payments that would go to everyone. just a $1000.00 a month, no strings attached his i have out. i would like them names. i don t know how i just won t go crazy. the reason that i am a fan of guaranteed income because it is this idea that everybody is deserve it. and just by virtue of your being here, a sensitive water is thrown in the old order. but when the snow falls apart, when this comes with it, i feel as we flung from dosher hours from noon to lower the do it in b. c. dish in you could give to way in the pals, teacher skills on it. on the broad aisha goal was to limit him by midday up against him because a little bulk of the crucial chest middle school. all sweetness with the moon is not good. p t d, still not off with the leukemia. well they used to live up. she s with us, but no gross issue. he missed, they need to the middle, set them off and you can give us history of the did you do it is a battle certainly don t see this material but enough to even in the supply unit, should update those. let me just to look now, it doesn t help with me. she go. she returned with up to renew my square area to handle most of his emotional specialties with lisa. there s openings and you took a little of doing piecemeal. mm. ah, headlines right now here in ocoee, international power blackouts are reported all across you crate. that s air alarms accounting throughout the country. we understand water has been cut in kiev and several other cities. a live report is coming up the european parliament, bronze, russia, a state sponsor of terrorism, and a non binding resolution, openly supporting russian and the government protested with teenage boys killed and at least 18 more people wounded and twin box top explosions in jerusalem. local police. brad and get a terror attack.