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Jack smith's team being able or hoping they're able to prove at trial that trump knew he was lying is clearly central to his investigation here to the case he's building against trump and we expect trump and his lawyers to push back extremely hard on that, on that core element of this indictment. >> that's fascinating. and, glen, just wondering, i mean, how difficult or what are the things that one has to have in order to prove that and in the case of the sentence that was repeated as betsy says twice, the defendant knew they were false. in other words, that aspect is very touchy, right? you h...

This country are instructed by judges every day. ladies and gentlemen, there is no way to look into the mind of another human being and discern what their intent is. that's why you're allowed to infer corrupt intent from the statements the defendant made, the actions he undertook and the other circumstantial evidence. i maintain that once they're in court and the rules of evidence are being applied, the rules of evidence provide that prosecutors can introduce incriminating statements of the defendant, but the defense attorneys cannot introduce exculpatory statements of the defendant unless the...

For this reason. what the president saw in the 2020 election was all these irregularities going on. he had every right to comment on that, and act politically. in a criminal case, what they would have to show is all that speech is not entitled to first amendment protection. he'll never be able to do it. >> tim what is your reaction to that? >> you know, he's kind of hitting the point that all of these counts do require corrupt intent. they require him to know that these claims of fraud were false and be pushing them anyway. the first amendment aspect of it is not something that i really see as...

>> and i to the average person, think it looks questionable. if you stay loyal, you get a great attorney. it's all paid for. and if you are not, you likely will not keep that representation. again, it's all legal, and it's also a way to get information. all right. i need to move on to january 6th. what are you expecting? we know the former president has received a target letter, obviously passed on his opportunity to go before the grand jury. his lawyers met with the special counsel this past week. what are you expecting? >> i don't know what they discussed. i do know that i represent former c...

Investigating people that told trump and what trump said about just how secure elections were. so before the election trump believed this. during the election -- smith is interviewing contemporary -- getting contemporary evidence about what trump said to people in the oval office in those meetings. and then after the election going up to january 6th. all of this is part of a piece to show the criminal intent here, the corrupt intent is solid. and i suspect jack smith believes it is. >> laura, i'm so glad you brought up his podcast because you have this interesting podcast where you sit down wi...