check out this footage mountain pass outside of teton pass outside of jackson, wyoming. the road has completely collapsed what is interesting about this is this is the road that connects jackson hole, the playground of billionaires with eastern idaho the only place you can afford to live out there. looks like this summer bunch of them billionaires are going to have to learn how to do their own yardwork. will this survive? hard to say it. [laughter] tough work. before we go do not forget to follow the big weekend show on x, on facebook, on instagram at the big weekend show but that doesn t for us but thank you for joining us we see it next weekend. life, liberty & levin starts right now. . mark: hello america i am mark levin and this is life, liberty & levin sunday. powerful gas for your we have america s governor, florida governor desantis. of america s a wiseman victor davis hanson will be joining us shortly. i ve always said you re the smartest of all audiences, why? we get into things others are not going to get into and other networks and self. i do not do the fan dancing and everything else to grab your attention. substance, intelligence, that is what i do here. we are going to need that today, right now. going to explain something to you. not enough attention is given to what happened manhattan case. the options for donald trump and the american people s in that case s decision i m very frustrated with lawyers who come on tv will heard or read articles that basically says donald trump is stuck in that new york judicial gulags. he is not paid in very troubled by it lawyers who do not do their research. who do not look at the precedent that is in front of us. for the opportunities for president trump and his lawyers to try to get out of what is the new york judicial gulags. there are certain rents we ve talked about before the supreme court can issue but it has to be asked. if it is not asked us not going to do a thing. it does not have original jurisdiction we do not have a court system like they have in israel and other places that can see something in separate going get involved in that, that s not the way it works and we do not want it to work that way we do not want a super legislature for the court system in this country is bad enough quite frankly. so what do we do? what to walk through this slowly so even the lawyers on msnbc and cnn can understand although i don t think they care but we do. the american people. you have in this case, apart from all the local issues and all of the rest issues involving federal election law. issues involving presidential election the highest of federal official in the nation being chosen. you have federal constitutional issues, first amendment, free speech the gag order yes but even more than that the idea a nondisclosure agreement violates campaign laws is not only falls on the law but that would violate the first amendment. the fifth amendment, due process and equal protection rights also conveyed on the states by the 14th amendment as they were ratified that amendment after the civil war the sixth amendment you have a right to counsel the cancel cannot be competent when they re endlessly being interrupted, sabotage cannot call proper witnesses, do not have notice of what laws are involved and so forth and so on. then you have facts. facts that suggest the timing of the case after the federal authorities rejected it, and local authorities rejected at this case was brought for the purpose of interfering in eight itfederal election. a federal campaign. in usurping federal authority. it was timed in order to create a very convoluted, slow appellate process within the state. so major issues could not be resolved because the proper length of the appellate court before the election. so this is an ongoing violation. now the question is whether donald trump will have to wear an ankle brace for that they ll have to get permission from a probation officer every time he travels to a state. whether his sentencings will be stayed in on and on and on. we are all waiting around for politically democrat judges to make decisions that belong in the federal government. this is fundamental. it is not just one instance these are multiple federal constitution and legal issues. they cannot be resolved by the state of new york. must be resolved at the federal level. must be resolved at the federal level the issues are compelling, they are overwhelming for this election in future elections for this republic how we elect presidents and for our electoral system. there has ever been a case that the supreme court should take up and argue would take up it is this case. it checks off all of the unconstitutional and unlawful activities that would trigger supreme court intervention. now i cannot predict that in advance the basic pushback i get from some of the lawyers who do not understand what they are saying is the court is not going to take it up. how do they know? the court took up bush versus gore. bush and cheney campaign or not waiting around for a final decision by the florida supreme court. said while i supreme court will not take up the case, they took that case to the supreme court but they were not even sure how to characterize their case as an emergency appeal the court accepted as written it does not matter. on december 84 3 decision florida supreme court ordered immediate manual recounts up over votes for the office of president and all county were such recounts had not already taken place they were changing state election law. there were chair picking counties out help gore and the bush campaign petition the u.s. supreme court fo first day of te recount order which was granted on december 9 treating the petition as it former request for review. the court agreed to take up the case bush versus gore. the florida supreme court was out of control for their interfering with the eventual electoral count in florida brother trying to deliver the race to gore. the justices, among other things, their flesh and blood. they are human beings for the shower like we did with the eat like we did they do other things like we do and they see what is taking place they saw this court was out of control changing election loss to advantage outdoor the supreme court knew it. oral argument december 11 bush s legal team asserted the florida supreme court exceeded its authority by ordering the manual recount under votes on gore s team contend the case having already been decided at the state level was not a matter for consideration at the federal level. in a ruling issued the following day the court found seven two due to inconsistencies and minute recounting methods the status of jim florida counting florida court order of a mental recount a mandatory violation of equal protection clause in the 14th amendment. by a smaller majority five for the court also ruled note new recount could take place because none can be finished by the safe harbor deadline the date set by federal law by which states were required to resolve any disputes regarding the selection of presidential electors in order to guarantee their final determination quote shall be conclusive and shall govern in the counting of electoral votes is provided in the constitution unquote the extent to which the court went. the stop the florida court was doing to stop that recount in the middle of the recount. to say that is unknown if your deadline has been met that is the end of it. in florida. it is far more extraordinary, far more extraordinary than anything donald trump and his lawyers to be asking the supreme court to do, why? these are federal law, federal constitutional violations. federal jurisdictional violations. by an acting state judge and a prosecutor, by two people. and it is ongoing. sentencing and other issues have to be decided by the local judge. and then the appellate level on the level after that but this is an ongoing violation. it does not matter w what the final court has to say. again if i m donald trump s lawyers i go through that process. but you go to the supreme court of the united states now how do we get to the supreme court of the united states? this is where people get bogged down. the arthe art writs and common . and it really does not matter which you follow here is a piece by former attorney general griffin bell would later become attorney general under jimmy carter. the southern methodist university l law school law revw the fellow appellate courts and it discusses what common law are a discusses it in the context of a specific statute that was passed as part of the original judiciary act in 1789. about to get in the weeds, we are smart and can follow this. the preemptory common law writs are among the most potent weapons and the judicial arsenal. common law writs are used, they are rare use more and more than the federal chain of courts. so, what does he say here? the basis for general judicial supervision over inferior courts if you are a federal court your extraordinary preemptory writs can be found and early, and allow the alt writs act as a direct descendent of the judiciary act of 1789. other than the supreme court which is created by the constitution everything else is created by congress but all of the other courts, the number of courts, how many justices are on the supreme court granted federal courts the power to issue extraordinary writs in aid of their respective jurisdictions for it while it is clear the all writs act authorizes the issuance of traditional, not writs of prohibitions the phrase all writs encompasses common law injunction subpoenas. do not worry about all of that. what that really means is there are many ways of characterizing this direct appeal to the supreme court and relaying the facts and what is taking place under the law to the court. in fact you can use multiple requests it says choosing the correct to obtain the desired relief is no longer necessary in the federal courts, different may be sought alternatively or cumulatively. the choice is not unimportant these subtle distinctions among the various have no effect on the relatively usefulness as vehicles for review. we are not seeking until lockard tory review at the federal level but in effect we are of the state courts activities. hello count before you finish on the estate side we have big questions at the supreme court needs to answer. the jurisdictional pre-requisite for application of the art writs act is simply it beat necessarily appropriate in aid to the jurisdiction of the issuing court the supreme court the company explain the power of the courts of appeals under the act quote the question of negative powers long been settled by this court presents a courts of appeals could at some stage of the proceedings entertain these cases the power and proper circumstance to reaching them. this is an expression of prospective or concurrent appellate jurisdiction, the power of the courts of appeals is not limited to cases where an appeal has already been filed. rather this power of review extends to all proceedings for the actions of the trial judge at some future stage of that litigation may be reviewable parade that applies to the federal chain but as i explained here, we have violations of federal law, federal constitutional provisions by a state court. now the supreme court, the federal government ever get involved in state court decisions? or state law decisions or state regulatory decisions? you better believe it. they are things called express federal which is what we have here federal constitution, federal due process rights. equal protection rights under the constitution applies to the state. federal jurisdiction under the federal election law under a presidential election and i can go on and on and on you have implied federal preemption. you have the states that are obstructing federal preemption of this litigation of presidential activities taken place before it gives the supreme court jurisdiction a states cannot regulate congress which is what it is doing and that court when it takes over authority for determining what a federal election violation is. that is important. the equal protection clause or the due process clause or the first amendment free speech clause about a nondisclosure agreement. federal court started with the supreme court of intervene in state actions before the civil rights issue, death penalty issues, bush versus gore a presidential election issue. you have federal jurisdiction issues and how are they used? the supremacy clause t of uc commerce clause that necessary because when it comes to regulating federal elections, especially presidential election congress has exclusive plenary power the supreme court has overall authority. you have an extraordinary radical extreme multitudinous case of a violation of federal law. whether it is substantive. whether it is processed. whether it is jurisdiction, this is the case. mia s is at first out of the gate i would file comment lot writs for a writs of prohibition that extremes a body exercising public power from exceeding its powers. it does not have it seems like this. you can file a writ of mandamus ordering a lower court to state their action while the court considers it. it might go if they writ a us or see your itchy argo and there s a statutory basis it does not matter. you have got to take it to the door of the supreme court they will decide whether to take it or not and if they don t, shame on them. because if there is ever a basis for what we call a common law writ, it is this. they do not take it in the trump case they will have to take it in the future because these dark blue states are not going to stop unless they are stopped. when i come back america s when i come back america s governor, governor ron desantis. -it really is both. -hmmm. the lexus rx plug-in hybrid. introducing new advil targeted relief. the only topical pain reliever with 4 powerful pain-fighting ingredients that start working on contact to target tough pain at the source. for up to 8 hours of powerful relief. new advil targeted relief. there s news, and there s good news. like thousands of patients receiving free life changing surgeries, from volunteer doctors and nurses on hospital ships. all made possible by donations. we love good news. mark: welcome back america. america s governor, governor ron desantis. welcome. governor, if member of the house he been a governor for a while now you are considered a very, very successful governor. you look at joe biden. he has executive order he puts out he says i m going to fix the border. he destroyed the border. he signed over 90 executive orders and now he signed another executive order. we hear nothing is changing on the border. he not only violates the take care because of the constitution were it not only violates multiple parts of federal immigration law he lies, and lies and lies to the american people more that michael cohen. what do you make of this? ask mark when you re in the position of executive responsibility sometimes bad things may happen that are not your fault for their sometimes bad things are happening if you would have had some foresight you could have headed it off and then there are things that are the sins of omission. the border is a sin of commission by joe biden. he overturned the trump policies that is what has caused the crisis this did not just happen out of thin air it was manufactured and engineered by joe biden. the policy consequences have been disastrous you have highlighted people, i have highlighted people who have lost loved ones for criminal aliens coming in we know what s happening with human trafficking we do with the cartels are doing. then of course that just the sheer number of people you have a liberal jurisdictions but in the interest of illegal aliens over their own people which is outrageous. then you have the constitutional question that you cite. when you put your left hand on the bible and raise your right hand to take the presidential oath you are taking an oath to take care of the laws be faithfully executed. joe biden has systematically violated that oath. he has not lived up to the office of president duty to make sure our laws are enforced and even doubly so as commander-in-chief he has a responsibility to ensure and enforce the sovereignty of our country and he has not done that. and they have lied and 10, 20, how many millions of people it is had negative consequences on american society and in our country and in our sovereignty. then they re going to want to try to pull over the wolves over people eyes sink he is the one doing something for the border. he s going to blame the republicans and congress but the republicans in congress have made mistakes. i think they should have attached the border to all of these appropriations they refuse to do it. but the bottom line is this executive order is windowdressing it is a farce. you and i both know the corporate media s going to run interference for him on this for the rest of the election are going to try to act like the border is taken care of they re going to try to act like he solved the problem. first of all that is not true. second of all whatever happens between now and the election the day after the election he s going to open it back up again. we know that is going to happen it s really up to the american people at this point to put a stop to it. mark: you know joe biden likes accusing president trump of being a dictator, when to put people in prison. that sounds like projection, doesn t it? and on top of that he lies about so much. for instance he supreme court of the united states twice ruled against him. he has defied the courts, the fight a supreme court to supreme court rulings was talk about democracy and the constitution and the rule of law. then he lies and says effectively trump is going to do what he does. what do you say to this a president who is defying the supreme court who defies immigration laws? in fact defies a lot of laws when it comes to this country. what do you say to him? once you have two things one is, you are right this guy is a serial liar. on all host of issues on the border, on the student loans, even minor things he is constantly doing it. the difference is when donald trump was a president he would ve said something with her, out of place you d have 10 quote unquote fact checker from corporate media organizations trying to say that s not true they would do all this and spin this all up there with biden these guys have gone on three aand a half year vacation they basically let him do all of this stuff very rarely is he held accountable. often times an indirect await with just friendly fire. from the whole corporate press you have a president who lies constantly have a president who is not up to the job that is not something they don t want to talk about but on the constitutional question ease in violating the constitution with the student loan gambit. they had the statute on the books for 20 years and all of the sudden that can be used to have taxpayers bai of bail out people with student loans? if eight truck driver is taxed to be able to pick up the student loan of somebody who got a degree in gender studies, that is wrong but it s also not legal. he has not gotten congress to enact that policy do you know why? if congress voted to enact that policy a lot of them will get voted out of office is not with the american people want. he s a flouting the law in a number of different ways. one of the things that is frustrating is there s a lot of people who are apathetic out there about all of this and i do not think there is sufficient outrage and at how he has condud himself in office. mark: we will be right back. nee e and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. let s fly! 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(elevator doors opening) (inaudible sounds) i thought you were right behind me. only pay for what you need. liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. our daughter just bought her first house. all by herself. so we went to go see it. she knew exactly how she wanted everything. but then he pointed out the gutters. you think you ve raised them right and then she didn t know. you have to call leaffilter. leaffilter s patented filter technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good. parenthood is such a wild ride. it s a lot easier with leaffilter. join millions of satisfied homeowners. call 833 leaffilter today or visit leaffilter.com welcome to fox news live i am jon scott and new york b for israel prime minister benjamin netanyahu s urging to change his mind and rejoin the country s work cabinet. eight centrist a member resigned from the government earlier today over netanyahu handling of the war in gaza expect to do step down yesterday that plan was put on hold after the idf rescued four israeli hostages. he is leaving does not pose an immediate threat to netanyahu it means he will need to rely more heavily on his far right allies. former president trump is set to meet virtually with the probation officer for a presentencing interview tomorrow. it is related to his recent criminal conviction in new york. the interview will help the judge to determine his punishment. trump was found guilty as you know on 34 charges of falsifying business records. i am jon scott now back to life, liberty & levin. . mark: welcome back america with america s governor, governor desantis. is joe biden at war with working-class americans, with the middle class in this country? one 100%. think about when he came into office, what did he do? an unprecedented spending spree that is spark the worst inflation we have seen in the last 40 years. he pulls at grocery bills have gone up 50, 60, 70, one 100% since he has been president. their wages have not gone up that much. he also came in and tried to force covid vacs and mandates on people threatening truck drivers with losing their job and other blue-collar people he has allowed the open border and people working some of these states illegally that is depressing wages from working people. then of course if you look at his overall approach to energy policy, he is putting climate ideology over bread and butter economics for the american people. he wants you to pay more for gas pretty want you to pay more for electricity and he wants you to pay more for automobiles. mark, most people do not want an electric vehicle but most people cannot afford an electric vehicle and yet he wants to plunge us in that area. it has been a frontal assault on the middle class, on working people all in service of this bankrupt ideology and by the way, a lot of the big city mayors and prosecutors deserve a lot of the blame for the crime. but biden is right in there with them on wanting to put people back on the streets he supports eliminating cash bail he supports the soros funded proseoffendedprosecutors acrossy and incidentally, in florida we had two of them here one in tampa, one in orlando i removed both of them from their post. they are gone because they put their ideology and their political agenda over their duty to enforce the law. tampa people in their jurisdictions at risk. we are not standing for that in the state of florida. biden was to facilitate that all across this country. in fact you were sued when you fired that prosecutor and you won in court the other day. this is what i mean conservatives need to take risks i do not mean or reckless risks they need to follow their principles and take them through action. this is the one of the things you ve been doing as governor over, and over, and over again it s not enough to whine and complain and wring their hands and we are in positions of power we have to do things people look at your experience in your success as governor, this is what it is about i promise this, these are my principles i am implementing it we will duke it out if we are sued. let me ask you this, why does joe biden hate the state of israel? that is my view and hate the prime minister of israel he never talks down the fascist fundamentalists that run ironic. never talks about president xi and a negative way i don t think he needs knows how to spell kim jon owens name in north korea so it s a relentless war against the israeli, the idf against trent one. what is his problem? what sees a puppet to the far left in this country. he does not want to offend the far left tease he s virtue signg to them. those of pro- hamas people at columbia and harvard aren t taking over the campus for their taking over offices. that is joe biden s base. he s got to cater to them by attacking israel the pro- hamas people, their anti- semitic, anti- israel and that is what joe biden has reduced himself to comment to virtue signal being anti- israel all in the service of trying to scrape up votes among the far left fringes in this country. but what he is doing is not serving america s interest. israel is the only ally in the middle east that we can depend on through thick and thin. they re the only country in the middle east that reflects western values and american values. and benjamin netanyahu has been a tremendous friend to the united states. this is rooted in the biden s ideology and in his weakness as a leader he is sick cow child to some of the craziest moms this country has seen in quite some time. mark: governor, one last question. even that you and in europe has condemned iran for pushing out inspectors because iran is on the precipice of having a nuclear weapon. the biden administration was lobbing france, britain and germany not to rebuke them. they finally voted for it was prolonged of those countries wanted to do it in september. i run as going to get a nuke on his watch because he s not doing the thing to stop them. this is so bizarre obama was the same way and the obama nuclear deal was a total disaster donald trump came in and turn the screws on the iranian regime and that worked the room she on its heels they did not have cash coming in. they could not do a weapon they did not have the wherewithal to do it. biden comes out, floods them with cash their funding terrorism all across the middle east october 7 would not have happened had we had a strong iran policy. he is paving the way for iran to get a nuclear weapon and it is delusional policy but it s a double lead so given his democratic predecessor when vice president tried the same policy and that policy totally flopped. mark: it governor desantis home to think of her think of that in the state. i think you ve done in the country my best to you and your family. god bless you my friend. godspeed, mark. mark: we will be right back. sara federico: at st. jude, we don t care who cures cancer. we just need to advance the cure. it s a bold initiative to try and bump cure rates all around the world, but we should. it is our commitment. we need to do this. mark: welcome back america. i always love having victor davis hanson on the program s got this book out how you get it at amazon.com at any major bookstore and i strongly recommend it. victor davis hanson are the great historian i watched joe biden give the speech at d-day. went back and listen to reagan, his was nothing like there is despite the propaganda in that media i saw the cheap shots. i saw him talk about crane which is good in my view. even though we re spending a lot of money in ukraine he s holding back. hholding the leash back for the seam to determining military pulse in the oval office with a bunch of eggheads. world war ii and part two and the holocaust. many left and went to israel. even more than that give speeches like a black universities and elsewhere trashing the united states. think people in the audience do not have a chance but they have to work extra hard. i am watching him at d-day with great heroes behind him. who fought their lives on the line and someone died to defend an america joe biden does not believe in. emmett wrong about that? so you re absolutely right. as they are leading a group and just exudes how much we owe that generation. reagan was coming off a disastrous and was there in the lecture like biden he talked very softly. it was with a big stick. he had to increase the defense budget he restored deterrence. biden is coming off a successful administration a and the sending and talks loud of her he screams but does not have any sustenance to back it up he talks loud and carries a twig. he kind of yells or emphasis does not fit the somber occasion. reagan is as close to d-day as it reagan is to biden. this generation, the baby boomers he has a baby boomer as am i. you look at perspective we did not carry the burden. i am being candid in comparison to the people at omaha beach. look was sent to the military. recruitment is a weight down because people do not want to be treated this way in the united states military. what he did with the troops on the vaccine for a look at what he does on the budget for china is on the rise. the access is on the rise. russia, ironic, north korea, he does not act like it pretty screams about democracy and a russia and a war coming. is he preparing the american people psychologically? is he preparing the defense department? eight national security and so forth what s with this guy? works i do not know he speaks more negatively of donald trump in cap the country that voted for him they does the existenial enemies abroad for the only thing that excites him is when he says semi- fascist or hyper magna or super maga. he s done a lot of damage and people do not realize the we are borrowing $10 billion a day at a trillion every three months. we alienated you mentioned 45000 recruits and that is the demographic the white mail demographic accounts for that shortfall. the died twice of numbers in iraq and afghanistan and overtly or almost every in the country. that doesn t work. that is on top of the 8500 he drove out who most of them have natural covid immunity they did known to be vaccinated. this is a terrible record i think everyone is worried why that this is recoverable and what year or two or three. if he has another term i am pessimistic for the first time in my life. if we can recover from it. twenty-six oh we come back victor davis hanson how do you come back with all of those crosses behind him on d-day. all of those men the vast majority of whom are white and christian. and then the next day you re more than happy to give a political speech attacking the nation s founding. attacking the nations history. attacking racialized and everything trying to turn america against america. you stood there in front of these men 95, 98 over 100 years old to put their lives on the line. so many died that day and so many battles. not just of the civil war, world war i, world war ii and we go on and on and on. and yet lower yourself to the lowest most grotesque part of the gander and trying to get elected president of the united states for that is my question to you victor davis hanson. we will be right back. home inspectors, general contractors, roofers; all kinds of pros recommend leaffilter. why? 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works i get very upset. that generation is buried beneath the white crosses. they were eight wonderful a wonn if it was not for them they ve not had discussions on a race and the eia. they were a chain make a leak in this great chain of america. i m named after victor hansen who died on okinawa 1945 on may 19 and my father flew 40 missions on a b-29 over japan. they were wonderful people. they were not racist of the type of people who built this country the people coming across the border from all over the country for there not from europe they re coming to a country that was established by so-called toxic white mail founders but why is that? these white mail founders were ecumenical. that it wrote in the declaration all men are created equal the logic extension is that multiracial democracy they created it yet all we do is smear and label them. it is one of the worst things for a leader to speak ill of the dead and they cannot respond. they use modern ideas of morality to go back centuries and condemn them. demagogues especially when he does to the people in the military. you are the only commentary, mark, i ve ever been asked that. that is very sad. most people are afraid to even mention it. mark: it is very frustrating to me. i am jewish. this nation was founded on judeo-christian beliefs. if it was not for the christian majority in this country, i don t think the jewish people would have had a place to go where they could feel safe. and now you see fusion of the marxist islam a and the colleges and universities in the democrat party. which is threatening the whole foundation of this country. this demand, and joe biden just not speak against it pretty gives a speech or to his government does not act against it. and in fact he lobbies it in dearborn, michigan and other places of the country because he wants to get elected. he really is as donald trump says the worst president in american history certainly modern history. lexi is. all you have to say if you are guest from the middle east and you are on a student visa and you break the laws of your host, that is us. you re not going to be here any longer. you ll get your wish to go back to where you re came from since you want to go there anyway pretty always told us is a much superior place to live than where you are now. at if the college of presidents would say it we have rules, you broke then you are suspended for you are expelled. but they don t at stanford university they say if you break our rules and something might happen or could happen or would happen the logical result is a storm the president s office like they did this week and burglarized it. they do not understand deterrence simple deterrence it. if you say something follow it through and treat them if they should beach treat it as a break the laws of the country. mark: the brief moment we have can you think of a single speech in the united states that joe biden has given that is patriotic, that is inspiring, that is uniting to the american people? it because i cannot. because i don t think he can because he has a base of support and this new democratic party. it s not even a democratic party it s up radical neo- socialist party. their world view white males are toxic. anything he says about the past might be acquainted with the majority of white males. he can t say it and he won t say it. it s very ironic talks about privilege but no family has used his for greater privilege from themselves. yet he attacks the white middle class at they have privilege he enjoys. i really do not like what he does at all. think that is one of the reasons he is so unpopular now, so hypocritical. mark: he goes a place like the holocaust museum talks about anti-semitism. he has his foot on israel s throat cutting off armaments to mcgough s independent told this to me is the holiest site our government has. he viciously attacks half of the american people. i think this guy is an arsonist. a political economic societal arsonist. this election is our ability to put the fire out. victor davis hanson thank you for everything you do. it s always an honor to have you. god bless you my friend for a quick thank you for have me, mark. i really appreciate it. mark: we will be right back. e l. the three-row lexus tx. 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[music playing] welcome back america, when i think about joe biden i asked myself many questions but this one in particular, what exactly has he done for america. he and his family have gotten rich, they ve gotten powerful, he has the highest office in the land. what has he done to deserve to be president? is he inspiring, does he give great statesmanlike speeches, is he securing our country from enemies without and within. izzy building up her institutions, is he encouraging young people to embrace our country and learn our history and our principles? is he bringing peace and prosperity to the country? is he doing things about crime in the inner city that are effective, what the hell has this guy done throughout 50 years that has been positive for this country, nothing. nothing. i will see you next time on life liberty and levin .
on this new hour of diamond, a key member of israel s core cabinet has resigned. what does this departure mean for netanyahu s war on gaza? also, tonight, extremism on the rise, hate group surge across america and why are migrant family still being separated at the u.s. border and being left in limbo. here with is live, let s do it. we began with an important seismic shakeup in the israeli government. benny gantz, one of the three core members of israel s war cabinet and vitamin netanyahu s top clinical rival has resigned. in a press conference today, he said, quote, netanyahu prevents us from moving forward to real victory and accused his far right coalition of prioritizing political considerations over war strategy. last month, gantz gave netanyahu an ultimatum, present a plan for the day after the war in gaza, by june 8th, or else. it was one of the most visible signs of division within the emergency wartime government, a team of political rivals who had until recently projected unity. but netanyahu has not produced a plan for gaza s future beyond rejecting a two state solution and insisting on israel s long- term security oversight over gaza and the west bank. so gantz followed through on his threat to step down, delayed by one day due to the brutal israeli attack to rescue hostages in gaza. today, netanyahu, for a second time, publicly urged gantz to stay, posting on x, quote, israel is in an x essential war on several fronts. benny, this is not the time to abandon a campaign. this is a time to join forces. with gantz s resignation, it will not merely think netanyahu s government but it does mean that he now needs the far right members of his coalition more than ever to stay in power. already, the national security minister highly controversial figure, ben-gvir, one of israel s most radical nationalists and is now demanding a seat in the war cabinet. he is saying he was the power of his party to be given expression and not as it has been until now. gantz was asked today whether his resignation leaves the israeli government without any adults in the room. here is what he said. i was very privileged together with my friends to bring to the cabinet room all the experience we have. i know that the other people, mainly off-balance and they know it should be done hopefully they will stick to what should be done, and it will be okay. this is the biggest shakeup to israel s leadership since october 7, and comes at a critical moment in the war. a comp room hostage deal is on the table right now. the world is waiting for a response from hamas, but it is not clear if israel will also accept the terms outlined by president biden. netanyahu says there are gaps between the proposal biden described and the one he approved, and even ministers like ben-gvir have rejected it. netanyahu will make his case for what he describes as israel s just war when he comes to speak before the u.s. congress. we must ask, will gantz s departure result in real fundamental change for the war in gaza? the problem does not lie singularly with netanyahu but with israel s ideological and institutional approach to the palestinian issue, largely speaking. the policies preventing, for example, palestinian statehood and liberation are deeply entrenched in israeli society and the resignation from one so- called moderate cabinet minister will not necessarily change that. joining me now to discuss this ambassador alan pincus, the formal israeli consul general in new york and chief of staff are four is really foreign ministers and eastern africa studies on the council of foreign relations. he is also the offer of the book, the end of ambition, america s past, present, and future in the middle east. gentlemen, it is great to have both of you with us. ambassador, i will start with you and get your take on this is recognition. does any gantz is recognition change anything about how israel conducts this war in gaza or these talks for a cease- fire and hostage deal? high, good evening. it looks like a drama. it looks like a political earthquake. it is not but it does have the potential to evolve and do something very dramatic if mr. gantz resignation. which is according to most of his critics was related by at least five or six days months. to a large extent, any guest in decision-making and the cabinet was marginal. his ability to affect change in both the prosecution of the war and in developing and crafting a strategy for postwar in gaza was marginal. he essentially became an enabler. i think if you read stephen cook s article on foreign- policy yesterday, even the americans got him wrong in terms of thinking he is some centrist, even left of center. in terms of policy, he is a decent man. there is no malice there. he meant well when he joined the government. it was a time of emergency. effectively, he enabled netanyahu. he is complacent and he is an accomplice to every mistake, every strategic fluid assumption that this government made. now, in terms of how this will affect the war, it doesn t change the fundamental element, the fundamental parameters of what needs to be done. israel still faces a binary choice, except the plan or not except the plan. it sounds bizarre, i m in, netanyahu rejects israel s plan. it is like, you know. 1994. george orwell except that it is netanyahu s 2024. so in that respect, nothing changes as a result of his departure. stephen, there is an interesting element in his press conference, i should say, a fact that came out and that is he is honestly calling for new elections in israel this fall but that was somewhat echoed by chuck schumer here a couple of weeks ago. senate leader chuck schumer, the highest making jewish official american history demanding that netanyahu step aside and calling for early elections, as well. first of all, do you see that happening? what are the chances that the next reiteration of the israeli government does not move further to the right, if you do bring in somebody like ben-gvir or give more power to the more right of netanyahu elements in the government and society. there is pressure coming from the outside for a new elections, and certainly from within, from benny gantz. the other major figure in the opposition. but netanyahu, even with gantz s decision to leave the government has a solid majority in the knesset so he can stick it out as long as he has the support of his partners, the radical right. think of a. this government is likely to move further to the right, as a result. however, it is true, any gantz has played essentially a marginal role. now that you have ben-gvir demanding on a greater say in the war effort, that is likely to move things to the right in ways that are not good for the palestinians, obviously, and the israelis, as well. gantz poss resignation is actually quite puzzling to me and ways. if he is concerned with national security and israel, if he is concerned about the war effort, it strikes me that he would want to remain in the war cabinet and insert himself rather than take himself out and let the country continue its march to the right. and who knows what will happen. ben-gvir and most of us want to resettle the gaza strip. that is an ultimate disaster so it may be that gantz thought he could save himself but fight for another day and improve his political chances. but it leads to a suboptimal outcome for everybody else. what does that mean, stephen, for the united states in the situation? you got the secretary of state, antony blinken now heading to the region for the eighth time since october 7th. they are on the cusp of waking up to an israeli government that is more extreme and, as you just said, potentially calling for the resettling, the full reoccupation of gaza and the displacement, perhaps, of the palestinians. if you do bring in people, or not bring in, but to give people like into mark ben-gvir more power over the conduct of this war and gaza policy. i was perhaps the least optimistic person in washington when it came to a cease-fire anyways. and i am even less optimistic about this. there is no basis for agreement at this point. unfortunately, it seems, after all this terrible bloodshed, that the conflict is not yet ripe for a resolution and secretary of state tony blinken is going to find the same problems that he found on his previous trips. ambassador, your thoughts on what america should do now? as you probably heard my previous hours, spoke to former u.s. army major who resigned saying that america actually does have a lot of leverage over israel. perhaps more so than any other country in the region. he needs to step up and exerted to change course. as a diplomat, former diplomat, i should say. what you think america should do now as it sees this israeli government, and even just consistently moved to the right and to the extreme right with no fundamental change in policy, vis-@-vis the palestinians? in president biden s credit, to president biden s credit. he warned mr. netanyahu, the government was informed that this is an extremist government and then when mr. netanyahu instigated a constitutional coup in january of 23, it was followed by biden not refraining from inviting him to washington, to the white house for nine full months, and then the war rocha, et cetera, et cetera. so yes, the u.s. has all kinds of levers that it can use. it chose, until now, not to use them. and i heard your interview with major, and you made actually, you presented, submitted two premises, and you are right on both. both has letters and chooses not to use them, and, to a large extent, most of its lovers, because mr. netanyahu has been entranced and defiant and is actually seeking confrontation with biden. his plan right now is to try and stall and waste time and wait until america is sucked into its election cycle, full force. around september. and then he hopes that mr. trump will be elected. there is no question and there is no doubt about that. what the u.s. needs to do now is one of two things. it needs to do its basic calculus of how much our american interests being sergeant here. and that pertains to a possible escalation in lebanon and direct feed, rather than what the palestinians or pull out, meaning, you know, say to mr. netanyahu, do what ever the hell you want, but leave us out. which is obviously not a reasonable or realistic option. but what they can do. i know we don t have time. the u.s. can do and has not done until now is for president biden, not anyone else, not secretary of state link in, not national security advisor sullivan. for biden himself, for the president himself to stand out, stand up, and make a speech differentiating, drawing a distinction, a clear distinction between israel and mr. netanyahu and calling mr. netanyahu s bluff, if he believes that is going to be a blow. i don t know. will have to wait and see if the president is watching this, maybe he will heed your advice. ambassador, i noticed very late in israel. thank you so much for staying up for us. i really appreciate it. we appreciate it. we greatly appreciated. stephen cook, great to see you, as well. my friend, congratulations on the book next up, why a man dressed up as an exterminator started a hateful conspiracy theory that is spreading like wildfire ahead of november s election, then later on, caitlin clark left off with team usa. was she snubbed? 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first, thanks for having me on. i think it is right on target. what we saw after january 6th, 2021 was a period of time where you know, extremists kind of went into a short period of trying to regroup obviously the arrests and prosecutions had some substantial impacts on that world. but arrests and prosecutions aren t enough, and when you re not dealing with the root causes of the problem, these groups are able to kind of essentially regroup and then re- emerge even stronger. and i think that is exactly what we are seeing and what the southern poverty law center is pointing to. how does conspiracy theories play into the activity and rise of hate groups right now thinking about the harassment we saw play out at a migrant shelter in san diego. what led people to the january 6th insurrection, how is it that these baseless theories are resonating so much with people on the far right driving them to make these both online and real-life threats, even things like pizza gates that we saw several years ago? and menus, conspiracy theories are kind of a defining feature of extremist hate groups. one of the things that they do that is so important for them is that they offer a bridge of sorts and that conspiracy theories can reach a much broader audience. of course, we saw that on january 6th, in terms of the attack on the u.s. capitol. lots of different sorts of folks that ended up showing up by the thousands at the capitol that day. you had the proud boys, you had the three presenters. oath keepers, neo nazis, neo- confederate, a lot of folks that weren t necessarily affiliated with those groups. one thing they had in common is they all believed in this conspiracy theory about the stolen election. and you know, these kind of ideas are really, provide people a special sense that they are aware of things that the average person isn t aware of, and provides them with this kind of special knowledge, secretive knowledge, special insight. it really goes along with the idea, the that extremist groups offer to their adherents, that you re a part of a special population, special culture, special country, special race, special religion that is different and, quite frankly, superior to other groups. when you look at this record number of anti-lgbtq+ and white nationalist groups in 2023, numbering 186 and 165 respectively, why are these groups specifically, in your opinion, growing so significantly as they have grown? has there m.o. shifted and having this kind of hatred towards the lgbtq+ community? that is 18 many hot button issues that these kind of groups are good at identifying and then targeting and really spending a lot of time directing disinformation towards and propaganda and really trying to highlight the supposedly dangerous and risk a so that go along with, from their perspective, these hot button issues. immigration has been one for years, as well. and frankly, right now, they have at their fingertips, some of the most powerful technology in human history, in terms of social media platforms and the problems that you mentioned, the root problems that we are really not addressing, social media platforms, the lack of regulation around those. that will certainly be one of them coupled with national leadership that is helping essentially espouse some of the same ideas using literally, in the case of donald trump, the language of nazi germany to help promote these ideas. so they had these megaphones, whether it is national leaders or social media platforms at their disposal, that really empower them to a substantial extent. do you think that we have the adequate legal tools to take on these organizations x when you think about, as you were just mentioning, the issues of social media. it obviously rubs up against the issue of free speech in this country, that is always a find point when you re trying to go after these groups, he almost kind of have to wait until the free speech becomes actionable and they go out and carry out some kind of attack or potential violence. at which point it violates the law but up until the point of actually doing something about it, it falls, some would argue, under free speech. we have the legal tools the way that we have designated foreign terrorist organizations to go after isis and what have you? do we have enough adequate resources and tools to go after domestic terrorist organizations? i think we do have, i don t think a new statute is the answer, per se. i do think essentially utilizing resources that we have, being more aggressive, understanding that arresting and prosecuting is an important part of it, it is a necessary part of it but it is honestly not the only part of it. and then a civil issue, in terms of talk about the law. i do think that it needs some changes in that realm as it relates to social media platforms and being able to hold them more civilly accountable for the material that they are publishing and, of course, that means congressional changes to section 230. and i do think it is clear that social media platforms are not willing to take the kind of aggressive actions that are necessary to essentially cleanup their platforms. all right, professor pete sent me, it is a pleasure, thank you so much for joining us. i greatly appreciate your insights. thanks for having me. next, families are still being separated at the southern border. and why. and why. the best way to solve a problem is to keep it from happening. 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[sfx] ambient / laughing. last october, a peruvian family was taken into border patrol custody in the san diego area, during the process the parents were separated from their 18-month-old son, then released without him, according to a report from prison. if it wasn t for several military organizations that stepped in to help, that family may have never been reunited. they were able to track the boys whereabouts to a detention center hundreds of miles away, in texas. according to this february reporting from prison, legal advocates have accounted for at least 1000 instances of family separation across san diego county under this tactic known as street release, where migrants in custody are released without resources or shelter. at the start of his presidency, joe biden officially rescinded trumps zero-tolerance policy in the reunification task force that, according to dhs, has reunified 795 children with their parents, as of march. but despite those efforts, families are still being separated under a president who campaigned on a humane approach to immigration and strongly denounced the policies of his predecessor. now despite that, biden has signed an executive order this past week that drastically curtails humanitarian right to seek asylum. joining me now to discuss this, and more, is president and ceo of global refuge and a former policy director on the obama admin, and msnbc contributor who has done a lot of reporting on this and many other issues. it is great to have both of you with us. i will start with you, under a settlement reached in december with the families who were separated under the trump administration, border officials can still separate families in limited circumstances, such as if an adult poses a danger to a child or to national security. that didn t appear to be the case with the family that we just mentioned. to what do you oh these types of policies still taking place today? i think most people would be hearing about this now and still be shocked that this policy is still happening in this country? i think part of what we are seeing is a situation where policy does incentivize family separation. and that is true not just on u.s. soil but at the u.s.- mexico border, as well. when you think about even the new executive order, which exempts unaccompanied children, what that means is that a family that is fleeing for their lives, makes a possible choice of either allowing their children to travel unaccompanied across the border so that they can reach safety, or to remain in mexico obviously, families have experienced assault and far worse. in terms of the specific case that you are describing. i think this is where you know, there still some confusion on how policies are being implemented. we care for unaccompanied children and, obviously, it is horrific to see that even under this administration, we have echoes of what we saw as a real policy under president trump, which was essentially government sanctioned kidnapping. this report the site a difference between the family separations under trump versus biden, under trump federal immigration officials separated small children from their parents, whereas under biden, officials separated different family four nations, mainly parents and their adult children what does this say overall about our immigration system, specifically that these policies are continuing under a democratic president? is that just the result of vague policies and the lack of clarity as to how this should be implement it? or is it because there is something different at play here? i think what you re seeing is a biden administration that is falling into a political trap i do think we have to be very clear when we are talking about zero-tolerance, going back in history, that was such a dark chapter in our history, we had a trump administration that made decisions out of cruelty and made decisions out of the action of dehumanizing others. and here we have a biden administration that is falling into a political trap. over the last four years we have seen this admin that has made promises and that suddenly, it is shifting to the right. as you pointed out, ayman. i want to remember that the very very last week of the 2020 november election, the biden campaign released a video call separated. and in that video, just five days before everyone went out to vote, he specifically highlighted trumps zero policy initiative. he highlighted the cruelty. in here we are, just five months before the election, and as we have been discussing, he has been starting to sound and use language that does sort of remind us of donald trump. and at the end of the day, that is a political trap because the bottom line is, you cannot out trump trump when it comes to immigration and the border. what worked in 2020 was that humanity, as you described, anything that tries to shift to the right of donald trump is a failed political strategy. so to that point, krisher. makes a really good point with this flaming framing of a political trial when it comes to the issue of immigration. i do want to turn to biden s new executive order. any any time the seven day average of a legal border crossings reaches 2500 migrant entering the u.s. between legal ports of entry, with some exceptions, will be banned from claiming asylum and deported talk to me about how this is implemented. several department of homeland security officials responsible for carrying out the actions. on the condition of anonymity to msnbc, there is concern that the tension facilities across centers for migrants could quickly become overcrowded. what are you hearing about this and why? it is such an important question because for organizations like local refuge who work with asylum-seekers, the executive order raises a number of concerns. for one, there are very significant questions about its ultimate legality and enforceability. you know, the trump administration used the same authority to shut down the southern border and that was also really locked by federal courts. also raises some serious locations for asylum seeking families who are trying to seek protection because of these arbitrary numerical limits. i think the final important point is just understand that we know from trump era policies that were hard-line restrictions. they don t actually deter people from crossing the border. so we are perplexed by a policy that isn t going to actually be effective, that is harkening back to the trump administration, and i think it is a result of congressional inaction. but the administration could put in place a system that respects our border, but also respect our humanitarian and legal obligations. back in april, reported on how migrant women are being targeted by cartels as they wait and limbo at the mexican border to hear back about their asylum claims. i remember talking to you about it back then. how do you see biden s new order exacerbating this specific issue? i mean, as all of us know, the desperation isn t in there. what we are seeing is simply a more dangerous situation. what this means on the ground is that more families, their lives will be in the hands of the cartels. they will be held hostage. they will be exposed to sexual violence and sexual assault. many families will be sleeping in tent cities. many families will go hungry. many families will be repatriated to countries that are death sentences. many families will set a suddenly be staring into the united states at this time them, no matter the violence that they are facing, no matter the inhumanity, no matter the cruelty. no matter how many attempts there are by the cartels to end their lives, in this country, or try to make it harder for them to seek asylum. we all know that that desperation will only mean that these families will literally put their lives in the hands of the cartels to find other routes to cross into this country. that is what we are facing. a troubling situation for every one involved. thank you so much for the both of you, greatly appreciated. coming up, far right extremism spreads across israel, sanctioned by one of the country s top government officials. i have type 2 diabetes, but i manage it well jardiance! it s a little pill with a big story to tell i take once-daily jardiance at each day s start! as time went on it was easy to see i m lowering my a1c! jardiance works twenty-four seven in your body to flush out some sugar. and for adults with type 2 diabetes and known heart disease, jardiance can lower the risk of cardiovascular death, too. serious side effects may include ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration that can lead to sudden worsening of kidney function, and genital yeast or urinary tract infections. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop jardiance and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection ketoacidosis, or an allergic reaction. you may have an increased risk for lower limb loss. call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of infection in your legs or feet. taking jardiance with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. jardiance is really swell the little pill with a big story to tell! it s never a good time for migraine, especially when i m on camera. that s why my go-to is nurtec odt. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. it s the only migraine medication that helps treat & prevent, all in one. don t take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. people depend on me. without a migraine, i can be there for them. talk to your doctor about nurtec odt today. what tractor supply customers experience is personalized service. made possible by t-mobile for business. with t-mobile s reliable 5g business internet. employees get the information they need instantly. this is how business goes further with t-mobile for business. from pep in their step to shine in their coats, when people switch their dog s food to the farmer s dog, the effects can seem like magic. but there s no magic involved. (dog bark) it s just smarter, healthier pet food. it s amazing what real food can do. this week, israeli extremist marched through the streets of jerusalem they were celebrating jerusalem day, which marks the conclusion of the june 19th 1967 war, that is when israel and conquered and occupied the territory including the west bank and east jerusalem. israelis claimed it to be a reunification of jerusalem, despite east jerusalem largely being inhabited by palestinians, and all attempt at a peace accord envisioning jerusalem as a capital for both israel and palestine. while marching through densely popular to palestinian neighborhoods, some of them are tours chanted death to arabs and may your village burn and other racist and violent slogans. the most troubling things were attacks on journalists. these are palestinian journalists, clad in a press pass, being threatened and physically attacked by a mob right wing israelis. he was kicked and pummeled by the mob, had objects thrown at him and sustained a head injury. even more troubling, it was the journalist who was detained by police, who confiscated his equipment after he was attacked. i known right-wing activists contacted the police and claimed that he was a hamas operative. that is all the evidence the police needed to detain him. also reported that the police did not arrest any of the at at attackers. intimidation from the palestinian sections of jerusalem not new. this mart has been and will for decades. we re not just dealing with outlaws or a fringe group this is appearing at the core of israel s power structure. take for example, national security administer, ben-gvir. here that this week s march and visited the complex that palestinians referred to, israelis called the temple mount. israeli journalist called the move a, quote, shattering of the status quo, since the rules about who is allowed where at this compound are extremely delicate. in the far right israeli leader marching through the muslim holy site is typically seen as a provocation of violence. case and point, september 20th, 2000, right wing opposition leader in the and infamously made the same track. a move that helped spark the second palestinian intifada. went on to defeat labor months later, which ended any hopes of an israeli-palestinian peace accord and ushered in years of increased violence. so been here knew exactly what he was doing. when the u.s. government continues to give israel unconditional financial military and diplomatic support and aid, american should know exactly who and what their tax dollars support. more ayman after a quick break. ak. will if you have chronic kidney disease you can reduce the risk of kidney failure with farxiga. because there are places you d like to be. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum 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anticipated games of the season, the first wnba clash between former college rivals, and now start rookies, angel rees and caitlin clark. the most notable moment came in the third quarter, when chicago sky guard kennedy carter hit checked caitlin clark before the ball is inbound, essentially pushing her to the floor your average fan but what a cheap shot, it is also the kind of hard lay one occasionally sees in pro sports. regardless, the incident sparked hot takes galore across the sports world. with many mostly male commentators calling on league officials to protect caitlin clark. other reactions were plainly inappropriate. espn host called mcafee called her, quote, a white b word. he later apologized. the chicago ran an editorial calling a hip check to sold. the median meltdown is part of what the atlantic dubs the one downside of gender equality in sports, a movement in women s basketball means more commentary from men who don t know what they re talking about. join me now to discuss this is the author of that piece, contributing writer for the l.a., jamel hill. it is great to have you on the show. you know, so much to unpack here. let me start with charles barkley and other male commentators who accused the wnba layers of being jealous of clark s popularity, the carter foul seems to have supercharged that view. what do you think that type of criticism gets wrong about how veterans are treating clark? well, one, thanks for having me on. one, i think a lot of them and who are commenting, they seem to come at the same time, forget about how they competed if they were former players in the way that charles barkley was , forget about how they commentate and frame a lot of the story lines that happen on the men s side, whereas when men challenge each other, when a new rookie comes in and there is some kind of. were, of course, you have want to see how misses person really who they say they are, it is often considered a competitive and natural part of the game. yet, with women, they seem to reduce their level of competitiveness to something that is very triggering, particularly when we are talking about a leak that a 70% black. they go with these code words, petty, jealousy. making it sound like we re talking about a real housewives reunion on bravo. this is not what this is, this is a competitive fire. and naturally, of course, when you are the talent, the generational talent that caitlin clark is, there s going to be a lot when you come to the next level. the women in the wnba are the escalators of the world at their sport. it is a reason why the olympic team has won seven gold medals in a row. it is a reason why they are 70 and three and they haven t lost a game since the 90s. where did the thing is women were coming from? this leak. if they re that good that would me naturally for any rookie, there s going to be a bit of a learning curve where they can understand the physicality and the way the game is played. it is very natural in men s sports when you go from college to the pros, that in college, you can t get away with in the pros. that is what makes it the pros. but the men who commentate seem to forget all of this when it comes to caitlin clark. you bring up an interesting point. i do want to ask you about that. there has been an obvious racial component to some of these debates. carter and angel rees, who were seen cheering after the foul are both black. and people are talking about that and explained that point how does race play into the media s explosive reactions to the story lines? will this is a collocated question, and a complicated answer. so let me go back and sum it up correctly. okay, again, the wnba is 70% black. so the face of the caitlin, they made out to be black. one of the tropes, and many of the tropes about the black women is that there confrontational, aggressive, petty, jealous, all the things. so when those traits are ascribed to women in general, when people want to talk competitively about women. i think, in this case, particularly sticks because you have that object of black versus white. let s be honest, another white player had done, it would not merely have been as inclusive as it was. because you have the dynamic of her and angel rees, a black player and a white layer having a personal rivalry, it becomes racially charged by the optics. i m old enough to remember when johnson, when they were college rivals came over to the pros. a lot of what people talked about then, how their talents are characterized was based off racial perceptions in this country of both of them. i don t know why people think that this wouldn t be alive and well in this rivalry, but it is. and angel rees has bore the brunt of a lot of this because she chose to, you know, sorta be confident about the level of play that she has when they were in college. and listen, i don t agree that she should have been clapping when kennedy carter took her down but at the same time, within the context of a broader rivalry. they took some cheap shots at each other, that s what happened. again, it is interesting how the same things that are celebrated, marketed, and that fans love on one side of the game, a totally different gender, they are suddenly clutching their pearls on the other side. i grew up a little bit in detroit. i know very well what a violent or tough basketball game looks like. but to ask you about something you brought up really quick. we are almost out of time, though. the debate that was parked this weekend about caitlin clark being left off the u.s. olympic rascal team. some describe it as a snub. she is still a rookie, though. she s a two-time nieces mentor winner. has not included the standout rookie before or any rookie is before, what is your reaction and do you agree with calling it a snub? i don t think it is a snub and i honestly wasn t surprised. i thought this months ago. i think she is going to have a pretty hard time making the team. and that is not about her ability. i think eventually caitlin clark, i think this is almost a guarantee. about the transition, she went from playing college ball to play in a professional league within a matter of weeks, when they were holding the child in their camp, she wasn t able to play in any of that. she has some international experience but not a lot. she is at a position where it is a little bit tougher because you are a guard a little bit on the slight side. she is adjusting to the physicality where the international level is more. it is a very successful team there is a lot of people that do not get on this team and work this time around. and so i think if we just take the caitlin clark nests away from it and people will probably better understand the decision. like you said, the women s team is the most dominant team in the sports. it is tough to break into at any level, let alone your rookie year. thank you so much, greatly appreciate having this conversation with you tonight appreciate you. always. that is it for me tonight. thank you for joining us. make sure to catch ayman, follow us on x and instagram. after the break , and encore presentation of prosecuting donald trump, witness to history. until we meet again, have a good night. i felt like disconnecting. i asked my doctor about treating my td, and learned about ingrezza. ingrezza ingrezza is clinically proven for reducing td. most people saw results in just two weeks. people taking ingrezza can stay on most mental health meds. only number-one prescribed ingrezza has simple dosing for td: always one pill, once daily. ingrezza can cause depression, suicidal thoughts, or actions in patients with huntington s disease. pay close attention to and call your doctor if you become depressed, have sudden changes in mood, behaviors, feelings, or have thoughts of suicide. don t take ingrezza if you re allergic to its ingredients. ingrezza may cause serious side effects, including angioedema, potential heart rhythm problems, and 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after 22 witnesses and 16 days of testimony, donald trump has become the first ever american president to be convicted of a crime. this trial will go down in history. but without cameras in the courtroom, americans never got to see the evidence for themselves. they didn t get to see trumps eyes close and his mouth go slack as he sat slumped at the defense table. they didn t get to hear stormy daniels salacious testimony, firsthand. i didn t get to watch the judge clear the courtroom, seemingly in anger, as he butted heads with one particularly truculent witness. instead, americans have to rely on word from the few reporters who were actually in the room, making notes, writing down, committing to memory the things we saw and experienced. things that a transcript cannot capture. take a look. that was something to behold. i could hear gasps all around me . i wasn t sure we are going to get to a place where we had any guilty verdict against donald trump, let alone all 34 counts. donald trump was crying from the oval office. he was writing checks from the white house. this is a professional jury as you can get. and you can never read anything from them. in terms the vibe from the room, you heard about it being kind of a courtroom, it s real. i was in the courtroom, his eyes have been close most of the morning. i can t say what is happening behind those lids. one simple work, guilty, repeated over and over and over. something we have never seen before. , tonight we welcome you to the special msn ec event, prosecuting donald trump a witness to history. over this next hour, andrew weissman and i will lead you through what you missed inside the courtroom. not the line by line details of witness testimony, but with the help of our msnbc colleagues, will tell you what it was really like to sit just behind donald trump as the details of the case spilled over. we will tell you what it felt like in the room when witnesses took the stand just a few feet away from the former president. the unscripted, unpredictable moments when the former president seemed to be nodding off, uttering curse words. what people said to each other in the line for the bathroom after that riveting controversial testimony from stormy daniels. from andrew weissman and best legal minds, we will hear from what they saw inside the court, that the nonlawyers, like the rest of us, might have missed. start things off with our first impressions from inside manhattan courthouse. it is a surreal moment going for the first time. and see a former president of the united states, who is simultaneously the world s greatest con artist. those two things at the same time as a criminal defendant, just spends things in a way that nothing else can. and the weirdness of that alone is your first in the courtroom. in that first hour, it is hard to take in anything other than the weirdness of donald trump. anticipating going into the courtroom, i was actually excited to do it. but first of all, because i feel like a somebody who has written a trump book and has been covering this man from the beginning of his presidential campaign on, this kind of felt like a crescenta moment for him , and for the country. it is the only trial that he is going to face. so it definitely felt like a big moment and something that i really did want to witness for myself. having worked in another investigation, and we could not charge the sitting president and donald trump, that was a department of justice rule. now, in a full-fledged criminal case, it was kind of remarkable. i thought there would be a lot of people there. a lot of pro trump people, in particular. and they really weren t. and then found my nbc pham, around the spot where we do stand up, found all the producers and camera operators and everything and stood in line for a really long time. i will say, the thing that i learned was it is not what you are wearing that makes a difference. it is what you are wearing on your feet, because where you are going to get caught is through the soles of your dress shoes, you idiot, why didn t you wear sneakers? people understand, it is not you just walk up to the courthouse and they whisk you in and it was this easy breezy kind of thing. you line up outside, across the street from center street because they anticipate a number of people showing up. so you have three different lines, it is, flake flying on an airline was actually kind of put you in a different group of people to board. two courtroom that look identical, the only difference being the judge and the jury, et cetera, are in the overflow. the overflow room hold other members of the media and also withhold members of the public. the overflow room has a very large monitor at the front of it that shows directly councils table. so you have the prosecution on one side, the defense on the other. what you very clearly see donald trump. it was like a spa compared to the courtroom. you can go to the restroom whatever you want to. you can, and there is this absence of tension. in the overflow room. that i didn t know i was feeling in the courtroom. until i wasn t in the courtroom. and it is almost like, you know, you re standing in this very difficult window all day. and then the wind stops. it is that kind of very different sensation in what seems to be the same place. the day before senator tommy tuberville of alabama had gone to the trial and said it was the most depressing building he had ever been in, and he scorned on it. and i take that man s statement with a grain of salt. but it was perfectly nice. it was a good, highly functioning municipal building. it kind of struck me how much a certain class of americans are used to very elite spaces, and they are not used to public spaces. in a simple spaces, bureaucratic spaces, you have to spend a lot of time in those kinds of spaces. elite people, people of power and money, they tend to be in grandeur. donald trump in that setting, both when he is walking past you, he walks in and out and you kind of seen for the first time. this was the first time i have seen him in person, he was less than expected the first time i was in the courtroom, donald trump was very surprised to see me because i had been mostly reporters, very few anchor types showing up there. and donald trump has hated me longer than anyone who was going to walk into that courtroom. he was once very fond of stormy daniels and you know, very fond of michael cohen. in 2011, when donald trump started about the presidential birth certificate, i said he was lying about it and i called him on the lie and donald trump had never been called a liar before in his life when he was leaving that day, he just did the stupidest thing you could possibly do, he looked right at me, in this grand way, that everyone in the courtroom could see, and he was trying to do a face that would be tough guy and scary and threatening and full of hate, but he is a terrible actor. and so it came out as just an insanely twisted face that meant nothing but madness. and i loved it. if there were cameras in the court, people all over america in all 50 states would be calling in sick to work in order to stay on and watch this thing. i mean, it is so freaking compelling in person. and the drama of this particular criminal case against trump is both lurid and cogent and full of amazing characters, and has just enough surprise to make every witness kind of a cliffhanger. it s, you can t. i don t know if trump is falling asleep or if he is just resting his eyes, but it is not boring. it is riveting. riveting is the perfect word to describe what it was like inside donald trump s trial. every trial is dramatic, it is why we all get addicted to tv shows like law and order and the wire. this is real life, and it was no exception. but it is one thing to hear the news about it, or if you are a nerd like me, to read the cold transcript. but tonight, we re going to continue to learn from people who were inside the courtroom, day in and day out, waking up at the crack of dawn to wait in line to get one of the few seats available to the public and the press at 100 center street here in manhattan. so tonight i m joined by a very special legal panel, who also spent many hours in the manhattan criminal courthouse, please welcome nbc senior legal correspondence and attorney, laura jarrett, in legal contributor, and former terminal trial attorney, katie fang, and msnbc legal correspondent, law litigator, lisa rubin. they are here with us for the whole hour, along with msnbc hosts giving us their impression from inside the courthouse. lisa, obviously, some of these witnesses got a ton of attention. they may not have been the most important witnesses. but stormy daniels, michael cohen. maybe the most surprising witness, which was the defendants last witness, the last anyone heard from bob castillo s. the big picture, what was your impression of how they did that people might not get from just reading accounts and hearing from us about what was technically said what was the sort of demeanor and tone that people might get i think the most important part about the witness that you can t get from reading the transcript, or sometimes even watching our coverage is the entrance and the exit. because all the witnesses were brought in through a side door to the courtroom, instead of the traditional back door where you walk along the entirety of the gallery, he watched through the center aisle and walked to the witness stand. here, each and every witness, no matter hostile to donald trump or friendly, had to walk by his first row of surrogates on their way into the courtroom. went by corporal security officers and those of them who had counsel, their counsel then load thereafter. in some cases, trump really wanted to have an interaction with the as with rona graff, his former executive assistant and other cases, the body language was as hostile as hostile could be. michael cohen looks like you wanted to vault over the courtroom doors so that he could avoid being even proximate to donald trump. that that entrance and exit was really fascinating to watch. katie, i had a question to you is somebody who spent so many years as a criminal prosecutor. lots of people have talked about how there should have been cameras in the courtroom, at least audio. and let s leave that aside for a moment. how do you think, if there had been cameras, that might have affected witnesses, the lawyers on either side, or even the defendant, donald trump, if this had been televised. i think it would ve increased the intensity of the experience for everyone involved, especially the witnesses. you kind of ask yourself on and off, donald trump himself would have maybe reacted to more visibly than he did. maybe she wouldn t have acted or looked like he was asleep if you knew that there was a camera trained on him. but when it comes to the witnesses themselves, it is important because if they knew, just like we have seen in other trials, that they would be on the witness stand. i think it would ve amplified maybe even performances that we saw from some of the witnesses. i think you are more hyperaware. i also think the jurors would have been aware, even if you never saw their identities, i know that they know it is important, what is at stake. but when you re in a courtroom, it is a small space. people need to understand this is not some huge cavernous federal courtroom. it is a small state courtroom and so people are within very close proximity, within feet of each other. and that is the jury. so if you know also, does not just people in the court that are watching or the overflow room, is america and the world, i think that amplifies the intensity. i was really surprised by how close the witness stand was to the jury box. really close. and actually the witness stand for donald trump was much, much further. so that was something i think you don t get from being there. much more for supersmart legal panel who were inside the courtroom, coming up. first, it is one of the most shocking testimonies of the truck, when stormy daniels took the stand, all while apparently, unbeknownst to us, wearing a bulletproof vest. after the break, our team takes us not only inside the courtroom, but inside the elevators and, wait for it, bathroom lines. where reporters try to process what they had just heard. you re watching prosecuting donald trump, witness to history. many of the journalists in the room are looking at each other think, my gosh, i can t believe that this is happening. i cannot believe this is actually being set on a public state. either way, how am i going to communicate this on television? everybody wants super straight, super white teeth. they want that hollywood white smile. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it s a great product. it s going to help a lot of patients. head & shoulders 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cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. far-xi-ga welcome back to prosecuting donald trump, witness to history. it is our special report on in person, in the courtroom reporting of the first-ever criminal trial of a u.s. president. so after years of covering stormy daniels, and her claims that donald trump paid her to keep quite about a sexual encounter so it wouldn t, before the 2016 election, what was it like to finally see her in person? when she finally took the stand to testify against him. and, after her dramatic, combative, sometimes shocking testimony, what was the conversation like among the reporters and the spectators of the courthouse? and, what about that bullet proof vest her lawyer says she wore to court. here are some more firsthand accounts from my colleagues from inside the room. when she came in, all of us kind of took a deep breath. no one expected we don t know who the witnesses are until that day. for a reason. right? the prosecution always protects their witnesses. resources we might figure out who witnesses maybe an hour beforehand. that morning, donald trump had posted on truth social that they had just informed of who the witness was and they had prepared and that person shouldn t be able to take the stand. and so the minute he had posted that, and then, by the way deleted it an hour later, we said, it is going to be stormy. i have compared this trial to watching two movies that are made eight years apart. and none of the central characters look the way you remember them in 2016. that is true of michael cohen, for example, as it is stormy daniels. on day one, she came in in a jumpsuit with her hair sort of haphazardly piled up on top of her head, wearing glasses, and not looking at all like the adult film star that we remembered. i have since come to learn, because her lawyer said this on another media outlet, she was wearing a bulletproof vest. and that accounted, i think, for her appearance, as well. she was wearing an outfit that accommodated her wearing a bulletproof vest because she felt that her life was at risk in coming to court and testify against former president trump and the reaction of people in margo world, who are loyal to president trump, i could just tell you this by looking at my twitter feed, reinforced why she felt she was in danger. we know trump reactions to stormy daniels thing, you can see. but there s donald trump, known to millions of people as the orange turned that has to sit there for the first time in his life and listen to himself being called the orange, his defense lawyer thinking that somehow harms stormy daniels. that she flippantly refers to donald trump as the orange turd. there s not a juror there who cares that stormy daniels refers to him as the orange turd. not one, they re not offended by it. these are new yorkers, these are people who have hurt worse in every trip on the subway. so we leave the courtroom, we walk out, there is like a row of bathrooms during breaks. everybody kind of lines up in the bathroom like you would in any kind of public place. we are all online looking at each other, giving eyes to each other. oh my gosh, that really what happened? getting onto the elevator, going down for lunch, did she just accuse the former president of this? did she just say this happened with the former president everybody s kind of mulling over and digesting what it is we all just heard the jurors, i think, have been admirably sort of stonefaced. i know i have seen reports, i didn t see it with my own eyes, but i ve seen reports of some jurors kind of involuntarily reacting to some of the more salacious details i came out, particularly during stormy daniels paths tory., the jury was like stonehenge. like they were very restrained. this is a case about falsifying business records and the defense team made it sound like a 1970s rape case. they went after her about really hard about the fact that she has been in the porn industry for years. you have been in more than 200 porn films, how could you be a damsel in distress in the hotel room? in that moment, look at right at the jurors faces to try to see if i could read anything and get any glimpse of what they were thinking. they were inscrutable. they are maintaining a poker face the whole time. this is the same courtroom that harvey weinstein was tried in. this is a storied courthouse. this is a storied prosecution team. they have done sex crimes before. this was such a momentto have the woman at the center of this case basically told she couldn t have possibly been a comfortable because she had been. she was treated so differently than other witnesses. hope hicks and david pecker, the person at the head of the national enquirer, were devastating witnesses. they are sensitive testimony is so damning for donald trump and their cross-examination was kid gloves. nobody s testimony is in some respects, more devastating than hope hicks, because of her proximity. nobody questioned her credibility but if you take a step back and you separate these women and you forget about the accident of their respective births, hope hicks, for example, coming from very wealthy, greenwich, connecticut. sort of the academy of poise and grace in the trump white house, contrasted with stormy daniels, who had, by contrast, very rough childhood, a mother who abandoned her. all this comes out on her direct examination. but the difference in how they were trusted, i think, is really palpable. sort of a toxic brew of class and misogyny. there was absolutely a judgment about her credibility based on what she did for a living. and then you have to think to yourself, well, wait a second. hope hicks may look the way that she did, but she not only worked for trump once, she worked for trump twice she left the white house in march of 2018, came back to work for the former president, and stayed after he lost the election, despite the fact that she was privately advising him that he had lost in the things that his lawyers and allies were saying about his not losing the election and his winning were fraudulent. she still stayed. i have to question, who lacks credibility now? so fascinating to hear their stories. the legal brains in the room or hyper focused on the defenses strategy to go hard after stormy daniels on cross- examination. but not hope hicks or david pecker. our panel had a front row seat to it all is back. so, katie, from your spot in the courtroom, what do you think of stormy daniels? how did she do from actually seeing her life, as opposed to just reading it cold? she did a spectacular job. stormy daniels s testimony did not come across as rehearsed. whether you liked it or not, because of the sincerity. didn t seem like she rehearsed or practiced her testimony. given, she had prepared and that is the big difference. preparing with lawyers is totally different. but she prepared for that and she did a great job and i think she knew that even though, i call it a detour, not a sideshow but 80 torr of the case took a detour to export what happened between her and donald trump because he had to create the foundation of why the payment was made by michael cohen. how it got to the level of the business records being falsified. but you needed to have that dialogue. and what is really important, everybody likes to say that this is a paper case but is about humanity in some way, right? people s courage, people s involvement with others. extramarital affairs, hush money payments, all that is a very human thing and she brought that humanity to the case. i had the same reaction. i thought, in many ways, she did better on cross, because you got a better sense of her as a person. and she was responding sort of naturally to questions that she didn t know what was coming up and she really got a sense of her and also i thought how smart. exactly. you know, the sort of assumption, as you said, are ones that are sort of, i sort of found myself checking myself saying why am i so surprised? i should not have been. so laura, so one of the more unusual aspects of this case was how it ended with bob castillo being called by the defense. i did not see that coming. lisa always thought they would call him. i thought they wouldn t do it. i am with you. one of the reasons i m with you is that bob castillo, if you remember, was somebody who donald trump said before this case was indicted, that he wanted the grand jurors to hear from you that well, okay, that is a really stupid move because it is never going to stop the grand jury from indicting, you just revealed something to the prosecution. and as a defense lawyer, one of the things you have, sometimes almost the only thing you have is surprised. and so here they sort of, it was flopped out to the prosecution a year ago. so obviously, the call record here does give some flavor to castillo. i don t know if he explains the clearing of the courtroom and how dramatic it was to be in the room with the judge who was so fired up. i thought he was going to throw him behind bars. so bob castillo gets on the stand and right away, he is combative, he is aggressive. he is rolling his eyes, he is muttering audibly. could you hear it? i am in the courtroom, lighting up the chat like, guys, this is going off the rails fast, okay? we had a sense it was going south but i didn t know it was going to go as south as it did. in the overflow, by the way. you are also communicating to your colleagues? we sort of have a bizarre pony express situation now. allow do some electronics not also we can use our phones in the physical courtroom because i think there s a concern that somebody is going to mess up and tape it, even though we had been admonished not to but we can use our laptops. and so we can send messages by email, by slack, by dm but we can t use our phones. so in the chat, we are all sitting color from the courtroom about what we are observing, that tone, about how things are going. i often just focus on the jury is i m very interested in what they re picking up on. right away, the jury is looking at each other like something is about to go down here. so it had been a sleepy morning. everybody was sort of feeling monday, all of its glory. and then bob castillo get on the stand in the afternoon and we are off to the races. so because he was so, i think, contemptuous of the judge and the process and did not like being interrupted this is a federal prosecutor who really felt like he should be respected and he thought susan hoffinger, the prosecutor, was telling him in a way that he didn t like and he didn t like interrupted when she was objecting. most of those objections were sustained. so in the room, the tension is boiling, okay? and finally, the judge sends the jury out. i go oh god, here we go. but then, robert costello is giving it back to the judge, and the judge got so upset he clears the courtroom from the press, which is highly unusual, okay? usually, there s a security situation, that is one thing. this was not that. the judge was fired up and i think he was worried about what he might say and so he clears the courtroom for only a few minutes, we should make that clear. it wasn t long. we all come back in and he is still kind of rolling his eyes for the remainder of the afternoon. there is a period, the period where everyone gets out of the courtroom other than, you have honestly the defense team, on the prosecution table. but then the public and the press are out of the room. not all of them. that is what i was going to say. so it is really interesting because i think as we mentioned, the first two rows, which were sort of friends of, like bride and groom. they are still there. but this is what, all of us have to go through, the cold record. it is chaotic. the media is screaming we have a right to be here. our media lawyers trying to object. the court officers are having none of it. everybody is ushered in. thank you, the judge to make a record of what happened. so in a couple of hours we also the transcript, we know what happened. in the moment, we all were sent out but obviously should not have happened. this legal panel the state put four more of our excellent discussion. but first, you could feel the tension in the courtroom when trump s one-time fixer, michael cohen, took the stand and came face-to-face with his ex-boss for the first time in years. he was like sammy groove on a and he just skillet and can weigh, a long line of under links flipping on their bosses. after the break, our team gives us their first-hand account of what that moment was like. the first moment when trump s lawyer, todd blanche, gets up and asked cohen, did you call me a little crying [ bleep ] or whatever it was, and the judge immediately instructs them to approach as the d.a.s office raises an objection. everyone was talking about that. 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[vroom] [train horn] [buzz] clearing the way, [whoosh] so you arrive exactly where you belong. once the testimony from stormy daniels was over, we didn t have to wait long before the next very dramatic testimony , michael cohen, trumps former fixer and loyal attack dog. now a star witness for the prosecution. and his testimony placed the former president at the center of this alleged criminal scheme. so what was it like in person? what was it like when michael cohen saw his old boss for the first time in years? and what was it like to witness the showdown between cohen and trumps defense lawyers? during what turned out to be just a brutal cross examination ? let s go back inside the courtroom with our msnbc and nbc colleagues. the jury has been waiting for this moment as long as we have. it is highly anticipated. they have come face-to-face before in the civil fraud trial, but this is criminal this is different. and he is the only one who can tie donald trump directly to this crime. he is the linchpin of the prosecutor s case and he has given up the goods. he has put him from trump tower to the oval office in a way that nobody else can. there s a few moments that really stood out. the first moment wins trumps lawyer, todd blanche gets up and asks cohen, did you call me a little crying [ bleep ]? the judge immediately instructs him to approach, as the d.a.s office raises an objection. everyone was talking about that. everybody was talking about how strange way for blanche to open up the proceedings. when you prosecute cases whenever but he has her hands dirty. that was michael cohen of the time when he was working for donald trump and doing these things for him, it always, always captivates and captures the interest of the jury when they hear from the fixer, when they hear from the henchman, when they hear from the guys that did the dirty work for the kingpin. i did not notice any interaction between the former president and michael cohen. but i did notice how closely michael cohen is making i can t with the jury, especially when he is describing some of the most emotional parts of the story. when he is describing his come to jesus moment when why he decided he is going to choose his family over donald trump i think cohen was successful in maintaining control over his own demeanor. he did not get agitated. he did not act out. there were times where he got short or little snippy but mostly maintained the kind of equilibrium throughout that i think was probably helpful with the jury. i think he did do a pretty good job of humanizing himself look, there are many people on the jury that will never know a person whose loyalty to an accused criminal defendant was as extensive as michael cohen s was by his own admission. of course, michael cohen is a person who pled guilty on two different occasions to a panoply of federal crimes. one of the federal judges called it a smorgasbord of crime. i think you humanized himself? yes. i think it is necessarily relatable? not quite. but he doesn t have to be a person that they want to have a beer with. these are some the most stunning days in court when michael cohen finally took the stand. as the piece mentioned, the jury seemed to have been waiting for that moment as long as the journalist in the room had. but being there, in person, there s some really noticeable differences between the michael cohen we have gotten to know on cable news shows or maybe his podcast versus who we saw testifying. his demeanor, how he sounded i will have to say, i posted a double take when the defense played a clip of cohen from his podcast, when you heard his voice from the podcast, and compare that to what you had heard from the stand over the last day. in that contrast is something that can play very well for the defense in summation to argue there are really two michael cohen s katie, lisa, and laura are back with us. i wanted to ask about that issue of how you thought his very polite, unflappable, even killed demeanor. solemn. which, in many ways, is what you want a witness to be. i thought that played given that they did see this other piece, they actually heard his voice and he also was describing the way he behaved in bullying people and acting as, a phrase that i hate but i m going to use, as sort of trumps pitbull. he has done that the moment is coming for a long time, for anybody getting up there, it is rattling and he kept his cool, even when things got thrown his way that he was not prepared for and that were a surprise and made him look like a liar. even he was crossed at some point about his information about his wife and his child. that i thought oh, okay, what is going to happen, i was waiting for fireworks. but they didn t come, he kept a calm, and i think that he came off as, on the stand, sort of hat in hand on his. there were times where i felt like he was sort of resisting in terms of like, well, that doesn t play alive. i thought just tell them, of course, just own it. you have already come this far. they heard two on the podcast talking about revenge is a dish best served cold. let s lay it all out there and they won t punish you for it. the jury think you re being authentic. even if what you said is horrendous, right? jurors are like drug dealers and they think they are being honest, they have to come off as authentic. so i m surprised there were times where there was like, you could feel that resistance. katie, wanted to talk to you about juan merchan, the judge overseeing this. full disclosure, i now have a man crush on him. i just think he is just a spectacular judge. the first thing when i went to court, the very first time, i was struck by his voice and we have all been in court, we have seen judges and seen judges who can t control a courtroom. we have seen judges who control a courtroom by raising their voice and through histrionics and hear, he controlled the courtroom by being the adults in the room and had such a calm judicial temperament. and i just felt like he wasn t going to tolerate and he expected everyone to behave properly. it was just, i thought, sort of remarkable. that is sort of my view. don t let me influence you. how do you think he did? this is the first ever trial of a current or former president, enormous pressures, enormous claims of violations of the gag order that he found 10 times and a lot of novel legal issues to deal with, how did you think he did managing this case? we have been inside courtrooms, in front of judges, very high-stakes cases, the one thing that we know is the person who is gatekeeping everything is the judge, right? and to laura s point that she made earlier, the jury looks to the judge, sometimes as a paternal figure or a maternal figure or somebody who is going to be there to kind of guide us through this process, which can be confusing it can be mazelike for some people. the thing about donald trump is he has introduced us to different judges, right? we have seen the brett kavanaugh s of the world, and his demeanor during a confirmation hearing. we have also seen justice arthur engoron through the civil fraud trial. we have seen judge kaplan from federal court for e. jean carroll s trials. we have seen different judges. the thing that i think is so, so poor in terms of america not being able to know judge merchan is not being able to see and hear him because he is measured and he is calm, even in the face of all the scrutiny and all these complex legal issues. why? because this man came to the united states, he immigrated at the age of six from columbia. he is one of six children. he was washing dishes. he went to school. you know, he graduated at the first member of his family to go to college. he lived in queens. he worked at the new york d.a.s office, and the new york state attorney general s office and has been a judge since 2006. if there is anyone who isn t, i beg you, find somebody else that is not more new york than judge juan merchan. a lot of new york are, when you think about donald trump having a jury of his peers in this trial, but having a man like judge or sean who is overseeing just the personalities, right? and having to be able to manage that. he has done a fantastic job and i think it is just not good that we haven t been able to see that in terms of on video. i love your response, because donald trump has attacked this judge, is not the first time he has attacked judges because, as donald trump says, he is unfair because of where he comes from, to quote. we all know what that means. and your answer tells us exactly where this judge came from and there will be controversy from this trial, one side or the other, in every trial, one side is disappointed or not, as to what happened. and the fact that we were all there, inside the court, i think we can all agree. this is such a fair trial, and such a fair process because of the judge, there are really good lawyers on both sides. whatever was happening, it is not because the process isn t working. again, it is really important, and i think the judge is primarily responsible for that. so, all right, we re not the only ones consumed by this trial. our viewers also have a lot of questions, we ll answer a few of them. you re watching prosecuting donald trump, witness to history. ya know, if you were cashbacking you could earn on everything with just one card. chase freedom unlimited. so, if you re off the racking. .or crab cracking, you re cashbacking. cashback on flapjacks, baby backs, or tacos at the taco shack. nah, i m working on my six pack. switch to a king suite- or book a silent retreat. silent retreat? 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[ bird squawks loudly ] to a pet shop. meg s moving company uses t-mobile. so she scaled down her fleet to save money. and don s paying so much for at&t, he s been waiting to update his equipment! there s a smarter way to save. comcast business mobile. you could save up to 70% on your wireless bill. so you don t have to compromise. powering smarter savings. powering possibilities. welcome back to prosecuting donald trump a witness to history. a special report on in person, in the courtroom reporting of the first ever criminal trial of an american president. over the last 50 minutes or so, we have given you an inside look at the trial through the eyes of our msnbc team . but we know that you have lots of questions about what you saw over the last several weeks here is andrew wiseman and our legal panel. jakes, rachel. let s get right to your questions so meritor from new jersey asks, the gap city courthouse, why were special accommodations made for trump and his allies? i know you have been very fixed on the last part of his allies. for example, he was allowed to rent and against the judicial system in others and lie blatantly, and his son and allies were allowed to keep their phones while in court. so, why was that? i will give you what i think is the only reasonable argument for it, and then stipulate that it has been abused and wildly so. i think the legitimate reason is for his own security. these are arrangements that are made between the court, the nypd and the secret service. for example, trump enters through a separate entrance to the courthouse. there is a street that is blocked off for his motorcade to approach that entrance. these separate elevators, he s got his own holding rooms. when he appears for the press conferences, he comes through a set of darkened glass doors beyond which are those holding rooms however, there are some things that are going on here that definitely have been abused. the first of which is the reserved seats those are supposed to be for extra members of his defense team, and that is the way that the d.a.s office has used their side of the drive side, as you said earlier. in trump s case, he is using it for sort of rotating surrogate operation. and those surrogates not only have their phones, but they are tweeting from the courtroom. we can prove that they are tweeting from the courtroom, timestamps on their tweets or truth social post, and there often doing it to circumvent the gag order, which one of them admitted on another media outlet last week. there are some special arrangements here, that should have been made for former president security and yet they have been rampantly abused by him and his friend. including the group of people from congress wearing sort of identical uniforms, sort of mini me s of the former president. i should note, all former presidents are given secret service. donald trump has not been treated differently. from the netherlands, she asks, is the decision of the jury final? well, welcome to gain a panel of lawyers. this is the kind of question where, his lawyers don t have a great name, which is it depends. but here is like a one key answer if there is a conviction , that is something that can be appealed on the law. if there are legal mistakes that were made. the jury was instructed improperly on the law, is evidence was kept out that was material, improperly. those kinds of things can be appealed and it can take quite some time. so there is recourse there. so it s really complicated. let me just say, thank you so much to our incredible team. it is really great to be here, nerdy out with lawyers and all of us having been in the courtroom. thanks so much for your perception and insight and personal stories. and thank all of you for spending the last hour with us. if you can t get enough trump news, and you want to take even deeper, try the msnbc podcast, hosted by mary mccord and me. have a
, u know, paying it forward and trying to help people understand their sacrifice. karen davis, the nurse who survived the entrapment in the mega fire in paradise, california, says she lost everything in the inferno. battling the trauma from the flames, she decided to move to las vegas to be closer to her daughter and rebuild her shattered life. once there, karen continued her career in health care. she also decided to become a member of the henderson, nevada, community emergency response team, aiming to help others in future emergencies. a testament to her inner strength and resiliency. for more information on what you can do in a wildfire and how to combat the growing climate crisis, please go to cnn.com/violentearth. i m liev schreiber. thanks for watching. good night. [crowd shouting] [narrator] previously on secrets & spies. [ken adelman] in 1982, the soviet union had something like 33,000 nuclear weapons. [ronald reagan] they are the focus of evil in the modern world. [applause] [oleg gordievsky] the confrontation between west and east was very serious. there was really significant fear that this was going to lead to something extremely, extremely dangerous. [oleg] [crowd cheering] [narrator] this is the unseen story of the cold war. fought not by politicians. but by secret agents. [jack barsky] there was complete misunderstanding on either side. it s very difficult to determine whom you can trust. [narrator] as the soviet union faces off with the west in the early 1980s. two spies play a dangerous game from the shadows. they seek to win the upper hand while the world stands on the brink of nuclear war. these are their stories in their own words. testimony pieced together from interviews over the years. [oleg] after 11 years of secret work, maybe i develop paranoia. [narrator] .and never-before- heard recordings. [aldrich ames, on recording] [narrator] .that reveal the deadly intrigues at the heart of the battle between east and west. [alexander vassiliev] look, this is a war. a secret war. [dramatic music playing] [dramatic music playing] [ken] 83 had been a horrendous year for u.s.-soviet relations. really one of the worst. various things were done which scared the daylights out of the soviet union. you had the military exercise abel archer. [inaudible] the soviet union was unconvinced that if there was a bolt out of the blue, if there was an unprovoked attack by nato, by the united states, against the soviet union, it would be under the guise of a military exercise. we d also just gotten over the shoot-down of the kal airlines. we had gone through the evil empire speech. and so it was a real time of high, high tension. what we ve been concentrating on in the last ten days is the most important relationship in the world, and it makes an enormous difference to the world community when soviet-american relations deteriorate to the lowest point in 20 years, which they have. [tim naftali] when the competition is a nuclear competition, the uncontrollable risks of misunderstanding could have catastrophic consequences. and that s that was that s really the lesson of 1983. the stakes are uncontrollably high. it will be a miracle if there is not one or two major dangerous confrontations, direct confrontations, between the soviet union and the united states. [narrator] on the world stage, president reagan is determined to defeat what he calls the evil empire. but another battle is playing out in the shadows. [jack] for me, becoming a spy for the kgb was ideology. i am jack barsky. that s not the name i was born with. we stole the identity of a jack barsky who passed away at the young age of 11. i spent ten years as an illegal undercover agent for the kgb in the united states. i was 100% convinced that communism was the right thing. that the world eventually would wind up being one happy communist family. [narrator] in moscow, soviet leader yuri andropov continues running operation ryan. it feeds into his paranoia of a nuclear attack from the west. he has over 100 kgb spies overseas whose job is to win the struggle for global supremacy. but not all of them are loyal to the soviet union. top london agent oleg gordievsky has a dangerous secret. [ken] there is a cat-and-mouse relationship between the intelligence agencies. it was white-hot with the emotions on both sides. [narrator] in america, the cia builds a network of their own, recruiting kgb agents willing to turn traitor. and the new boss of this desk is aldrich ames. known to colleagues as rick. [diana worthen] i liked rick. i enjoyed being around him. i used to work for the central intelligence agency. rick ames was my boss there. i was loving it. [laughs] i really liked working on the soviet target. it always felt like important work to me. plus, watching my boss in action with the meetings he was going out to and what he was bringing back. [narrator] he is newly in love after a failed marriage. [diana] while rick was still married to his first wife, he met rosario. this is rick and rosario at the beach in puerto vallarta. they were in love. in a way, he was very good for her and she was very good for him. [narrator] ames s job is to protect the cia s growing portfolio of soviet agents. [tim] a very important part of the mosaic of information about the soviet menace comes from spies, human agents, each of whom is taking an enormous risk. and those spies are sending their information, ultimately, via aldrich ames. his job is to be sure that the information that these agents provide in the field is in a useful form for policymakers in washington. but he s also in a position to shape how washington uses this material. through this man goes the most important human intelligence that the united states is collecting in the soviet union on the soviet menace. through this one man. so he knows their names, and, of course, he s supposed to keep those names secret so that they don t die. [ominous music playing] [narrator] in london, one soviet double agent is more valuable than all the american assets. [narrator] the british source, oleg gordievsky, is third in command at the kgb london station. [narrator] gordievsky s intelligence revealed that the west s military exercise, able archer, provoked the soviets to seriously dangerous levels. [bianna golodryga] the security was heightened around the perimeters of the nato-u.s. exercises. russia interpreted that as not just another exercise, but perhaps posturing from the united states and nato to actually deploy a nuclear weapon. [helicopter blades beating] [narrator] yuri andropov, the leader of the soviet union, is so paranoid that one misstep could take the world to the brink of nuclear war. this misinterpretation about what the west s intentions were was something to be worried about. [narrator] and president reagan has no idea. [bianna] then the british decided it was time to start telling washington a little bit about who their new spy was, and some of the information that he was feeding them. in particular, that russia was indeed alarmed and russia was fearful. [narrator] but these insights come just as americans watch a nightmare scenario unfold onscreen. [laughing] [man] have a good weekend. [glass shatters] [ken] in late november 1983, abc put on a movie special called the day after. it was a movie of a town in kansas getting blown up by nuclear weapons. it s very powerful. president reagan watched it at, i believe, at camp david, with nancy. and he told us that he was kind of devastated by the whole thing. it was watched by over 100 million americans. and it was the rage. ronald reagan doesn t want to be seen as someone who brought the world close to nuclear brink. so he wants to be the peace-lover president. and he was flopping around wondering what to do about it all. [narrator] shocked by the reality of nuclear war, reagan offers his first olive branch to andropov. i believe that 1984 finds the united states in the strongest position in years to establish a constructive and realistic working relationship with the soviet union. just suppose with me for a moment that an ivan and an anya could find themselves, say, in a waiting room, or sharing a shelter from the rain or a storm with a jim and sally. as they went their separate ways, maybe anya would be saying to ivan, wasn t she nice? she also teaches music. jim would be telling sally what ivan did or didn t like about his boss. they might even have decided they were all going to get together for dinner some evening soon. people want to raise their children in a world without fear and without war. a nuclear conflict could well be mankind s last. reagan s big point was not the day after. the big point was the day before, and let s try the day before to make sure that the day after never happens. if the soviet government wants peace, then there will be peace. let us begin now. thank you. [applause] [narrator] but before any new strategy gets underway. a major tragedy rocks moscow. norman, bad news. i never graduated from med school. what? -but the good news is. xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal. i know. faster wifi and savings? .i don t want to miss that. that s amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? [reporter] it is after midnight in moscow. the soviet flag, the hammer and sickle, has been lowered to half-staff over the kremlin. yuri andropov, the soviet president, dead at 69. [ominous music playing] [nina khrushcheva] people knew that he had kidney problems. everybody knew he was sick. people were comparing his skin color whether greenish, or whether bluish, or whatever. so it wasn t really a surprise that he was dying. but at the same time, because of tensions with the united states, with the west, there was uncertainty. it turns out that yuri andropov had much more than a bad cold for the past six months. his funeral will be in moscow tuesday, and although a number of prominent american politicians urge president reagan to attend, he will not. [narrator] reagan s olive branch does not extend to a trip to the ussr. instead, he sends vice president george hw bush. andropov s death has left many russians feeling uneasy. they have now lost two presidents in less than a year-and-a-half, and that s bound to unnerve a people who crave security. [ominous music playing] [narrator] during this critical moment, british prime minister margaret thatcher is one step ahead of reagan. [lord robin butler] the intelligence reports from oleg gordievsky were very important because you are, as it were, seeing behind the curtain. margaret thatcher began to feel that there might be an opportunity for her to open a relationship with the soviet union. which would also be a platform on which united states could build. [narrator] thatcher will cross the iron curtain and attend andropov s funeral. her first visit as the leader of the british state. gordievsky s insight into the soviet leadership s mindset is critical. [woman] yes, hello, it s the duty clerk here. we have an amendment to make to the prime minister s travel arrangements for tomorrow. [narrator] gordievsky s briefings advise her to be formal but friendly, and soften her normally tough image. the soviets don t react well to shows of strength. on a human level, i think this briefing was extremely important. it s body language. it s style. it s smiling at the right moments, but not smiling at the wrong moments. it s how you appear. [reporter] [dramatic music playing] [narrator] the funeral provides an opportunity for margaret thatcher to meet the new head of the ussr. [reporter 1] the new leader of the soviet union is 72-year-old konstantin chernenko. [reporter 2] mr. chernenko had moved up to the graveside for the final salute. he s known to have had health problems of his own. moscow rumors have spoken of pneumonia, but say he s recovered. for a brief moment, he seemed to have difficulty raising his hand. now, more than ever, he ll need his strength if he s to consolidate his power. [reporter 3] the prime minister got a few minutes with the new leader and the foreign minister, andrei gromyko, immediately after the ceremony. she behaved in a very dignified way, but also in a. in a charming way. we know from our intelligence source that her behavior made a very favorable impression on the russians at that moment. we were very courteously received, and i very much valued the opportunity of half-an-hour s talk with mr. chernenko this evening. it s in the interest of the peoples on both sides of the political divide to live in peace and security. let s start on that basis and try to build up. [narrator] thatcher seizes the opportunity to put britain at the center of a new kind of relationship. a relationship that could shift the balance in the cold war. [news anchor] the new leader of the soviet union, konstantin ustinovich chernenko, immediately dispelled any suggestion that he might take a softer line with the west. [nina] for most of us, this kind of exhibition of state power was so tiresome. another old guy died, and now we re gonna have another old guy ruling over us. well, good for them. congratulations. it was a dying joke. it was an absolutely ossified system. [narrator] ronald reagan remains remarkably quiet following his ivan and anya speech. he s reluctant to invest in a leader who might not last long. [ken] ronald reagan is dying to negotiate with any soviet, but he says, they keep dying on me. they keep dying on me. he wants to have a real summit, and that chernenko was about 105 years old at that time, and drooling, and had trouble walking into the room by himself. [narrator] chernenko is so frail that there s no guarantee he ll rule for long. both sides of the iron curtain begin to look to the future. gordievsky picks up on rumors of a new young contender. mikhail gorbachev has risen quickly, from secretary of agriculture to the second in command in the politburo, a part of the country s ruling elite. [speaking russian] [in english] if it is self-evident that chernenko cannot survive very long, then the quicker we start having real contact with mikhail gorbachev, the better. [narrator] reagan is unaware about the new rising star of soviet politics. president reagan was very hawkish and had been very vocal about his views on communism and needing to break it down. not necessarily viewing the soviet union as a partner, but as somebody who the united states really needed to one-up in terms of this overriding issue of democracy versus communism. [narrator] but thatcher has moved beyond this and sees a bigger picture, thanks to gordievsky s intel. this is her opportunity to take control and steer the cold war away from its stalemate. [sir malcolm rifkind] a decision was taken to see if we could persuade gorbachev to come to the united kingdom. [narrator] they wait with bated breath to see if their offer will be accepted. [ominous music playing] [narrator] in 1984, the political relationship between east and west is as fractious and dangerous as ever. the spies continue their cat-and-mouse game to gain the upper hand. i lived in the united states with an established identity as an american. but i was actually spying for the kgb. the tensions were very, very high. the russians were trying to spy on us and recruit our people. we were spying on them and trying to recruit their people. oh, that s me. [jim laughs] i worked the soviet target. kgb, mostly. they were interested in me living behind enemy lines as an american. somebody who, if necessary, could do a lot of damage. what i loved most about the job, i think, was the, um. was the kind of the chessboard game with the russians. [jack] our goal was to weaken the enemy and eventually, you know, help the quote, unquote, working class, the suppressed, to rise up and build another communist nation. [narrator] the handling of the kgb double agents is coordinated by the fbi and cia working together. [jim] rick ames was responsible for monitoring every soviet case. all the important agent cases sort of had to pass by his desk and get his seal of approval. for him, it was probably quite an exciting time. is this motorin and martinov? they were both kgb officers. martinov was a joint effort between the bureau and us. sergei motorin was a line pr officer in washington, d.c., who we recruited. hmm! this guy i know very well. this is major general dmitri polyakov. i worked with him quite a while myself. [narrator] cia agent aldrich ames is in a powerful position. he has 20 soviet double agents all under his protection. [diana] we were responsible for these assets. it s a job i really took seriously. their lives were at stake, and they knew that risk when they were. had joined up to sign. [narrator] but ames is beginning to feel frustrated, and his endless daily commute gives him time to think. he d write these studies. everybody would read them and say, oh, that s really great work, rick. and then that would be the end of it, you know? they didn t really send it anywhere. [narrator] ames is feeling undervalued. the white house seems much more reliant on mysterious briefings from london. [starts engine] [ken] the intelligence from the cia was very good on military technologies. it was just not good at the main thing we needed. what is going to happen? you re asking to read the mind of somebody and to understand human motivations. that s tougher than what is happening or what has happened. [narrator] the intel the brits receive from gordievsky gives them just that. and there are frustrations for ames at home too. [diana] he was also having a hard time, in his mind, trying to figure out how to get the divorce from his first wife. and how much that was gonna cost him. [honking horn] [jim] he gave rosario, i think, an exaggerated sense of both how much money he had and his lifestyle. i think he exaggerated that to her. his old car was always breaking down. everybody talked about his old junky cars. why he didn t buy a new one? he probably couldn t afford one. [tim] he is leading a banal, middle-class life. with the important distinction that he has access to some of the top secrets of the united states. he feels that people don t recognize his importance. they have underestimated aldrich ames. [ominous music playing] [narrator] oleg gordievsky has proven so valuable, the british risk a bold move. they revoke the head of the station, arkady guk s diplomatic status. it forces guk out of london and back to moscow. when you do that, you open up the possibility that moscow will start asking about why the british are doing what they re doing. and moscow, which was already conspiratorially minded and paranoiac, might start doubting the loyalty of the people who were gonna benefit from the fact that resident guk had just been sent home. so that was a risk that they took. [narrator] it leaves an enticing opening. [sir david omand] with guk out of the way, mi6 could plan for gordievsky to step up a notch. could he become the actual head of the kgb residency in london? it would give him much better access to intelligence operations being run from london. [alexander] after arkady guk, the number two, it was comrade nikitenko, who was the head of the counterintelligence line in the station. of course there was a rivalry. but espionage is a teamwork, so you need a good member of a team. [sir david] mi6 have to be extremely careful. he s got to show that he s really on top of the job, and that he is the right person to lead the kgb effort in the united kingdom, yet not be so good and so provoking that jealousies and suspicions will come about. [narrator] mi6 might want gordievsky in charge, but their puppeteering can t be discovered. their strategy is a bold gesture with a potential double payoff. impress oleg s kgb bosses while making a strategic political move. [sir malcolm] with gordievsky s help, we invited gorbachev to come to the united kingdom. we waited a rather long time. then, suddenly, we got an answer. saying, i d like to come in the next couple of months, and i d like to bring raisa, my wife, with me. then we had to go into overdrive. [narrator] it s a momentous event with a lot at stake. gordievsky steps up and helps both sides to prepare. gordievsky is shown a copy of the foreign secretary geoffrey howe s brief, so he knows exactly how number 10 is gearing up. [sir malcolm] how do you get across the reality of what your actual position is? sometimes, the best thing you can do with intelligence is share it with your adversary. he s then able to, in his own words, tell gorbachev, this is what you must expect. these are the issues, for example, human rights, that the prime minister is going to raise with you. [narrator] gordievsky shares information on arms control, trade and economics, along with personal notes on thatcher. [baroness meta ramsay] oleg is telling the kgb what the attitude towards gorbachev would be, and what sort of things would go down well with mrs. thatcher, and what wouldn t. oleg was making sure that the right messages went in both directions. [sir david] the reaction of gorbachev reading his briefs was fed back to gordievsky. there were ticks in the margin. passages were underlined. it s very rare in any intelligence operation to have real-time feedback on whether you re actually having the effect that you hope to have. having someone in london who was in on the political line could produce world historically important information. that s why he was an unusually important spy. he was at the right place at the right time. a slow network is no network for business. that s why more choose comcast business. and now, we re introducing ultimate speed for business our fastest plans yet. we re up to 12 times faster than verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds. at no additional cost. it s ultimate speed for ultimate business. don t miss out on our fastest speed plans yet! switch to comcast business and get started for $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. call today! [dramatic music playing] [reporter] a decade after gromyko and 28 years since bulganin and khrushchev mr. gorbachev arrived to do a little ice-breaking. [camera shutters click] [sir malcolm] i was at chequers when he arrived with raisa, his wife. [camera shutters clicking] [reporter] it was an unusual affair. the man who arrived was good-humored, informal, and with a taste for well-cut suits. gorbachev seemed a new kind of russian. big smile on his face, as if he s meeting an old chum. [reporter] his wife, raisa, showed not every soviet woman was a 23-stone babushka. thatcher s deciding to be very open and very. she wasn t stiff at all. [indistinct chattering] [laughter] the photograph is taken of us all standing on the steps and so forth. now, have you got enough? -[photographer] thank you. -a handshake. madam, could we just turn. could you. [sir malcolm] margaret thatcher, in her usual taking control fashion, said, no, no, i think we have to have one shaking hands. and you ll stand on the end. -all right. -[all laugh] yes, now, i think. [robin] so at this moment, gordievsky s role was very important, actually, in creating a bridge between the british and the russians. [sir malcolm] and then the first thing to happen is lunch. she hogged him to herself for the whole luncheon. he behaved, if i can put it this way, he wouldn t have liked this, but he behaved like a western politician. [dramatic music playing] [thatcher] i like mr. gorbachev. we can do business together. we both believe in our own political systems. he firmly believes in his, i firmly believe in mine. we re never going to change one another. so that is not in doubt. but we should both do everything we can to see that war never starts again. [bianna] a lot of the tension going into these meetings, the agenda that was set, the topics that each side was going to bring up and discuss, was known ahead of time. in large part thanks to the messages that were received and delivered by oleg gordievsky. [narrator] the visit is a success. gorbachev and thatcher find common ground. thatcher immediately flies out to make the case to reagan. [camera shutters click] [susan eisenhower] imagine, in 1983 ronald reagan said that the soviet union was an evil empire. and then margaret thatcher says to mikhail gorbachev this is a man she can do business with. what an extraordinary shift. and, of course, ronald reagan was not only an admirer and a friend of margaret thatcher, but he really respected her viewpoint on this. and she gave him some political cover to begin to look at the changes that were underway in the soviet union and take them more seriously. [narrator] while chernenko is leader, full dialogue with the soviets remains a long way off. her approval of gorbachev legitimizes reagan s desire to approach the soviet leadership himself. and he is intrigued by her very well-informed insights. but the cia wants to know exactly who is keeping the british one step ahead. [bianna] the cia had this we are holier than thou position, and thus have the right to have access to all of the information that we would like. and so they were itching to find out, who is this mystery spy? [narrator] ames and his colleagues scour the list of soviet diplomats in london who had worked in denmark. [narrator] ames now knows the double agent who s been swaying thatcher and reagan s thinking. unbeknownst to oleg, there was a growing list of people in the cia who were aware of him, his background, what he was doing, and his exact identity. [narrator] and if the cia can work out who the mole is, how long until the kgb finds out? the more people who know the name of a source, the more imperiled the source becomes. if his secret is betrayed to the kgb, it s a bullet to the back of the head. the risk for gordievsky is death.
shell. powering progress. defensive democracy. president biden is about an hour from landing in philadelphia tonight after playing paying a march to fallen world war i heroes at a cemetery in france. congressman jerry conley of the house foreign affairs committee joins me to discuss the study in contrast with implications for global stability. inside the biden campaign with the re-election effort in full swing in the first presidential debate a few weeks away, adrian elrod, campaign senior adviser and spokesperson is here to talk about the biden-harris game plan ahead. former congressman joe walsh, former congressman donna edwards and andrew of punch bowl news will weigh in on everything from donald trump s interview tomorrow to notable comments on the and other sunday shows and you know we are going to discuss this disparaging comment from rudy giuliani about fulton county d.a. fani willis. i have two prosecutors. i am jonathan capehart. this is the sunday show. president biden is flying back from france at this hour after a five-day trip highlighting america s fight for freedom and democracy abroad . biden began his visit with a d speech at the site of the day honoring the soldiers who stormed the beaches of normandy, and defeated fascism. earlier today, the president stopped by the world war i cemetery outside paris where he praised the nato alliance that has secured peace for the past eight decades. mr. president, what do you hope americans take away? the knowledge that the best way to avoid these kinds of battles in the future is to stay strong with our allies. do not break. do not break. 80 years of relative peace, especially in europe, is a historical admiration. we have been able to maintain this piece because of institutions like nato, created with and sustained by leadership in the united states and presidents from both parties. we cannot take this peace and world order for granted. biden s remarks were also a clear rebuke to donald trump and the selfishness he is shown on the world stage. in 2018, trump infamously refused to enter the cemetery where biden spoke today. the atlantic reportedend quote, trump rejected the idea of the visit because he feared his hair would become disheveled in the rain and because he did not believe it important to honor american war dead. trump said, why should i go to that cemetery? it s filled with losers. former white house chief of staff john kelly, a retired four-star marine general, also confirmed that conversation to cnn, but trump denies it ever happened, calling the story quote, made up, at a rally in las vegas today. he also complimented hungarian strongman victor or bond and shared his own dark vision of the world order. the world is going to look up to us with respect. they re not going to be laughing at us. they right now are laughing at us. your closer right now to world war iii than you ve ever been in this is no longer army tanks going back and forth. these are nuclear weapons the likes of which, and the power of which has never ever been seen before. trumps fear mongering about nuclear war comes less than 24 hours before he will be sitting down with a probation officer in new york. nbc news has the reporting that trump will be interviewed tomorrow as part of the presentencing requirements for his criminal conviction. as biden prepares for g-7 summit in italy this week, trump will be focused on securing his own freedom because as dana milbank writes in the washington post today, trump is serving the highest cause he knows, himself. joining me now is democratic congressman jerry connolly of virginia, member of the house foreign affairs committee and senior member of the house oversight committee. as always, thank you very much for coming to the sunday show. let s start with breaking news out of israel for a key rival of israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, opposition leader benny gantz, just resigned from israel s war cabinet. what could this mean for cease- fire negotiations? i hope it puts more pressure on netanyahu to agree to his own government s proposal for a cease-fire agreement that president biden has been championing. i think the loss of gantz really fractures unity in israel at a time when it desperately needs it but i do think and hope it puts political pressure on netanyahu to end the fighting and the killing, and come to an agreement so hostages can be released and civilians can try to restore their lives. hundreds of palestinians were killed in the raid that rescued was four israeli hostages yesterday. , and that impact negotiations? the initial response in israel is celebration at the release of four hostages who have been there for eight months . that is to be celebrated, but the loss of life incurred in doing that is something that i think is horrifying, and i would hope the israeli military and the israeli government take a moment of reflection about the high cost of their operations generally in gaza. one more question on israel before we turn to domestic issues. there is also talk of opening up another front in the north to deal with hezbollah in lebanon. would that be a wise thing for israel to do? i am not a military adviser but i think israel has its hands full right now with the operations in gaza and the occupation of the west bank to open up really a third front on the lebanese border with hezbollah, i think, would really tax the israeli military in ways that go back to rivaling the war of 1973, and i hope it can be avoided. let s turn our attention stateside. mckay [ inaudible ] reports about how terrified europe is of a second trump presidency reading quote, one word came up again and again when i asked european officials about the stakes of the election. existential. but here s what senator tom cotton had to say about ending the current war on european soil in ukraine. the way to have peace in europe and for that matter, peace and stability around the world is to remove joe biden from the white house on election day this year and return donald trump. that is how we will get back to peace and stability. congressman, why shouldn t europeans be afraid with comments like that? they should be and they are. i ve been very involved in the legislative arm of nato for the last decade plus, and i can tell you i have never seen the europeans as anxious about american politics as they are right now. everything is at stake and as you indicated, nato, ironically, house work. it s kept the peace for most of 80 years. it is the one thing putin respects. he will not cross the nato border because of article five it says an attack on one his attack on all of us and we mean it. he has respected that. he has respected nothing else in this war but that so to call into question the viability on the utility and the efficacy of nato when it is working and we have a war going on is really reckless, and i don t think any european is going to turn to tom cotton for advice as we go forward. we should point out that article five is been invoked only once in nato s history, and that was to protect the united states after the terrorist attacks of 9/11. meanwhile, far right parties have made significant gains in elections today so much so that french president macron announced today that he would dissolve the nation s parliament and call for snap elections and this is significant because his current term does not end until 2027. are the far right forces gaining record support in europe as much a threat as a trump 2.0 in washington? i think there is a lot of variety among what is generically called the right in europe. the right in italy is very different than the right in germany and austria and on and on. obviously it is alarming to see this kind of far right parties make gains in european elections. european elections sometimes are a second vote for europeans, so they might not vote for the people who govern their own country but it is kind of a free vote, a way of expressing dissatisfaction with the status quo. obviously it reflects deep concern about the immigration issue in europe and we have to take note of that and respect that as a potent issue going forward. potent issue in europe, but does that also mean americans should look at what is happening in europe, american officials look at what is happening in europe and taking? yes. we can t afford to ignore what s happening in europe. that does not necessarily mean exactly that will happen here but it does not mean nothing. it is resonating with voters and we ve got to take cognizance of that. jerry connolly, member of the house foreign affairs committee and senior member of the house oversight committee, thanks for coming to the sunday show. joining me now, barbara walter, professor of relations at the university of california, san diego, she is the author of how civil wars started how to stop them. thank you very much for coming back to the sunday show. so, is it me or does it feel to you that trumps rhetoric of revenge and vengeance has kicked into a whole new gear, and how significant is it that his high-ranking followers are openly calling for the prosecution of trumps so-called enemies? well, the evidence is very clear. if you go back and listen to tapes and watch videos of trump in 2016, he is a very different person today and what he is saying is different than in 2016. he is much more aggressive. he is using much more negative, hate-filled, threatening language. it is like he is a bully on steroids today whereas he was not in 2016, and one of the things we also know from lots of research is that rhetoric matters, especially violent rhetoric, that if you have leaders who begin to normalize the idea that violence is legitimate, that their supporters believe it and some of them actually follow through with it, so it s not agnostic. it s not a game. this is not something that has no repercussions. if you have somebody like trump , who so many people idolize and his so many people believe is their hero and who is going to save them and he s telling them that the only way to save america is through violence, the only way that they won t be in danger is if they take back their country, they are going to believe him. the washington post has a front-page story about the former trump director who wrote in a 2022 essay quote, we are living in a post-constitutional time. according to the time, that quote has helped craft proposals for donald trump to deploy the military to quash civil unrest, sees more control over the justice department and assert the power to withhold congressional appropriations and that is just on trump s first day back in office. barbara, why should americans be very concerned about this? again, history tells us a lot. it used to be that the way autocrats came to power in democracies was through military coups. they got the military to help them, but that is not the case in the 21st century. today, the most likely way an autocrat can take control of democracy is through essentially legal means. they play the democratic game. they get elected. they build a base. they tell people that they are going to save them from all these bad things that could happen to them. they convince them that democracy maybe isn t the best system. it s not efficient, not effective, not serving them, then they slowly withdraw the guardrails of democracy in one of the reasons why trump is so in awe of victor orban, the leader of hungary, is that he is really the very first 21st- century leader to do this, and he did it masterfully. it is almost as if he wrote the book on it, and trump has met with him a number of times, and i suspect that one of the things they are talking about is how we can do this in the united states, and we know that organizations like the heritage foundation have crafted very lengthy manuals for how the republican party can do this in 2024 if trump wins. right, and it s called project 25 out of the heritage foundation. barbara, thank you very much for coming to the sunday show. coming up, the view from inside president biden s re- election campaign. adrian elrod, senior adviser and spokesperson for the biden- harris campaign joins me in studio to talk about their strategy on contentious issues like border security, the economy and the war in gaza. plus, how drag performers are helping lead the charge on attacks against the lgbtq+ community. you are watching the sunday show on msnbc. you are watching show on msnbc. if you re living with hiv, imagine being good to go without daily hiv pills. good to go unscripted. good to go on a whim. with cabenuva, there s no pausing for daily hiv pills. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete, long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month. it s two injections from a healthcare provider. just 6 times a year. don t receive cabenuva if you re allergic to its ingredients, or if you re taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions, post-injection reactions, liver problems, and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have liver or kidney problems, mental health concerns and if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. some of the most common side effects include injection-site reactions, fever, and tiredness. with cabenuva, you re good to go. ask your doctor about switching. i told myself i was ok with my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis symptoms. with my psoriatic arthritis symptoms. but just ok isn t ok. and i was done settling. if you still have symptoms after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel, rinvoq is different and may help. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that can rapidly relieve joint pain, stiffness, and swelling in ra and psa. relieve fatigue. and stop further joint damage. and in psa, can leave skin clear or almost clear. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin; heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor have an increased risk of death. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. done settling? ask your rheumatologist for rinvoq. and take back what s yours. abbvie could help you save. norman, bad news. i never graduated from med school. what? -but the good news is. xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal. i know. faster wifi and savings? .i don t want to miss that. that s amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? shell renewable race fuel. reducing emissions by 60%. we re moving forward with indycar. because we re moving forward with everybody. shell. powering progress. president biden is due to philadelphia in the next hour after his visit to france. president biden s return home means a return to the campaign trail and the issues top of mind for voters this november, from the economy to immigration to the humanitarian crisis in gaza and then there is the conundrum that is his opponent, donald trump. joining me now, adrian elrod, senior spokesperson for the biden-harris campaign. welcome to the sunday show. the campaign has launched a new ad that focuses on defending american democracy. joe biden has made defending our basic freedoms the cause of his presidency, and he is running for re-election to finish the job to protect the freedom for women to make their own health care decisions, the freedom for our children to be safe from gun violence, the freedom to vote and have your vote counted. under joe biden, the sun will not set on this flight. american democracy will not break. oh adrian, this message worked really well during the 2022 midterms. do you expect it to have the same impact in november when it s a presidential election year? yes, i think so. part of what we wanted to emphasize in that ad is under president biden, you have the freedom to live under democracy. you have the freedom to make your own economic decisions. before trump put three pro-life supreme court justices on the court we women have the freedom to make our own reproductive health decisions. that freedom was taken away solely because of donald trump s a part of what that is doing is connecting the dots. we currently have the freedom to live under a democracy but if donald trump steps back into the white house, democracy will be at risk and when you saw president biden, who had an incredible week overseas honoring our following fallen and the 80th anniversary of d-day, how american allies in america fought to protect democracy across the world is a smart risk now than it ever was. now weaving all of these things together, talking about the freedoms we have in the president biden and the freedoms we won t have if trump wins the election, that is core to this campaign, and you will continue to hear that message throughout the next five months. while the president was in france yesterday, thousands of palestinian protesters rallied outside the white house urging the president to halt military aid to israel. how are these protests waiting on the campaign? first of all president biden, unlike former president trump, supports freedom of speech and expression. these protesters are exercising their right. that being said, we understand it the challenge. president biden is certainly fighting for every vote. he s not taking anything for granted but this is the freedom people have. they have the right to protest. they have the right to speak their mind. is not going to take anything for granted and it s important to keep in mind during these challenging times on the foreign policy front, on the global front, can you imagine having donald trump back in the white house trying to manage all this? president biden is a seasoned foreign-policy pro-who served as the chair on the senate foreign relations committee for a long time. he has these relationships with world leaders that go deep so we are going to be reinforcing the fact that is an important attribute the president has. at the same time we are working hard for every single vote. one thing that is going to make getting every vote a little problematic is the president s new executive action on the border which temporarily halts asylum requests once the average number of daily encounters tops 2500 at points of entry and it is drawing criticism from all quarters on both sides of the aisle. are you afraid of alienating progressive voters who argue that this policy is too harsh? no, we are not because here is the bottom line. republicans in congress did not act because their supreme leader donald trump said you can t. we will not pass the most historic bipartisan bill that has come forward in congress for 10 years because they did not want joe biden to have a win. they did not want him to have a political wins a president biden has to use every lover he can in the white house to do something about the border. americans know, democrats and republicans understand that there is a crisis of the border and asked to get solved but if congress is not going to act, if republicans in congress are going to block products progress on this than president biden is going to use every level at his disposal to try to make some change so this was an important executive action last week. it is something that has to take place and it is unfortunate that congress won t act. hopefully they will. there is still time to come to the table. that s where we are. okay, great economic news for the country, particularly the president. unemployment remains below 4%, but what guidance importers biden supporters are complaining about is that they are not hearing some of these things. reporter: you re not the first person who told me that the president is not necessarily communicating his accomplishments. why do you think he s not doing that? he needs to do better at basically putting it in people s faces. i accomplished this. i did this and the benefits you have now or because of me and my administration. that needs to be clear because i don t think many people do know what he has actually gotten done. so the question is this. is it that you re not communicating, or you are not breaking through when you do communicate, and if it is the latter, how are you going to breakthrough? she just did a really great job. i don t have to tell you this. it is really hard to breakthrough in the cycle. that s why we are using surrogates and taking our message to the voters. we have an aggressive digital strategy working with surrogates to get that message out but at the same time, everything president biden has accomplished, record gdp growth, record unemployment, the 15 million jobs he s created under his presidency, we understand americans are still hurting. prices are still too high which is why he is really making the case that in a second term is going to continue to work hard to lower prices and drug cost unlike donald trump, who has no economic plan. the first presidential debate is in three weeks, june 27th. i m not convinced trump is going to show up. are you already planning for that possibility? we are showing up. i can t speak for what he s going to do but president biden is showing up and looking forward to this conversation. he has a lot of things to talk to donald trump about and is looking forward to having a major platform to tell the american people. thank you very much for coming to the sunday show. coming up, donald trump s first official rally since his criminal conviction just one day before his first meeting with a new york probation officer. my panel is studio will weigh in on that and more, next on the sunday show. the sunday sho. and while we re still miles from the lake, i m gonna launch this boat right here. see ya. 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[traffic noises] so get allstate, save money on auto insurance and be protected from mayhem. yeah, like me. so this is pickleball? it s basically tennis for babies, but for adults. it should be called wiffle tennis. pickle! yeah, aw! whoo! these guys are intense. we got nothing to worry about. with e trade from morgan stanley, we re ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i d rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled. that s a pretty good burn, right? got him. good game. thanks for coming to our clinic, first one s free. it s time to get away and cash in at cache creek casino resort. thanks for coming to our clinic, to rock and to roll. to go all out or go all in with four stars and rising stars. northern california s premier casino resort is the perfect place to do as much. or as little as you want. make your getaway now and cache in at cache creek casino resort. tomorrow, another dubious first for donald trump. he is scheduled for a new york interview with a probation officer, required as part of trump s presentencing report after being found guilty on all 34 counts in his manhattan criminal trial. today, trump was in las vegas for his first official rally since his conviction, and once again, the perpetually aggrieved queens born builder played the victim and projectionist as he falsely accuse the biden administration of doing things we all know he is itching to do if he gets another chance in the white house. the only way he can get elected is to cheat but this time they are using weaponization of department of justice going to see the local d.a.s, going to see the attorney general s to cheat. joining me now, former republican congressman joe walsh of illinois, now an independent, and director of the social contract. former congresswoman donna edwards of maryland and senior congressional reporter at punch bowl. thank you all very much for coming back to the sunday show. okay, i m going to leave you out of this right now, amber. joe and donna, your reaction to donald trump saying the only way he can get elected this to cheat, about president biden. i love to be with you on the set in on this show and we have fun. jonathan, this is scary and dangerous and i don t want to smile and laugh about it. there was an insurrection 3 1/2 years ago that he incited, and he s doing the same thing this year. he is lying to his voters and he wants there to be violence again if he loses. we can t normalize this. donna, i m assuming you agree. looks, i totally agree with what joe has said in the scary part about this is that it is not only donald trump but all his surrogates who are echoing the same crying about the election and i think while it would be fun to laugh and smile about this, this is really serious and could lead to real violence yet again. i want to show what congresswoman elise stefanik had to say on fox news. she said the trial was rigged and is shredding our democracy yada yada yada. this is shredding our democracy. the mainstream media and democrats accuse the right but it is really democrats who are attacking our democracy and the american people know that this was rigged from the start and it is an affront to us. former president trump is correct that the real verdict will be rendered this november on election day when former president trump wins overwhelmingly. andrew, i play that because everyone is talking about four men who are potentially on donald trump s shortlist but to my mind, who we just saw, that, to my mind, so i think donald trump is going to pick. does that hold any water in what you re hearing around the capital? for sure. you see many of these potential running mates for donald trump going on tv, rushing to defend him and his various cases and advancing some of the same arguments. i agree that she is probably a top contender. on capitol hill the conversation usually centers around people like senator tim scott or jd vance. some conversations involve senator marco rubio, as well. there is the question of him having florida residency and former president trump having florida residency in this arcane role for the top of the ticket in the vice presidential nominee cannot be from the same state technically so how do you address that issue constitutionally but he is in the conversation. elise stefanik is out there doing this because she wants to be trump s vice presidential nominee. she is someone who came up in the republican party is someone viewed as a moderate, someone who will change the face of the party. she started this organization, winning for women, a republican women s group supporting candidates across the country that were more moderate, more centrist talking about issues that are more appealing to suburban women voters, for example, that republicans have lost out on in the last few elections and you see the transformation in real-time here. yes, huge transformation. you invoke the name of another person auditioning for terms vpn that is senator tim scott. listen to what he claims would happen if donald trump wins re- election. protecting law and justice is job one for president trump. he will not target his political opponents. he were fire merrick garland and restore confidence in the department of justice. for real, he will not target his political opponents? this week all he said was oh you know, i might have to get revenge. come on. every time he speaks i don t recognize who he is but to end this point, i don t know who the vp pick is going to be but it will be somebody who is going to have to lie about the election and say that donald trump is a victim right now who will weaponize the justice department. that s the job requirement. tim scott is just like all these republican vp wannabes, and they are going down to the very bottom to defend donald trump to say that he is saying things that he doesn t say. donald trump himself has said how he s going to weaponize the department of justice. we are not making that up. those are his own words so i think these republicans are trying to clean up donald trump s act but it is really not working. i want to squeeze in one more potential vp nominee. this is congressman byron donalds at the town hall event. this is a change my mind, not element seven, element six. watch this. during jim crow, more black people were not just conservative but more black people voted conservatively. the congressman went on with reverend sharpton yesterday and they got into, you know, shouting match with byron donalds saying i didn t say that i m not going to sit here and have you lie. we just saw that. why can you byron donalds post a video of himself saying that during jim crow over 4000 fathers, brothers, mothers, sisters were lynched. during jim crow, people s rights were taken away from them. during jim crow, black families were terrorized across the south. byron donalds, i don t know what vision what version of america he is living but it is not a version many of our parents and grandparents would recognize. i want to give a shout out to my colleagues who did a masterful job interviewing him and pointing out all those things. my sound off panel is going to stay with us. don t go anywhere. we are going to discuss rudy giuliani s crazy comment about fani willis. with bounce pet, you can cuddle and brush that hair off. bounce, it s the sheet. 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[music playing] back with me, former congressman joe walsh, former congressman donna edwards and andrew punch bowl. i teased this at the top of the show. listen to this from rudy giuliani. then i ve got two prosecutors. fanny the how now, fani is not fawn ee. really what giuliani did there is just so repugnant. it is. it is the constant dehumanizing of black women i think black women see that. i think all women see that for what it is. it s really disgusting. i would say it s beneath rudy giuliani but apparently nothing is beneath him. i come from the right. i come from right-wing media. i engaged in staff i would love to take back. it is the cruelty. just call it for what it is. the cruelty cells right now, sadly, with the republican party base. that is just ugly, and will quickly on this, what comes to my mind, why don t we see elected officials in the capital running out and condemning that language or language of retribution or anything, or is it they don t say anything because the cruelty is the point. this is what trump wants and this is what we are getting. members of congress, particularly republicans in the senate, i think, are more afraid of the base than they ever have been before. they are afraid to criticize remarks like this. they are afraid to do anything that would upset the people who got them into office even though they themselves don t personally agree with that type of rhetoric, with that sort of using those words, so it is that fear to condemn someone who is so, you know, he loves by the base of the party and the people who sent them to congress, and that is sort of the push and pull we are seeing right now in the republican party more one direction than the other but you have people like mitt romney not running for re-election. he calls the stuff out readily but he is an outcast in the republican party, almost like he was never the 2012 republican nominee for president. he is an outcast. he s leaving the senate. there are few, if any, left of his breed of republican after the election. right well, i mean lindsay graham used to be that breed but he is totally transformed. tomorrow is a big day for former president trump. he has his meeting with a probation officer. real quickly, let s play the former corrections commissioner marty horn, of new york city, how he described it. we use the term. we call it, is this individual amenable to supervision. that means is he or she receptive to accepting the restrictions that are placed upon them, in the event they are placed on probation. will they comply with the rules, or are they people who are likely to violate the rules? all right. you already know what i m going to ask. none of this applies to trump. absolutely no remorse. he is not following the rules. my great fear is, though, he s going to be sentenced to prison and become even a bigger martyr than he is now. i spent a lot of time in criminal court reading pre- sentence reports. it s hard to imagine that trump is going to do anything that really mitigates in front of the judge for sentencing and i think a probation officer is going to have to conclude that this is a man who will not abide by the rules of probation that are set for him. well i mean, he doesn t have to go to jail. can t they put him under house arrest? there are a lot of options but it still means he will be, on some level, on probation and the question is, is he going to comply with those rules and the answer is no. and he wanted and he will scream he s a victim. let s keep in mind, rules on travel and things, you have to get permission to leave but also, he can associate with anyone who has a criminal record. his entourage is lousy with convicted criminals. s entourage, his campaign operation, hard to imagine he would be able to agree to even that simple rule. okay. no time to keep going. former congressman joe walsh, don edwards, thank you very much for coming to the sunday show. when we come back, how performers are fighting back against the taxon drag entertainment. drag entertainment. hollywood white . new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it s a great product. it s going to help a lot of patients. my mental health was better. but uncontrollable movements called td, tardive dyskinesia, started disrupting my day. td felt embarrassing. i felt like disconnecting. i asked my doctor about treating my td, and learned about ingrezza. ingrezza ingrezza is clinically proven for reducing td. most people saw results in just two weeks. people taking ingrezza can stay on most mental health meds. only number-one prescribed ingrezza has simple dosing for td: always one pill, once daily. ingrezza can cause depression, suicidal thoughts, or actions in patients with huntington s disease. pay close attention to and call your doctor if you become depressed, have sudden changes in mood, behaviors, feelings, or have thoughts of suicide. don t take ingrezza if you re allergic to its ingredients. ingrezza may cause serious side effects, including angioedema, potential heart rhythm problems, and abnormal movements. report fevers, stiff muscles, or problems thinking as these may be life threatening. sleepiness is the most common side effect. take control by asking your doctor about ingrezza. ingrezza we really don t want people to think of feeding food like ours is spoiling their dogs. good, real food is simple. it looks like food, it smells like food, it s what dogs are supposed to be eating. no living being should ever eat processed food for every single meal of their life. it s amazing to me how many people write in about their dogs changing for the better. the farmer s dog is just our way to help people take care of them. shingles. some describe it as an intense burning sensation. or an unbearable itch. this painful blistering rash could also disrupt your work and time with family. shingles could also lead to long term, debilitating nerve pain that can last for months or even years. if you re over 50, the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. 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( ) don t wait. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingles today. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with all the money i saved i thought i d buy stilts. being so tall definitely has its advantages. oh whoa. here you go, kiddo. thanks. hi honey ready to go? yup. there it is, there it is. ahhh.here we go. i guess it also has some disadvantages. yes it does. only pay for what you need. liberty. liberty. liberty, liberty. pride weekend is wrapping up here in washington, d.c. after thousands turned out for the annual parade yesterday, but beyond the festivities of pride month, there is also a focus on protecting lgbtq rights. a new coalition of drag kings and queens has formed a group called committee, to support drag artist who is experienced targeted hate. this week the group filed a petition to the fbi and dhs to monitor any threats that may occur during this year s pride events. last year s event saw a spike in hate and violence. at least 145 incidents of harassment, vandalism and assault were reported. another example of why committees are so necessary right now. turning right joining me right now is the president of committee, what you hope to achieve in the long run? we hope to support organizations on the ground that are doing a lot of work already. a lot of our members are allegedly active at fighting back against hate and violence and we want to be a central hub of resources to help there in the fight. last month dhs and the state department issued travel advisories but did not specify where or who might be planning attacks. the organization came out with a petition asking for protection this month. so far we ve gotten about 11,000 signatures within a couple of days of its launch, and through this, we hope to really implore law enforcement agencies to not only take the matter more seriously but reach out to organizations like ours to help and to give us more resources we can use to protect ourselves. you know, the pushback against pride month is not anything new, but does this year feel different? you know, things get a little more hype when it is election time. people come out of the woodwork. they want someone to blame and the lgbtq community is a very easy target. i feel like it is cyclical. it comes around every four years. speaking of cyclical and every four years, just this week, the colorado republican party is facing backlash after an email criticizing the lgbtq community and calling supporters of our rights quote, godless groomers. they are also calling for all pride flags to be burned. what are your thoughts about that because that is one of. examples of anti-lgbtq sentiment in the country. it sounds like the ramblings and someone who is at risk of losing his seat at the table. every time a political leader wants to bolster support, he finds some kind of scapegoat. this email is verbal pitchforks and torches and for it to happen in a place like colorado where the club shooting occurred, there were 25 injuries, five murders in that incident you know, these are the exact kind of sentiments that embolden people to then go out and commit crimes like that, and it is our job in the committee and another organizations, to try and give support to those who might be targeted by this kind of hatred. wow. thank you very much for being here and bringing your message, and what the qomittee is working on. thank you. more of the sunday show here on msnbc after a break. on msnbc after a break. to prer respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. i chose arexvy. rsv? make it arexvy. craig here pays too much for verizon wireless. so he sublet half his real estate office. 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