It's not child abuse in his mind. it's collaborating with madness. essentially these parents are going to all these shrinks and psychiatrists and psychologists and all this business and they are hearing all sorts of things but the one message that they clung on to was the one message from a realm of psychiatry that said, you know what? yes, let them become the boy. let catherine become the boy. let him grow as a boy and, you know, is he work himself out. the problem is that these parents will eventually start giving this child hormones which will change his features. go ahead. >> bill: there i...