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Still working on this project, and what is the role of the fbi? a lot of questions for us to understand how the president was compromised. what are the risk to our country as a result of the president being compromised? >> kim, what i was struck by was the bullying tactic of the president. it was almost like al capone. he better not go -- he doesn't have any authority in the institution over this guy mueller. he has no right to tell him what to say. >> i think he is scared, because robert mueller, if he could speak freely could really powerfully criticize the president in a way that almost no ...

Rudy giuliani said he twisted the judge's words somewhat to suggest he was punishing robert mueller's team for overreach, that mueller's team suggested a stiffer sentence for manafort, the fact the judge only gave him four years was proof that the special counsel was out of bounds. and clearly trying to sort of lay that groundwork to make a similar claim for whenever the mueller report is finally released and the white house has to deal with that. >> seems to me last night the judge was saying the enemy of my enemy is my friend. i don't like this guy mueller, i'm going to reward manafort. anyw...

He's committed white collar krum. a very easy argument to sell. >> anyway, in doing it secretly. mueller's prosecutors said yesterday that manafort did not fully cooperate, saying quote he told us things we already knew. he did not provide valuable information or cooperation. and it's providing speculation. trump attorney rudy giuliani tells nbc news a pardon isn't being considered at this time. he's not ruling one in or out. when asked about a pardon earlier today, trump also side stepped. >> i don't even discuss it. the only one discussing it is you. >> take a big bite out of this apple.

Putting outmistruths and pray apau upon members of the american public and when handed something like this yesterday the president is giuliani have really seized on it to take a swipe at the special counsel. rudy giuliani said he twisted them somewhat to suggest he was punishing robert mueller's team for over reach. they had suggested a much stiffer sentence for manafort. the fact the judge only gave him four years, in giuliani's estimation was proof that the special counsel was out of bounds. so when the report is release can -- >> it seems to me the judge was saying the enemy of the enemy is...

Seized upon in the political sphere to go after particular people in part of this investigation. >> let me give you one angle here that nobody's talking about about that barr exchange, and that is when jeff sessions was there, the president could claim there's one guy mueller with a bunch of random democrats running an investigation. this is a comey moment. you fire comey, you get mueller. you dump sessions because sessions isn't involved in the investigation, you can't say my nominee is overseeing the investigation. you get barr who just basically said when i see this stuff, i'm going to brin...