also expect the president to address russia s annexation of crimea? reporter: probably so just because this dominated the discussion so much. the g-7 meeting which was held as a part of the nuclear security summit wasn t really, the move wasn t originally part of the plan. it wasn t because of the esflepevents that happened in ukraine. suspending with the biggest economies in the world. russia was supposed to host in june in sochi. it is a big step. the question, though, is, specially among critics, will this have any effect? the u.s.ed administration, other countries repeatedly said, there is still a door open to discussion, to a diplomatic solution. there is a chance for deescalation. we can change things if russia decides to change course. for everything that has been said and all the talks that have been held, not only among western countries but talks with russia, nothing has changed that course. so it remains to be seen now what could constitute escalation for additional and more damaging sanctions to be issued and what could be deescalation. we ask that question yesterday. michelle, we re going to jump out. the president has now taken the stage with the prime minister of the netherlands. the two men are addressing the congregated press there. let s listen to what they are saying. i am proud to present our summit communique to you today. building of the progress remains early in washington and seoul. this communique sets the bar even higher. we have taken major steps towards meeting all three main objectives of the nss process. i will say a few words about each. the first objective is to reduce the amount of dangerous nuclear material in the world. the less dangerous nuclear material there is and the better the nuclear security, the smaller the chance that terrorists will be able to get hold of it. it s that simple. i m pleased that the 53 countries and four international organizations here have confirmed their commitment to continue reducing stocks of dangerous nuclear material, uranium and plutonium. a number of countries have announced the intention to hand over the highly dangerous to the u.s. as xhar chair of the summit, i naturally welcome these announcements. we are also making progress on the second objective, improving the security of nuclear and radioactive material. we have confirm our ambition to improve the security of materials that can be used to make nuclear weapons and the security of radiological sources that terrorists could use to make dirty bombs. the commitment of the nsa became more complete. the fear that the dirty bomb would cause doesn t bear thinking about, not to mention the possible disruption to society. i m specially pleased that we are including this area. furthermore, the nss countries have encouraged implementation of the iaa nuclear security guidelines. a significant number of us have decided to take this commitment even further. as chair of the summit, i m delighted to announce that two thirds of the countries on the initiative of the united states, korea and the netherlands, have pledged to incorporate these important recommendations into the national legislation. this is a message and represents potential progress. i can t stress enough how important it is. fortunately, in a group of countries supporting this initiative is growing. our ultimate goal is, of course, for all nss countries to follow this league and set an example for other countries. he many pleas i am pleased with the growing awareness of nuclear material. it is important to determine the origin of the material and trace that. we are listening. michelle kosinski, i wanted to bring you in briefly before president obama speaks. the president will also probably at some point have to address a rather large domestic issue which is brewing. the white house plans to change and modify and in some ways do away with the current system of the nsa collecting telephone data. can you explain what this change will be? reporter: yes. feel free to cut me off when this starts again. there is a delay in what i can see and here. we wonder how much this issue came up in discussions with other european nations also. during this series of meetings. it has been this highly controversial, really played out in the media, irritation, of how much spying was gone on. similar, was overplayed. it came out later that we know that the u.k., germany, other european countries do this same kind of data collection as well as spying. here is what the president wants to do. he has been working with congress. soon, in the coming days, his administration says, he wants to propose a law that would change the way this is done. right now, the nsa is the one that collects this bulk data, phone records, that americans make on a day it day basis. they keep it for five years. what s been highly controversial in the past is that the nsa can essentially choose its own investigations and authorize them. the president wants the phone companies to collect the data and keep it possibly. although, that might be done by some third party. the administration didn t make that clear. the president wants it such to be such that the nsa would have to go to a judge for every search it would want to do. that judge would have to say yes or no as to whether that specific phone number could be likely tied to terrorism. there are some other changes too. keep in mind, this is a proposed piece of legislation. what it would do would take the nsa out of the business of collecting and storing the data. of core, turse, the nsa would s be able to gain access to the data when needed. the bigger question is, will congress pass this law? how long could that take? in the meantime, the president has authorized for 90 days an will continue in 90-day increments to authorize the collection and the processing of that data as it stands right now. the president is about to speak now. let s go back to the the hague to listen to president obama. i would like to say a few words about the tragedy that recently took place back in the united states. over the weekend, a massive landslide swept through a tiny town called oso in washington state. while i won t get ahead of the ongoing response and rescue operations, we know that part of this tightly knit community has been lost. first responders acted bravely despite still dangerous conditions. the american red cross has opened multiple shelters and the people of washington state have been quick to help and comfort their fellow citizens. i just spoke to governor insly who swiftly declared a state of emergency and i signed that emergency declaration to make sure he has got all the resources he needs from my administration. they are in contact with them on an on going basis, fema and the army core of engineers has been on site to offer their assistance and expertise. i would ask all americans to send their thoughts and prayers to washington state and the community, oso, and the families and friends of those who continue to be missing. we hope for the best but we recognize this is a tough situation. now, as for our work here in the hague, i want to just repeat the extraordinary work that mark has done in helping to organize this. some of the people of the netherlands, your hospitality has been remarkable. your organization has been flawless. to all the people who were involved in putting this together, including those that are putting up with what i caused, i m told there is a dutch word that captures the spirit that doesn t translate exactly into english but let me say my first visit to the netherlands has been truly kozelik. i convened the first nuclear summit in washington four years ago, because i believed we need a series and sustained global effort to deal with one of the greatest threats to international security, the specter of nuclear terrorism. we made further progress at our second summit in seoul and under your prime minister s stewardship, we have built on that progress here. keeping with the spirits of these summits, this was not about vague commitments but about taking tangible and concrete steps to secure more of the world s nuclear material so it never falls in the hands of terrorists. in particular, i want to come mend bell judge and it will i for completing the removal of their excess supplies of uranium and plutonium. japan announced it will work with the united states to eliminate hundreds of kilograms of weapons from one of their experimental reactors. that s enough for dozens of nuclear weapons. dozens of other nations have agreed to take specific steps towards improving nuclear security in their own countries and to support our global efforts. some have pledged to convert their research reactors to low enriched uranium which cannot be used to make a bomb. we have set new goals for implemented or nuclear security measures, including sharing more information to ensure we are all living up to our commitments. i have made it clear the united states will continue to do our part. our nuclear regulator will develop new guidelines to strengthen cybersecurity at our nuclear power plants. we have pledged to pursue the production of a key medical isotope used to treat illnesses like cancer without relying on weapons useable materials and we are going to work to install more radiation detection equipment at ports and transit sites to combat nuclear smuggling. all of this builds on our previous efforts. 12 countries and two dozen nuclear facilities around the world have now rid themselves entirely of highly enriched uranium and plutonium. dozens of nations have boosted security or created new centers to improve nuclear security and training. the international atomic energy agency is now sfrotronger and m countries have ratified the treaties in international partnerships at the heart of our efforts. we have seepn a fundamental shit in our approach. we still have a lot more to do to ensure the ambitious goals we set years ago. i believe this is he sengs to the security of the entire world and given the catastrophic consequences of even a single attack, we can not be complacent. i ll clothes by reminding everybody that one of the achievements of our first summit in 2010 was ukraine s decision to remove all its highly enriched uranium from its nuclear fuel sites. had that not happen, those dangerous nuclear materials would still be there now and the difficult situation we are dealing with in ukraine today would involve yet another level of concern. so it s a vivid reminder that the more of this material we can secure, the safer all of our countries will be. we made progress. we have got more to do. we are going to continue our work. i look forward to hosting the fourth nuclear security summit in the united states in two years. thank you again, mark and all your team as well as the people of the netherlands for this outstanding summit. thank you, mr. president. we will go straight to the questions now. the first question will be the associate press. thank you, mr. president. you have been criticized during this dispute with russia as not understanding president putin s motivations. you and others said you thought putin was reflecting or pausing his encouragement to crimea. did you misread his intentions and what do you think his motivations are now? when you spoke about the nsa review in january, you said you weren t sold on the option of having phone companies hold meta-da ta and you thought it raised additional privacy concerns. what has changed since that time and do you think congress will pass the legislation you are seeking? mr. prime minister, there are leaders in europe who have concerns about the sector sanctions the president has proposed on russia s economy. do you think any of those leaders have had their concerns alleviated during their talks with the president over the past few days? thank you. let me see if i can remember all of these. with respect to president putin s motivation, there has been a lot of speculation. i am less interested in motivation and more interested in the facts and the principles that not only the united states but the entire international community are looking to uphold. i don t think that any of us have been under any illusion that russia has been very interested in controlling what happens to ukraine. that s not new. that s been the case for years now. that s been the case dating back to the orange revolution. what we have said consistently throughout this process is that it is up to the ukrainian people to make their own decisions about how they organize themselves and who they interact with. it has always been our belief that ukraine is going to have a relationship to russia. there is a strong historic bond between the two countries. that does not justify russia enroaching on ukraine s territorial integrity or sovereignty. that s exactly what s happened. i said, very early on, that should russia do so, there would be consequences. working with our european partners and our international partners, we have put in place sanctions that have already had some impact on the russian economy. now, moving forward, we have said and i want to be very clear about this, we north recognizing what has happened in crimea. the notion that a referendum sloppily organized over the course of two weeks would somehow justify the breaking off of the crimea and annexation by russia, somehow that would have a valid process. the overwhelming majority of the world rejects. we are also concerned about further encroachment by russia into ukraine. so what i announced and what the european council announced was that we were consulting and putting in place the framework, the architecture for additional sanctions, additional costs should russia take this next step. we also said and will continue to say is that there is another path available to russia. the ukrainian government has said it is prepared to negotiate with russia, that it is prepared to recognize its international obligations and the international community has been supportive of a diplomatic process. that would allow a deescalation of tensions, a moving back of russian troops from ukraine s borders. and rapidly organized elections that allow the ukrainian people to choose their leadership. my expectation is that if the ukrainian people are allowed to make their own decisions, their decision will be that they want to have a relationship with europe and they want to have a relationship with russia. this is not a zero sung game. i think that prime minister and the current government have shown remarkable strength and are prepared to go down the diplomatic path. it is now up to russia to act reresponsibly and show itself to be, once again, willing to abide by international rules and international norms. if it chooses to do so, i think there can be a better outcome. if it fails to do so, there will be additional costs. those will have some disruptive effect to the global economy but they will have the greatest impact on russia. so i think that would be a bad choice for president putin to make. ultimately, he is the president of russia and he is the one that s going to be making that decision. he just has to understand there is a choice to be made here. with respect to even though this was directed at mark, i just want to address this issue of sectoral sections. so far, we have put in place sa sanctions that impact individuals, restrict visas being issued to them, freezes their assets. we have identified one bank in particular in russia that was well-known to be the bank of choice for many of the persons who support and facilitate russian officials from carrying out some of these activities. what we have held off on are more broad-based sanctions that would impact entire sectors of the russian economy. it has not just been my suggestion but the european council s suggestion that should russia go further, such sectoral sanctions would be appropriate. that would include areas potentially like energy or finance or arms sales. or trade. that exists between europe and the united states and russia. what we are doing now at a very technical level, examining the impacts of each of these sanctions. some particular sanctions would hurt some countries more than others. all of us recognize that we have to stand up for a core principle. that lies at the heart of the international order and that facilitated the european union and the incredible prosperity and peace that europe has enjoyed now for decades. so although it could cause some disruptions to each of our economies or certain industries, what i ve been encouraged by is the firmness and the willingness on the part of all countries to look at ways in which they can participate in this process. our preference throughout will be to resolve this diplomatically. i think we are prepared, as we ve already shown, to take the next step, if the situation gets worse. finally, on ukraine, i think it is very important that we spend as much effort on bolstering the economy inside of ukraine and making sure that the elections proceed in an orderly fashion. so my hope is that the imf is able to complete a package for ukraine rapidly to stabilize their finances, their economy. . osce and other international organizations are sending in observers and monitors and we are providing technical assistants to make sure the elections are free and fair. the sooner the elections take place, the sooner the economy is stabilized, the better positioned the ukrainian people will be in terms of managing what is a very challenging situation. with respect to the nsa and i will be just brief on this, i said several months ago that i was assigning our various agencies in the i.c., the intelligence community, to bring me new options with respect to the telephone database program. they have presented me now with an option that i think is workable. it addresses the two core concerns the people have. number one, the idea of government storing bulk data generally. this ensures that the government is not in possession of that bulk data. i want to emphasize once again that some of the dangers that people high pott size when it came to bulk data, there were clear safeguards against but he recognize that people were concerned about what might happen in the future with that bulk data. this proposal that s been presented to me would eliminate that concern. the second thing the people were concerned about is making sure that not only is a judge in the program overall but looking at each individual inquiry that is made into a database. in new plan that s been presented to me does that. so overall i m confident that it allows us to do what is necessary in order to deal with the dangers of a nefarious attack and addresses the dangers that people have raised. i m looking forward to working with congress to make sure we go ahead and pass the enabling legislation quickly so that we can get on with the business of effective law enforcement. let me make it absolutely clear that the european union and the u.s. and yesterday we saw alignment within the summit. we are working very closely together. i can fully support all the answers which you just gave on the question you asked. maybe i can add one thing, which is the effect of the russian economy is very much gas and oil dependant. that means that economic sanctions, if they will be necessary, and we are not there yet, if economic sanctions would be necessary, because this conflict would escalate to the next stage, if this were to happen, these sanctions would hit russia very badly and obviously, you can never guarantee that the people in europe and canada, in the u.s., would not be hurt. obviously, with he will mae wil sure we will design these sanctions in such a way they will have maximum impact on the russian economy and not the european, the japanese, the american economy. we work very closely together and seek total alignment. next question. reportedly, there are about 30,000 russian troops on the border with ukraine. what guarantees can you give to the people of eastern ukraine and to the people in the baltic states, mole da va, other countries, that they will not be next when it comes to the russian politics of annex sayings. with regard to that also, is this a done deal? is there any doubt in your mind that putin will return crimea to where it belongs according to the west or is this diplomatic show of force basically to prevent another land grant somewhere else? on the second question first, on the issue of crimea, it is not a done deal in the sense that the international community by and large is not recognizing the annexation of crimea. the facts on the ground are that the russian military controls crimea. there are a number of individuals inside of crimea that are supportive of that process. there is no expectation that they will be dislodged by force. so what we can bring to bear are the legal arguments, the diplomatic arguments, the political pressure, the economic sanctions that are already in place to try and make sure that there is a cost to that process. i think it would be dishonest to suggest that there is a simple solution to resolving what has already taken place in crimea. although, history has a funny way of moving in twists and turns and not just in a straight line. so how the situation in crimea evolves in part depends on making sure the international community stays unified, indicating this was an illegal action on part of russia. with respect to the russian troops that are along the border of ukraine at the moment, right now, they are on russian soil. if they stay on russian soil, we oppose what appears to be an effort of intimidation by russia has a right legally to have its troops on its own soil. i don t think it is a done deal. i think that russia is still making a series of calculations. again, those calculations will be impacted in part by how unified the united states and europe are and the international community is in saying to russia, this is not how in the 21st century we resolve disputes. i think it is particularly important for all of us to dismiss this notion that somehow russian speakers or national inside of ukraine are threatened and that somehow that would justify russian action. there has been no evidence that russian speakers have been in any way threatened. if anything, what we have seen are provok coutours that have created scuffles inside ukraine. when i here analogy to kosovo where you had thousands of people who were being slaughtered by their government, it s a comparison that makes absolutely no sense. i think it is important for everybody to be clear and strip away some of the possible excuses for potential russian action. with respect to the broader issue of states that are bordering russia and what assurances do they have about future land grabs, as you put it, obviously, some of those countries are nato countries and as nato allies, we believe that the cornerstone of our security is making sure that all of us, including the united states, are abiding by article 5. the notion of collective defense. what we are not doing is organizing even more intensively to make sure that we have contingency plans and that every one of our nato allies has assurances that we will act in their defense against any threats. that s what nato is all about. that s been the cornerstone of peace in the transatlantic region now for several generations. so we will uphold that and there will be a series of nato consultations. it is going to be coming up in which we further develop and deepen those plans. i have not seen any nato members who have not expressed a firm determination with respect to nato members. now, those countries, border countries, that are outside of nato, what we can do, is what we are doing with ukraine, which is trying to make sure there is sufficient international pressure and a spotlight shined on the situation in some of these countries and that we are also doing everything we can to bolster their economies, make sure that through various diplomatic and economic initiatives that they feel supported and they know we stand by them. when it comes to a potential military response, that is defined by nato membership. that is what nato is about. jon karl from abc news. mr. president, thank you. in china, syria, and egypt and now in russia, we have seen you make strong statements, issue warnings that have been ignored. are you concerned that america s influence in the world, your influence in the world, is on the decline and in the light of recent developments, do you think mitt romney had a point when he said that russia is america s biggest geopolitical faux. if not russia, who? mr. prime minister, do you think these sanctions will change vladmir putin s calculation, cause him to back down? do you see where do you see a russian red line where if they go any further, into eastern ukraine and moldova where options beyond sanctions have to be considered? thank you. well, jonathan, i think if the premise of the question is that whenever the united states objects to an action and other countries don t immediately do exactly what we want, that that has been the norm. that would pretty much erase most of 20th century history. i think there is a distinction between us being very clear about what we think is an appropriate action, what we stand for, what principles we believe in versus what is, i guess, implied in the question, that we should engage in some sort of military action to prevent something. the truth of the matter is that the world has always been messy. what the united states has been consistently able to do and continue to be able to do is mobilize the international community around a set of principles and norms and where our own self-defense may not be involved. we may not act militarily. that does not mean that we don t steadily push against those forces that would violate those principles and eye deals we care about. so, yes, you are right. syria, the syrian civil war is not solved and yesterday syria has never been more isolated. with respect to the situation in ukraine, we have not gone to war with russia. i think there is a significant precedent to that in the past. that does not mean that russia is not isolated. in fact, russia is far more isolated in this instance than it was five years ago with respect to georgia and more isolated than it was certainly during most of the 20th century when it was part of the soviet union. the point is that they are always going to be bad things that happen around the world. the united states is the most powerful nation in the world. understandably, is looked to for solutions to those problems. we have put all evidence of our power behind solutions and working with our international powers. standing up for the principles and ideals in a clear way. there are going to be moments where military action is appropriate. there are going to be sometimes where that s not in the interest of national security interest of the united states or some of our partners. that doesn t mean we are not going to continue to make the effort or speak clearly about what we think is right and wrong. that s what we have done. with respect to mr. romney s assertion that russia is our number one geopolitical faux. the truth of the matter is that america has got a whole lot of challenges. russia is a regional power that is threatening some of its immediate neighbors. not out of strength but out of weakness. ukraine has been a country in which russia had enormous influence for decades, since the break up of the soviet union. we have considerable influence on our neighbors. we generally don t need to invade them in order to have a strong cooperative relationship with them. the fact that russia felt to go in militarily and lay bare these violations of international law indicates less influence, not more my response then continues to be what i believe today, which is, russia s actions are a problem. they don t pose the number one national security threat to the united states. i continue to be much more concerned when it comes to our security when with the prospect of a nuclear weapon going off in manhattan, which is part of the reason why the united states showing its continued international leadership has organized a form over the last several years that has been able to help eliminate that threat in a consistent way. there is no geopolitical conflict that can be solved without the united states. therefore, i applaud the fact that president obama s administration is active in every aarenrena. the initiatives that secretary kerry was taking in the middle east. i was in the region and spoke with leaders in israel and the palestinian territories. they are extremely grateful for the fact that america is providing leadership. this is a difficult issue. it can t be solved overnight. there is no magic wand that can handle this. i spoke with the president in the economic forum in january. we have now the fact that i was label to over 30, 40 years we spoke with an iranian leader. it was possible. it seems it is holding. america provided leadership there. i applaud president obama s role in all these major issues. it is necessary, because the united states is the leader of the free world and needs to provide leadership and he is doing that. your question on president putin, it would be difficult to exactly judge what is happening in the leadership in moscow, in russia at this moment. as i said earlier, i highly undiversified economy like the russian economy, which is so much oil and gas dependant, which has not invested in infrastructure and other areas of the economy, will be worried in the financial sector or in weapons or in trade or indeed, in energy. there could be potential sanctions that will hurt them. we have to design in such a way that it will particularly hit russia and not europe, the u.s., canada or japan. that is what we are working on. we hope we won t need it. i cannot envision this conflict ending up in a military conflict. i don t think it is likely i don t think anybody wants it. i tote little agree with president obama s answers on article 5 where the conflict will be taken to the board in the nato countries. luckily, that is, at this moment, not the case. questions. you met a lot of leaders here. many were angry about the nsa story. have you fixed the relationships with these leaders and the second question is, many are shocked by the extent of which the nsa collects private data. today, we read in the new york times that you plan to end the systematic collection of data of americans but can you address the concerns of the dutch and the rest of the world about their privacy? first of all, we have had a consistent, unbreakable bond between the leaders of europe over the last several decades. it s across many dimensions, economic, military, counter terrorism, cultural. any one issue can be an irritant in the relationship between the countries but it doesn t define those relationships. that continues to be the case and that has been the case throughout the last couple of years. as i setd in a spooech i gave earlier thisser yoo, the united states is very proud of its record of working with countries around the world to prevent terrorism or nuclear proliferation or human trafficking or a whole host of issues that all of us would be concerned about. intelligence plays a critical role in that process. what we ve seen is as technology has evolved, the guidelines and structures that con train how our intelligence agencies operated have not kept pace with these advances in technology. although having examined over the last year, year and a half what s been done, i m confident that everybody in our intelligence agencies operates in the best of intentions and is not snooping into the privacy of ordinary dutch, german, french, or american citizens. what is true is that there is a danger because of these new technologies that at some point, it cob abused. that s why i initiated a broad-based review of what we could do. there are a couple of things we did that are unprecedent. in my speech, i announced that for the first time, under my direction, that we are going to treat the privacy concerns of non u.s. persons as seriously as we are the constraints that already exist by law on u.s. persons. we are doing that not because we are bound by international law but because ultimately it is the right thing to do. with respect to some of the aspects of data collection, what i ve been very clear about is that there has to be a narrow purpose to it, not a broad-based purpose but rather based on a specific concern around terrorism or counter proliferation or human trafficking or something that i think all of us would say has to be pursued. and so what i ve tried to do then is to make sure that my intelligence teams are consulting very closely at each stage with their counterparts in other nations. so that there is greater transparency in terms of what exactly we are doing, what we are not doing. so some of the reporting here in european as well as the united states, frankly, has been pretty sensationalized. i think the fears about our privacy in this age of the internet and big data are justified. i think the actual facts people would have an assurance if that if you are just ordinary citizen, in any of these countries, that your privacy, in fact, is not being invaded. i recognize that because of these revelations, that there is a process that s taking place where we have to win back the trust, not just of governments but more importantly of ordinary citizens. that s not going to happen overnight, because i think that there is a tendency to be skeptical of government and to be skeptical in particular of u.s. intelligence services. so it is going to be necessary for us, the step we took that was announced today, i think is an example of us slowly, systematically, putting in more checks, balances, legal processes. the good news is, that i m very confident it can be achieved. i m also confident that the core values that america has always believed in in terms of privacy, rule of law, individual rights, that that has guided the united states for many years and will continue to guide us in the future. thank you very much, everybody. thank you again. you have been listening to president obama in a news conference with the dutch prime minister. there is the president finishing up with the dutch prime minister. i think really some of his most expansive comments to date over the crisis in ukraine, the president is saying there is no simple solution. he is saying it would be dishonest to suggest there was a simple solution to undo what s already done. in other words, get russian troops out of crimea. he did lay down something of a marker about what the united states would do if russia acts further. he took something of a rhetorical slap at vladmir putin calling russia a regional power. the sanctions are meant to isolate russia economically and politically. also, taking a stab at a bit of a slap at his ego if you will and those kind of comments will make it back to vladmir putin. let s bring in wolf blitzer. he is nour in our d.c. bureau. we noticed the comments and the two leaders and president obama talking about the linking of arms between the remaining g-7 countries about what they are doing to isolate russia. they are pretty much united right now. i think there were some substantive disagreements on specific steps if, in fact, the russians up the ante if you will. if they do anything beyond holding on to crimea. the president basically said that s a done deal. the facts on the ground. he realizes that russia is now in control of crimea even though the u.s. and european allies, almost all of the world, still reguards russia as part of ukraine. they are in charge and the president himself even acknowledged a whole lot of people in crimea who are happy about that. he did warn if the russians do take steps going against other parts of ukraine or if they were to take steps against other countries in that part of the world, eastern europe, certainly, if any steps were taken against nato allies like poland, estonia, lithuania, latvia, charter 5 of the charter would go into effect. you attack one and you attack all. the united states would have to come to the aid of that ally. he did acknowledge for all practical purposes russia is now in control of crimea. he didn t lay out the limits. he said there would be military support if russia encroaches on nato countries. wolf blitzer, in washington, we know you will be covering much more on wolf at 1:00 p.m. we are going to take a quick bre break. when we do come back, we will take a look at the search for flight 370. would get in between my dentures and my gum and it was 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(announcer) love. it s what makes a subaru, a subaru. so when my moderate to severe chronic plaque psoriasis them. was also on display, i d had it. i finally had a serious talk with my dermatologist. this time, he prescribed humira-adalimumab. humira helps to clear the surface of my skin by actually working inside my body. in clinical trials, most adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis saw 75% skin clearance. and the majority of people were clear or almost clear in just 4 months. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal events, such as infections, lymphoma, or other types of cancer have happened. blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure have occurred. before starting humira, your doctor should test you for tb. ask your doctor if you live in or have been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. tell your doctor if you have had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have symptoms such as fever, fatigue, cough, or sores. you should not start humira if you have any kind of infection. make the most of every moment. ask your dermatologist about humira, today. clearer skin is possible. he thought it was the endn for his dof the conversation.d. she didn t tell him that her college expenses were going up. or that she maxed out her card during spring break. when the satellite provider checked his credit, he found out his daughter didn t pay her bills. but he s not worried. now he checks his credit report and score at experian.com, allowing him to keep track of his credit and take a break of his own. experian. live credit confident. now, to what is happening at this hour with the malaysia plane airlines mystery. families of the passengers are still trying to come to grips with the devastating announcement from the malaysian government that according to the data they have, they believe the plane went down in the southern indian ocean and no one aboard survived. hundred of family and friends marched furious over what they say are lies coming from the government. obviously, you can see the crowds flashing the police. once they got to the embassy, the families gave a petition there. on the search front, australian maritime officials suspended search efforts today because of storms, high seas, gusty winds in the southern indian ocean. we are told that crews are likely to be back on task tomorrow. australian officials are cautioning the search operation is xl i kate complicated. we are not searching for a needle in a haystack but trying to determine where the haystack is. this is 3,500 meters deep, 2,500 kilometers from perth. they say they have called off search operations in the so-called northern corridor. they base that decision on the new analysis of satellite data. we are going to bring in a couple of guests to help us sort it all out. we have steven, a former ntsb airliner, a commercial and air force pilot. we have dr. bob arnot. he is with us once again as well. a pilot and veteran aviation correspondent. thank you so much for joining us. steve, i want to start with you. the problem today is a lack of search. there is no search going on. they had spotted debris of some kind, wanted to get a closer look. how much of a setback is this? it s certainly a setback. i think the safety investigation needs to be ongoing, and, of course, you ve got to identify a crash site before you can begin the investigation in earnest. so a bit of a setback, but an act of nature so we ve got to comply with that and we ll be done with in a day or so. and hopefully they ll find the wreckage and the crash site soon. we appreciate that optimism. bob, let s talk to you about this information that we saw. the malaysian government deliver to the world and to the families of the passengers. and i think the families specifically were struggling with the fact that they said this information has led to us believe that the plane went down in the south indian ocean with the absence of any wreckage. how do we accept this information as a definitive cause or result of what happened? i really think, given the malaysian government s track record, it s a little hard to take it at face value here. this is a very, very sophisticated analysis. as you know, it s based on what they call the doppler effect. when you hear a siren coming towards you, that frequency changes, that s the doppler effect. well, they re looking at the satellite versus airplanes flying away from it. first time it s of been done. none of us have seen the data. i think the chinese are right. we want to look at this data to make sure they really got it right this time, because they certainly had it wrong most of the last couple weeks. and steve, as we know, we are in a race against time. quite literally here. those black boxes, they stop pinging after 30 days or so after the plane, you know, disappeared. there will not be some of the equipment they need, the tow pinger locater won t arrive. they won t get it on the ship until april 5th and could stop pinging by april 8th. that s very difficult. they re up against it here. i agree. the pinger is important in finding the black box. but keep in mind, air france 447, it was almost two years before we found the recorders on the bottom of the ocean. so, yeah, it would be nice if we could do it via pinger, and a navy ship can find it with their equipment. but if it s not found by the end of the battery life of the recorder the pinger battery life, that is, they ll at least continue to search with all their other sophisticated equipment until they find it. want to say a big thank you to bob arnot. a real delight. thanks so much. we talk about the families and it s really important to always bring the focus back to them. they say they re not going to believe the government s version of what happened until they see proof with their own eyes. joining us to talk about the grief and frustration they are displaying right now, you know, it s very hard for all of us to see is heidi snow. heidi understands this. heidi lost her fiance in the twa 800 crash. since then, she has become a leading advocate for survivors, founding the group a.c.c.e.s.s., and she has trained care teams and aid disaster responders for major airlines. she this also the author of the book surviving sudden loss. heidi, we re all looking at these pictures and hearing just the emotion coming from the people in beijing and kuala lumpur. when you see it, you have such a unique perspective. what do you see? well, for me, it always brings me and all of us back. we had over 1,000 calls to help to a.c.c.e.s.s. over the years for different air disasters and a lot of calls from people from past air disasters, as well as a few of these families now. and for those of us who have been through it before, it brings us back to that crash site, the family assistance center. we all remember being there, just looking for answers. just holding out hope. and i feel like they re very much in that situation right now. and basically, we just kind of went back and forth, hold south hope and then going back to facing the reality that they may never come back to us and our lives are going to be forever changed. and we re going to have to live without them. and until there s some kind of confirmation through wreckage or some type of remains, i really believe that there really is no closure or any way to really get out of going back and forth with this hope that we cling on to and going back it to the reality. i think there needs to be a lot more evidence for the families to really be able to accept that their loved ones actually are gone. and i remember so well at the site, the varying personalities, we really learned at a.c.c.e.s.s. everybody goes through their grief in their own way. and a lot of the emotions that we have seen do remind me of what it was like. we had people who were very quiet, who were in shock. then we had those people who were very angry. and then we had people who were just sobbing. and so it really does resonate with all of us who have been there before. and after interviewing hundreds of people for our book, so much of what we re watching now just really is what the common reactions are for all of us. and what distinguishes air disasters from other types of losses is this waiting period. is this not having answers. and we certainly have a lot of people at a.c.c.e.s.s. who still do not have any remains or any confirmation from other air disasters that their loved ones actually were on board. so it is something that we all live with and one of the things we find most important is really being able to talk to somebody else who has been down that road. and who has had to go through this process. by pairing them according to the relationship of their loss and specific circumstances that they re facing. so we match mothers to mothers, siblings to siblings, spouses to spouses. and if remains are not found, we pair them up with somebody else who also had to wait a long time. so we really find that what has helped the most for our families is really being able to validate some of these feelings that are extremely difficult. and this is such a difficult time, and the rest of the world, i think it s hard for them to understand the hope piece. but all of us know that. because we would do anything we could to keep them alive. heidi, we want to say thank you, because we know this work that you do is ongoing. you have spoken with us before about the ongoing need after the press conferences are over. after the cameras go away. thank you so much, heidi snow. it works with providing emotional support services to survivors and family members of air aviation disasters. it thank you so much for joining us. you can read more about heidi s support group, aircraft casually emotional support services at
unsupervised kids tonight, we will continue the debate. caution, you are about to enter the no spin zone. the factor begins right now. hi, i m bill o reilly. thanks for watching tonight. as we present a very special talking points edition of the factor. we begin with the american left. and capitalism. with president obama s job approval numbers falling, and the democratic party having trouble in an election year, you would think that committed liberalns americans would low key it a bit, you would think. but, no, they are upping the rhetoric, especially the anti-capitalism stuff. hillary clinton is widely seen to be the democratic nominee in 2016 for president. she portrays herself as a moderate. that s not good enough for on the far left.llar does hillary clinton sound to you like the right person for this moment? in a time when corporations have hijacked our politics, enabling them to reap all the profit without any compunction to do right by their workers. as someonee who sat on the anti-rabid board of wal-mart for six years, the rightto person to restore workers rights in a time when we re still reeling from a global financial disaster brought on by full hearty bank deregulation is someone who who recently took $400,000 to give two speeches at goldmanhe sachs the person we need tost rest control of the asylum back from the banking inmates? now that anti-capitalistic commentary is the far left signature issue. talking points believes there must bemu oversight on banks andd big business to to do the right thing is foolish and naive. if you don t believe me read a little teddy roosevelt. many on the left want to t dismantle the entire corporate system. and we are seeing the se consequences of that in thences obama administration. now, entering his sixth yearar in office, the president hasent not been a friend tote corporate america. he advocates high taxes topa pay for an entitlement culture. business knows that and has not expanded, preferring to hoard profits or keep themse overseas where theyas cannot be taxed. that s why the job situation and income for working americans is stagnant.good for every good job available, there are plenty of applicants, therefore, salaries are suppressed. the government can provide well-paying jobs on a mass scale. it cannot. and every country that has tried that has failed. 90 miles off the coast of florida look what happen in cuba. that should be affluent country but communism has killed the country. hillary clinton must fight zealot tri on the left. she will defeat it she will get the nomination and mrs. clinton will run as a moderate democrat promising to reform some of president obama s ante business policies. that s what she will do. and that s the memo. now for the top story tonight, reaction, joining us from washington, ellen who worked for president obama s 2012 campaign. and with us in the studio dr. screeny. who teaches political science. where am i going wrong, doctor? i think you are on to something here. i think in my mind this speaks to enormous division and increasing division in the democratic party. so you look and you see the attacks this hillary is getting from the left and not a surprise but i think many people predict that wall street for 2016 will be her achilles hill heel in the same way the iraq war was in 2008. something she will have a fight. if she becomes nominee and elected many on this kind of new left progressive left fear that she is going to be too close it wall street and continue her husband s moderate policy. that s a given. i don t think hillary clinton although they made a big show of being with de blasio who is about as far as left as you get and they were all raw raw and the mayor of new york wants to confiscate everything, i m not quite sure how much. but i have got my bike chained six times. so i bet you have a nice bike too. dr. there is a division in the democratic party like the republican party like the paper people and moderate republicans. growing division between the so-called progressive ring and moderate ring, do you see it that way? i don t see that division historically as you guys see it i see a rhetorical concern, i think about whether hillary clinton is talking to the right people, hearing the right ideas. what are the right ideas? tell me what s right and what s wrong? look, obviously the far left has articulated by ms. ball, the commentator that we use to set it up. believes that hillary clinton is a tool, a shrill, taking money from goldman sachs, 200,000 for two speeches. that s more than i get. that s outrageous. okay? and so they don t want her. they want elizabeth warren. they want this socialist up in massachusetts. that s who they want. maybe what they want is to have elizabeth warren s voice represented in hillary clinton s campaign. i think there is a great unanimity among democrats that hillary clinton would be a great candidate and we would love to have her. i think the concern about whether she is talking to bankers or not is not really real because i don t think that there is any ms. ball said we don t want her. i don t want her. flat out said it and you do you believe as ms. quawl does, is there a division? is it getting to be a brawl type thing or is it oh we just disagree? i think it s a division now. my feeling and my sense is it is going to grow because historically that s what happens with political parties in the united states. parties become begin and become divided. i think we are seeing that and i think bill de blasio s election here in new york city who is now the leading progressive in the country and somebody who we know has been close to the clintons but there is this kind of growing sense that. yeah, but she can t run on de blasio nationwide. and let me tell you this ms. qualls. hillary clinton has got to pull back from president obama. because he got a 19% decline in median income for working americans under obama administration. do you have a big burgeoning stock market that only gets fat cats like me. it doesn t benefit the worker people, union people. and you have this unbelievable unemployment problem because the private industry is saying you know, we are north going to expand. we don t like obama care. we don t like the high corporate tax. we are going it keep all our money in luxenburg, we are not going to bring it back. hillary clinton is going to have to walk back all of that stuff. you know that. well, bill, you, me, and hillary clinton probably all agree that the minimum wage should be increased. i do. but that s small ball. the big thing is jobs that pay well. but we all agree that wall street needed some reforms after the giant meltdown. i haven t geraldo hillary clinton say there is anything that shield roll back in wall street reform. i think it s rhetorical thing. it s a shot across the bough from the left. i don t think it s a real concern. i mean, it is an unsustainable argument that hillary clinton hasn t worked her entire public life to create more opportunity and access to opportunity. i appreciate you ladies coming on. it s a very interesting and important topic. here is what is sustainable. hillarycan t run on the obama economy unless there is a miracle in the last three years. she is not going to repudiate it because there are elements that she agrees with. we will see her walk a moderate line. positive signs from the obama economy you have got to commit. deficit is down, unemployment is down. there are positive signs. i agree with you not all is perfect. you have seen the polls, doctor, lately? have you seen the economic pulls? i have seen the pick polls. you and your little progressive friends may think there is positives but, don t have much time on but, don t have much time on obamacare: next on are my name is jenny, and i quit smoking with chantix. but, don t have much time on obamacare: next on are before chantix, i tried to quit. probably about five times. it was different than the other times i tried to quit. along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking. it s a non-nicotine pill. chantix reduced my urge to smoke. that helped me quit smoking. some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. if you notice any of these, stop chantix and call your doctor right away. tell your doctor about any history of mental health problems, which could get worse while taking chantix. don t take chantix if you ve had a serious allergic or skin reaction to it. if you develop these, stop chantix and see your doctor right away as some can be life-threatening. tell your doctor if you have a history of heart or blood vessel problems, or if you develop new or worse symptoms. get medical help right away if you have symptoms of a heart attack or stroke. use caution when driving or operating machinery. common side effects include nausea, trouble sleeping and unusual dreams. my quit date was my son s birthday. and that was my gift for him and me. ask your doctor if chantix is right for you. 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(announcer) love. it s what makes a subaru, a subaru. honestly, the off-season isn t i ve got a lot to do. that s why i got my surface. it s great for watching game film and drawing up plays. it s got onenote, so i can stay on top of my to-do list, which has been absolutely absurd since the big game. with skype, it s just really easy to stay in touch with the kids i work with. alright, russell you are good to go! alright, fellas. alright, russ. back to work! captain: and here s a tip. bellman: thanks, captain obvious. when you save money on hotel rooms, it s just like saving money on anything else that costs money. like shoes, textiles, foreign investments, spatulas, bounty hunters, javelins. a crusade. there cosmtion comes a time when people with values simply have to stand up. think nazi, germany. most of those people did not believe in what hitler was doing. yep. exactly. but did they speak up? nope. did they stand up for what they believed? they did not. and you saw what happened. and if you believe that the same thing can t happen again, you are very wrong. and joining us now from virginia beach is dr. carson. if you mention nazis you know you are going to get hammered. what you said there at the end there intrigued me a bit. you said if you believe it can t happen again see i didn t believe that naziism could happen in the u.s.a. i don t think it could happen nor could communism happen here. do you disagree with me? well, i believe that what can happen is if people do not speak up for what they believe, they can be trampled. their rights can be trampled to various and sundry degrees. now, of course, the objective of many on the left is to take a single word that you are not supposed to say. you can t say nazis and slavery, that s political correctness as you well know. i do not believe in that. i think it s a bunch of crap and it doesn t really belong in the american system where we have freedom of speech and freedom of expression. you don t regr using the buzz word nazi. what you pointed to historically is correct. what you said is absolutely correct the germans were not members of the nazi party. they sat on their butts and they allowed the fanatics to take over that could not happen here because of our system in checks and balances. but, i think what you are worried about it is the obama administration s policies in general taking root. is that what you are worried about? there are a couple of things that i m worried about. i m worried about the fact that the pop police is being silent and is not expressing what they believe because they are afraid. they have been intimidated. by whom? by the government. how? by the government and by the media, by the p.c. police. you say something, all of a sudden like this is a perfect example. you know, you are using an example of how people would not speak up. they try to turn the argument away from that because they know it s true. they know what i m saying is true. but, rather than talk about that, they want to divert the issue to something else. you couple that with the fact that our congress needs to be a little more courageous because the reason we have a divided government is if one branch of the government gets a little bit over exuberant they need to reign them. in we need courage there to do that. politicians encourage, we are not seeing you know but, look, the last time well, maybe not the last time in the fall you said, look, you you were bothered by the irs to an extent that you felt they were trying to intimidate you; is that correct? yeah. i don t think it is cointhe government agency that you can point to in your life, dr. carson s life that you believe was put upon you to shut you up. and it s not just me. we we now have a government that is trying to take over the healthcare of the pop pop pop pop pop why would you put the irs over something so massive. they are the enforcement agency of fines. they because it was ruled a tax by the supreme court foolishly, so somebody has to enforce the taxation element and that s the irs. so, on paper, it makes sense. but you heard the president of the united states tell me, your humble correspondent there is not a smidgen of corruption in the irs. you heard that. right. we heard that and that, to me, is it strains credulity that he actually believes that but that we let people get away with it this is what bothers me. the fact that the congress doesn t stand up and say no, you may not implement this program because the a major portion of it is still under investigation. and we are not done with that. we don t do that in regular life. we don t take somebody who is under suspicion and put them in charge of something major like that. we have to just start doing things that are logical and that make sense again. all right, helping young americans at risk is a powerful talking points you do not want to miss. later, the action from obama s senior advisor valerie jarrett. it requires accountability and people to step up to the plate and work hard and stay in school and excel and dream. but it also requires a community around them to provide a safety net. ck pain. .and a choice. take 4 advil in a day which is 2 aleve. .for all day relief. start your engines fueling the american spirit. can you hear it? 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[ male announcer ] celebrate every win with nicoderm cq, the unique patch with time release smartcontrol technology that helps prevent the urge to smoke all day long. help prevent your cravings with nicoderm cq. that helps prevent the urge to smoke all day long. trwith secure wifie for your business. it also comes with public wifi for your customers. not so with internet from the phone company. i would email the phone company to inquire as to why they have shortchanged these customers. but that would require wifi. switch to comcast business internet and get two wifi networks included. comcast business built for business. now, i was invited to the announcement and i was happy to attend. the initiative is very well intentioned. but some specific things must be done. first, you got to teach children at risk to read. if that takes one-on-one tutoring that s what has to happen. two, you have to provide mentors to individual children that the teachers pinpoint who lack guidance at home. there should be a volunteer program for mentors in every city and town in this country. three. high profile americans including the president and first lady must go on television and the net to warn, to warn young people having babies outside of marriage and bringing children into this world without resources is cruel. it s cruel has to be a campaign, a persuasion so young americans wise up. also, there has to be peer pressure not to get pregnant unless you are in a stable situation. are we all understanding that? right now there is no peer pressure. that has to change. fourth, the initiative has to get local business people to hire kids for summer jobs and internships. children must know about the work place and what is expected there. and, finally, the american law enforcement has to engage children at risk to convince them they are not the enemy. if those five things are part of the my brother s keeper initiative, i can guarantee you america will begin to turn the terrible situation around. but, if people continue not to make judgments about bad parents, disorderly children, chaos in the family unit, we continue to make excuses for all that, problem is only going to get worse. hopefully today the white house made the first step and i believe that american business, law enforcement and we, the people, will step up to help the kids at risk.ea i really believe that andth that s the memo. top story tonight. reaction. senior advisor valerie jarrett. i was pleased you invited me to this.s. people were fainting when i walked in. we were delighted to have you. look, the president mentioned in his remarks a culture of cynicism on the a streets. nicism on the streets. not just blacks but it s the poor and the hard core, what they call gangstas. you know what i m talking about, right? there is a culture of cynicism like we can t make it. we re not going to be art pa of this. we re going to sell drugs and we are going to do what you we want. have you got to get in the afte. we all have a role we play here. this is not a big government program. the government s role is minor. it requires accountability. it requires people to step up to the plate. and work hard. and stay in school. and excel and dream. but it also requires a community around them to provide a safety net. the president talks about his own childhood he wasn t sitting in school. he was very some guidance. he had a lot of guidance. what he says he wants for all of our children is to have that safety net. but he also told them, look, boys, you aring if to have to work hard and you are going to have to act responsibly. have to attack the fundamental disease if you want to cure it now, i submit to you that you are going to have to get people like jay-z, all right, kanye west, all of these gangsta rappers to knock it off. that s number one. i think what these boys need is positive role models as you said. listen to me, listen to you c johnson there today he is a good guy. you have a bunch of these guys and a barrage, barrage, barrage and make it uncomfortable to have a baby out of wedlock. make it uncomfortable to sell drugs. you have got to reverse move, exercise. i want michelle obama to come on this program, right here and i want michelle obama look into the cam randstop say you teenage girls you stop having sex, you stop getting pregnant. this is wrong. i want her to do this right here. it s better iff she isassr actually sitting down in the classroom with the girls, inviting them to the white house. sharing her. that only reaches a few though. i believe that anything doe she does gets covered by the press. can i give you a compliment? would.sh you i believe that mymy brother s keeper program is going to work, okay.ok i think it s going to work. but it will work a lot faster and you will save a lot more lives if you incorporate what i m telling you tonight. you do you know, bill, what i really like is the fact that you are passionate about. this i care. i m a were fer teacher. i had them in my class 40 years ago. the situation has justhil gotten worse. it has. that s why we have to change the trajectory. wee appreciate you coming in tonight. it s a pleasure to beoni here. really? i m having fun. there you go. i am. white house correspondent ed henry will weigh in on the the my brother s keeper program. well, put on a breathe right strip and instantly open your nose up to 38% more than allergy medicines alone. so you can breathe and sleep. shut your mouth and sleep right. breathe right. at od, whatever business you re in, that s the business we re in. with premium service like one of the best on-time delivery records and a low claims ratio, we do whatever it takes to make your business our business. od. helping the world keep promises. upgrafor the most advanced norelshaving experience.00 with gyroflex 3d technology, you can get to those hard to reach places for the ultimate shave wet or dry. guaranteed. visit philips.com/fathersday now to save $50. enroute back to the vatican after a trip to the holy land. before departing today the pontiff honored holocaust victims by kissing the hands of several survivors. the ukraine s president elect wants to talks with moscow and end a pro-rugs insurgency in the eastern part of the country. porchenko promising to open a dialogue. he also said he would not negotiate with terrorists, rebels are calling his election illegitimate. i m kelly wright, now back it to a special o reilly factor. big things. number one, did anything stand out for you? what stood out for me is that the seeds of today were started a year ago this month in chicago is at an event with the president where he was highlighting a program called becoming a man which is sort of an after school sports program in chicago. the president was visibly moved there after meeting with some of the young people who are part of that program. some of those folks were back here today from chicago at the white house. and what stuck out for me then and now was that the president wasn t just sitting there saying i m going it help people and set an example by talking about how great i am. he talked about his failures and whether you are an anchorman or president talking to kids like this. the president opening up about how he basically didn t know his father. that he used drugs. saying things you don t hear a president say could be more effective with these kids by saying look that doesn t mean you are dead end. you could wind up becoming president and becoming anchormen. those messages are all positive. the i chided him in the super bowl sunday interview. i remember. i said come on, when are you going to get off it and start do something big. got into the door today. what i m trying to get across to the nation to valerie jarrett has got to be more personal than that the president can visit kids did at the white house. you can t visit with all kids. you can go on the television and the net and look into the cameraened a say don t g to hurt you. it s not fair to the baby. that s that s what has to be done. got to get pinhead rappers and get these people idolized to start to get that message out that was not included in the initiative broader economic issues not just about this issue inive. make sure the broader economic policies helping people not just of color but helping people all around the country if you look at it just african-american youth unemployment right now is something like 26% in this country. the president has been in office for five years. you can talk about these initiatives. they may make a difference. but the broader economic policies that the president is pushing, that he is fighting it out with the republicans on the hill, those have a huge impact as well. when you have got 26% african-american youth unemployment, i think it s about 15% for hispanic youth unemployment, obviously broader unemployment is bad for people, white, asian, black, you name it but when you look at those kind of numbers there are a lot of policies that need to be put in place. the reason the numbers are there a lot of these kids can t read and speak. that s why we have to get back down to hey, if by the 3rd grade you can t read, it s one-on-one. have you got to teach them to next up, is hip hop harmful to america s youth? 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[ male announcer ] if you can t afford your mication, astrazeneca may be able to help. thanks for watching us i m boiferl, thank you for watching us tonight. harmful entertainment. that is the subject of this east coast s talking points memo. if you saw the factor last night you know that president obama has launched a huge initiative target rother . it s a good initiative as we discussed with the president s senior advisor valerie jarrett. if you missed the interview ing the entertainment factor. these are effecting unsupervised children of all colors. makes billions putting out stuff like this. i fought so hard [bleep] now, if you can t see that unsupervised children might be harmed by that kind of stuff, then you are not responsible person. period. in order to help children at risk, the american society has got to convince them to stop destructive behavior. like using drugs. committing violence, getting enablers to showof apologists d themselves. the fact that this per pettation of young black men, whether you are famous or not famous whether you are a thug or a gangster because, what, because you listen to rap music, rap music is the reflection of our society. o reilly is uncomfortable with this culture. that s understandable. he did not come from this culture. that culture has some validities, if you will. sure. validities. the overall effect of base entertainment is corruption of impressionable children but will never ever get the far left and many in the entertainment industry to admit that the uber left will not make judgments. the industry simply wants to make money. i enormous. the my brother s keeper initiative is a very positive thing for this country. but unless it is coupled with a change in the entertainment culture, it will not reach nearly as many children as it should. and that s the memo. now for the top story underminig black america and what we can do about it here in the studio kevin powell, president of the b.k. nation. b.s. nation standing for building knowledge. where have i gone wrong. i think the issue is not that i myself hip hop culture for 30 years has said some of the things that you are s what you just saw. for adults, as i say, i don t care. i mean, you are an adult, you want this, that s fine with me. i have no problem. but 12 and it s corrupt. i mean, this is a culture of failure. it is dogging black america. i think you are right to call it out. but you know what happens is the critics as you say come out and they say oh, if yo are g talking about black women as hos and bitches. horrible. bad schools, all the environmental barriers to their success and attitude. how do you respond to that? but nothing about building a family. you know, the problem with people like mr. williams is that not only does he not know anything about hip hop culture and its history. oh, stop. actually you don t. because i have never seen you involved with anything to do with hip hop. wait, let him talk. the same thing you are saying now in 2014 mr. williams was said about hip hop when it was balanced in culture in the 198 os and 90s. we saw a diversity of voices same people attacking hip hop. even if you took hip hop out of the equation, poor schools, lack of economic opportunities still be out there. this morning i started my day in brownsville brooklyn. i have a firm in look britain one of the poorest communities in america. these kids are dealing with systemic problem. this initiative is designed to at least bring yesterday said there was a culture of cynicism in these precincts that young men who get into trouble, generally speaking. i think this applies to girls too. they don t want that s not whm saying. what i m saying. even if you listen to hip hop and its totality from the very beginning to the president. is actually as american as apple pie. they are talking about everything else we see in america. talking about it in a way that alienates the system. you can t get a job if you walk in to ibm and use that kind of a presentation. you can t. but what i m say talking, sir, with all due respect first of all we who are having this hip hop culture and the industry that you referenced at the top of the show. we agree about the problems with the industry. it s the ceos who put out this. i m putting the rap yawn is putting the rap on jay-z beyonce and so on. why are you accusing the rap people. basically they used to do ministerial shows with they have black people standing up and doing a minstrel show. the big market for this is white people. it s a white male teen fantasy, they get to use the n word and v. all the sexual references and nasty words. violence. and you asked me to let you finish. give the last words. let me tell you i grew up in brooklyn i come up from crown heights. i grew up in that situation. i have got to tell you when you are saying to young people you can t succeed in the system which is what the president and bill o reilly just said, that is corrupt. that is corrosive to the way (woman) this place has got really good chocolate shakes. 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mrs. clinton had her hands full. to blame her for the attack in libya, not fair. yes, security was bad and the state department was warned. but those things are usually handled by others, not the secretary of state. however, after the attack, now hillary clinton should have stepped up and explained the situation. instead, she herself referred to an anti muslim video as insighting the violence. she went along with what the ocbama administration was puttig out there. that was wrong and that s on her. the key question right now is did president obama himself actually come up with the false narrative? no committee will get that defined unless a guy like john dean steps up. his testimony took the president down. so the congressional committee will uncover some facts but unless a white house insider comes forward, the president will not likely be effected. there is a second scandal surrounding benghazi, some in congress don t want to know the truth, just like vice president gerald ford during watergate. they are in denial. the president was in the process of negotiating with the soviet union. the president was trying to handle the war in vietnam. i m sure he turned to those running the reelection campaign and said i have these major matters that involve the national security and well being of the american people and you run the campaign, and therefore i m convinced he had nothing whatsoever to do with watergate. it is erie the same kind of stuff being said today about benghazi. diversion benghazi, benghazi, why aren t we talking about something else? we ve already had thousands and thousands of pages of testimony, four committees in the house, two bipartisan committees in the senate. this is a waste of taxpayer money. again, supporters of the president simply want to know. now, as far as the irs scandal is concerned, the one woman who can break the case has been held in contempt of congress, as you know. if a federal grand jury is convened, ms. learner could be charged with a crime. that is the only way, the only way she might tell the world what happened, if she can make some kind of deal. just one man will make that decision, the u.s. attorney for the district of colombia. it s up to him alone to call for a grand jury. he works for eric holder and appointed by president obama. so talking points does not expect ms. learner to face a criminal proceeding. did the white house actually order the irs to target conservative groups? the president denied it to me on super bowl sunday. we re not likely to get to the bottom of this because the system is flawed. you cannot make learner talk for political reasons and it s the law. a muslim terrorist group kidnapped 300 girls 16 to 18 year ols old. the problem is not getting any better. there are scores of islamic groups terrorizing civilians all over the world, yet, what are the muslim nations doing? very little. there should be a summit organizing against them and if you speak out, you re a bigot, a terrible person. most muslims are good people but a substantial minority cause trouble, syria, iran, openly kill civilians with little repercussion and another problem that seems to have no solution. kidnapping little girls? i mean, that s enough. brit hue may disagree with me about hillary clinton and benghazi. he will be here. our fiber. try phillips fiber good gummies. our fiber. they re delicious, and an excellent source of fiber to help support regularity. wife: mmmm husband: these are good! marge: the tasty side of fiber. from phillips. nineteen years ago, we thought, wow, how is there no way to tell the good from the bad? so we gave people the power of the review. and now angie s list is revolutionizing local service again. you can easily buy and schedule services from top-rated providers. conveniently stay up to date on progress. and effortlessly turn your photos into finished projects with our snapfix app. visit angieslist.com today. whon a certified pre-ownedan unlimitedmercedes-benz?nty what does it mean to drive as far as you want. for up to three years and be covered? 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personally you know her? yes, i ve known her for years. i didn t know her that well. i did one interview, spent a little bit of time. you correct me if i m wrong because you ve known her for years. she s not a micro manager kind of person. she s the front person. all right? that got sent all over the world, constantly on the go, doing, i don t know what she was doing half the time. couldn t really figure it out. i can t imagine hillary clinton sit there and saying gee, what is going on in benghazi today. bill, we do know what that mission was there and what the ambassador was doing. we ll have a better idea it seems almost impossible that hillary clinton would be paying attention to benghazi no matter how many warnings the state department got, they don t go to her, they go to other people. i just can t see it. is it wrong, remember watergate, the third rate burglary. that was the first. it was almost like the democrats today. it was almost like nancy pelosi, all most the same. third rate burglary. all right? doesn t matter, these guys, the plumbers broke into the watergate to try to find stuff about the democratic campaign. that s what we heard. we heard it and heard it and heard it. that s exactly what we re hearing. this isn t a big deal. isn t it erie? it s almost exactly the same. it s the same in both cases we had a coverup. bill, before we make watergate comparisons, it s worth remembering that nearly 70 people were accused in the end of crimes in watergate and i think 48 or so were convicted. so we re a long way from talking about that. we re not a long way from how the politicians are reacting. we re right there, and when you re talking about a watergate break in for political intelligence, which it was, as opposed to an american ambassador being murdered, which story is more important? there is so much we know and can t say. watergate turned out to be a crime wave and until we see something that indicates something on that scale, i just think that watergate comparisons are best left on the shelf. i disagree respectfully.
being on. let s reset at the top of the hour now. i m anderson cooper. thank you for joining us. we re following two major breaking stories that the hour. the downing of malaysian airlines flight 17 that killed 298 people in ukraine. and i m wolf blitzer reporting from jerusalem. the other major story, the breaking story we were following, the crisis in gaza, where israel launched a major ground offensive and it continues. a lot to get you up to date on in this hour. president obama today laying out the priorities and the aftermath of the airline crash in the ukraine. the priorities, learning the truth first, he say then acting. there has to be a credible international investigation into what happened. the u.n. security council has endorsed this investigation and we will hold all its members, including russia, to their word. in order to facilitate that investigation. russia, pro-russian separatists and ukraine must adhere to an immediate cease-fire. evidence must not be tampered with. investigators need access to the crash site. and the solemn task of returning those lost on board the plane to their loved ones needs to go forward immediately. here s what we know. when malaysian airlines flight 17 went down yesterday, most of the people on board, 189, were from the netherlands. president obama today identified by name one american who was also killed. the airline announcing today that they will make an initial cash payment of $5,000 to the family of each passenger. it sounds like very little amount of money. meant to cover travel expenses, immediate expenses, to the crash side. an audio recording ukrainian officials say they intercepted. and one of the voice on the tape describing debris falling from the sky and saying, quote, he s 100% sure the plane is a civilian aircraft. the question of course, did anyone know it was a civilian aircraft before they shot it down. whichever side of the you d cra ukraine conflict is found spons ashlgs these deaths were not involved in that conflict. an asian airliner filled with people from all over the world. and everyone agrees there will be some sort of backlash, certainly some impact. jim sciutto is our chief national security. the question now is where will that backlash come, who will feel it, what form will it take. most likely russia. the president clearly treading very carefully here in his comments about the white house. saying we have to be certain first of exactly what happened. so they re taking their time. but, more and more, the evidence coming from the u.s. side and the ukrainian side points to some russian involvement. the president said so in so many words. he said that this, in his words, is not an accident. a plane cannot be shot down without sophisticated equipment. and he says that sophisticated equipment, including anti-aircraft missiles, are coming from russia. we re just learning now that the working theory of u.s. intelligence now is that this missile system, which both u.s. and ukrainian officials believe was responsible for taking down this passenger yet, this buk system we ve talked a lot about, anderson, that it was supplied to the rebels by russia. that would be a shocking revelation if confirmed. because it means russia would not just be indirectly responsible for this, but directly responsible. and that means greater consequences. the trouble is, how severe are those consequences. just a day before this crash, president jim, i just got to interrupt you. there s a pentagon briefing. we ll go to that live. and that support has included arms, material and training. as we investigate who did this and why, this terrible tragedy underscores the need for russia to take immediate and concrete steps to deitescalate the crisi in ukraine. and i have one update on cape bray. the crew aboard cape bray continue their work to neutralize materials from the stockpile. as of this morning, the crew has neutralized just over 15% of the df, which is a sarin precursor. this amount has been verified by the international organization for the prohibition of chemical weapons. he s no longer talking about the aircraft itself. actually, let s listen as he is taking questions. let s just see yeah, let s listen in. of russian heavy weapons across the border into ukraine and the president spoke about training, all of that. can you go through this and tell us the latest u.s. assessment, u.s. military assessment, of what the russians have been doing in transferring heavy weapons, surface to air missiles, artillery, other heavy weapons across the border, to separatists on the ukraine side and the training and assistance that you believe russian elements, the russian military, is giving to these separatists. no hint that russian support for the separatists have ceased. in fact, we continue to believe that russia continues to provide them with heavy weapon, military equipment, financing as well. they continue to allow these russian fighters to enter the ukraine freely. there have been, as you know, we ve acknowledged that some tanks, armored personnel vehicles, have made their way across the border. it is a it has been a steady concerted campaign by russia s military to continue to support and resource, advise, these separatists. have you seen there is some video out there, i don t know that you ve seen the particular video, have you seen evidence that an sa-11 or buk missile system would cross the border at some point from russia into ukraine, and what can you tell us about that system and the sophistication and training that would be needed by russian separatists to actually be able to operate it effectively? i don t have specific information about a buk system making that transit. we re not ruling anything in or out at this point. it is it is a sophisticated that said, it is a sophisticated system. the missile itself, the saa 11, which is the one we believe was used to down flight 17, is a sophisticated piece of technology. and it it strained credulity to think it could be used by separatists without at least some measure of russian support and technical assistance. they didn t just do it on their own? it strain e eed crew duality think it could be used without assistance. you have evidence of that? we want investigators to do their work. i don t have an indication now that a system was brought over and we don t exactly know who is responsible for firing that missile or with or with what assistance. what i m saying is that system is fairly sophisticated. so what is the level of their training and assistance? does it include russian forces going across the border into ukraine to work as advisers or trainers side by side with the separatists? there s been russian there s been incursions across the border by russian aircraft so, i mean, i think we have we don t have any reason to suspect that they haven t provided some measure of support on the other side of that border. i mean, these paramilitary forces that we don t talk about as much anymore certainly didn t act or behave or like some ragtag militia. so nobody s suggesting that russian military advice and assistance hasn t somehow crossed that border. it s just unclear exactly how much and when and who. again, that s what the investigators are going to look at. we got to let them do it. are we to believe it was just a coincidence that the president announced sanctions directly on the maker of this buks system just the day before? i won t get into the thought process behind the president s specific decisions. clearly, these are another round of targeted sanctions. designed to change the calculation and president s putin s behavior and decision making. what you re seep m to think what you re suggesting [ inaudible ] i have no information that s the case. second question, what s the working theory about the intent? was this an intended military target gone awry? or was this simply an act of terrorism perhaps? we don t know. again, that s what we ve got to let investigators figure out. we don t know what the motive was here. what is your theory? what is your working theory? i don t think we have a working theory at this point. this just happened yesterday. there s teams of investigators now trying to get to the site and pore through this. we just have to let them do their job. admiral, people in this department have said before that there were about 10,000 to 12,000 regular russian troops inside the russian side of the border, which is a build-up from a couple of weeks ago. is that still your estimate? have those forces changed since this attack yesterday? can you tell us about, you know, as much as you can what they re doing or what their posture is in terms of a potential incursion? yes, that s a great question. i don t know of any major change to that presence. it s roughly, still, about 10,000 to 12,000. and it fleck wait fluctuates ae bit from week to week. the point is, it has been, over time, a steady increase of these combined arms tactical battalions across the border on the russian side but to the southeast of ukraine. and they are close to the border. in many cases, closer than those forces who were more aligned along the east. if you remember, we had tens of thousands that were along the eastern border with ukraine, but not as close as these units appear to be. all they re doing is further escalating tension. it s difficult to know what their intent is. that s a question you should ask the russian military defense. they re there. they re going by size week by week. they do nothing more than escalate tension. is that process separate from these regular i haven t seen any indication they re actively involved in the provision of support to the separatists. i haven t seencontinuing to mas along that side of the border. justin. two questions. do that massing of forces, does that include air, defense, artillery systems like the sa 11 that was used in malaysian have you seen air defense equipment on the russian side of the border in that build-up? i don t have an inventory of what they ve got with them, justin. we assess these are combined arms units. in other words, it s not just infantry troops, but they have artillery capability, they ve got armor capability. they re combined arms. and they re very ready. this is a very capable force. though smaller in number than what was aligned along the border before. i don t have a complete inventory of what they ve got. an estimate of about 12,000 russian troops on the border in the russian side. obviously, the u.s. has been tracking the work of russian special operations forces, russian advisers, russian intelligence services, in ukraine. is there an estimate of the size of that advisory presence inside the eastern ukraine by russian forces? is it a handful? is it 1,000 guys? i don t have the number for you on that. that s less important than the fact that they continue to do it. and we continue to see this support and resourcing and advice given to these separatist groups. we have every indication that support is russian, coming from the russians. in ukraine we believe there are there is russian support for the separatists inside ukraine, yes. admiral, when the general was here a couple weeks ago, he said specifically that the ukrainian separatists were receiving training on russian territory on using what he called vehicle born anti-aircraft systems. how much training, can you elaborate, has that intensified in recent weeks, and was he referring to an as-11-type system? i don t know what assessment he was referring to but we agree some separatists have received training in these vehicle born systems. there s no question about that. i don t have i mean, i don t have an estimate of how many and who s doing it. that would have to raise particular alarms, wouldn t it? it s one thing, small arms. but vehicle born anti-aircraft systems, that s pretty serious. it is pretty serious. we ve been taking it serious. we ve been monitoring the situation there as closely as we can. and we ve been nobody in the pentagon has been shy about talking about the continued threat posed by these separatist elements in ukraine or by those combined arms forces continuing to amass along the border. phil. has the pentagon or u.s. government increased its surveillance of the area along the border in the wake of this disast disaster? i would just say that we re monitoring events as closely as we can. and i really don t have any more to add than that. you don t want to say whether it s increased or not? we re monitoring events as closely as we can. i ll go back to the general s comments. were there any warnings given to the commercial airline companies or any civilian airline authorities about the existence or this level of training for those taking place there was a notice to airmen put out. i think you know that. that warns civilian aircraft to fly, to take care over the skies of ukraine and to fly at higher altitudes. not an expert on that entire process but there was an international notice to civilian air carriers about that. was that prompted by what the general said, the training of vehicle born you d have to talk to the faa and other agencies that handle that. i don t know what prompted it. i think it was obviously if you re going to issue a warning like that, it s based on concerns that you have about surface to air missile activity and capabilities. yeah. you said that you don t know what the intent was of whoever fired the missile. were there any indications there were other airlines, perhaps ukrainian military planes, in the sky at that time? also, is there any concern the president keeps saying put be wants to stop this, he can. are there any concerns perhaps this is a situation that is poised to spiral out control and perhaps russian doesn t have the control of the separatists and, if so, how are you preparing? on your first question, i don t know. this is ukrainian airspace. i remembfer to them to speak ab that. we wouldn t have that here. on your second question, i think the president s been very clear about what the responsibilities and obligation of president putin and moscow are right now. which is to deit s calculate the tension. respect the territorial integrity of ukraine. and cease support for the separatist activities. which i said at the outset, in some cases, is intensifying. even after yesterday s incidents? i don t know of any big delta between their support from yesterday to today. we haven t seen any sign that it s not that it s stopping. yes. admiral, there had been previous to yesterday s tragedy, there had been two or three, at least, ukrainian transport planes shot down. does your intelligence and your knowledge indicate the system that shot down the plane yesterday was a more powerful, more sophisticated system requiring more training, or was it similar to the system that was used to shoot down the ukrainian transport planes? it s again, we re investigating this right now. it s unclear exactly what brought down the other aircraft you re talking about. i mean, we know they were shot down, but those those incidents are still being looked into. i don t have any great visibility on what brought them down. but i d like to just kind of bring you back to the larger point here. that these aircraft are being shot down. and while it s unclear exactly who s pulling the trigger here, it s pretty clear it s doing nothing to deitescalate the tension inside ukraine and to bring to this crisis a peaceful resolution. now innocent people simply flying from one city to another have been killed. and brought into this. so let s not lose sight of the big picture here. it matters a lot less, you know, exactly what system it was and a lot more that it happened and it needs to stop. just a quick follow, do you believe whoever shot this plane down could have mistaken for a ukrainian military transport? ei m not going to get into te motivations, the intent, the reasoning that went into this. that s for the investigators to figure out. we simply don t have that level of detail at this point. ma am. normally friend or foe measures on systems like this? if it was an accident, would that reveal a dangerous lack of training on the part of whoever was using it? i don t know yet. i m not an expert on that system. i wouldn t begin to get up here and try to dissect it for you. investigators are going to pile through this. exactly who are these investigators? it will be it s an international investigation. does it include dod, does it include cia there s no plans right now for a dod representative on this. i won t speak for other agencies. i believe there will be some other entities from the federal government, individuals going over there to participate in it. i don t have the makeup of the team. it will be an international investigation. do you anticipate i have no expectation right now there will be a dod rep on this team. the president said he saw no role for the u.s. military in responding to this. but what ever happened to that list of requests for equipment that the ukrainians sent at the beginning of this? yeah, we continue to review requests for, or ukrainian requests for military assistance. some $33 million that the president has authorized of material has been getting to ukrainian, ukrainian armed forces and border services. the support continues to flow. we continue to take a look at their needs and addressing each in turn. last i remember, it was mres. is there any do you have a more complete list? yes, there s been more. the recent deliveries include radios, body armor, individual first aid kits, sleeping mats, uniform items. over the next few months, additional items will move through to include night vision goggles, thermal imageers, kevlar, some additional radios. there s been some other equipment given to ukraine s border guards. barbed wire, alarms systems. excavato excavators. trucks, generators. xun cations. communications. gear. part of a package of more than $33 million now that the president has approved and that stuff continues to flow. listening to a spokesman at the pentagon. want to bring in our jim sciutto. want to bring in our chief national security correspondent jim sciutto. one of the things the spokesman from the pentagon said earlier, said it strained credulity they could do this without russian assistance, it was a fairly sophisticated device used. although they certainly don t foe who pushed the trigger. that was exactly the line i was thinking, anderson, the most significant from that press conference. follows on with what the president was saying earlier, this is not an accident, in the president s words, that they can t shoot the separatists couldn t shoot down the plane without sophisticated assistance. that assistance coming from russia. then on the floor of the security council, saying the systems are complicated, it s likely the separatists would have needed russian help, russian training. and now in addition to that, anderson, you have the u.s. intelligence community saying it s their working theory at this point that that missile system itself, the actual launcher, came across the border from russia. we have some audio we ve obtained, again, from ukrainian officials, seeming to show that that launcher came across the border. so that gives direct, as popposo just indirect, goes to the question you asked earlier, who bears the consequence to this. the president, goingrd too, you have to envision him marshalling support for stiffer sanctions against russia. yesterday, there had been some thought perhaps there was a system captured by pro-russian rebels from the ukrainian military. but as you just said, a senior defense official is at thing cnn their work theory abeimong the military is russian military supplied this buk missile system. it s a if question. this is what i was told. their working theory is this missile system came from a ukrainian base in crimea and that it was transferred from crimea to eastern ukraine, but via russian territory. if you look at a map, it would have to go from ukraine, through, you know, one route would be to take it through russia. that was their working theory. one of the comeing, many questions that hasn t been established yet. based on the statement from the pentagon, the president, our u.n. ambassador, that they would at least need training to operate this thing as well and that adds more responsibility. we re going to talk, when we come back, to a reporter on scene at the crash site for the latest on exactly what s happening there. we ll be right back. great. but parallel parking isn t one of them. you re either too far from the curb. or too close to other cars. it s just a matter of time until you rip some guy s bumper off. so, here are your choices: take the bus. or get liberty mutual insurance. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won t raise your rates due to your 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maps out and split up the territory. at the same time, it wasn t a sophisticated approach. they were still tying white cotton to stakes and basically walking through the fields and marking these spots. and the local population started emerging from their homes. people in the village down below sort of walking their cows trying to make sense of what had happened. many of them still in deep shock. there had been some reports of possible looting or removal of items or removal even of debris. did you see any of that? i myself didn t. i spoke to a colleague who had been sort of at the outskirts of the perimeter and saw a few guys going through suitcase that had fall en from the sky and talkin about whether to take a guide book. to say there s been extensive looting, at least during the morning period while i was there, is pretty difficult. you know, the perimeter there is being controlled. there s one rebel commander there who told me essentially by three groups. one is a set of fighters from nearby. the cosacks appear to be the wild card as always in this situation. so it s a little more difficult to say what s happening on their side of things. did yesterday you had talked that in some cases they were moving bodies, sort of trying to get all the victims together. does that continue today? did you see that? no, they haven t actually been touching the bodies at all from what i ve seen. they as far as we know have been asked through back channels. the prime minister of the donetsk people republic has been asked not to touch the bodies by malaysian and dutch authorities, suggesting people are still hoping there will be a chance for folks, international observers and investigators to enter the area. the concern of course is you have hundreds of bodies decaying in a field before anyone has a chance to get to them. it s summer here. it was raining actually earlier in the day. to put it simply, it s not ideal conditions. did it seem to you that most i mean, obviously, investigators are going to be looking at what kind of wreckage pieces of the wreckage and also even people themselves. are most of the people i m not sure how to ask this, are most of the people intact? i think it s about 50/50. i did a walk-through this morning and sort of in the daylight and counted roughly 50, 50 bodies, and i d say at least half of them are so mangled you simply couldn t identify them. some just kind of twisted corpses that look almost picasso-esque. but at the same time there are others that if handled properly, could be clearly identified. are there still we ve seen images of large pieces of wreckage. are most of the pieces very identifiable? most of the pieces of the debris? are there large chunks of the aircraft still intact? it seeps the debris split into sort of two clusters as it fell from the sky. the tail fin sort of further up the road. and some other debris scattered in that vicinity. and then the main crash site, which is closer to the village at the lower end of the field seems to be where the fuselage, the engines, landed. a lot of that has been burnt out. the flight hadn t taken off too long before it went down, so there was a lot of fuel still in the tank. you can really see that when you walk through the crash site. some of the alloy from the plane has sort of melted, resolidified. silver on the ground. in terms of do you have any information about black boxes or flight data recorders? there have been conflicting reports cy don t have anything that i could confirm. i ve heard the same conflicting reports that everyone has all day. and folks are continuing from both sides. to report at one moment that they have them and the next moment that they don t have them. so i think it s, again, a moment where it s worth waiting, not rushing to conclusions. and letting the situation play out a little bit in order to find out what s actually going on. ukrainian officials said they have been trying to get access to the site. in some cases, there work has been hampered. do you see any evidence officials from ukraine or accident investigators either doing work or trying to get access to a site? in the morning, there was nobody from ukraine or international groups there. i heard a group of observers visited the site. apparently there was an incident where some of the cosack guards either didn t understand exactly who the osce was or didn t appreciate their presence and caused some problems in terms of entry to the site. though rebel leaders have assured me that they will continue to and intend to allow international observers and journalists to work, they said their command is not to let locals on to the site. but beyond that, they don t plan to inpose any restrictions. i know you have also been talking to a number of pro-russian rebel leaders and spokespeople. what are they telling you, in terms of claims of responsibility, in terms of what they want to see happen? you know, it s an interesting question. it points to a larger problem. in terms of the long-term standing of eastern ukraine. most of the rebels here, i would say frankly across the board, deny responsibility for this. they claim it s a provocation conjured up by the ukrainian authorities in kiev. many of them claim they don t have is the equipment or that they don t have enough of the components of this missile system buk to actually hit this plane. when it comes to the fighters themselves, i think it s a moment where perception proves to be more powerful than reality. for these folks, even if evidence is presented by the western by western governments or by kiev, it s politicized in the eyes of the rebel fighters. these are men who have been fighting now for three months, if not a little bit more, and they ve given up their regular lives. there doesn t seem to be anyone saying that they re ready to rethink their position or to rethink their cause as a result of the malaysian airlines disaster. so the video posted by ukraine s interior ministry on its facebook page showing a buk system, according to the ukraine officials, heading towards russia, with one missile missing, things like that, that s all discounted by anybody in the rebels who you talked to? absolutely. to put it mildly, they don t trust a word that kiev says. i think anything that s released by the current authorities in kiev is seen in rebel eyes as fabricated, as intended to essentially to draw nato into ukraine. that s the understanding. the rebels think ukrainians want to establish more precedent to involve nato forces in ukraine in order to escalate western involvement and western attachment to the new government in kiev. is there anything else you want people to know about the crash site, about what is happening there right now? you know, i think one, for me, the important thing to note is there s still a lot of work to be done in order to secure the bodies. there s a lot of people talking about talking about the parts of the plane. talking about establishing evidence chains in order to have a proper investigation. and all of that is it s certainly important, but i think, especially for the for anyone who s walked through that scene, the bodies, the effects of the people on board, would receive as much attention as the more politicized debris are there capabilities there to properly handle the victims of this crash? are there morgue facilities? are there refrigeration, you know, mobile refrigeration trucks? can at this point, do they need all that to help? i think they do need all of that. i don t think they have it. the rebel quote/unquote minister alexander boridi mentioned today they don t have the proper equipment to store and secure and maintain the bodies so that s perhaps an area where the international community, observers could play a role, seems to be a point on which the separatist leadership is ready to cooperate. how easy is it to get to this site? i mean, is it because it s, you know, as we ve seen in past instan instances, it s very possible you may have family members wanting to come to the crash site as soon as possible. is how remote is it? how possible is it to actually get there? it s about 90 minutes from the regional capital donetsk where i m actually right now. it s off in a classic ukrainian countryside village, down sort of pothole-riddled roads, but the main issue i think for anyone traveling in this region right now is effectively the roads are controlled by the separatist groups. you have to pass through a series of checkpoints in order to move along the roads. i don t imagine they would be particular particularly happy or particularly kind to visiting foreigners. all journalists here have to receive accreditation through the separatist authorities. without that press card, you end up you end up held, held back from moving, moving around. it s not a at the same tie, there s still there s still fighting going on. there s still skirmishes. the city near to the crash site. so it s not an especially safe place to be traveling, although, again, i imagine on the issue of the bodies themselves and the folks impacted by the crash, the rebels seem a bit more willing to meet in the middle. noah schneider, i know, it s been an exhausting night for you. thank you. we ll continue to check in with noah in the coming days. up next, i ll talk to my panel about preserving what is a crime scene, multiple crime scenes, over a wide area, and the investigation of the crash. at every ford dealership, you ll find the works! it s a complete checkup of the services your vehicle needs. so prepare your car for any road trip by taking it to an expert ford technician. because no matter your destination good maintenance helps you save at the pump. get our multi-point inspection with a synthetic blend oil change, tire rotation, brake inspection and more for $29.95 or less. get a complete vehicle checkup only at your ford dealer. joining know new is the former inspector general of the nstb. our military analyst. and in washington, peter golz, a specialist in aviation and international crisis management. also joining us is david soucie, cnn aviation analyst. appreciate all of you being with us. david, we were just hearing from noah schneider about the crash scene. from what he said, in terms of trying to, trying to investigate this, what challenges lay ahead? this really isn t just one crime scene, this is multiple crime scenes spread out over a great distance. yes, it is. documenting it is a challenge just when it s a singular accident but now you ve got several different things that have to be treated as accident sites. if bodies are falling separately, those have to be documented as well, what tract tra jektry the object that hit the ground went what will give clues what type of explosion it was, what type of speed. there s a lot of conclusions to be had. if those are moved, it can lead you down the wrong path. even the conditions of the victims are important in all of this to determine what happened. that s absolutely right and of course the method of bringing down the plane, the residue. at this point, the air crash investigators can tell you it was a you know, a missile brought down a plane and how the plane came down. but at this point, i would be inclined to say this is not an article 13 iko accident investigation and treat it as an international crime scene explain the difference, how do you mean? at that point, like we did in 9/11, the united states, after the four planes on 9/11, the ntsb was not in charge, the fbi was in charge, because it was an international criminal investigation. you have many more powers. you have the power literally to seize evidence. you can go in and get what you want and what you need. they need that right now. just looking at the crime scene and the report, great report, but it s out of control. rick, how do you see it? well, you know, they need to get the evidence and as david said i think it s important we find out how that weapon impacted that aircraft, to find out what it did and that might give us a better clue as to the condition of the weapon. we re hearing different reports about where that came from. was it a front-line russian piece of equipment? was it something taken from a ukrainian base? was it modified? this would be important. peter golz, just as, you know, as noah was talking about, the priority is obviously dealing with the victims of this crash, dealing with them in a sensitive way, dealing with them in a humane way, in a dignified way. and right now they don t have the capabilities on the ground really to do that. no, they don t. what has to happen is there has to be international action to form a recovery team that goes in immediately. that is promised protection by both the ukrainians, the separatists and the russians. and if that kind of protection s not promised and not delivered, then there s got to be sanctions immediately placed. i mean, the evidence going to be there. after twa flight 800, we tested the explosive residue and the explosive evidence of a missile detonating near aircraft skin. the investigation will know what the marker is on that case, in this accident. they will see the evidence. but the most important thing is to get a team in immediately to begin recovering the victims and treating them with some dignity and that really is in the hands of the russians, the ukrainians and the and in terms of the black boxes, the flight data recorders, they are important, but even david soucie, even if they have been removed and again, we have not been able to confirm it, and noah has not been able to confirm the status of them, there is still the wreckage themselves, from the victims themselves. there is more to be learned than what the boxes would tell us. and at the very most with the black boxs, whether there was a warning or not, whether they had been tried to be contacted, taken evasive action to say we re off track, there is someone who doesn t want us to here, do they start to turn the other way. that would be the black box information. but as far as we have talked about earlier with the impact of what type of effect the ballistic missile that hit the aircraft or exploded outside the aircraft, that is important information to know so you can decide whether it came from. and have you ever seen a crash/crime scene like this? yes, i have. in terms of the different actors in play. yes, pan am 103, september 11, klo-7, and with the residue on the bodies and the plane, but now you re in an international criminal man hunt. and in the midst of conflict. in the midst of conflict and how they re going to secure even and the workers to come in and retrieve the bodies, they need to have security. they don t want to be harmed in that process. mary schiavo, david soucie, rick francona, we appreciate you being with us. president obama saying there were hiv aids advocates on board, committed to finding a cure. sanjay gupta looks at the global impact of their loss now. reporter: the health community around the world in utter shock. the international aids society says a number of its members were on board malaysia airlines flight 17. they were heading to the aids 2014 conference in melbourne, australia, scheduled to start this sunday. typically attended by thousands from all over the world. and among them, leading hiv experts. their loss, likely to have an impact on research regarding diagnosing, treating and curing the disease. president bill clinton is one of the keynote speakers at the conference. he says it s awful, sickening, what has happened to so many people. they were doing so much good. we do this on a regular basis, have these international aids conferences. and i try to go to all of them, because i m always so inspired by what other people are doing and what we can learn from them. and so since i left office, it s been a kind of a regular part of my life, thinking about those people being knocked out of the sky. it s pretty tough. reporter: one of the victims, prominent dutch scientist, lang. i first met him in 2004 when he presided in bangkok. those who knew him say he was a hard core scientist with the heart of an activist, who worked tirelessly to get affordable aids drugs for hiv positive patients living in poor countries. one small example of his work. he was the one that argued if coca-cola could get refrigerated beverages to places all over africa, then we should be able to do the same with refrigerated hiv medications. it s going to be a huge impact, both on people who worked closely with him, people in his lab, and on the society as a whole. it s an incredible loss. we are all just bracing ourselves to arrive and find out who else may have been on that flight. it s just unbelievable. it s really real yet. reporter: the world health organization tells us glen thomas was on board that flight. he worked with us here at cnn during our coverage of the ebowla outbreak. he was planning his 50th birthday celebration. his life and so many others cut tragically short. and dr. sanjay gupta joins me live from the cnn center in atlanta. what more can you tell us about the victims and the work that they were doing? this international aids conference has been around for some time. nearly 30 years now. and this is the one sort of conference where researchers from all over the world were working sometimes in large labs and small labs, funded in different ways, came together to try and share the research, to really accelerate what was happening in the world of hiv/aids. jep lang, one of the first people to look at maternal to child transmission of hiv, do some of the early research in that area. and trying to figure out how to prevent it. we ve covered these types of stories. it s impossible to try you could not overestimate the impact of the sort of work that many of these people did who were lost on that flight. i think more people will come in to fill those ranks, but it s going to really cast a pallor over the society s meeting. this is a brain trust of people who have dedicated their lives to it and spent years on it. and knowledge like that. obviously beyond the human tragedy for their families, for their friends, for all who knew them. for this has an impact on globally on efforts fighting hiv/aids. we re talking about the last 30 years, when we have really started to research and focus on hiv/aids since the early 80s. and there are people who have spent their entire lives, interprofessional lives doing nothing but this. as you say, they re wealth of experience, knowledge, brain trust, that s that was their whole life. and so those people, again it s not to say there aren t other people who can fill those ranks, but some real leaders. jep lang, i interviewed him in 2004 in bangkok, talked to him about some of the work they were doing at that time. and he was the president of the whole organization. so gives an idea of the stature of this man, as well. a huge loss. globally. dr. sanjay gupta, appreciate it. thanks very much. our extensive coverage of the malaysian flight 17 and conflict in the middle east continues with brooke baldwin after a quick break. and i ll be on tonight. the cadillac summer collection is here. during the cadillac summer s best event, lease this all new 2014 cts for around $459 a month or purchase with 0% apr and make this the summer of style. of swedish experience in insidperfecting the rich,ars never bitter taste of gevalia. we do it all for this very experience. 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you re reporting a lot of inconsistencies, but overall did this rape even occur? she could be grossly wrong about the facts or making it up or something in between. have you been able to ascertain from your reporting whether she was assaulted? that s difficult to tell, of course. her friends believe something happened to her and they believe something awful and traumatic and horrific. and those based on the evidence that they have seen, that s what they believe. i ve spoken to two people who saw her in the immediate aftermath of the incident and both of them say they absolutely believe something happened, just maybe not exactly what was reported in rolling stone. looking at the facts, one of the things is whether an assault occurred of some sort and the whole idea of putting it in the public domain and how well you do your fact checking. the rolling stone is getting barbecued by everybody about its reporting. tell me, what did you determine to be when doing your reporting, what did you learn differently from what rolling stone reported? first it was the fact that the fraternity did not host a party on the night in question? could they just be mistaken? or could it be a nonofficial party? we ve obviously looked into everything we can. we re looking to confirm with fraternity members who were there at that time and we ve spoken to several off the record and on the record. we re looking to do as best as we can to confirm that. but so far no proof that there was a party there, official or unofficial that night? they said there was not a party. one of her stories well, one of the things she says according to rolling stone is one of her assaulters worked as a lifeguard, is that correct? that s what she said. she worked as a lifeguard as well? that s what she said. that s what she said. now and that s what the rolling stone reported, right? correct. what did your real reporting show? we reported that no member of the fraternity was a lifeguard or worked at the aquatic fitness center that entire time of the night in question. did you have you had a chance to talk to the rolling stone and ask why they didn t go back and check these facts sorry or we tried or anything like that? not that i m aware of. what s been the reaction of your reporting? i think the news of this particular case is intriguing a lot of people. everybody just wants to know the truth of what happened that night and of course we re looking to find out what it is. and how many witnesses alleged witnesses or people who talked to her shortly after the alleged event did you talk to? i ve spoken to three people. and were the three people, in talking to them, were the events that they relayed similar to each other? i ve spoken to three people who saw her immediately after that particular event of the alleged attack. they told me a similar story of what they believe happened that night or what they were told happened that night. it is different from what was reported in rolling stone. different in what way? the number of people involved, for instance. so i think that five versus seven? sure. but it could be an easy miss tab, right? absolutely. they all believe something happened to her that night. something traumatic and something awful. and the three people, was there differences in what they told you material or just incidenstanccidental difference? i think any fact should be double checked and confirmed. having spoken with these people, we re learning something different than what was already reported. taylor, thank you very much, and good reporting. thank you. so first rolling stone changes its story and then changing its apology. a stunning admission from rolling stone magazine which could have implications on rape investigations and journalism. rolling stone admits it never contacted any of the accused. the fraternity has contradicted some of the reporting. shabby journalism and it s going viral. it was but fair and balanced in its exposeabout gang rape. it s an impairment embarrassment to rolling stone. it appears to all be falling apart. the most successful woman in radio, laura ingraham, joins us. first of all, whoever did that montage did great. how has uva handled this? look, i think the charges were so explosive and in a university setting where there s such heightened concern now in most cases about date rape, the way women are treated, title ix, i think initially everybody freaked out. fraternity brothers were trembling a little bit on camera and the university pledged to get to the bottom of things. but i think in the end, and you know this from all your experience in the court, truth matters, right? we don t know really what the truth was. it s always hard in these cases where there s a lot of booze. there s a lot of people hopped up after exams or before exams and they re all out having fun. i think some bad stuff does happen at these fraternities. but what happened that night and this type of reporting, i just think you can t not identify anyone, not have yourself identified and then go to rolling stone who i m sorry has an agenda here. rolling stone wanted this story to be true. i think they wanted the outcome of this is fraternity culture. they re subjecting women to violence. it s an all-male frat house mentality. it s animal house all over again, shut it down. if i had to say it, i would imagine they would prefer that all fraternities be shut down in the united states. now, did that affect the way they reported this story? it seems like a really lot of bad decisions were made in the reporting of this story. it s such a serious problem of rape that when you have someone do a really rotten job on reporting, it diminishes the real efforts to prevent these problems. look at the cosby issue all these years later. it s a horrific crime. it s also horrific to be accused of a crime falsely without any ability to defend yourself. the jury is out on cosby, though. right. i m just saying i m trying to look at it objectively. literally if anyone did this to my daughter, the fraternity membership would be the least of the problems they had. so i m not trying to make this big case for the fraternity. but objective truth should matter. and these so-called journalists at rolling stone, i mean i know a lot of people are writing this writer is a great writer. how do you publish something without having spoken to any of the fraternity brothers in question? it would have been so it would have been so easy. it s ajend genda driven. if conservatives had gone down the road that they had gone down on an issue that was important to them, demonizing an entire organization falsely, i think they would be all over them. i think it s one of the worst things you can do to serious matters is make a spectacle of it because now people are likely to think any allegations i don t think so. see, i ve heard that. i don t think so. i think people take this seriously, but i think we have to give women a sense that we are going to protect you. if you re victimized, we want you to speak up as contemporaneously as possible. it s one thing about uva shutting down the entire greek system ridiculous. total overreach. if someone commits an armed robbery five blocks from here the people who want to ban football and the people who want to ban fraternities, i bet that circle goes like this. as we said, emily clark insisting that jackie s story is not a hoax, a lie or a scheme but will that help rolling stone fight any potential lawsuits? joining us our legal panel, katie fang and ted williams. ted, uva or rolling stone face trouble here? greta, they could be but it s highly unlikely they re going to face a lawsuit in this case, may mainly as we know in defamation cases truth is a defense. however, even though we can show they acted negligently, meaning rolling stone here possibly, the question is was it reckless and that is the threshold that they may not be able to meet. plus we still haven t this is shoddy journalism, but we don t know if it s wrong journalism. that s the other problem is there s a difference between shoddy, not checking your facts, and having it right but doing it in such a poor way. jackie may very well have been telling the truth in the material situation here. katie, there s a big difference between journalism and the law, isn t there? to be a journalist, you just say i m a journalist. in law, we go to school, we take courses and evidence, we even take tests about this stuff. rolling stone and journalists just say we re journalists and can just put it out. yeah, it s really unfortunate because even if you re, quote unquote, a journalist, don t you have to have some integrity when you write something? at the end of the day jackie is telling the truth or not is left to be seen. but does jackie herself have a cause of action against rolling stone for the printed retraction insin waiting that she wasn t telling the truth? she may be able to go after rolling stone for their negligence. katie, i mean i don t want to do to rolling stone like uva did to the entire greek system. when we re talking about rolling stone we re really talking about the writer and her editors. anybody who is on the chain of command. there are probably a lot of really good reporters that are contributing reporters who aren t this but that s another problem too, ted, is they have now poisoned they have poisoned the well a little bit. they have. and the sad commentary is, as you said earlier in your series, rape is something that is taken should be taken, especially on college campus, very seriously. but when you have the inconsistencies here and greta, the big problem we have with this whole story is that rolling stone is putting out bits and pieces and we really don t know what are the real actual inconsistencies if any. and now we have the stigma, katie, where this woman comes forward apparently quite a time afterwards and now you ve got the problem some women will fear sort of the rolling stone stigma, the noise, the publicity and it s a very private moment of a very public crime. yeah, it s two years after the fact. there s a reason behind why she didn t come forward. again, we are not sure if her story is true or false. at the end of the day you cannot discount the fact that she waited to come forward. she may have a rationale behind doing so but there s a stigma associated with affiliating yourself with a journal or a magazine with rolling stone and putting your story out there. she put her story out there and everyone in the world knows what happened to her. rape is a horrible crime and being falsely accused of rape is a horrible crime too. it certainly doesn t help if the media isn t trying to at least track down the facts and compare and contrast and try to figure out what s right and what s not. anyway, katie and ted, thank you both. well, it s no secret. people in the media have bias. sure, they claim to be pure and free of bias but we all know better. it can poison work and that s bad. really bad. our next guest is warning about the dangers of narrative journalism. what does he mean by that? jim gar gerity joins us. this is a media drum beat constantly talking about a very simple black and white story line. there s a hero, there s a villain, there s a victim. and you get this beat into your head story after story and there s not much consideration consideration of any alternate interpretation of events. i think the events of rolling stone and in ferguson. people on our air say it s wrong michael brown had his arms up. 16 people apparently testified in the grand jury that he did. so it goes both ways. people are so loose with the facts. it goes both ways. at least it s incumbent for journalists to try to get it right. try to investigate. challenge what s out there. to those reporters who are constantly in this drum beat, a very simple story of a mean bad white cop and this gentle giant at the wrong place at the wrong time. no, he wasn t a gentle giant. that is so true. they downplayed that part. but he didn t deserve to die for that crime. see, juries can t tune out part of the story. they can t stop paying attention when it gets boring or if they do they get in trouble. they get all the facts. they get all the facts that the prosecutor presents. in this case it was enough to get them to decide we don t think a crime was committed here. you can agree with that or not agree with that. clearly that came to the community as a stunning shock. it was unthinkable the grand jury would not indict and that s how you furious, angry reaction. you know, i support the grand jury decision because i ve been around the block long enough. even when they were decided against me. i will say the eric garner is different. that s the one case where the whole event is caught on videotape. michael brown, we don t have all the pieces that the grand jury did. the eric garner is a unique case because we actually saw it. i think that s precisely the point. people feel very differently when they see it themselves. both these cases go back to trayvon martin. unfortunately the media takes sides and doesn t look at the facts. and i think it creates this expectation that will never be met. george zimmerman is this terrible guy. if the jury didn t get him, eventually the department of justice will. nice talking to you, jim. right now a large group of protesters outside the barclay center in brooklyn, new york. they are protesting against last week s grand jury decision not to indict a police officer in the eric garner choke hold case and are taking their protest to brooklyn. that s because that s where prince william and kate are heading tonight. they re going to attend a game between the brooklyn nets and the cleveland cavaliers. let s turn the corner. right now u.s. embassies and military bases overseas are on high alert. we ll tell you why. that s next. plus breaking news tonight. a fiery inferno as a private jet crashes into a house on the outskirts of washington, d.c. six people confirmed dead. the ntsb is combing through the debris. a report from the scene coming up. and an update on the marine just weeks after he was released from a mexican prison. that s ahead. you owned your car for four years. you named it brad. you loved brad. and then you totaled him. you two had been through everything together. two boyfriends. three jobs. you re like nothing can replace brad! then liberty mutual calls. and you break into your happy dance. if you sign up for better car replacement, we ll pay for a car that s a model year newer with 15,000 fewer miles than your old one. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. we re comcast. the only isp legally bound by full net neutrality rules. a fight in washington tonight over tomorrow s release of the senate intelligence report on the alleged torture of cia prisoners. tonight some insist the release of the report will lead to violence against u.s. embassies and western personnel in the middle east. katherine joins us tonight. what is this report? this report is about 6,000 pages long, though all the public will be able to see is a declassified executive summary that s about 500 pages and it was finished in the summer but there s a lengthy negotiation between the cia and the senate committee over the redakzs. and what we expect is this will finally be released tomorrow. so who s objecting? does president obama want it out or not out? the administration wants it out but they re sending mixed messages. on friday the secretary of state, john kerry, appealed to dianne feinstein to consider the timing of the release because what he sees as the backlash against u.s. interest overseas. i would add that the state department and the defense department have issued warnings to personnel overseas that there could be violence as a result. what s the authority to keep when you say redacted, the things of national security has been marked out. so what s the justification by anyone in the cia to keep it under wraps? the issue of the redactions has the senate proposed using pseudonyms for the different officers but the cia argued if you looked at the names and could see some patterns you could work out who these individuals were. this became such a contentious issue that the current cia director, i understand, threatened to resign unless it was resolved to his satisfaction. i think for the listeners, the bottom line is that this is said to be by democrats the definitive report on the cia program. a program they say never produced useful information and a program they say the cia misled the administration, which is roundly refuted by those who were in the agency. well, they could do better redactions maybe. catherine, thank you. joining us, steven dnow obviously there are concerns about american operatives overseas and relationships with some of our allies, but the bigger thing, i think, is domestically, politically, we know basically what happened. the united states waterboarded three prisoners in the global war on terror and the public knows this. they have digested this information. they have processed this information. and the kicker to the story, of course, is the president put a stop to it when he took office in january, 2009. so what s the fuss? one other part is anyone who supposedly had torture enhanced interrogation, whatever code word we re using for it, has been released, the only people who don t know about this are some americans who might be watching tonight. well, that might be so. but there s concern here about whether or not the administration, as catherine pointed out, actually was ambivalent about the release of it or the timing of it, the contents of it. senator dianne feinstein, who is about to give up her chairmanship when the democrats lose the majority of control in the senate of the intelligence committee is not known as a partisan person who plays political games. but this is being released because the democrats are about to lose power and if republicans were in charge of the chairmanship of that committee it would not be released ever. so it is seen as a last-minute push by democrats to put their stamp on it. it is obviously seen by our defense department and our secretary of state as potentially dangerous overseas. obviously there s never really if you re arguing that this has to be out, there probably is never a good time. steven, if the cia is upset with the level of redactions that you can piece it together and figure out who it might be, why don t they just do a better job at redacting and then that solves the problem. do a better job, give the american people instead of 500 pages, give them 400. i imagine if you were to take all the time in the world, you could eventually come to an agreement on that. this report has become so much more than just the activity of the cia. remember at some point you had chairman feinstein going on the senate floor accusing the cia of snooping on the senate computers. didn t that happen? well, they apologized for activity. it wasn t a false accusation, the cia was snooping that s bad. that s the step it had taken that s against the law actually. that s domestic spying. there s an investigation going on into that. that s the significance this report has taken on and how much the cia is worried about it. i m a reporter. i want to see something the cia is that worried about. i think we re about to enter a long and fruitless debate about all of this. with us? i hope that s not what you re referring to. we ve already seen dick cheney come out and say, no, they were authorized. there will be this long debate on whether we actually got any actionable intelligence from these extreme techniques. you know what ends the debate? when the truth is laid on the table so we can stop imagining what everybody is thinking or accusing. you know, that would be very helpful, minus the redactions. but the truth is basically known here. but you know what, i don t trust when someone says basically known. i want to see it myself. i don t want to be a rolling stone magazine on this and accept what everybody tells me. i d like to see it myself. i agree with that, except that are we ever really going to be convinced that we actually got actionable intelligence out of this? no, we re not going to be convinced but we ll be a lot farther ahead if we could more information to fact check, assuming it s not inconsistent with national security. but if the policies are no longer in place, it doesn t even matter at this point. unless they can tell me otherwise, i think transparency is important. if there s a good national security reason, i m all for it. up next, brace yourselves. tomorrow jonathan gruber, the obamacare architect who called all americans stupid will have to answer questions under oath to house republicans. who s the stupid one? all of us or the guy who has to answer questions 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every driver in the u.s. kept here s a qtheir car s you: tires properly inflated, how many gallons of fuel could america save each year? up to 2 billion gallons? 4 billion? 6 billion? the answer is. up to 4 billion ga by keeping your tires properly inflated, you can increase your car s fuel economy and reduce its co2 emissions. take the energy quiz round 2. energy lives here. and u ll see just how much it has to offer, especially if you re thinking of moving an old 401(k) to a fidelity ira. it gives you a widrange of investment options. and the free help you need to make sure your investments fit your goals and what you re really investing for. tap into the full power of your fidelity green line. call today and we ll make it easy to move that old 401(k) to a fidelity rollover ira. get ready, house republicans are gearing up to grill, maybe even barbecue the obamacare architect who called americans stupid. that s you too, right? that s me, that s all of us. you remember jonathan grubar, right? it s a terrible policy. the only way we could take it on was first by mislabeling it, calling the attacks on insurance plans rather than attacks on people. what we did in that room was talk about how could we make this work? obama is like, well, look, i can t just do this. it s not going to happen politically. ted kennedy and they figure a way to rip off the feds. it s a very clever exploitation of the lack of economic understanding of the american voters. transparency is a huge political advantage. basically called the stupidity of the american voter or whatever, but basically that was really, really critical to get the thing to pass. tomorrow jonathan gruber goes before the house committee. a.b., it just doesn t get more fascinating than this one, i don t think. i know, it s interesting. in the years between 2012 and now, he had a lot of fun talking about this behind closed doors. and got a lot of money. he must have. and now he s been in trouble with the contract he had with the state of vermont and a recent e-mail turned up where he said he gave one interview apologizing for it but since then he s been laying low because he doesn t want to fan the flames of the haters, so it s really interesting what his interpretation of the damage is. it will be interesting to see if he actually doubles down and makes it worse. steven? i can t wait to see if he s at honest in tomorrow s hearing as he was in those you know, i don t think he said anything that those who followed the issue didn t already know. you knew that they gamed the budget rules. you knew that they jammed this through. but he s an insider, that s the difference. this is so bad politically for the obama administration that they re requesting that the head of the center for medicare and medicaid services not be on the same panel with him just to literally put physical distance between him and the obama administration. byron, why is he showing up? or is he going to show up? he s been a very talkative guy in the past. this would be a real good time to stop. remember, he s put his foot in his mouth on two separate subjects. one is the american people are too stupid to know we raised their taxes. the other is what he said about exchanges, which is the subject of this big lawsuit going to the supreme court. they re going to have to ask him about both of those. i think on the one hand, the americans are stupid part will just is basically just going to be a political argument. they re going to beat him up over it but they will be asking, you know, what other people in the administration shared your opinion about this. did you discuss these ruses with other lawmakers, people in the administration. but then the other thing is about the exchanges. did you really intend that if a state didn t form an exchange and it couldn t its residents i wouldn t ask that because he s locked in. i d show the video and say is that you? yeah, that s me. i wouldn t give him a chance to back out of it. you know, kathleen sebelius and leader pelosi act like they don t know him. so i d start grilling him on how well do you know them? do they say hi, jonathan. $400,000 for his role in constructing this program. i m a little upset he and kathleen sebelius didn t have more meeting time actually. it s incredible, isn t it? i can t wait. if this were up against the packer game tonight, this would be a really tough call for me. a really tough call. you know, maybe he ll do a great job. i just can t imagine how with those videos. whatever he says ends up landing either the program or himself in more trouble. he s going to be a humble guy. he s not going to be the guy you saw. how do you humble yourself out of that? i didn t mean they were stupid, they re just not as smart as i am? you say yes, sir, no, sir, and thank you for the question. i wouldn t show up. who advised him to do that? anyway, panel, thank you. we ll all be watching tomorrow. a private jet crashes into a house in a washington, d.c., suburb. six people confirmed dead. for the latest, alexandra lehman is live at the scene in gaithersburg. alexandra. reporter: we have confirmation that six people died as a result of this tragic plane crash. we understand three of them were on board the plane. the other three, take a look, were living inside this home. you can see just how badly damaged it is after some fire and explosions that witnesses described. now, we do have some photos of the family that lived in this home. such a tragic, tragic story. we understand the mother, marie, was one of the three people who died along with her 1 1/2-month-old infant and her 3-year-old son. now, we understand that the father and 5-year-old daughter both survived. investigators believe they were not home when this crash happened. now, we also have some video of the horrific aftermath after this plane crash landed in the middle of this residential neighborhood here in gaithersburg, maryland. and what we know is that the plane was coming in for a landing here at montgomery county air park around 10:45 this morning when there was trouble. witnesses who saw the plane describe it as flying erratically from side to side, making some odd turns just before this crash happened. and after the plane came down, we understand that it damaged a total of three homes. it broke apart the wing and tail and fuselage, all went flying into these homes causing quite a bit of damage. the most extensive to the one home that we have out here live was the most damage and, again, that s where the three people who died were. the other three, again, inside that plane. now, montgomery county fire and rescue service, they were the first here on the scene after this crash happened. they have had hundreds of firefighters out here since then and also a few hours ago the ntsb arrived on scene. they held a press conference earlier this evening. what they told us is that they have recovered a black box that they sent back to headquarters in washington, d.c. they will be taking a look at that as they try to figure out exactly what happened, but it could be some time before we have any of those answers. greta. alexandra, thank you. this a fox news alert. right now a large group of protesters are gathering outside the barclays center in brooklyn, new york. they are protesting against last week s grand jury decision not to indict a police officer in the eric garner chokehold case. tonight the protesters are in brooklyn because that s where prince william and kate are heading soon. the royals are scheduled to attend an nba game at the barclays center. some ticket holders are having trouble to get inside. we ll take you back to brooklyn, as needed. and straight ahead, i don t know what is worse, the chief architect of obamacare calling all americans stupid or being sued by nuns. the little sisters of the poor. president obama has all those problems. find out what happened today inside that courtroom. that s next. for over a decade, enroll in nexium direct today. comfort keepers can provide a variety of custom in-home services for your aging loved ones, including nutritious meal planning and preparation. visit audioffers.com today. hello. i m an idaho potato farmer and our big idaho potato truck is still missing. so my buddy here is going to help me find it. here we go. woo who, woah, woah, woah. it s out there somewhere spreading the word about america s favorite potatoes: heart healthy idaho potatoes and the american heart association s go red for women campaign. if you see it i hope you ll let us know. always look for the grown in idaho seal. today a group of nuns, the little sisters of the poor, are taking president obama to court. it s about the obamacare contraception mandate. joining us, lawyer for little sisters of the poor. nice to see you, daniel. greta, good to see you too. as i understand it, this case we saw it a little bit in the supreme court because the supreme court issued an injunction in favor of the nuns but that still left the case alive down below in the tenth circuit, right? or the 11th? which circuit? the tenth circuit, that s right. the supreme court protected the little sisters from being forced by the federal government to violate their faith and paying millions of dollars in fines. at the 11th hour last year. but they have only been protected temporarily so we have to wait until the end of this case and that s why we were before the tenth circuit court of appeals today to protect the little sisters from those fines coming back. in my worst case also handled that case at the supreme court, but before it was at the supreme court, it was at the tenth circuit court of appeals. and the tenth circuit got to exactly the right result. they said, listen, the government doesn t get to tell you what your religious beliefs are, they don t get to make them up and they don t get to tell you which religious beliefs count and which ones don t. they reached the right conclusion to protect the religious family that was at issue in that case. go ahead. no, go ahead. no, i ll let you go. the issue has really been sharpened now because we re talking about the little sisters of the poor. and if the government, the federal government can say to the little sisters of the poor, we get to redefine your beliefs and tell you what beliefs are okay and what aren t, they can do that to any of us. so anyone who cares about religious liberty should care about this case. i don t know how the supreme court or the tenth circuit is going to rule, but certainly it seems like hobby lobby is one that tips in your favor but i m taking the last word on that, daniel. thank you, and we ll be watching. thank you. thank you. and straight ahead, some college students slamming their professor. they say he is forcing them to recite an anti-american pledge of allegiance. that s next. credit karma. really free credit scores. name of jesus that hates communists, a very strong political statement this professor has, completely contrary to the university s values. is this sort of a teaching tool or is he pushing it on them? there s a big difference? in talking with the professor, he said two things, he said it was an ice breaker, a silly little poem, something you would expect bart simpson to read. second he also says he s using the pledge of allegiance to teach an alternative perspective on patriotism. he makes it clear he s biased and he sees america as a racist, repressive country. he s trying to give students that history which i think is absolutely not the case. he completely ignores what makes america great. get tax one of the things i found interesting is he said america doesn t have tolerance for diversity of thought. think about that for a second. this is a country that embraces naturally everybody from ann coulter to al sharpton. we, of course, do. i take thit is not mandatory class. you have students that want to take it, or they can choose around it. not mandatory. it s an elective students can have in their undergraduate studies. what we re seeing, this is a trend that we re seeing all across the country. we re concerned about what students are being taught. so covering this sort of taught, this was brought to us by a student whistle-blower. caleb, nice to talk to you, nice to see you. let s go off the record for a minute. december 7, 1941, the day of infamy, japan struck pearl harbor, more than 2,400 americans were killed. now 73 years later, a new generation, ours, is doing something actually disgraceful. i read about an internal report from the national park service, another way to say they don t want you to know about it. here is what the report says. the pearl harbor memorial is in dekarks not being maintained. for example, peeling paint in the museum, horribly embarrassing. there s so much more, including details about accumulated bird droppings, bird poop or bird you know the other word. i can t believe my generation would allow that, the accumulation of bird droppings on this memorial. i actually can t believe it. how can we possibly be that disrespectful to those who died at pearl harbor, those 2,400 americans died so the rest of us can be free. is that really the best we can do for their sacrifice, let it get stained with bird droppings and an internal report. i think it s just awful. don t tell me we don t have the money. there s plenty spent on government waste around here. why st / wi is it so hard to do the right thing. new protests across the nation. you re looking at brooklyn, new york, the protest outside an nba game is growing. the latest is next. to severe chronic plaque psoriasis. so i finally made a decision to talk to my dermatologist about humira. humira works inside my body to target and help block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to my symptoms. in clinical trials, most adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis saw 75% skin clearance on humira. and the 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blood pressure before taking breo. ask your doctor about b-r-e-o for copd. first prescription free at mybreo.com because it helps me skip the bad stuff. i m good. that s what i like to call, the meta effect. 4-in-1 multi-health metamucil now clinically proven to help you feel less hungry between meals. experience the meta effect with our new multi-health wellness line. i love my meta health bars. because when nutritious tastes this delicious, i don t miss the other stuff. new meta health bars help promote heart health. experience the meta effect with our new multi-health wellness line. this is a fox news alert. the protests growing outside an nba game in brooklyn, new york. more protesters joining the crowd outside the barclays center. that s where william and kate are heading. patrick manning joins us. tell me what you are seeing there. reporter: just before tip-off, around 7:00 or so and there was a die-in when we first got here. around 200 protesters, got silent, got on the ground, laid this for about ten minutes or sore. as that was ending, the protests started to grow. it made it difficult for ticket holders to get into the venue. several hundred other protests joined from i assume a neighboring location. right now they re yelling shut it down. i haven t noticed any arrests. but people are certainly very passionate here on the fifth night of protests here in new york city. patrick, i take it you ve seen no sign of prince william. i assume they somehow get in this facility not through that crowd. that is certainly what i hear from a colleague of mine. they re actually going to be entering the venue at half-time, but underneath the venue. they certainly won t be facing these crowds. but they will be here the second half of the game. so far love but not violence, is that right? reporter: i had talked with the nypd, but i haven t seen any arrests. patrick, thank you. and thanks for being with us. we ll see you tomorrow night at
barking dog and that appears to be what alerted the hostage s captors to what was going on. during the firefight that then followed, u.s. forpdss saw a militant go into the shack where the hostages were being held. it is believed that is when he shot both of the hostages, both of them died as a result of those injuries, as u.s. forces were transporting them away. u.s. intelligence did not know the identity of the other hostage being held with somers. he has since been identified as south african teacher pierre korkie. a char that worked with korkie says he was due to be released today. to discuss this and many of the other top stories for the week, joined by our panel, bring in democratic strategist basil smythe, jr., political consultant and former adviser to mitt romney, cater packer gauge and msnbc correspondent, casey packer hunt. obviously on this hostage story, we are learning the details, obviousiously a heartbreaking story, another report i know in the new york times this morning that apparently the south african who was being held about this american, this charitable group he worked with saying it had reached a dell for his freedom and obviously, that was destroyed by all this, too. another piece in it as well. just goes to show you i think that there was a failed mission a couple of weeks ago. all of these captors that isis has right now, the attempts to get them out, just how difficult it is to get any of these people back. and the obama administration has announced that they are going to review u.s. hostage policy, in part, because they have faced some criticism from the families of the people who have been held hostage and ultimately killed by isis and other groups much the one thing that the americans say they are not gonna change is whether or not they will pay ransom for a hostage and it sounds like from that preliminary reporting from the new york times that the south african group had actually paid a ransom or had been willing to and that he was set to be release and that you know, we didn t know that, the americans didn t know that when they went in. and all these isis stories, so many europeans held, yet these european governments, a lot of them don t admit it publicly, but privately, they pay the ransons and they get their people out. here of in the united states talked about the policy before, from the standpoint, wouldn t want to pay ran as soon as, the issues of the families, hey if the government doesn t want to pay it fine, can t i raise the money, can t i get my kid out, get my sop, my dur out? right. and there are legal issues there as well, but it s hard to tell a family that you cannot do that. it should be noted that as failed missions are not unusual, unfortunately, it goes took at least 1980 a mission in iran to free the hostages. are they changing tactics, not killed hostages before in this way. are they changing their tactic that may suggest we need to as well? if it s a response to isis. i think it does speak to a as the san francisco chronicle reports, minutes before the police disbursed the crowd, several concerts let out downtown, several concert gears waiting to neigh a nearby parking garage were sent running for cover. president obama this morning talking with b.e.t. net workers about this recent unrest in america. as painful as these incidents are, we can t equate what is happening now to what was happening 50 years ago and if you talk to parents, grandpar t grandparents, uncles, they will tell you that, you know, things are better, not good in some cases but better. typically, progress is in steps, it s in increments, you know, you re dealing with something as deeply rooted as racism or bias in any society, you got to have vigilance but recognize that it s going to take some time and you just have to be steady. that full interview, by the way, will air tomorrow night, 6 p.m. on b.e.t. basil, considering the president s role in all of this, the ferguson, decision no to go forward with the case was announced by the grand jury out there now, about two weeks ago, the president was on television within ten minutes. how have you assessed his leadership through this? i do think his leadership has been fine, he has been measured and i know there are some on the left that don t like that and conservatives don t like that s what they would say meddling in local matters. i think he has absolutely struck the right tone. what should be note it had is an be a sect failure of branches of government, particularly the judicial system and i think what what needs to happen going forward is that the president should, i know there is a federal investigation, should address the the actual issue here which are failures in criminal justice. this is going to impact also his nominee, loretta lynch, to the attorney general post. i know that she is gonna get significant questions on how she would go forward on some of these issues, but i think his tone was appropriate. i think he handled it fine. but we are waiting to see what s gonna happen with the federal investigation. loretta lynch angle on this is really interesting, casey, because she is as the u.s. attorney for this district involved in this case now, obviously, if she becomes the attorney general, potentially involved in anything that doj is doing. so, that just means this the decision is made here on whether federal charges had brought against garner is going to intersect with the confirmation politics in the senate. do we have a sense of how that is going to play out? absolutely, steph. i think the one thing that distinguishes ferguson, for example, from the garner case is you saw a remarkable amount of unity coming out of capitol hill saying there maybe a miscarriage of justice in this situation. i think the facts in the ferguson case have been much more sort of muddled and argued over. there are people who feel, you know, strongly that the police officer maybe acted in good faith. i think in this particular case, because of the video and because of the evidence that we had, everyone on capitol hill that i spoke to was pretty shocked that this came down the way it did and i think that while it can it has the potential to throw a wrench into her confirmation process, i think unless something particularly inflammatory happens with the investigation, there s nobody out there yet who is saying that pushing harder on this is gonna cause a problem for her. interesting, too loretta lynch, she political jobs in a way, she knows how to play politics and she has made alliances with people you might not expect, like rudy giuliani, for instance, very supportive. she came into it in a very strong position as well. when she was first announced, there was very little opposition to her, which is gonna help her in the long run. one of the reasons she was picked. let me ask you this, obviously, we have seen some of the initial polling after ferguson and what struck me about the polling after ferguson, we talked about this in the show a little bit yesterday, it really kind of hues to this basic partisan divide we see on almost any question and sort of the predictable groups go republican have one view of it the predictable groups that go democratic have one view.t i hear a lot of republicans saying this bothers me, too. haven t talked to anybody who has seen that video that suspect sort of shocked by what took place and feel like feels like there was just an overwhelming amount of violence in that situation that gives people pause. but not everything is a partisan issue. what there hasn t been a lot of talk about is the media s role in all of. this the fact of the matter is the protesters shall the people talking on either side of it, they don t have all of the information that these grand juries have offered to them. s s a little bit unfair to be second-guessing after the fact, not willing to sit down and look at the evidence the ferguson, we pretty much did get the evidence. we have it available. i m saying i don t think that too many people are actually sitting down and looking at all the evidence. there s a lot of sort of inflammatory reporting, in my opinion, that sort of gins this up and doesn t take the time to look at all the facts that are presented. and i do think that because of the video in the garper situation, it does seem much more clear but again, you still don t have all of the evidence that people are reviewing and poring over. but i do think what is fair and what the media has done very well is put voices on camera that are speaking to the inequities in the system and disparate treatment we are seeing in ferguson and in the eric garner case that tie those things together. look, cliven bundy is out in the west holding off federal marshals with advanced weaponry. he and his friends are standing on bridges with assault rifles pointing at u.s. maher shals but a man selling loose cigarettes gets choked to death and ten people are standing around him and are absolutely doing nothing. so, i don t think the media has inflamed anything. i think it is it is incumbent upon all of us really in situations like this to bring a lot of those voices to the table and say, yes, this is this treatment is disproportionate it is disparate and it s wrong. but the reality is that the criminal justice system, particularly in grand juries, you mentioned that, is where we need to have some real reform. they do not get vetted like trial jurors do and i think that needs change. all right. mo tore get to including some interesting comments from valerie jarrett about members of the obama administration. also, the latest on that rolling stone story about university of virginia and rape allegations. that s next. 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a magazine that sort of had an activist edge to this and they wanted to prove something they already they believed had happened without bothering i m still trying to figure out exactly how something like this happens, in terms of failure on a journalism level, i can t remember something this bad recently? steve, i think for this subject in particular, it s a shame that this has happened in part because it is so hard for so many of these victims to come forward. you have someone, and clearly the woman at the center of this story had something terrible and traumatic happen to her. now the magazine is struggling to figure out which details line up right and which ones don t. that is up to them. every time something like this happens it sets back the overall goal of making sure victims are believed, not written off, stories are true, so much that goes into feel like they can t come forward because they are not going to be believed and i think that, you know this is a major journalistic sin but as will for our community as a whole as people are trying to combat sexual assault. this was a story that i have three nieces that are on colleges campuses today and it was a story when i saw it that i immediately share ready with family members, because it sort of terrifies you. to kasie s point, i think it does setback the ability to get people to come forward. you know, there s a lot of things that are worrisome. i think that when a journalist makes a deal that they are not going to talk to the accused, i think that s a dangerous place to be. i think it s also a dangerous police to be when colleges decide that they are gonna try to handle these things internally and not turn something that s felony immediately over to law enforcement. so all of those things, you know, sort of give you pause about this. part of it, basil, you read how this came together, there was a point apparently in the reporting where jackie didn t want to be part of this in i more, you know what i don t want to go down this road. rolling stone basically strong armed her, no, we are doing this and hey this is running either way, you want to talk to us or not, we are running this either way, that s lot on rolling stone. and i think it specs to your point you hope it doesn t have a chilling effect. if a victim wants to report the story, wants to report what s happened to them, wants to go forward and talk to the police, whether the campus police are handling it or the local pd will be handling it, you don t want a situation where she s being forced to sort of come out and then not have control of the story of the details of the incident after that. and it looks like, you know, and i hope this doesn t happen, i hope that aring the rolling stone apology doesn t sort of cut off the conversation about what happened to her but you certainly don t want a chilling effect going forward. the university of virginia actually in their statement, i think to their credit, said, okay, well, these questions. coming out about this story but, you know what, this is still a conversation we need to have. we still need to be focused on making sure that we limit or end sexual assaults on campus. for a publication like rolling stone , too, what do they do now, a brand name in american journals and rolling stone around forever. each institution has to grapple with this. changing this apology in some ways is a red flag, how you handle this is really if something like this happens, how the s handled and the aftermath says a lot about the institution, what they are committed to. so i m not sure that changing your apology and not mentioning the fact that you changed your apology was yeah, the instincts, too the first apology they ran, it was just so much like trying to push this off, oh, we got fooled, we got hoodwinked here, something like that. that didn t look good either. there s a lot of these cases that occur and clearly, they gravitated toward a particularly inflammatory case because it would sell and it would cause page views and i think that s on the editorial team, you have got something so incendiary that you are, you know, crossing all the its and dotting all theisms, clearly, they didn t do that that was the thing that struck me reading it all the important sort of institutional questions about uv a, its response, the response of colleges to all of this, they are in this arm and there are important things to be raised. almost as if they said, you know what that s not gonna get the page views what is gonna get the page views is the anecdote, we need the anecdote at the top of it, when they get into trouble and raising all the questions. say thanks to, bass the spikele, jr., katie packer gains. kasie will be with us later. and anger over one of president obama s nominees from an unlikely source, his own party. that s next. 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here to discuss is msnbc contributor jared bernstein, who is also a senior fellow at the center of budget and policy pries and was vice president president obama s chief economic adviser and lenore pal dean know, economist and vice president of policy and outreach at the liberal think tank, demost. thank you for joining us. lenore, let me start with you. the case against weiss this is a member of the president s party, campaigned for obama s re-election, done work on the issue of raising taxes on the wealthy to combat inequality, why is that a bad choice for this position? so i think we have to step become and look what the this position actually is. it is somebody at treasury who deals with domestic finance and the implementation of dodd frank, i think two qualifications we need. one is someone who has deep experience with domestic regulation and the other is somebody who is independent from wall street, somebody who is going to be willing to disagree with them and i think that does he have regulatory experience? not that i m aware of. he is a corporate m & a guy. his experience is really in international corporate business mergers and also this $21 million payout he is getting from lazzard to go into public service that really calls into question independence from wall street. okay, jared, that is the case against. what do you make of that? i think both lenore and senator warren make a lot of good points. i think, from my own experience, it really matters a lot who s in the room when you re making economic policy at this level. however, i think they are different rooms, for this. radio, for the undersecretary of domestic finance, i think it s helpful to have someone with the kind of market experience that antonio weiss brings to the table. lenore didn t mention one of the most important parts of the job, that s managing the stock of our national debt, $17 trillion in debt that this undersecretary has to be sure to finance in a way that s highly efficient. if you look at this guy s career, he has spent decades in international markets dealing with global finance. in fact, it s hard for me to realize, and i i would argue that senator warren has failed to really name a person who would be appropriate in this position who doesn t have this kind of market background and experience. jared, is it a concern to you, no experience unless no experience in terms of regulation, no regulatory experience? well, in fact, if you re sitting across the table doing mergers and acquisition and the kinds of advice that lazzard provides to firms, you know a lot about where those skeletons are buried. what really matters in this position, somebody with regulatory ex-peer enwhy, hard pressed to find many in this kind of position who had that kind of experience and that they have the kind of sensibility that senator warren is looking for. and here, i know antonio weiss a little bit and he actually is very much in favor of the kind of rigorous oversight that senator warren and frankly myself think is important. we shouldn t judge him just on the basis of this wall street kind of label that s been attached. lenore is there an argument to be made, i wonder what you make of the argument that because he is so close to wall street, because that s his background, because he knows so closely, so intimately how it works it would put him in position to sort of know the trick, to know, hey if this is the regulation this is the workaround they are going to tray to come up. you want somebody like that, sort of like at the casinos, they hire the guy that knew how to beat the game, beat the house, hire him for security. is there an an analogy there? i think it is about the mix of regulators enough treasury and we know how much that ineffective financial regulation led to the last crisis, i don t know antonio weiss. i m sure s very smart guy and could do a good job. the question is really who would be the best person for this position at this time. do you have so do you have somebody else? jared was thinking i don t. but i think there s a number of other consumer advocates, financial regulatory experts, people who have really been in the sausage making, in and around treasury for a long time who would be great fits for the position. let me make a point about that, steve, you know, it s important to recognize that mr. weiss, as an undersecretary, will be working under the deputy secretary, sarah bloom rasken. this is someone who has a long history of consumer advocacy and someone who senator warren really championed and recognized as really i think the type of regulate they re both lenore and i recognize is important to have up there, that s basically going to be mr. weiss s boss, if he is confirmed, and she will be driving the regulatory train. that makes me feel a little better about. this here is one thing, jerry, my impression from afar watching elizabeth warren in this, also interested in making a statement and having the democratic party make a statement that a democratic party that s had such a close relationship with wall street and wall street that caused so much pain in people s lives the last decade, using this as an opportunity to tell people, you know what, we are looking away from wall street for a change. suspect there an argument to be made for doing it symbolically? it is a great argument. half of my article was completely underscoring that argument. let me tell you something from the inside that i think is very important and really isn t part of that argument. when i worked for the obama administration as an economist and we were trying to craft dodd frank and dealing with the recession and recovery act, the folks on the other side of my progressive/warn/lenore kind of arguments were not necessarily people with wall street experience. i m not going to name names but the folks that i was arguing against often didn t come from wall street. so, you know, that kind of a litmus test may not be really what s warranted here, no pun intended. lenore, final word on this. i think we have to look at what would be the best fit for this position at this time and i don t think antonio weiss is it. all right. to be continued on this one. my thanks to lenore paladino from demoss, jared bernstein, center of budget and policies. appreciate you joining us this morning. thank you. over a decade since the debut of the bush doctrine and this week, we have a preview of the jeb bush doctrine. we will dissect it. that s next. alright, so this tl arthritis lasts 8 hours, but aleve can last 12 hours. and aleve is proven to work better on pain than tylenol arthritis. so why am i still thinking about this? how are you? aleve, proven better on pain. i m there to do the safest job possible - not only for them, but everybody, myself included that lives in the community. i m very proud to do the work that i do and say that i am a lineman for pg&e because it s my hometown. it s a rewarding feeling. jeb bush s biggest liability may be his last name, and that is because of george w. bush, chaos in iraq that dragged down george w. bush s approval rating, the poisonous depths in second term as president and haunted his legacy since. on tuesday, jeb bush, now eyeing a 2016 presidential bid of his own, delivered a 20-minute speech some are describing as the jeb bush doctrine. a meeting of the anti-castro u.s. cuba democracy pac in south florida, bush laid out what he thinks america s role in the world should be. we need to have a policy not of unilateralism, although no option should ever be taken off the table. both our country and our president should never negotiate in advance any kind of consideration, but we need a policy of engagement. even he s gently inched away from his brother, bush reserved his harshest criticism for president obama. our allies don t trust us and our enemies don t fear us. there is no situation worse for stability and peace than that. the iron rule of superpower deterrent is mean it when you say it. so, how much is jeb bush really separating himself from george w. bush s foreign policy legacy? how effective will it be? joining me now is former george w. bush campaign adviser mark mckinnon, now a columnist for the daily beast and co-founder of no labels and msnbc political reporter, kasie hunt, is here with me in the studio. mark, you know this family very well and think of policy and the bushes and i think of george bush senior, the first george bush had a chance to go into baghdad, absolutely wouldn t do it the son absolutely did do it. when you look at jeb bush, which one is easy, the restraint of the father or sort of the let s go in there spirit of the son? well, probably a mix of the two. you know, first of all, when you see a governor giving a major foreign policy speech, that s pretty clear indication that he s running. two i would say that i think people saw this speech and conservatives recognize that s, a, really serious on the policy side and very conservative, he s got his own doctrine, very much focused on central and south america and terrorism there, cyber security, so, he is really, talking about going his own way and forging his own foreign policy, but it s a real flag that s getting sear juice about i mean, does he believe, i was going back and looking at the speech, hard for me to say, but that idea that sort of animated his brother, animated george w. bush s presidency of just this, the power of sort of testimony mock krk k testimony mock krit testimony mock krit tizization, has he learned from thafrom that? jeb bush thinks we should lean forward, lead from in front and words matter. that would be part of the jeb doctrine. i wonder how the republican universe looks at this, aware of the political baggage that comes with the bush name and bush foreign policy tradition, people in the republican party who still believe in it. where is the republican party now, what are they looking for when it comes to foreign policy in a couple things on jeb bush and certainly any candidacy would be cast in late of his brother and iraq. tough think about what s happened since then, namely, president obama and the raise of senator rand paul. and i think hearing from bush, our words need to mean something that is very much a reflection of the republican party s overall thinking on this president, which is he likes to say things, likes to draw red lines. red lines on syria. likes to not follow through. they are looking, i think, for a candidate who is who will push forward with that, we are going to mean what we say. but also, with senator paul there is some significant concern on in those factions of the republican party, whether you want to call them neoconservative, not convince they had would call themselves neoconservative anymore, those particular people concerned about israel. john mccain, lindsey graham. sheldon adeleson a key one, some of big donors, they are looking for somebody who sounds a lot more like jeb bush than rand paul. mark is that one way to maybe interpret this, governors, when delivering foreign policy addresseses that is a pretty clear sign what they are thinking, i agree with that, lack at the con of this speech, telling the types of people in the republican party that kasie was talking about, lack, you re scared of rand paul, i can be the guy who beats rand paul? no question, he has firmly established himself to the right of rand paul and ted cruz, which is a real faction now on foreign policy, so this is really separating himself and also laying down a marker that s very conservative. let s put this in a little bit of broader perspective, a poll that came out last week, the republican field, jeb bush, chris christie, you know, sort of running together near the top there, sometimes they throw mitt romney into these things, too, and mitt romney ends up into the lead. there was a story this week, we can also show this, from business insider this week saying romney met recently his inner circle, some emerged convinced that s running. we have been hearing this off and on, mark mckinnon what do you make of the mitt romney stuff? is this just a great smoke screen? an ego trip by a guy getting a few fremonts of press here? do you think there s any chance he runs? could be our adlai stevenson. i think there is a chance he could. that i saw that as a significant signal this week and in reality, you look at the field and he he thinks he could be the establishment candidate again. and you know, it s also something to be said for having run a couple of tapes, he has got hiss down well, a good candidate, especially in the republican primaries, sitting, having to get out there and deal in the trenches, a lot of candidates. would he if jeb bush wants to run, does jeb bush sort of get right of first refusal, romney run if bush ran or only if bush doesn t? you know, he says he doesn t care what the bush what jeb bush would do. i don t think that s really true. i think if jeb bush gets in, he is going to throw a pretty wide net on the establishment money and support. kasie, i wonder what you make i saw this poll we put up there with bush at 14%, christie, 11%. we think of the bush name, we of the reputation this is the establishment guy this is the one they can all kind of rally around. i m saying, 14% awfully i remember when george w. bush set out in 2000 to run in polls lick this, he was at lick 40%. you re down to 14 now for jeb bush. are we overstating the appetite that s there in the republican party for him? i think that, look, very early polls of the an reflection of name recognition, the bush name is immediately gonna put you should be higher than 14, right? i think what it shows, unlike on the democratic side, hillary is absolutely blowing out the rest of the field there is no one dominant choice for republicans. they have a huge potential field and that s why i think these questions of who s in and who s out are actually going to end up being pretty critical. i would say, his name is there, but what you were talking about as far as who gets the early money, who gets the establishment support, that s gonna sort of say, signal who on that giant long list of candidates, which ones are gonna get squeezed out before they even really have a chance to step forward and to move their number up higher? mark mckinnon, quick one-word answer here, we know he is interested in jeb bush, do you think he runs, yes or no? i think s in. all right. held you to the one-word answer. holding to you that, mark. mark mckinnon, appreciate you joining us from the daily beast. ms in. bc s kasie hunt. thank you for being with us this morning. election night is not over yet, the official final close 33 days later on the other sid of this break. still ahead this morning, our interview with bernie sanders. stay with us. rol. enthusiast. mmm, a perfect 177-degrees. and that s why this road warrior rents from national. i can bypass the counter and go straight to my car. and i don t have to talk to any humans, unless i want to. and i don t. and national lets me choose any car in the aisle. control. it s so, what s the word?. sexy. go national. go like a pro. you know i tried one of those but the roll just disappeared. bounty is 2x more absorbent so one roll lasts longer. bounty. the long lasting picker upper come in and use your starbucks gift card any day through january 5th for a chance to win starbucks for life. i have $40,ney do you have in your pocket right now? $21. could something that small make an impact on something as big as your retirement? i don t think so. well if you start putting that towards your retirement every week and let it grow over time, for twenty to thirty years, that retirement challenge might not seem so big after all. hi. i m new ensure active clear protein drink. clear huh? i m not juice or fancy water. i ve got 8 grams of protein. new ensure active clear protein. 8 grams protein. zero fat. ensure. take life in. my baby drove up in a brand new cadillac. my baby drove up in a brand new cadillac. look here, daddy, i m never coming back. discover the new spirit of cadillac and the best offers of the season. lease this 2015 standard collection ats for around $329 a month. we have breaking election news for, nbc news has now called the 36th and final senate election of the year. louisiana democratic senator mary landrieu has officially now been defeated in her bid a fourth term. this in last night s runoff, she lost by a sound margin. bill cassidy, the republican congressman, 56%, landrieu, only 44% that will make cassidy the 54th republican vote mitch mcconnell s new republican senate majority in january. with landrieu s defeat, there will be no democratic senators left from a deep south state. and our next hour, we are going to explore what happened to the southern democrats taking the deep dive with an assist from our big board. but up first, colonel jack jacobs will get a turn of his own at the big board to help explain what went wrong in that failed hostage rescue in yemen but. enweslplus, wesley clark wi here to explain his analysis. stay with us. i have a cold with terrible chest congestion. better take something. theraflu severe cold doesn t treat chest congestion. really? 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what s supposed to happen there is a lot of planning, meticulous execution and in order to do that, lots and lots of rehearsals but they didn t have the luxury of time here because the expectation was that al qaeda was gonna execute somers so they had to just go with whatever they had. they had a plan and to execute it as quickly as possible, without all the rehearsals that were necessary under normal circumstances. you re in an area over here, the objective is somewhere in south central yemen and you position the assets nearby in the gulf of aden. in this particular case, aboard the uss macon , a ship that typically has lots of rotary winged aircraft, including blackhawks and ospreys like this, tiltrotor aircraft, carry a lot of special operators into the objective area. once you re there, you figure out exactly where you re gonna go, let s say this is the objective, small compound in south central yemen. you don t want to land on top of the objective, cause you lose the element of surprise. instead, you land some distance away where they can t hear you and then infiltrate your force under the cover of darkness, took place after midnight and then attract objective. in this instance, they were alerted there were some people who were awake, they saw the attacking force and as a result, a firefight ensued. once the firefight s over, you secure the objective and then you bring in rotary winged aircraft, like the ospreys and blackhawks in order to evacuate casualties, enemy who are captured, intelligence material, the hostages and so on, you bring them back to the uss macon or a similar ship and then out of the area. this is an extremely difficult operation to pull off and much, much different than a lot of the operations people have in mind using special operations forces. yeah, colonel, on that, what do we have a sense, when talking about going into a place lake this where you re trying to rescue people, trying to get them out alive, what the odds are of success for pulling something like this off. not as good as going in, for example, going in and getting osama bin laden if you re going to attack to kill or capture enemy, oddly, it s much easier to do that than it is to go into an area like this and not only kill or capture the enemy, but be able to isolate the hostages from the enemy and bring the hostages out alive, extremely difficult to do. doesn t succeed nearly as often as the as the attacks to kill and capture the enemy, very, very tough operation. and done with very little warning. so these things, your honor to the unfortunately, don t come out successfully. we haven t learned the details yet, any lessons that jump out to you from the experience in this failed mission that we could learn for future ones? you know, we had the opportunity to do this before and the mission failed. the mission failed, went about a couple of weeks ago to go snatch him but we didn t get him, we didn t get him because the intelligence wasn t up to speed. they had moved somers just a day before we went into the area. we were able to get some other hostage bus not somers and points out how important good intelligence is. overhead satellites, we do a lot of that, eavesdropping on telephone conversations. there s nothing there s nothing that will compete with good intelligence that will contribute to the successful accomplishment of the mission and so, the lesson here is you got to be vigilant. you got to keep on top of the intelligence. any time somebody is moved, you got to know about it and you have to be able to develop intelligence on the ground. extremely difficult to do in a place like this. in other areas like iraq and afghanistan, they built up areas lots easier because we have people on the ground talking to other people on the ground, place like this, extremely difficult to do. so, the lesson here is stay on top of your intelligence. all right, colonel jacobs, the big board used for non-election stuff, very good job, very informative. appreciate that. straight ahead, we will continue this conversation from the perspective of a retired four-star general, former nato supreme commander wesley clark will be here later. and senator bernie sanders joins us with not just the will he or won t he question about running for president but also the why. you won t want to in miss that. stay with us. it s not about how many miles you can get out of the c-max hybrid. it s about how much life you can fit into it. the ford c-max hybrid. with an epa-estimated range of 540 miles on a tank of gas. and all the room you need to enjoy the trip. go stretch out. go further. don t drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who have had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. having less pain. it s a great feeling. ask your doctor about lyrica today. it s specific treatment for diabetic nerve pain. is t did the u.s. have any choice? thanks for staying with us this sunday morning. next week at this time, the federal government could be shut down, yet again. we are gonna ask two prominent congressmen, one democrat, one republican, whether a deal can be reached before this friday s deadline. also senator bernie sanders from vermont will be here to talk about his plan to rebuild the middle class and maybe his plans to run in 2016. we begin this hour with the new details emerging this morning about the failed operation to rescue american hostage, luke somers. he and another hostage from south africa were killed in the raid bay the al qaeda militants who had been holding them. nbc s kristen welker joining us live from the north lawn of the white house with the latest. kristen? reporter: steve, good morning. i have been talking to senior administrations officials throughout the weekend and one u.s. official describes the rescue mission as a multiagency whole of government effort. it started overnight on thursday. you will remember that s when have a of luke somers was leased by his al qaeda captors who threatened to kill him on saturday. so, we are talking about yesterday. intelligence officials say that they determined the threat was credible. they believe that somers captors would, in fact, kill him yesterday. they also had credible intelligence about somers whereabouts base olden their part to initially rescue him. you will recall that happened last month, steve. all of that set off a series of meetings from the pentagon, the state department and right here at the white house. on friday, the president s national security team, i am told, recommended unanimously that mr. obama approve the mission. he and secretary of defense chuck hagel, who is, of course, outgoing, gave the green light on friday morning. here is how the mission all went down. on friday night, dozens of navy s.e.a.l.s landed about two miles from their target. the american commandos reached what is being described as a cluster of buildings and this s where somers was being held. once the al qaeda captors realized what was happening though, that s when a gun fight broke out. somers and that south african who you mentioned, pierre korkie, were discovered gravely wounded, apparently shot by their captors. they were airlifted, treated by medics, airlifted to as you navy ship but both ultimately died of their wounds. now the u.s. special forces did kill between six to nine al qaeda captors and i am told at this point, it appears as though no civilians were killed when ask if the white house had second thoughts about the mission, one u.s. official told merck look, the president still feels it was the right decision to try to rescue somers because the intelligence about his location was reliable, he was in that exact location. in a statement yesterday, president obama said the u.s. would spare no effort to use all of its military intelligence and diplomatic capabilities to bring americans home safely wherever they are located. meanwhile, steve, we are also hearing from his friends and his colleagues today in a statement, his stepmother describes somers as a talented photographer with a sensitive for the people and people s lives. i spoke with one of his colleagues who works at pbs news hour but who had spent some time in yemen as well, steve. that person telling me that he just can t believe that this happened to luke somers. that entire community of people who are his friends and his family just in shock this morning. steve? all right, kristen welker live at the white house. thanks for joining us this morning much appreciate that. absolutely. thanks. we are joined nowby retired u.s. army general, wesley clark, former supreme allied commander of nato, former presidential candidate, also author. new book don t wait fort next war. general, welcome, thanks for being with us. so i mean, listening to what kristen just outlined there, it certainly seems, you know, seems like there was no choice but to take a shot at this, the alternative, they were gonna kill him anyway. the same time, you hear about how this went down, basically, the minute that al qaeda realized that there was a rescue attempt being made, they went in and killed him. and it just raises the question, how can you get these hostages out alive if that s what you re facing? sometimes you can get in there with good ingems and you can surprise the enemy and you can get the hostage, sometimes you re not going to succeed. all everyone connected in this operation understood the risks but you re faced with the issue of do you let it happen or do you take action, because it s not only about the life of that hostage. in this case, two hostages, but it s also about how you protect americans going forward. it s about whether you increase the value of americans as targets for terrorist kidnappings or whether you put fear in the hearts of al qaeda and convince them that they will never get away with it. maybe you won t rescue every hostage, but you will never had a team that s holding those hostages that s ever safe and secure. and we will destroy those people who are taking those hostages, time after time, whenever they attempt to do some and that s the united states policy. this is a long, multiyear, maybe multidecade effort in this region. we are gonna see more of this, as long as they continue to take americans hostage. and i hope the united states is gonna be effective in persuading other governments, including governments like the government of south africa, which reportedly paid money to have the other hostage released, not to do that. we have got to work together and we have got to break this al qaeda hostage taking. let me ask you this, i just cause this summer and early fall, we had a spate of stories about isis, isis taking hostages, beheading them, being paid ransoms by some european governments, the united states, the uk refusing to do so. this is a different group this is al qaeda in the arabian peninsula doing this is there do you have a sense that maybe there are other groups like this group, like al qaeda and the arabian peninsula that maybe saw what isis was doing this summer and sort of a copycat thing now? well, it s the way the terrorists can make money. so, if? a tactic that works, then there will be copycat cells all over north africa kand the middle east who will look for americans who were in there for all the right reasons. they will seize them, they will demand payments. they will hold them. so, this is a problem throughout the region, it s not just a single organization, it s the way they make money. the reports from last summer indicated that isis had made millions and millions of dollars from hostage taking. we know this somali pirates in an earlier period were making money off hostage taking and we know we have terrorist cells across north africa and into countries like nigeria with boko haram, who would do this if they could get their hands on the right americans and thought they could pull it off or the right europeans. so, yes this is a threat throughout the region. the other thing is i wonder what you would say, how would you say, from a standpoint of policy, let me put it this way, from a standpoint of policy what you are saying about why we should never pay ransoms, i totally understand, the policy of the united states, but when talking to one of these families has a son, a daughter, who is being held by these groups, and that family is made aware that, hey, if we can just raised 1 million, $2 million, somehow we can come one that money ourselves, we will see our son again and if we don t, we won t. how do you tell that family to resist that urge? well, there s two issues here, one is even if the money s raised, you may or may not get your loved one back, because delivering this money and having the hostage released, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn t, sometimes it s a matter of back and forth communication is the price gets raised. secondly, i think that all the american people and those families know that they want their government to be involved trying to bring these people back to freedom. now, these european governments, south african governments, they don t have the capacities to mount a rescue operation. so, they buy it off. but by buying it off, you re feeding the threat and you re making more likely that other families and other loved ones will suffer the same fate afterwards. so i think in this case, it s one of those terrible things, if you re a family and you ve got a loved one that s going into that area, then i think you have to be aware of the risks and you have to really think again about doing this, because these people are in danger, they are targeted, they are like a walking cash cow for terrorists. so, got to really think hard about whether we want to do that or not. we obviously had the intelligence, sufficient intelligence to find out pretty much exactly where they were being held, the two hostages being held for this mission to begin and apparently, previous effort recently where they had been moved at the last minute which raises the question, a group like al qaedaed in the arabian peninsula, groups like isis, we always talk about our intelligence to find out where they are, how good is their intelligence to know where we are? well, they do have intelligence, you know, and they are getting better and better at it you know, a decade ago when the united states first started, it wasn t that easy for them they didn t understand the technology, the techniques, the hard wake the way we operate, they have gotten better and better at this, yes, you can buy commercial satellite imagery. you can probably buy electronic eavesdropping. you can listen on youtube and hear people talk and report things that perhaps shouldn t be reported. we are getting a tremendous amount of information, let s say, about russian activities in ukraine by simply monitoring youtube and watching what people post on facebook. so, there are ways in which information leaks out, but i d like to think that our ability to protect our own movements and our own intentions is pretty good. and it s able to be controlled and especially when you have an aircraft carrier or an am fab off the coast like this and it s moving. yes, it may have been seen in a port and yes, there may be fishermen out there who can see things and who knows, but we know how to sanitize that area, if we have to. and we can do that. so, i m sure we will be tightening up our own intelligence and counterintelligence procedures after this. all right, retired army general wesley clark, thanks for joining us this morning. thank you. all right, how the holidays are threatening to bring another government shutdown bay the end of this week. we will investigate the why and whether it can be prevented with two people in a position to stop it. that s next. i was just looking at your credit report site. do you guys have identity theft protection? 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republican congressman charlie dent of pennsylvania, democrat bill pascrell of new jersey, both sides of the aisle, they join us now. thanks for joining us. congressman dent, i will start with you on the republican side, how confident are you right now that there will not be a shutdown this week? i am very confident there is not going to be shut down. i thank you a lot of my colleagues learned a regard lesson a little over a year ago and certainly no education to be gained by the second kick of the mule and certainly no wisdom from the third or fourth kick. but to listen to some of the rhetoric coming out of there, it sounds like there s an appetite, especially because this executive action thing, to find some way to undo it through playing with funding for dhs and well there are a handful of members who, you know, i think would take must that direction. but overwhelmingly, think most of the members in the house, you know, want to pass the cromny bus or omnibus or at least move forward, clear the decks now so we can start the new year with a fresh agenda. congressman pascrell, it might come to you as a democrat to provide a critical vote to get this thing passed, if a handful of republican, a dozen of them, a couple dozen of them say, you know, this isn t enough, we don t want to vote for this bill, you re going to need democrats to get it across, this bill, the one we outlined there, something we have to live with? we have to pass the legislation but we don t have to be handmaidens, we don t have to let them vote first and then vote, let them put up their votes, not all of the let it go down and then let it come back or yeah, it s some way it will pass, hopefully by 3:00 thursday afternoon. some way it will pass. but we don t have reasonable members, like charlie kent accident on the other side. charlie dent is not an exception, a lot of good republicans who think and try to resolve their problems. but the majority, i think, are caught up in being pushed by the tea party folks and they have gotten away with it for a couple of years and they are going to continue to do it. i mean, they use this immigration thing as an excuse, if it wasn t immigration, it would be something else. there s no doubt about t. they want the showdown. absolutely, they want a showdown on every situation. and to hold homeland security hostage, charlie, to me, is a pretty particularly in the situation we are going to right now throughout the world, is not the right way to do this. in my opinion. so, if this gets through this week, it means that funding for the whole government is basically good for a year, except funding for the department of homeland security, which would come up again early next year and then your party or would want to fight that all over again then? no, actually, my preference is to pass an omnibus, all 12 you want everything passed? i want it all passed. what they are putting together not 12. i serve on the homeland security committee and i helped draft that bill, a lot of good stuff in there, i don t particularly want to cr that, kick that into the new year because come february or march, we will pass the homeland security at prop preyations bill, i would just assume pass it now, this week. that s my preference, if the votes aren t there bill said s clever guy, bill, he is a friend, look, he is smart, he thinks the republicans, the republicans should put the votes up, 218 before one democrat should vote for it i don t blame them. what i would do but we should but the point is if there aren t the votes for the cromny bus, i would say pass the omnibus. the way it was explained to merck the sort of tea party crowd wants to fight over the immigration executive action and that, hence they want to put dhs funding on the table. but even if you stopped dhs funding, the way this thing is being implemented it would still go forward is that right? pretty much. much of the u.s. citizens immigration service, uscis is funding through fees and they are gonna get their fees, regardless. so, yeah, i don t think it s a particularly good tactic. i think the way that we republicans should respond to the president s executive action on immigration is by passing some immigration bills in the new year. that s what the president wants. and that s exactly what the president s strategy is, charlie and that is you have the senate bill for so long, you didn t do anything. i don t mean you personally, you didn t do it, the president said i m going to do something about tax critical thing. if immigration is broken, this is my response to it and you have time to pass legislation to undo what i m trying to do rather than let s go to court, let sue the president. come on, that s not gonna go any place. well, first, look, the president s executive action, i think he overstepped his authority, even the washington post editorialized this is a sweeping step. that said well, they are not the litmus test of what s legal and not legal here. this is a whole class of people that the president has, you know, has suspended deportations from. i think this is unprecedented. you agree with it though? what if we voted on that tomorrow? what if we voted to do what the president did in executive orderer? would you vote for that? let me tell you what i will do. i will vote on a step-by-step basis for several immigration bills. i don t want to do one big comprehensive bill. i want to do border security, i want to do interior enforcement, e-verify, children, you can accompanied children and i m prepared to have an honest, adult conversation about the 11 million people in this country unlawfully and deal with them in a way that i think will be and you may. you want to deal with them humanelism and i well, congressman that might be with the republicans increasing their majority in the house that sort of piecemeal approach, what goodlatte has been talking about that may be the reality of what they pursue there, do you see any common ground there, okay there under certain circumstances? most of what they might suggest and i haven t seen it in writing about we do this individually, step-by-step, i can agree with. i wish they could have done that with health care, but they didn t, chose not to do that. i think that we are gonna have a long fight over immigration regardless of what happens, whether the president did this last week or not, doesn t matter. i think we are going to have a long fight over. this and i think border security is a ruse. i think if it wasn t that, they would get something else in order to hold up immigration. the system is broken, we need a change and if the chamber of commerce is for it, it can t be so bad, charlie. let me ask but this, we have limited time left, cause we heard this after the 2012 election, if there s one thing the two parties are gonna agree on after this, it s immigration reform. we just finished the 2014 election, didn t happen. by the time the 2016 election comes around, do you think congress will have passed ant president will have signed some comp mean sive form of immigration reform? yes. i believe we will see some progress on immigration reform. i can t say we will pass every piece of it but i think certainly think you will see it on things like border security, e-verify, s.t.e.m. workers and hopefully agricultural workers at the very least, maybe the children. senator a little less confident. my thanks to bill pascrell from new jersey, charlie dent from pennsylvania. appreciate you joining us this morning. a new proposal by president obama to improve policing but will it work? that s next. right strip and pow, it opens your nose up to 38% more. so you can breathe and do the one thing you want to do, sleep. add breathe right to your cold medicine shut your mouth and sleep right. breathe right. and look for the calming scent of new breathe right lavender, in the sleep aisle. last night, police used tear gas to disburperse protesters i berkeley, california. some in the crowd broke windows and looted stores. one of the demands made by protesters in recent weeks, demand made by the family of unarmed teen michael brown who was killed by police officer darren wilson in august and demand has been for police to wear body cameras to capture their interactions with the public. and that idea got a major boost this week from president obama. the president is proposing $75 million in federal spending to help state and local police departments outfit their officers with cameras. i think ferguson laid bare a problem that is not unique to st. louis or that area, and is not unique to our time. and that is a simmering distrust that exists between too many police departments and too many communities of color. i m going to be proposing some new community policing initiatives that will significantly expand funding and training for local law enforcement, including up to 50,000 additional body-worn cameras for law enforcement agencies. obama s proposal follows experiments with body cameras in cities nationwide. new york city the nation s largest police force, started their body cam pilot program this weekend. but then in new york city this week, this also happened, a grand jury dexlined to indict new york city police officer daniel pantaleo in the choke hold death of eric garner, even though garner s death was recorded on camera by a bystander. even after seeing garner held by the throat by police, even after hearing garner cry i can t breathe 11 times, the grand jury still declined to issue an indictment. are body cameras the policy response we need to improve law enforce n this country? joining me to answer that question, baltimore mayor stephanie rollins blake, who spores body cameras but vetoed a city council bill on several concerns, including privacy and with us is former police officer and prosecutor eugene o donnell, professor at john jay college of criminal justice. mare blake, i will start with you. here s what i m interested in. you support cod body cameras and vetoed bill for technical reasons this week. i m curious, we talk in the big picture about body camera, how does this work, in terms of how often do the cameras have to be on? are they on 24/7? does the officer control who turns them on or off? does the public have access to, you know, can we get the recordings from officer charge. ? how will it work, practically speaking? and those are the reasons, those questions that you asked should have been asked by the council before they passed that bill. they have a bill that required the officers to wear the body cams, but they didn t even require that they turn them on. we have to be more thoughtful and thorough if we are going to get this right and we have to answer those questions. tough answer those questions because what happens if a camera is on and a woman calls for a domestic violence complaint? the officer responds, she is battered, she is bruised, what if that becomes public information? we have to deal with those privacy concerns. how would you, as the mare, see it work, practically speaking? well, what i want to do is what we are doing, we have a work group with the aclu, we have lawyers, we have community members, we have law enforcement people that are all looking at these issues and working together to come out with something that works for baltimore. this isn t a cookie cutter approach. this san approach that i believe needs to be led and included the community needs to be included to make sure we get it right, that s what i m doing and looking forward to getting that report next month so we can do the implementation and make sure it works. so, eugene, obviously, law enforcement background, this is now happening in new york city happening elsewhere, what is the reaction of the average cop being told you are wearing a camera now, what do you think about that? i say we have to have an honest conversation about policing, they use force and it s never pretty and they are not automatically protected and they could become averse to involvement. we have a lot of police departments in the country that are basically employment agencies, the cops drive around, they get there late, they don t engage, struggle on 8th street, slow on 10th street. i have serious doubts whether this will be beneficial, keep our equilibrium, issues about brutality, acknowledge cities in the country, minority communities, the communities asking for police to engage not disengage, very concerned about this looks like mayor walsh in boston also has concerns whether this is going to make cops take steps back. you re saying the cop may be pauses, maybe thinks twice, maybe says, it s not necessarily we talk about these dramatic and horrible situations that make the news, but it s more every day stuff that people might might be able to quibble with and say that s little over the line or a little tough, whatever, it is really every day policing? i have to say bluntly, i see some real class issues here in terms of the expectation, the cops are unwise enough to get theseselves into these situations, they don t have, again, automatic protection, every time they engage somebody, they could be indicted that makes their job unique and the idea that we are going to look at a video, ex post facto, when they are in these sometimes life and death situations and say for eight seconds, it was okay, the ninth second was not okay, i think we have to take a step become on that and have a police industrial complex, tasers, tasers selling cameras and they are pushing this stuff. tasers may make the police more violent. no the sure about that. so we have to have some real, honest conversations, probably not a great time to have a full-scale conversation about this. well, mayor, i m curious, just listening to what eugene just said, curious what your response is. i think eugene makes a good point, i think in far too many places around the country, there s a knee jerk reaction, get cameras on police as soon as possible without asking the tough questions and without understanding that this is not a body cameras respect going to solve all of our problems and the eric garner case, there was tape and the community is still concern and the family is still upset and we have protests all throughout the country, not because the camera there wasn t footage of it, but because of the outcome, it s clear that we need a holistic approach, including work that like we are doing in baltimore. i asked the department of justice to come in to help us with our community policing efforts, we have to do better with training. it s clear that cameras are one thing, but it has to include the types of training and the types of engagement that rebuilds the trust that the community and the police need to have with each other. you know, it s important, the people are saying all around the country, when you see these protesters saying something very loud and clear, is do you hear me? do you see me? do i matter? and with proper community policing, that s when we get that right, that we can show the community, yes, they do matter and yes, you know this is a partnership, a true partnership. all right, baltimore mayor stephanie rawlings-blake, former prosecutor, eugene o donnell, thanks for joining us this morning. thanks a lot. senator bernie sanders, our interview with him. and up next, the president s weekend doesn t go exactly as planned. interesting detail there is on the other side of the break. and the legion of super fans. wow! 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progresso! it s ok that your soup tastes like my homemade. it s our slow simmered vegetables and tender white meat chicken. apology accepted. i m watching you soup people. make it progresso or make it yourself we ll have given 50 million dollars over seven years. love. it s what makes a subaru, a subaru. that is mary landrieu, senator mary landrieu from louisiana, addressing her supporters last night in louisiana. we can show you what happened. this is it. this is the final outstanding senate race of 2014. this was the runoff in louisiana, mary landrieu, a three-term democratic incumbent, she was defeated last night by congressman bill cassidy, a republican. bill cassidy will now become the 54th republican in the new senate in january. remember, just two years ago, republicans were left with 45 that means they have gained a total of nine seats in the senate in the 2014 midterms.what s so interesting about these numbers here, in the original election, in the jungle primary a month ago, mary landrieu came in with 42%, in the mons since then, stayed right there climbed a point or two, what happened was there was another republican candidate in that jungle primary and basically, all those votes went to bill cassidy and that s the story of it. mary landrieu loses by 12 points. again, we can see inside the numbers here exactly how this happened. there was no exit poll last night, we can t break this down too exactly. i think we have a pretty good scene what is going on here, look back to 2008, the last time mary landrieu was re-elected, 52% of the vote, got re-elected in 2008. if you look at the white vote in louisiana, these are voters will once, a generation ago two generations ago, all democratic, steadily moving to the republican party in 2008, mary landrieu was still able to get 33% of them. in the jingle primary a month ago when she just got 42%, look at that, she only got 18% of the white vote. looks like she is stuck around that number. again, we don t have actual exit polls from last night, my guess would be she is at or below 20%. when you are a democrat, when you are in the south, when you are at or below 20% of the white vote, you are not going to be winning anymore. that is why we are saying this is a story about mary landrieu, about louisiana, this is a much bigger story about the south and about the evolution of american politics, really over the last 50 years. and what i mean by that is let s look back 50 years ago, 1964, this is the south in 1964. these are the states of the old confedera confederacy, senate representation from those state, every states blue, two democratic senators, they all had two democratic senators, texas had one republican, john tower, the other democrat, a total in the south 50 years ago of 21 democratic senators and just one republican. that s how dominant the democratic party was in the south, the democratic party in the south was defined by conservative whites back then, many african-americans couldn t even vote in the south in 1964. you had the civil rights revolution, the voting rights act, demographics changed in the south. look at this now. 50 years later, after last night, accounting for louisiana now electing another republican senator this is what the south now looks like. you have two democratic senators from virginia. and virginia is a state that demographically is becoming more and more northern, a lot of people from the north moving in. that s one of the reasons it s become so blue and florida, you have a democratic senator, again, florida, another state where the demographics have been changed by northerners moving down, beyond that you don t have a single democratic senator left in the entire south. now louisiana is all republican after last night for the first time since reconstruction, a total of 19 republicans in the south, just three democrats, mary landrieu was the last deep south democrat left in the senate. so it s basically a complete flip from where this country was 50 years ago. that s the bigger story about what happened last night. one other thing we want to note in louisiana, i would be remiss if i did not mention there was a runoff for a congressional seat, you see here edwin edwards, the democrat, losing, not surprising he lost by this much, very republican district but edwin edwards, if you know this name, a throwback politician, think of the days like huey long, the rogue politician, he was the governor of this state, of the state of louisiana four different times, did he time in federal prison. he ran, in fact in 1991, he ran for governor, famous race, his opponent was david duke, the former klan leader, the bumper sticker for edwin edwards says vote fort crook, it s important and he won that race easily. get out of jail a few years ago, 87 years old, figured what do i do with my life, hey, i m in politics run for office. he ran in this election, nobody expected him to win but looks like this might be the end of the line for the political career of edwin edwards. funny story, he was asked last night what are your plans now after you have lost? i m going who emto get some sleep? what are you going to do after that? well, i will wake up and i will have breakfast. so, edwin edwards, very colorful career, looks like it might have come to an end last night, that is the story from louisiana. and up next, that interview we have been talking about all morning with bernie sanders, talk to him about maybe running for president. that s next. right now, you can get a single line with 3 gigs for $65 a month. 3 gigs . is that a lot? that s about.100 app downloads, 45 hours of streaming music, and 6 hours of video playing. 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the answer is yes. i think if the president remains strong and if we can rally the american people to demand the congress start working on the disappearing middle class and the growing gap between the rich and the poor, i think we can implement some important policies. right now the fastest way to create the millions of jobs we desperately need is by rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure, our roads, bridges, water systems, rail, et cetera. if we invested $1 trillion over a period of years, we can create 13 million jobs. you know why i m sorry, senator, do you think that level of investment, given everything we have seen from the republican republican house over the last four years, do you think that level of investment or anything approaching it is realistic to come out of the republican congress? well, you re right. i don t think we will get as much as i want or as much as we need. on the other hand, you have conservatives like jim iminoff of the public works committee who does believe in infrastructure as well as other republican senators and members of the house. so i do hope with the president s support that we can begin substantially investing in infrastructure and creating jobs. other area, i think the minimum wage at $7.25 an hour is a starvation wage. i think it has to be raised over a period of time to $15 an hour. but you have people like mitt romney and other republicans talking about raising the minimum wage. you have four conservative states in the last election voting to raise the minimum wage. do i think the republicans are smart enough to know this is an issue they can move on? i do, and i hope we can make progress there as well. as i said, it s something people can look at and say, bernie sanders is exploring a bid for president, a platform to run for president, one of the things people look at is hillary clinton is the big front-runner, everybody acknowledges that on the democratic side right now. when you look at the principle that is you laid out here, the 12 steps you laid out here, realistically, do you believe hillary clinton is in line with you on them or are there differences you see with her potentially? my suggestion is to ask hillary clinton about her views on this. i can t speak for hillary clinton. what i do know is virtually every one of the issues, infrastructure, raising the minimum wage, paid equity, transforming the energy system, demanding and passing legislation, to ask the wealthiest people in the largest corporations of this country to start paying their fair share of taxes. you know what? these are very popular issues that go across the political spectrum. the american people know there s something wrong when the middle class is disappearing and 95% of all new income today goes to the top 1%. so that is an important set of principles that any serious candidate should run on. yeah, and i guess what i wonder about is when i listen to democrats, and this includes hillary clinton, she hasn t said too much specifically, that s sort of by design the last few months, but when i listen to her speak in broad terms of principle, i hear what you just said. pay equity, closing the gap between rich and poor in this country, eliminating economic inequality. i hear that from her and every big name democrat out there. it seems on the core principles, i don t hear much difference between you and most other democrats in washington. so where are the differences that would encourage you to run for president? really? i have spent my entire political career taking on every special interest. that s one thing for somebody to talk about, well, we have to expand the middle class, we have to create jobs, everybody says that. including republicans. i think what you have to look at with the specifics of the program that people are outlining, i will be outlining a very specific program within the next few months. senator, that s what i m asking you there, in terms of when you get beyond the broad strokes rhetoric here, i agree with you, you hear that from everybody, so when you look at the democratic party and the leaders of the democratic party, where are they falling short specifically? well, we need, for example, we are losing $100 billion every single year because corporations are stashing their money, their profits in the caymen islands and bermuda. i m going to bring forward and have brought forward legislation to end that absurd practice. i happen to believe that the united states should not be the only major country on earth that does not guarantee health care to all people to a national health care program. i support a single pay and national health care program. i happen to believe that our current trade policies, nafta, permanent normal trade relations with china are a disaster which have lost us millions of jobs and going abroad to countries. i want to change fundamentally trade policies so companies reinvest in america, not china. are those the issues you hear from a lot of folks? if you do go ahead and run in the democratic primaries, you have to change your party registration to become a democrat. that s something you have not been throughout your political career are. you comfortable potentially making that step? well, that s an issue i m talking, a, i don t know if i m going to run or not. look, steve, if you run a campaign based on the principles i believe in, which is ultimately we don t make change in this country unless we take on the billionaire class, which now has so much economic and political power. in order to do that, you need to run an unprecedented grassroots campaign. are there millions of people who are prepared to stand up and work really, really hard? getting involved in that kind of campaign. you know what? you don t know that, i don t know that. i have to determine that before i make a decision. what you re asking me is i m the longest serving end pindependen the united states congress. if i do pursue the campaign, can i do it in the structural of the democratic party or outside the party? that s a difficult question. i m also trying to get some understanding of where people are coming on that. there are positives and negatives of either approach. and where at this point in terms of your decision, do you have a sense of when you ll have a decision made? i ll make it at the appropriate time. i think people in this country are not necessarily sympathetic to never-ending campaigns. so i think we have some time to do it. on the other hand, obviously, there s a point if you re going to go forward where you have to make a decision. senator bernie sanders, independent, at least for now from vermont. appreciate you taking the time this morning. appreciate that. thank you, steve. all right. bernie sanders, we ll keep an eye out on what he does. we have a few extra seconds at the end of the show, so i want to give a shout-out to a team you have never heard of. the new jersey institute of technology. the hilanders, the only independent team in all of college that went to the university of michigan yesterday. it was their first time ever playing a ranked team. just recently they had a 5 51-losing streak and yesterday they won. congratulations to the hilanders. thank you for joining us this weekend. we ll be back next sunday at 8:00 a.m. coming up next is melissa harris-perry. we ll see you next week on up. mmm mmm mmm mm mmm mm mmmmmm here we go, here we go, here we go. fifty omaha set hut losing feeling in my toes nothing beats that new car smell chicken parm you taste so good nationwide is on your side mmm mmm mmm mm mmm mm mmmmmm goodnight. goodnight. for those kept awake by pain. the night is anything but good. introducing new aleve pm. the first to combine a safe sleep aid. plus the 12 hour strength of aleve. for pain relief that can last until the am. now you can have a good night and a. good morning! new aleve pm. for a better am. for most people, earning cash back ends here, at the purchase. but there s a new card in town. introducing the citi® double cash card. it lets you earn cash back when you buy and again as you pay. that s cash back twice. it s cash back with a side of cash back. the citi double cash card. the only card that lets you earn cash back twice on every purchase with 1% when you buy and 1% as you pay . with two ways to earn, it makes a lot of other cards seem one-sided. americans drink 48 billion that s enough plastic bottles to stretch around the earth 230 times. each brita filter can replace 300 of those. clean. clear. brita water. nothing is better. ring ring! .progresso! you soup people have my kids loving vegetables. well vegetables. shh! taste better in our savory broth. vegetables!? 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