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Become -- so many people have become so hard hearted. when you read the bible about this and it says that there were people who were hard hearted and they did unbelievable things to other human beings, we don't have this right. >> but governor -- >> we do not have the right to not treat our children with great love and kindness. >> but the president put in this today. he has children. he has grandchildren. where is his empathy? >> i don't know. unless they are thinking, well, you know, we'll go through the pain here and it will fix everything. it will not. and children are not to be used as a ...

This. why isn't the president overruling john kelly? >> well, maybe he will. i think here is the problem. you are the president of the united states. you are dealing with north korea. you want to denuclearize north korea. you are working on policy that leads to economic growth. >> he has a lot on his plate but he can stop it with a phone call. >> i think it is coming into his focus now. i think it is inside his cross hairs now. he is just back from a historic trip. you will see de-nuclearization of north korea. the economy is booming. don't let this be a distraction going into the mid terms el...

And two leaders who are going to sit down and talk together like peers. >> then there's this whole notion of denuclearization. what does that mean? it depends on which side you're talking to. marco rubio said he doesn't think kim would ever denuclearize, he he was. >> i remain convinced that he does not want to denuclearize. he will not denuclearize. he wants to give off this perception he's an open leader, peaceful, reasonable. >> you say kim may be walking away with a stronger hand. kim would never denuclearize, and on the leverage point you say the u.s. has less leverage than it thinks in t...

It is a good leverage point. >> lisa: the president is all about leverage, i think that's primarily what the recent tariffs are about as well. he left the door open for mexico and canada while renegotiating nafta. same thing with china. there is a former bush advisor who said this is the most he's ever seen china willing to negotiate like this. i think what president trump does, he lays down these markers and the intention is to draw closer to where he is and where he wants them to be on the issu issue. >> jessica: i think that is what he wants to be happening. there is a question, what a prec...

Whether this is kim persuading china to be less cooperative with the united states or the other way around, we don't actually know. you heard all of those completely noncommittal statements from sarah huckabee sanders, it indicates the fact that the united states does not know exactly how this surprise meeting plays out in the trump-kim dynamic. >> bret: for the longest time, the onus was on china. if we could get china to do more, maybe it would advance the ball. china has used north korea as sort of a leverage point with the u.s. the question is, what is happening now? >> i looked at the pic...