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sanders at 10. they're way down. i'm joined by sam stein, and jamal simmonds, who is a democratic strategist. here is a weirdo. they have one guy who can clearly beat trump and they're beating the hell out of him. >> the process of winning the nomination means going after the front-runner, right? even though his numbers are great against trump comparative to other candidates, what are they supposed to do? just let him coast? >> i'm asking. it means new democratic coalition or november doesn't count. we're just here to beat the moderates and then we're going to have a celebration. your thoughts. >> one, the electorate is very different than it was in the old days. >> oh, tell me how. >> well, it's more minority, it's younger, it's more female. and so i think this idea that democrats are going to go and run in -- i'm from michigan. i'm from detroit. we're going run in warren or oakland county with some uaw guy with a lunch pail, you know, we
>> i don't know about that. what about the voters? >> here's the interesting piece -- >> talk about winning a game, can you beat trump? >> you've got to get to the suburban, blue collar middle class voters. they need to start thinking about that obama/trump flip that happened in 2016 that again happened in 2018. if you don't focus on that, moderate swing voters. i am not going to vote for a progressive. i would vote for a joe biden, not a beto o'rourke. >> how do you get people in the industrial states who flipped for trump to senator and governor in michigan, minnesota, pennsylvania, the whole? >> i totally agree. it's like he's only talking about the primary, which is one thing. let's move on to the general election. >> you know what they used to say back in the '60s, ndc. november doesn't count. the hard-left would say as long as we win the primaries, it doesn't matter, jonchgeorge mcg. that mentality is out there. that beto o'rourke is too much like obama. that's a problem? he won. >> it's a problem if you are
best win the presidential election? there's an old phrase the democratic party in d.c., november doesn't count. those were the red hots on the left, always wanted to win the intramural fight, not necessarily went presidential election. and i'm wondering on the republican side, david, if you're any way of looking in these numbers and finding them where is the break point where people simply say my guy or my woman can't win, let me go with the win here will win in november? >> right. >> i'm wondering whether tonight we are not watching something early, early in the season, which is really not about who they are picking for president yet, but about who their heart has. >> well, and the fact that mitt romney -- right. and the fact that mitt romney was before this contest a weak front-runner, will he emerge from this contest still seen as a weak front runner? even if he wins, this will be argued back and forth different ways. santorum has clearly been successful, he was polling dead last. he has really showed up here, he gets a ticket out, as they say. ron paul is the wildcard f mitt
and that's our job. i'm not a politician. >> thank you. >> i don't work for the president. >> we believe government can do good things, the public working together. >> yeah. >> and liberalism by its nature means the market shouldn't rule. it can be perfected upon by public action. that's what liberalism is to me. you can make choices. you just don't listen to the markets. >> number one, i think that's good. that's an important role. number two, some of the criticisms are just flat right. like i say in the piece. the problem comes when liberals go from that, i'm disappointed with this, i'm disappointed with that, i want more here, to a general feeling of disappointed. oh, i'm let down, oh, this isn't what i expected because they're always let down. >> i know what you're talking about. joan, abstain for a second. i know what he's talking about which is basically in d.c. it's the -- we love to argue among ourselves. we love this. it's called ndc, november doesn't count. it's not about the general public. it's about us winning among ourselves. these arguments are why the democratic party tends to be the most exciting party because all these great arguments occur within the party. the fight over the vietnam war was within the party.
we push for values and we push for inclusion. and we push for social justice, and that's our job. i'm not a politician. >> thank you. >> i don't work for the president. >> we believe government can do% good things, the public working together. >> yeah. >> and liberalism by its nature means the market shouldn't rule. it can be perfected upon by public action. that's what liberalism is to me. you can make choices. you just don't listen to the markets. >> number one, i think that's good. that's an important role. number two, some of the criticisms are just flat right. like i say in the piece.ç the problem comes when liberals go from that, i'm disappointed with this, i'm disappointed with that, i want more here, to a general feeling of disappointed. oh, i'm let down, oh, this isn't what i expected because they're always let down. >> i know what you're talking about. joan, abstain for a second. i know what he's talking about which is basically in d.c. it's the -- we love to argue among ourselves. we love this. it's called ndc, november doesn't count. it's not about the general public. it's about us winning among ourselves. these arguments are why the democratic party tends to be the most exciting party because all these great arguments occur
welcome back to "hardball," how far will liberals go with president obama over this tax caught kut? how long will this the fight go on? activists mount a challenge against him to make it sweat it out? howard fineman the senior political ed for from the huffington post. he knows what is going on. msnbc analyst here and joan wall with shall is editor at cheer, in large, at salon.com. joan, with your smile, i have to go to you. i can't resist it one thing you know is if you have a primary challenge it is almost lethal to the incumbent, but apart from that people say november doesn't count, let's talk about primaries, they are funsome there any talk out there in the progressive world for somebody like feingold, lost his fight in minnesota or wisconsin rather or possibly howard dean, upset with
>> well, you know, i know about the left better than the right and there's just as much crap like that on the left. it was called ndc, november doesn't count, which is exactly like these ipos. as long as you win the primary we don't care who wins the general. we want to control the left. >> how can you do that ipo and rhino thing without claymation? seems to me -- >> is it true that people in delaware, for example, are happy they knocked off mike castle and are stuck with christine o'donnell? >> there are some people but the republicans will be able to finesse through november there is agreement about beating obama, getting control of congress back. i think everybody focused on how is the president going to react to the midterms. i think the republican party is in danger, maybe more, and this is a problem they have to solve. >> what happens when the eight guys win, the tea party senate nominees, i think a lot of these people could win. joe miller certainly win a general if he gets there he can and sharron angle is a point we saw tonight. ken buck pretty well positioned ahead of michael bennet in colorado.
republicans in name only and they are on the run from the ipos who are electable in primary only. so christine o'donnell is my ipo in chief because i don't think she can ever win a general election in delaware and i will put governor pail innocent mix. i think she is eminently able to be nominated by the republican a bitter could never win a general election for the presidency. but chris you can the people who are the ipos they can like it this way. they are just happy to be rid of the ripe knows and pragmatism is a dirty word. >> well, you know, i know about the left better than the right and there's just as much crap like that on the left. it was called ndc, november doesn't count, which is exactly like these ip ofs. as long as you win the primary we don't care who wins the general house. we want to control the left. >> how can you do that ipo and rhino thing without claymation? seems to me -- >> is it true that people in delaware, for example are happy they knocked off mike castle and are stuck with christine o'donele? >> >> there are some people but the republicans will be able to finesse there through november
the left better than the right and there's just as much crap like that on the left. it was called ndc, november doesn't count, which is exactly like these ipos. as long as you win the primary we don't care who wins the general. we want to control the left. >> how can you do that ipo and rhino thing without claymation? seems to me -- >> is it true that people in delaware, for example, are happy they knocked off mike castle and are stuck with christine o'donnell? >> there are some people but the republicans will be able to finesse through november there is agreement about beating obama, getting control of congress back. i think everybody focused on how is the president going to react to the midterms. i think the republican party is in danger, maybe more, and this is a problem they have to solve. >> what happens when the eight guys win, the tea party senate nominees, i think a lot of these people could win. joe miller certainly win a general if he gets there he can
people for the senate and taking people from nowhere and what are the consequences for the republican party to build their houses from nowhere? the boy can write. national journalist, columnist, you were writing all those speeches, 2004 campaign. and sam stein -- i can't resist the chance to start with a real republican. matt, this used to be what the democrats did. tear themselves apart. the old phrase was ndc, november doesn't count. just have a great time in the primaries, doesn't matter as long as it's fun. your party seems to be doing that right now. maybe it will work. >> i don't know if many republicans would consider me a real republican since i have broken with real republicans on it, but i think what this is a reflection of is the frustration and anger that exists in america. and broadly, it's frustration, but in the republican primary,