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So i think you have democrats on capitol hill who aren't just going to be able to dismiss these things just because there's no easy answer to what to do about a presidential pattern and practice of trying to obstruct and shutdown all of the investigations against him, as far as i can tell. at some point congress is likely going to be forced to grapple with whether that rises to the level of something that is impeachable. i just think that although it's become a little bit political conventional wisdom in washington that somehow this may all go away just because some new devastating allegation ...

>> mimi, i always like to go back when something on the obstruction side, when there's a new development, and see the president in his own words reacting in a way that i don't think we've seen in his entire presidency. the way he reacted, the things he said the day of the cohen raid. and i'm going to play this because all of his closest allies say it is the cohen raid and the cases that stemmed from cohen flipping and cohen now having nothing to lose. he's on his way to prison. that gives the president the most fear on the legal front. let's watch that reaction from many months ago. >> it's a ...

Collusion. that is, why would somebody want -- why would the president want to shutdown this investigation designed to protect the national security of the united states unless there were some untoward relationship between him and the russians. so we have this idea that has really permeated a lot of the way we talk about the russia investigation that there is an obstruction side of the investigation and a collusion side. and i think the point i was trying to make in that article and i think that mccabe's interview really bears out is that from the fbi's point of view, those questions were not ...

Crime, they also look at it and they say the obstruction crime itself may be a form of collusion. that is, why would somebody want -- why would the president want to shutdown this investigation designed to protect the national security of the united states unless there were some untoward relationship between him and the russians. so we have this idea that has really permeated a lot of the way we talk about the russia investigation that there is an obstruction side of the investigation and a collusion side. and i think the point i was trying to make in that article and i think that mccabe's int...

Couple years since the comey firing has been -- has assumed that, you know, there's this underlying counterintelligence investigation that had been going on for a while, the so-called collusion investigation. and then the fbi -- the president fires the fbi director and a few weeks later, we learn that bob mueller is investigationing the firing and whether that obstructed justice. and people had assumed a lot of the debate assumed that those are kind of separate investigations. right? you've got your collusion, your counterintelligence investigation, and then you've got this criminal investigat...