last night he dropped this bombshell that you need photo id to buy grocery. that does it for me. ari is going to be in tonight for rachel maddow. chris matthews and hardball starts right now. caught in the swamp, let s play hard ball. acting like a ship s captain in a typhoon. calling the investigation a witch hunt, the media, the enemy of the people. good evening, i am chris matthews and steaming swamp like washington that has just been drenched with rainfall. it is wet in this town and steaming. president trump is waging an increasingly desperate battle. case in point is the president s cavalier tweet in which he calls on the justice department yesterday to terminate the russian probe all together. quote attorney general jeff sessions should stop this witch hunt right now. one of the most overt message that president has taken to date to shut down the probe. trying to protect the president, trump s allies are trying to downplay the significance of his tweeting. saying president trump is only expressing his personal opinion. not an order, it is his opinion. the president is stating his opinion. i think i have clarified this probe to be eliminated and wants his attorney general to do it right now. that s his current position. yeah, it does seem like he is lashing out more and more lately. upset at the coverage of his meeting of vladimir putin in helsinki, upset at the news of michael cohen having taped his conversation about possible pay off to a woman who claims he had an affair with her. he is feeling the pressure, feeling the heat and he is lashing out. yesterday s tweet takes him further up towards the line. so far he hasn t been willing to cross. has to give an order saying fire rod rosenstein, fire mueller. so he inches up close to the line and makes his point of view well-known. but so far not willing to cross it. even he thinks that might be too dangerous. i would think this special counsel hears a guy that says fires me and takes it seriously. not that is an eight-year-old bagging on the crib. it means something. and the president s defenders acts like an eight-year-old banging on the crib. when we look at the president s tweets, tweets equal evidence. statement of a party opponent. if the president would end up a defendant in a court, those tweets prove his state of mind. who he was angry with. and what he intended to do. guess what are not add missable in court, walk backs. it will never modify what the president tweeted about in court. the same holds true for rudy Chris Matthews debates hot political issues with politicians, newsmakers and Washington leaders. believe he is giving the president an opportunity to say his peace and have his answer be heard. he is going to push that paper back and say i think we will pass. that is one of the reasons giuliani s proposal to mueller is we will answer questions on collusion but not on obstruction. they know if mueller believes comey or other witnesses trump is going to contradict them and there he is in perjury. the tease that has been going on is ask questions about motive. i don t think you can ask somebody as wily as trump about his motive. it is a subjective analysis. if you ask him these questions of fact, did you ask the comey, to let his buddy michael flynn off or did you not, i don t think they are ready for questions of fact. what do you make of that? his motives are plain. made them plain through his tweets and through his statements. the question, they are putting out is can he be charged with obstruction if he is the head of the executive branch. laying out a theory that because the president of the united states, he cannot be guilty of obstruction. it is in his authority to change the personnel or even end an investigation outright. particularly as shannon says might not hold up to a court of public opinion. republican house isn t going to go there. that is a fair assessment. all of these impeachments going back to andrew johnson have been through opposition parties. johnson was a democrat. let me ask you about this subpoena question. nixon had a respond with the tapes. the supreme court require he turn over the tapes showing him basically obstructing justice. clinton had to turn over whatever he turned over. testify in open hearing on tape. why wouldn t they just subpoena the guy, do it and get it over with. the department of justice has a policy, that we, they, do not subpoena target of investigation. a target of investigation nixon was a target. yeah, but there is a doj policy, not a law. so we can t hand them a grand jury subpoena which is a court order and direct him to testify because he will be incriminating himself. there is an exception to that policy but in my thi30 years we cannot have it apply. can you make it jump in civilian language. can t be indicted and therefore he can t be a target. can be a target because he could be indicted and they could delay a prosecution until after he left office. right now in real terms, i believe he has morphed into a target. how bob mueller chooses to proceed, it is open. do we know why mueller wants to talk to a guy as wily and slippery as trump. why does he want to do this. when you look broader at his mandate, it is to look into whether or not the trump campaign colluded. well, if he lies to you, then you have him on making false statements or perjury. he has an investigation to conduct. people who work with him say he is going to conduct a thorough investigation. would not necessarily be a thorough investigation. more signs that the special counsel is still scrutinizing donald trump jr. s meeting. nbc news is reporting that mueller has requested an interview with russian pop star emi emin, who helped set it up. he confirmed he did speak to donald trump jr. about the trump tower meeting. i think the president is unwise to walk into a perjury trap against a group of smart people no one is smart enough to take on all of mueller s team. this is knnewt gingrich. you have been saying, people have been saying this is about politics. there is not going to be a trial, acquit or a verdict, or a judgment against him, a condemnation. in the end it is going to depend on who carries the house. if the democrats carry the house, most people think they will win. i simply have to deal with the fact that a partisan house is going to impeach me or narrowly not. and i will live that and still get elected in 2020. is that the strategy. certainly one strategy. and as you rightly pointed out. we have learned that they don t succeed unless they are bipartisan. the democrats weren t willing to abandon bill clinton. right now, even if the senate were to go democratic, it would be one or two votes. they wouldn t have the 67 votes that they need for conviction. if he chooses not to resign, then if republicans bail on him like they did during nixon. that doesn t seem likely at the moment. we will see. if they decide he is more trouble than worth keeping. there is a scenario in which he gets hammered in the election this fall and if he rallies his base. bill clinton did well after impeachment. his approval ratings went up and not down. anything that can happen. nixon had nobody that was his problem. and trump has fox. thank you. day three of the manafort trial. according to reports the president is monitoring what is happening over there. first big battle. first big test. the scarey world of q anon. who are these internet conspiracy theorist and why are they showing up at trump rallies. and ivanka, she does not agree with her father the media is the enemy of the people. and bringing you the latest going on in willkes-barre, pennsylvania. bright copper kettles and warm woolen mittens brown paper packages tied up with strings these are a few of my favorite things the new united explorer card hooks me up. getting more for getting away. traveling lighter. getting settled. rewarded! learn more at theexplorercard.com today s white house briefing, five u.s. national security officials warn russia a is attempting to interfere with the election. here is dan coats. we acknowledge the threat, it is real. it is continuing. and doing everything we can to have a legitimate election that the american people can have trust in. asked if the president has raised those concerns in his meeting with vladimir putin. coats said he still doesn t know what the two leaders have talked about. we ll be right back. like safe driver, paperless. the list goes on. how about a discount for long lists? gold. mara, you save our customers hundreds for switching almost effortlessly. it s a gift. and jamie. -present. -together we are unstoppable. so, what are we gonna do? insurance. that s kind of what we do here. it s a high-tech sleep revolution. the sleep number 360 smart bed intelligently senses your movement and automatically adjusts. so you wake up ready to run the world. the new sleep number 360 smart bed, from $999. are you ready to take your then you need xfinity xfi.? a more powerful way to stay connected. it gives you super fast speeds for all your devices, provides the most wifi coverage for your home, and lets you control your network with the xfi app. it s the ultimate wifi experience. xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome. welcome back to hardball. third t third day, the trial of paul manafort. according to associated press, president trump is closely monitoring news coverage in the manafort proceeding. and has provoked a flurry of tweeting. in the courtroom itself prosecutors are laying out just how lavish manafort s lifestyle has been. spent $450,000 on landscaping on a vacation home. and he spent more than $1 million on clothing. including $15,000 for this jacket made from ostrich. who wants a python jacket. facing multiple charges of bank and tax fraud. the charges predate itself. first test for special counsel mueller s prosecution. i am joined by cynthia ox nee and josh gershstein. why is this guy ostrich jacket and loot from eastern europe. it is completely over the top. they are really being fought at every turn by the judge who is in charge. he is telling them move on. move on right now. you have seen more pictures that you have shown to the audience more pictures than the jury has seen. pretty much will allow one or two in and then makes him move on. dry testimony about the wire transfers, banks in cypress and going through line by line about how invoices were paid. it seems to me it is all paper. accounting is tricky enough for most people. it seems they are going to buy the argument for the prosecution. if you looked at the indictment, the indictment goes and they will get a copy of the indictment in the jury room and it goes line by line and list after list. these kind of cases are boring. but they have it nailed. yeah. you are politically in tuned. well, it is a continuing to move manafort to try to get him to try to flip. he has this indictment and the indictment in d.c. and my guess is he will have a third indictment that has to do with obstruction and a conspiracy to violate campaign finance laws. and mueller is trying to push towards that. and this is the first piece of moving towards that. and you were telling me, that you think maybe the manafort people are showing leg on this, niceness to the white house saying we have stuff that is going to come at you. when you try a case in federal court, you have to give to the defense all the statements you have. so everything gates said since he flipped about everything. and going against manafort, everything he has told the fbi. the defense has that. and they are using, going to use it in the trial. i don t think people realize that. interestingly, that comes right before trial, the prosecutors go through their file and make the copies. let me jump over to josh. what would a smart defense attorney do. what is he going to say, i have on my hands all the dirt they have on me, but also the dirt they have on you mr. president. how about you give me a break like a pardon. a lot of people think the end game here is some kind of pardon. this is such a difficult case for the defense, they have these mountains of paperwork showing this guy was paying all these high, hundreds of thousands of dollars in personal bills from accounts like places like cypress and the grenadines. while trump may be willing to comment on the manafort case, it seems the white house is trying to keep the president s allies from doing the same. according to politico, told them some interpret this as an attempt to keep them from talking about the trial on tv and to starve it from oxygen. it might leap over to him, this bad news from gates. and the white house is very careful to keep their fingers away from this thing. this manafort case. about the time the prosecutors give all of this information to manafort is the same time that giuliani starts to talk about how there was another meeting that gates was present. and so i think they are seeing this and it is affecting them. how is mueller looking at this. first battle he needs to win? he definitely has to win it. they are being forced to limit the evidence that they put forward. the judge is moving them along. there really is a mountain of evidence here on tax evasion in particular and cutting it down to half a mountain may not do damage to mueller s case and denying the atmospherics. they probably can figure it out from the paperwork alone. the prosecution has the advantage. it will be done at the end of the week. thank you. up next, what is q anon and why are supporters of this fringe group and its conspiracy showing front and center at trump rallies. got pictures, another crazy group out there aligning itself with trump. elite group of people, out to screw you in every possible way according to thgroup. not so cute when they re angry. and we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we ve seen a thing or two. we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered. in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. to me, he s, phil micwell, dad.o golfer. so when his joint pain from psoriatic arthritis got really bad, it scared me. and what could that pain mean? joint pain could mean joint damage. enbrel helps relieve joint pain, helps stop irreversible joint damage, and helps skin get clearer. enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma, other cancers, nervous system and blood disorders, and allergic reactions have occurred. tell your doctor if you ve been someplace where fungal infections are common, or if you re prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for heart failure, or if you have persistent fever, bruising, bleeding, or paleness. don t start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. since enbrel, dad s back to being dad. visit enbrel.com and use the joint damage simulator to see how your joint damage could be progressing. ask about enbrel. enbrel. fda approved for over 15 years. beast detailed some of the conspiracies. plotters in the deep state tried to shoot down air force one and foil president trump s north korea summit. a cabal of global elites. and now trump is going to fix it all with thousands of sealed indictments sending the likes of hillary clinton and barack obama straight to guantanamo bay. an area we are going to have to weigh into. we see real people, citizens of the united states wearing qs all over them. what do they believe? it is bizarre. this started on secure internet f forums and they believe that president trump is engaged in a good versus evil struggle. he has enemies, he points to the president, enemies of the people. he has got the witch hunt. so three known groups of people he calls the enemy. it is a need of these people from the far, far, right hillary clinton hasn t been locked up. so they imagine this nefarious oo cults. who makes this t-shirts? he is enjoying himself, but look, somebody who is more serious. these are people who you go to amazon to buy these t-shirts. someone at this rally with a wooden q he is wearing. they are real people and had a rally in d.c. in april. what do they agree on is this kwc q person, or group. who is the leader. this is a good conspiracy, right? they think q is their ally. someone in the trump administration. a reporter asking trump are you q. is it michael flynn. it is so crazy. but people believe it. and where is it going politically? they are hard core trump people. who are the good guys in the p pantheon. mattis, kim jong-un. good guys? yes. this seems like extreme trump. do a marvel comic figure. and take it to that dimension. and the good are the trumpies. a fantasy world. look at this. are they going to endorse, is kwcq, going to endorse candidates. an armed man in an armored truck shut down a bridge. q targeted michael avenatti, it is strange stuff. where do you see it by this november, election day. if the democrats take back the house, maybe a conspiracy theory how they stole the election. we are going further into that sphere. william, you can have this beat. you keep this beat. thank you, up next, ivanka trump speaking out about an issue that she and her dad may not see eye to eye. you are watching hardball. wasn t my top priority. until i held her. i found my tresiba® reason. now i m doing more to lower my a1c. i take tresiba® once a day. tresiba® controls blood sugar for 24 hours for powerful a1c reduction. 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(vo) ask your health care provider about tresiba®. covered by most commercial health insurance and medicare part d plans. ahoy! gotcha! nooooo. noooooo. quick, the quicker picker upper! bounty picks up messes quicker and is 2x more absorbent. bounty, the quicker picker upper. you shouldn t be rushed into booking a hotel. with expedia s add-on advantage, booking a flight unlocks discounts on select hotels until the day you leave for your trip. add-on advantage. only when you book with expedia. is part of a bigger picture. that bigger picture is statewide mutual aid. california years ago realized the need to work together. teamwork is important to protect the community, but we have to do it the right way. we have a working knowledge and we can reduce the impacts of a small disaster, but we need the help of experts. pg&e is an integral part of our emergency response team. they are the industry expert with utilities. whether it is a gas leak or a wire down, just having someone there that deals with this every day is pretty comforting. we each bring something to the table that is unique and that is a specialty. with all of us working together we can keep all these emergencies small. and the fact that we can bring it together and effectively work together is pretty special. they bring their knowledge, their tools and equipment and the proficiency to get the job done. and the whole time i have been in the fire service, pg&e s been there, too. whatever we need whenever we need it. i do count on pg&e to keep our firefighters safe. that s why we ask for their help. remember that incredible night in november. remember that incredible night. and you remember that we were way up in pennsylvania and there was only 2% of the vote left and we were way up. if i lost every vote, we would have won the state of pennsylvania. and the fake news refused to call it, right? welcome back to hardball that was donald trump right now in will, pennsylvania. do you think the media is the enemy of the people. no. i do not. that s not a view that is shared in your family. are you looking for me to elaborate. sure. no, i don t. trump tweeted that ivanka s answer was correct. i am joined tonight. i want to start with jennifer on this. trump is serious about this. he is not narrowing the group. we are the enemy of the people and i think he is getting into a frenzy. i am beginning to think there is something going on here. worried about the typhoon around him and he is attacking everyone. i think he is desperate at this point. he is not the master of his own ship. he sees the polls. he is in the last few months of a republican congress. he sees a trial that is proceeding down the emollument trail. he sees horrible reviews with vladimir putin. he sees mueller not going away. and trump can t do anything about it. so what is he doing? he lashes out. i think this is a desperate man. i agree. and he is getting to a point where he is completely out of control. wh when. when he says fire mueller, i don t take it he is trying to obstruct justice. they have been telling us that we should take him seriously, but not literally. he wants him out. he wants us talking about that instead of what his tariffs are doing to people getting ready to buy school supplies and to the farmers. he would much rather fight with the press. i think he is turning us third world. do we dare announce the results of the election, oh, no, because somebody might not like it. it is a lot like the third world. but the third world doesn t have the u.s. constitution. we see a lot coming to a head at this point. jennifer ran it down very well. from the emollument clause to the russian investigation. he has no new tactic. relying on pumping up the base. we marvel how solid it is. and it is not growing. and then you ve got the bashing of the media, which everybody does. he just does more relentlessly. and it begins to lose power. i want to stick on this point. nixon would say, the press is the enemy, meaning they are adversarial. enemies list remember. he meant by he didn t mean it enemies of the people. you know there is a difference. he wants to discredit anything that would have credibility against him. he is a man that cares about messaging and perception and if he can undermine all of the media, it undermines everything they write about him. that s a problem that he is going to face. that rally tonight, trumped weighed in. let s watch him tonight. we got along really well. by the way, that s a good thing. not a bad thing. that s a really good thing. now, we re being hindered by the russian hoax. it is a hoax. russia is very unhappy that trump won. that i can tell you. but i got along great with putin. and everybody said wow, that was a great. couple of hours later, i started hearing these reports that you know, they wanted me to walk up here is the podium. they wanted me to walk up and go like this. they wanted me to go up and have a boxing match. i said whatever happened to diplomacy. well here is a problem which is the russians according to all of the investigators that we got in the country are still at it. still poking around. always his top people came out tonight said they are up to him and here he says we have no problem with putin. and john bolton saying the president understands that. they don t agree with the president. and the president is exercising no leadership and he is telling you right there and then, he did not want to confront a power that is hostile to the united states. he has confessed, he is a patsy. doesn t have the nerve to stand up to putin in public. he has basically said, i don t care if the supreme court burns down to the ground. as long as i am still standing. he is willing to destroy everybody s but his own. if he loses in congress, that is his to lose. where he goes from here, that say big question mark. do you think he knows all of this. he knows that much. nixon, when he got re-elected overwhelmingly. they are sitting there listening to victory at sea. he says we just lost the house again, we lost the power of subpoena. they are coming at me. do you think trump understands this? all of these guys are going to have the power of subpoena. he understands. he thinks the way to do it is to shut down the government and talk about immigration and nobody over at congress agrees with him. we know barbara comstock says i am not shutting down the government. the last thing they want is a big fight about immigration and a wall that 60% of american people disagree with. every time donald trump does that, their skin must crawl. people saying why doesn t people stand up to this guy. making a majority that basically it has been. look, i don t have a lot of people in politics, a few people i have a problem with, but sarah huckabee sanders has a job to do. and she was asked do you believe the press are the enemy of the people and she dodged. forced to choose between her conscious and her job. jim acosta asking sarah huckabee sanders about this contention. it is ironic that not only you and the media attack the president for his rhetoric. repeatedly the media resorts to personal attacks without any content other than to incite anger. the media continues to ratchet up the verbal assault against the president and everyone in this administration. and the media has a role to play for the discourse as well. all i am asking you to do is acknowledge that right here. i appreciate your passion. i share it. i have draaddressed this questi. i have addressed my personal question. i am here to act on behalf of the president. the president blamed the press for bad coverage of his visit to the queen. here was the story by the fake news. the president was 15 minutes late for the queen. wrong. and then here is the rest of the story. here is the rest. er here is the rest of the store. they said i was late, i was actually early. i guess the meeting was scheduled for 15 minutes and it lasted over an hour. the president overstays. so i was late and i overstayed and honestly, folks, it was a beautiful visit and afternoon. but they can make anything bad because they are the fake, fake disgusting news. i have no idea what he is talking about and i am not going to think about it anymore. the roundtable sticking with us. and these people tell me me something i don t know. you are watching hardball. going new places. (oh!) going out for a bite. going anytime. rewarded! learn more at theexplorercard.com alright. you don t think i need both? why does he have that axe? make summer go right with ford, america s best-selling brand. now get 0% financing for 72 months plus $1,000 ford credit bonus cash on a great selection of suvs. during the ford summer sales event, get our best offer of the season: 0% financing for 72 months plus $1,000 ford credit bonus cash. roundtable. ginger, tell me something i don t know. the fight between trump and the coke brothers. this is a fight that could cost some candidates a real problem. i can t say i have a dog in that fight. fun to watch. right to bear arms, how about the right to bear knives. for the last eight years, a crusade on trying to get rid of knife control laws. yesterday, august 1, louisiana became the twoinsds it shall. right now having the warm up act on the nomination of kavanaugh. wait until they start demanding documents from the federalist society. and wait until they start making inquiries. but donald trump should not be picking the guy who is going to rule on an ongoing federal prosecution. thank you. when we return let me finish with trump watch. it s a big one. you re watching hardball. ooh, heaven is a place on earth uhp. i didn t believe it. again. ooh, baby, do you know what that s worth? i want to believe it. [ claps hands ] ooh i m not hearing the confidence. okay, hold the name your price tool. power of options based on your budget! and! we ll make heaven a place on earth yeah! oh, my angels! ooh, heaven is a place on earth [ sobs quietly ] ooh, heaven is a place on earth if yor crohn s symptoms are holding you back, and your current treatment hasn t worked well enough, it may be time for a change. ask your doctor about entyvio, the only biologic developed and approved just for uc and crohn s. entyvio works at the site of inflammation in the gi tract and is clinically proven to help many patients achieve both symptom relief and remission. infusion and serious allergic reactions can happen during or after treatment. entyvio may increase risk of infection, which can be serious. pml, a rare, serious, potentially fatal brain infection caused by a virus may be possible. this condition has not been reported with entyvio. tell your doctor if you have an infection, experience frequent infections or have flu-like symptoms or sores. liver problems can occur with entyvio. if your uc or crohn s treatment isn t working for you, ask your gastroenterologist about entyvio. entyvio. relief and remission within reach. trump watch thursday august 2nd, 2018. president trump s behavior is increasingly growing frantic. a man facing unclear but imminent danger. as if the big woeful attack is coming and nothing he can do to stop it. his own attacks are going in all directions. it is a witch hunt. it is the deep state that is out to get him. the fake media that is advancing. converging upon him. what can a serious observer make of this weird behavior, is it paranoia. is it the man tweeting so
Laura Ingraham shines a spotlight on everyday Americans and examines how their lives are affected by politics at the federal, state and local level. democrats warned about in america that actually punishes border jumpers. and they are never happier on the left than when they are using kids as political bonds. pawns. i ve heard of the stories with i.c.e. year-old infants being reported, the judges, it s almost chuck e. cheese s uses things like this to check parents and their children when they are there. laura: ok. with that absurd analysis, vermont would be better off with chuck e. cheese s mascot as one of their senators. oh, my gosh. chuck e. cheese s does a better job of keeping parenting here s a i.c.e. official, attempting to introduce this concept called applying the facts to the law. to those democrat senator from hawaii, mazie hirono. americans civil liberty union? nowadays illegal immigrant civil liberties union. meanwhile, we are caring for these children in the u.s. taxpayers are footing the bill. but who cares about these facts. when peddling emotions, dripping with concern, is so much easier. melania trump went to the border and now these empty and asked these empty questions about how and when these families will be put back together. she doesn t care! she s planning christmas at the white house. are you idiots running this country? you seem like child abusers to me ask any doctor, ask any child welfare specialist,ask any psychiatrist, ask yourself, is this abuse? this is abuse! laura: that was abuse just watching that. you ever notice how the empathy, though, just runs one way? it s never the same kind of empathy for the families victimized by violent illegal alien crime. or dwi deaths because of illegal immigrants. or drug trafficking. gunrunning. never any empathy for americans who have been pushed out of their jobs in the workforce for cheaper illegal labor. b never any empathy for i.c.e. agents, who have their reputations smeared or lives threatened, for just doing their jobs. our commitment to consistent and fair enforcement of the law is demonstrated on a daily basis by the integrity, the unbiased professionalism, and the compassion of the men and women of cbp exhibit toward the aliens we encounter, particularly toward the most vulnerable. we do not believe our humanity behind when read report for duty. laura: that was a great line. americans are just a lot smarter.s than the left and their media poodles think. americans understand that we are not a country without borders. of course we have compassion. that is why we are taking pretty good care of them, all things considered. they are not with their families but they are being fed, clothed, doctor s appointments, entertainment, sports, schooling, interpreters, lawyers.te that is not nothing. and americans will not be guilted into supporting politicians who put the interests of illegal aliens ahead of our own citizens. here is why congressman ron desantis will be the next governor of florida.sa he gets it. we can fight illegal immigration! [cheers and applause] all we got to do is enact e-verify and stop sanctuary cities! we want maximum border security and respect for our heroes, i.c.e., border patrol, and law enforcement, and we are going to have tremendous border security that will include the wall! that will include the wall. laura: the applause went on and on last night. the biggest applause wind when the subject of immigration came up. look, in my mind, it s actually sad, it s really sad to see what happened to the party of fdr and john f. kennedy, the democraticw party. on this issue and so many others, they used to believe america was worth defending. her laws, her constitution, the declaration, her borders, her history. now their most vocal voices believe it is time to destroy that old order and replace it with something closer to socialism. but we are not about to let that happen.ngis and that is the angle. joining me now for reaction is tom homan, the former acting director of the i.c.e. mr. homan, thank you so much for being here. really appreciate it. no problem. laura: i got to tell you, when i see what s going on in portland, oregon, beautiful portland, a lot of history of political activism, that s fine, this is not your ordinary political activism. what s happening there that the american people are not seeingol because the media will notha adequately cover this story? during the time i saw your clips earlier, and chris kramer is right. the mayor has refused to taker action on those folks that have illegally prevented us from doing our jobs by shutting our building for over over a week. how many child molesters, predators, weren t arrested that week? how many criminal aliens, aliens would enter this country illegally and commit yet another crime weren t arrested that week? a lot of criminals are now walking the streets of portland that would have been arrested that week. the mayor turned his back on the citizens of portland for his own political ambitions.ou laura: now, chris crane was talking about the antifa infiltration, or some would say takeover of this protest. are the run-of-the-mill, kind of millennial protesters, with the magic marker signs, and the black mask people, kind of working hand in glove there from what you are gathering? yeah, i watched video of the portland office showed on forre days. showdown for several days. antifa was there. in a matter of fact, they hungr their antifa flag up over laura: whoa. whoa. whoa. they took down u.s. flag, they climbed the building, they took on the u.s. flag, and they replaced it with an antifa flag? yes, ma am. i.c.e., the first thing they did when they took a building back, the patriots raised the building back up.th laura: only thing i can think about it is when isis was rolling through parts of iraq. they were going to those christian villagers in mosul and so forth. they were knocking down those churches, taking up the cross, and raising the isis flag. it s a form of domestic terror. it s pathetic, what s going on in portland. i don t know who is worse than that mayor or the mayor in oakland, philadelphia, the whole bunch of them right now, who have never accepted this president, and they will put their own political ambitions ahead of the public safety of their citizens. i want to remind the portland mayor, because i m sure he ll hear about this, these i.c.e. employees, are also tax payers and citizens of the city of portland. he has a duty to protect them. laura: zephyr teachout, interesting name, democratic candidate for a new york attorney general, calls to abolish i.c.e. i.c.e. has to be abolished and as attorney general, i will continue to speak out against i.c.e., i will prosecute i.c.e. for their criminal acts. we have stories of consistent abuse., the idea that we could call this law enforcement is a real offense to the idea of law itself. laura: a real offense. i think she s mixing up i think she means offense. that s okay. i ve never seen that video but now i m more irritated than i was when i walked in here. that attorney general laura: t candidate. candidate? i hope that is as far as she gets. look, prosecute i.c.e. agents? i.c.e. officers and agents have taken more than 5,000 criminal aliens up the street in new york. that walked out of there sanctuary jails. i.c.e. has done more for public safety in that state in their own governor has. i.c.e. officers on the northern border have shut down opioid trade and laura: but they say, tom, the reason they re upset is because you are separating families, you are focused on deporting these families, when you should be focused on the illegal immigrants. they are conflating border patrol, hhs, detainment centers, and i.c.e. they are putting them in one big pot.t.pa so they re saying, well you could do a better job if you weren t focusing on these poor children. let me tell you about separating families. watch the hearing and i was quite disturbed by some of the questions by democrats. they kept wanting to put the blame on border patrols and i.c.e. we have a process, we ve been separating families for decades, first of all. , laura: decades. decades. they want to blame somebody? congress need to look in the mirror. i have been up on the hill several times along with the head of cdp and cis talking about the loopholes, if they want these folks to see a judge and claim asylum, we do, too. there is one way to guarantee to see a judge is to keep it in a family residential center. they don t want to do that. they refuse to fix the loopholes, the attorney general did what he had to do operationally to defend our borders. the attorney general did exactly what he should have done. laura: zero tolerance is the way to go. he was right. we have a runaway judge situation in this country. they are acting as super legislators. a judge in san diego, he ordered during the unification stop, the dna testing, when we did the dna testing, 55 and 7% 5% to 7% were not the parents. if you bring that to 2500 people, how many children do we have to release them to people that want their parents becausec that judge decided that dna wasn t important. laura: and 20% of kids were not brought across by their parents there s 10,000 children in custody, hhs that were separated by their parents who hired criminal organizations to put their credit in the trunk of a car and smuggled into united states.at that is child abuse.mu laura: who are the parents who send their kids across the border alone? what kind of parent is at? the administration of putting your kid in the trunk of a car and smuggling to united states. laura: tom homan, hey, great to see you. we miss you at the homeland. i m in the fight. laura: good for you. bob mueller is the mayor to make it significant concession to the trump legal team. he s agreed to reduce the number of questions for president trump and a potential interview from his initial list of 49. mueller is also willing to accept some answers in writing, though he wants oral ancestorac answers to others. trump attorney rudy giuliani responded to the tug-of-war over an interview earlier today. they sent us a proposal. we responded to that proposal.de it took about ten days and yesterday, we got a letter back. we are in the process of responding. at the end of it, they should render their report, put up i guess, put up or shut up, what you got? we have every reason to believe they don t have anything.ut laura: joining us now to analyze, alan dershowitz, author of the book, the case against impeaching trump, along with sol wisenberg, from the whitewater investigation. professor dershowitz, what you make of this development? the supposed concessions. they don t seem like huge concessions to me but nevertheless down from 49 questions, some in writing. does this change the calculus? i don t think so. it s not about quantity. it s all about quality. all he has to do is ask one question, what was your motive, why did you fire comey, or why did you ask comey maybe to go easy on flynn? all they want to do is get him to say in a context where he would be charged with a crime, something that is controversial, and something that somebody else will come in and testify and say, no, he told me something different. no, he told me that his motive was this or that. motives are so vague and subjective. and you can be charged with lying to prosecution officials, even if you tell the truth. if there is another witness who comes in and gives a different account and the prosecutor is trying to get you. they want to put you in perjury trap and believes or says he believes the other witness whotr may not only be singing but he may be composing in order to get a better deal, you ve walked into a perjury trap so in the end, i don t think his lawyers are going to let president trump testify orally at all. look, the president may get his way. laura: yeah. he says he wants to testify, but no lawyer is going to walk his client into a perjury trap. laura: tonight, the new york times, sol is reporting that the president is pushing for an interview with mueller against the advice of counsel. i don t know if this is kind of you know, they re playing around here on this and it s good p.r. or if that s the real deal, but let s pretend for the moment that s real. your reaction? i think it is suicidal. i think it s idiotic. i agree with the professor. here is the real piece here. the real key here. based on everything we know, they don t have anything close to an obstruction case on the president. but it is much easier, in addition to the stuff that professor dershowitz said, it ic much easier to prove a case of lying to the government undere 18 u.s. code section 1,001 than it is to prove an obstruction c case, particularly based on what they have. it has to be material, but then threshold for a material lie is extremely low. and their cases are legion of convicting people under 1,001 and including martha stewart. it s a terrible strategy and i can t believe i would physically restrain my client in these circumstances. s] laura: [ laughter ] you and i both. hold on, alan. we ll stay for another segment. we have an incredible story ahead. hillary clinton and barack obama s stunning connection now to the mueller probe. you won t believe this. stay here. eller probe. you won t believe this. you won t believe this. you wouldn t accept an incomplete job from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase sensimist relieves all your worst symptoms, including nasal congestion, which most pills don t. and all from a gentle mist you can barely feel. flonase sensimist. one of the other cable news networks recently, first of all you probably are bombarded with updates on former trump campaign chair paul manafort s federal trial kicked off today. despite no allegations of russian collusion, he is facing serious prison time in a case brought by the special counsel, bob mueller. it s not related that manafort s work that russian friendly ukrainian political party that predated his time at the trump campaign. it got swept up in this whole deal. interestingly, there are reports that mueller has referred three cases to federal prosecutors in manhattan involving high-profile lobbyists who also worked on behalf of that same ukrainian linked group without registering as foreign agents. haven t heard much about that. have you? could it be that, because, welln one of those names is tony podesta? super lobbyist and the democratic party and brother off john, the chairman of hillary s failed 2016 campaign. or that other name, greg craig? former white house counsel for barack obama. re-joining us now for reaction, alan dershowitz, and sol wisenberg. okay, guys. how potentially serious, or not, is the deal with referring both podesta and greg craig to the southern district of new york? greg craig, full disclosure, work for my old law firm, and they parted ways. months back. let s start with you, professor dershowitz. what is going on here? greg is a great guy. he lives on martha s vineyard with me. i see them periodically over the summer. full disclosure. look, this proves that you never needed a special counsel. they are taking these cases mori and more and referring them to ordinary u.s. attorney s office. the manafort case could have been tried by the u.s. attorney s office in northern virginia. the other manafort case by the district of columbia he was u.s. attorney s office. why do we need a special counsel? the cases don t involve russia for the most part were the only cases that involve russia are cases that will never be tried at all, the 12 russians. they are not coming to disneyland any day soon to be served. they re not going to be extradited by vladimir putin. so we are seeing more and more proof that we never needed a special counsel. the special counsel will end up filing a report and getting some low-hanging fruit and getting some convictions, largely unrelated to what his mandate originally was. i didn t like the special counsel when they were appointed to get bill clinton, i didn t like them in other cases. i don t like them now. it is against the principles of democracy. laura: similar, sol, seems interesting. we re vacuuming up a lot of information about people, and it s going up to the special this other southern district of new york, same deal with michael cohen. it doesn t seem like it is expanding to places that have nothing to do with the original charge. two things in mind. one, i think probably, if it has related gone to the southern district, unlike michael cohen where they could say it is not in our bailiwick, here, this part of the original manafort thing, but here, they willy, decline those cases, and my guess, and if mueller declines cases against democrats, he would get a tremendous amount of criticism for it. so it s easier to send it to the southern district. > laura: it looks better for mueller, who s been accused by the president of having 17 prosecutors i don t agree - laura: not all of them have ties to the democrats. the president shouldn t be doing that. here s the other thing. here s a difference. right or wrong, mueller seesdnha manafort as a key to his russia conspiracy case. he believes, right or wrong, that manafort knows that something manafort is the key and that is why he is going after manafort that he is clearly going to laura: did judge ellis say that again today? he said it repeatedly. s he says i don t like it. the system let him do that. every prosecutor has done that at some point in their career. that is the key to mueller. manafort is the key. the question is, if he s convicted, does he become what susan mcdougall, and say, nuts to you, i m still not talking to you, or does he say, he d rather talk if he has any information? laura: he was there for five minutes at the trump campaign, i mean . four or five months! laura: then trump is worried at all about manafort. i know k for a fact he s not worried about it dershowitz you made a very important point in that is it s much easier for you as attorney to decline a case. that s why we should have u.s. attorneys. they re professional prosecutors. they don t a have a target. they can decline cases if the facts and the law don t warrant prosecution. laura: let s advance the narrative. they ll call for a special counsel to do that. laura: let s advance this narrative today.at we have this trial kicking off in the eastern district of new york and in instruct me that much of the time in it struck me most of the time in these conversations, much of the conversation went to paul manafort s wealth. and there was one point where they brought in this witness, okay, maximilian katzman, former manager of the new york city men s warehouse store. he claimed manafort spent $929,000 on suits between 2010 and 2014.. judge ellis then says can t cantankerous judge ellis whom i love dearly, all this evidence shows that mr. manafort had a lavish lifestyle. he had a nice home with a pool and a gazebo. it s not relevant. of course he went out to make a really funny comment about the clothes, saying he spent a lot of clothes and it wasn t even that well-dressed. is it a crime is a crime not to spend a lot of money, but we got a lot of people guilty of that in this town, washington, d.c. if he doesn t say men s warehouse, i don t know anything about it. laura: i like t.j. maxx. you like men s warehouse! that is my kind of judge. that is my kind of judge. i will never be convicted of anything, expensive clothing is a prerequisite. b i also go to men s warehouse. of the interesting thing is under the law, the law is terrible at showing lavish lifestyle. under the law, the prosecutors, in most courts would be allowed to say that but judge ellis really doesn t like it. every time he makes those comments, the jury is listening and they know he doesn t like it. laura: professor dershowitz, at one point, they talked about the fact that manafort used foreign wire transfers to pay for his clothes. this maximilian katzman, who is the kato kaelin of the trial so far, he says he says, well, that is the only customer i ve ever had who paid that way. who cares? this is not against the law. i don t know what manafort did. i think this whole thing i don t know, my antenna, my spidey senses are going up about this case. i don t know if it is rick gates, if they are afraid to bring him and as a prosecution witness, they seem to be hesitant about bringing gates in, which i find interesting. professor? whenever you have a witness who has admitted to lying, it is a very hard job to put them on the stand.d. the witness always says, i lied in the past, yes iknow that, but now i m telling the truth.wy the lawyer for the defense says, you expected benefits from telling the truth. don t you expect to get a good deal? so it s very hard to get a successful conviction based on a flipped witness who might not only be singing, but composing. this judge is very sympathetic to that. he used that term. he said sometimes witnesses who are squeezed, not only think about compose, and make the case sing but compose and make the case better in order to get a better deal! laura: really quick, they talked about not doing that early morning raid. apparently, the fbi had a key to his condo. they said, how did you have a key? we said, we don t know how we had the key. a little weird. a little weird. again, this is my own litigator sense. that is interesting. listen, gates is going to testify. laura: gates is going to testify. a guys, we ll have you back all the time. this is really interesting. great panels, great to see you in person. big names now scouring hollywood for new production gigs. we ll tell you about the latest. arroyo next.ow we ll tell you ab. raym the laptop people at starbucks? they are. they are willing to change, find their destiny. they are more mobile than we are. here s what they are doing. they have adopted what is called small house movements, where they live in campers, or rvs..av laura: or containers! these little babies, they are offering to them, they are also living in pods and theirre parents backyards. now three fourths of all campers are generation x and millennials because they are transient, they are impermanent a little bit, but there is an interesting thing i saw in the los angeles times, a ton of other periodicals. they are green thumbs among the millennial generation. laura: how do we go from containers to green thumbs? i will make this fit, hold on. listen. laura: ok. a 2017 gardening survey found that of the 6 million new gardeners in america, 5 million are age 18-34. they are millennials they are cohabitating with plants, laura plates. when there is too much of a commitment of a cat.co they don t want to go all the way with a cat laura: a cactus? a cactus or a fern will work. let s go back to the house. they are jamming their apartments with greenery because they want a sense of connectedness. my take on this is they want something natural in an impermanent world. my advice, get a pet, get a child. laura: get a child? where are you going to get that? at costco? got to get married first. that s usually how it happens. my advice, don t spend your youth on the ficus. ri it would not give you a mother s day card. when you get old, and will not order you. water you, is don t do that. there is more we have to dof that, and of course, i have to tell you about a great decision by netflix this week.et they released a notice to subscribers that they would soon be streaming a new documentary with a very snappy title.. the honorable minister louis farrakhan: my life s journey through music it was called. this week, netflix said that the documentary wouldn t be airing on their service because of a technical mix-up. this is based on a five cd musical release. i had forgotten laura: i played it on my radiors years ago! i had forgotten. ld laura: screwy louie. i wouldn t google that. laura: he s talented! a calypso singer. laura: harry belafonte of calypso. harry belafonte of hate. here is his calypso a little bit of his upcoming album that the documentary is based on. an album that speaks from the pain of the heart of a little boy wanting to see his people, this is a project that attracted some of the most brilliant,t, award-winning musicians and artists. now chaka khan, stevie wonder i hope he is going to sing a duet of you are the anti-semite of my life thatd would be cute together. chaka khan, common, why are these people lending their name to someone like louis farrakhan? this man has peddled hate like no one else. i have to tell you, when i started listening to some of his original compositions, laura, this is something you could put a playlist together, it s really fun l laura: for a radio show, yeah. for the radio show. he s got a song called heed the call, yell, of white man s heaven is a black man hell. listen. of torture, and misgivings, yet the bible speaks of a heaven filled with material luxury, which the white man and the preacher has right here. laura: [ laughter ] that s quite a . the white man s day is done. laura: there s no rhyming, i notice. this is like a cornel west, cornel west with reverend wright. it is william shatner meets reverend wright. laura: what is it? the space odyssey music in the background? hurry up. hillary, branching into tv, you teased this earlier. she has a new deal with steven spielberg. laura: of course! let me tell you about this, how did you get a good, no tv experience at all. she read a book on the suffragette movement. you like to become a product to her lawyer, bob barnett, he took it to spielberg, he bought it and made her an executive producer. this is how it happens. laura: this is how hollywood takes care of its own. you know what you need to do? find a book and bring it to your lawyer.. laura: i m sure. by the way, the notorious rbg, i was down at dinesh d souza, i went to the premiere of his movie, guess what the first break poster was, the first ruth bader ginsburg. the new superhero of the left. now the obama s netflix, hillary hillary is at cbs. she is going to be on madam secretary on their premiere, playing herself.fl you can dvr it. you love it. laura: with harvey weinstein gone, the clintons needs a benefactor in hollywood. raymond, thank you so much. i can t get that screwy louis out of my head. you will be grooving to that. laura: c no. no. no. that is. i m surprised he: didn t do it in numerology. remember the numerology? he loves the numbers. this is new to me. laura:um well, the left is enraged by a new documentary, speaking of dinesh d souza, chocked full of inflammatory claims about democrats history. he joins us with his reaction right after his world premiere tonight. the uproar next.t. h his reaction right after his world premiere tonight. the upper next both mussolini and hitler set up and ran welfare states. this was done by the liberals , the people who wanted to improve society. laura: joining us more joining us with more, dinesh d souza, whose film, as i said, had the big washington, d.c., premiere tonight. dinesh, good to see you. laura: you are really kicking the hornets nest with this film. it s out tonight. you have a book out today, we ll have you on radio tomorrow, the next day. they are saying you are making leaps of logic, democrats are the real racists, look at where they are doing to these poor kids in the detention centers. trump doesn t like brown people. he s putting his immigration enforcement into place. what is your response to all these critics?aceyop there s a lot here. the movie focuses on two things, racism on the one hand, and fascism on the other. as you know, from the time trump was elected, the left has been dropping these two big incendiary bombs, not just on trump but on the right, but on conservatives and republicans. so the movie has a historical component because it dives into what is the meaning of fascism, who is the real party of racism, but where it really kicks offff with that looks at where is the fascism today, where s the racism today?? and it shows that it is the fascist and racist tail belong not on the republican elephant but on the democratic donkey. laura: getting a lot of hits from variety, the guardian, they love you, in this embarrassing new film from the far right provocative all personal attacks, dinesh d souza, he compares donald trump to abraham lincoln, claims hitler was lgbt friendly and calls antifa the real nazis. let s talk about this trump-lincoln business. the idea of morphing their heads together but look at how similar their situations are. in 1860, outsider president, lincoln, comes in. he s narrowly elected in a three-man race.id and the moment he gets in, all hell breaks loose. the democrats in the north are calling for his assassination, which happens eventually. the democrats in the south are f willing to break off the country. so they are trying to get rid of lincoln, you may say, by any means necessary. look at how eerily similar that is our moment. trump faces a democratic party that is still refusing to accept the result of a loss of election, wants to get rid of trump however they can, and is pursuing all the strategies, including the inflammatory race card and fascism card, to discredit trump. laura: this antifa group is terrifying. black masks, whipping molotov cocktails, throwing desks through windows, with signs, stop the fascists. they are antifascist. you point out in the film, which i was lucky enough to see the first 20 minutes or so before i had to come to the show, they f want to stop speech. you have dealt with it on college campuses for decades. they want to stop speech, stop debate, and they are terrorizing people from speaking out. they look like fascist, thete act likes fascists except they could claim to be antifascist. i think i am also red, not just i think i m also worried not just by fascists on the street butde i would call antifa the fascism of the deep state. when a party employs the weapons of the state, the fbi, irs that s as close as you ll get to clinical fascism style. yet it s coming from the left. laura: richard spencer is him on the left holds up as he s alt-right, he is the real republican party, he s racist, and you actually interviewed him. he was at that charlottesville rally. you interviewed him in the movie. let s watch. what would be your take on reagan?? i do not think he was a great president. who is your favorite president? there was something about jackson. they are something about polk, as well, someone who only served one term. jackson and polk, bothhi democrats. party party is just the vessel that one uses. jackson is the founder of the democratic party. nd laura: dinesh, you and i have been doing this politics culture stuff since we were at dartmouth together in the 1980 s. have you ever i ve never heard of this richard spencer until 5 minutes ago. i literally had never heard of him. there is a deep strain of leftism inside the white nationalist movement. jason kessler, the organizer of the charlottesville rally, was an obama supporter. think about it. a white supremacist who voted for obama. and in occupy wall street guy. now this guy, richard spencer, and the core part of the interview, i asked him, where do your rights come from? they come from god? he goes, no. we don t have any rights. the right that we have are given to us by the government. so he s a statist, he s aha collectivist. and yet the left, when they see this, it horrifies them because it doesn t fit their narrative. and so they don t want to interview spencer in this kindfi of thing. i think the movie in a way blows the whistle on charlottesville and that whole charlottesville narrative and it blows it up and shows that there is a whole unreported side of it in which the left statists are trying ultimately to smear the right with guys like spencer, who are their willing accomplices. laura: do you think this movie in a way is a combination of, the liberal education you wrote the what s it called? the end of racism. laura: the end of racism. a lot of the stuff you ve written about in a way comes together right before the midterms. everybody has to see this film. the race narrative i have been pursuing for 20 years. the fascism narrative is new and it s eye-opening to me. we have a scene in the movie, of nazis getting ready to pass the nuremberg laws against the jews and they have the laws of the democratic jim crow south and may have them as the nazi laws.a laura: we can t expect our high school kids to learn any of these facts today. congratulations, book, movie, you re driving allll the right people crazy. thanks so much for being here tonight. but just how easy is it for noncitizens to vote? cast ballots? can t be that easy, right? guess what, michelle malkin will tell us the truth next. allots? can be that easy, right? guess what, michelle malkin will tell us the truth laura: a disturbing report is raising questions about non-u.s. citizens ability to register to vote and cast ballots. the washington times reportedt noncitizens are signing up to vote in states including pennsylvania, new jersey, and virginia, according to the research where the public interest legal foundation, the nonprofit organization. they advocate for election integrity. they found that a lot of those that noncitizens manage to cast ballots as well. yet, here s a common refrain we always hear from democrats. the voter fraud mantra is said so often, it is almost saia robotically, that some people have unthinkingly begun to believe that the issue is real. this whole notion of elections, or voting fraud this is something that has that is constantly been disproved. this is fake news. the notion that they are a whole bunch of people out there who are going out there and are not eligible to vote and want to vote. we have the opposite problem. laura: joining us now with the reaction, conservative commentator, crtv host michelle malkin. those golden oldies are just they are the gifts that keep on giving. they are always worried about voter i.d. because they think it is so hard to get a government issued i.d. in this country, really difficult. they think that is onerous. but then they are not worried about illegal immigrant voting, they brushed it off, even if it cancels out a legal citizen s vote in any given reaction. your reaction to this report? laura, first of all, i commend the public interest legal foundation for doing the work that the liberal, open borders press won t do. you ve got the leftists in the elite media screaming about foreign interference and meddling in our political system and having noncitizens and illegal aliens voting at our ballot boxes is the textbook definition of foreign meddling. this goes back years and years and years. back when i lived on the east coast, of course, all around me, all of the counties in then-liberal blue maryland were inviting noncitizens, and they kept it very vague. they said, we only want illegal immigrants who haven t naturalized yet to be able to feel a part of the process and cast their ballots and school boards. this has been the gateway, laura, as you know, for all manner of legalizing illegal aliens participation in civic and electoral life. it is radical and it s transformative and it s happened right before our eyes, all legally. that is the real scandal here. whether it is judicial watch or project veritas, and the last several election cycles, has been able to do undercover work, show that democrats are nonchalant about it, what itec shows you are that these people are more interested in banning plastic straws and 3d guns than they are in illegal aliens from the ballot box. laura: yeah, did you see the story, of course, this week and last week, san francisco, local board elections, school board elections, illegal immigrants now can vote? they say, look, there s a community. they re in the community. why shouldn t they have a right to vote? now we have that ninth circuit ruling today that you can t defund sanctuary cities. you can always count on the ninth circuit court of appeals on the issue of immigration to get it wrong. i m sure it ll be reversed at the supreme court, but nevertheless, the president is up against a completely biased media, purposefully ill-informed media, run-away judges until he can appoint more and democrats and the old g.o.p. guards and theyey don t want that wall. let s face it. the g.o.p. on capitol hill, they do not want this wall, correct, michelle? do not want it? yes, they don t and we ve fought these people for a long time,he you and i, laura, long before there were a lot of johnnie-come-latelies on this issue. we can smoke out the phonies and the lip-service payers from the people who truly believe in these fundamental principles of sovereignty. it ll be a reckoning come these midterms. i ve saidd many times as people have tried to sort of downplay the internal strife over this, of course, it should be front and center in front of the midterms. i mean, it s the gallop polls are now showing the majority of americans are with us more than ever and you ve got left-wing enclaves, even in oregon which now has an anti-sanctuary measure on the ballot, and it qualified withas, i think something like 50,000 or 60,000 more signatures than were needed. that s left-wing pacific northwest oregon. when is the g.o.p. going to get the message? michelle malkin, you have done such great reporting on this and you re also doing some reporting on another case, we re going to trye to get to it next week. it involves criminal justice reform. i tweeted something you know what i m talking about i don t want to get too far into it. i do. laura: i want to bring you back to discuss that particular case next week. thank you so much. thank you, laura. i m so grateful. wrongful convictions are a huge issue for me. laura: yeah, wrongful convictions. prosecutors who are out of control in our country and peoplecu rotting in prison when they could be gainful members of society. there s a lot of abuses out there we really appreciate your covering that.y michelle malkin, thank you so much. we have a lot to still getha to. we ll squeeze it in, if we can, when we come back.
Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with in-depth reporting and investigations. the cleanup was after the helsinki summit saying he meant to say wouldn t instead of would although in that cleanup the president said it could be others meddling and since then calling the russia story a hoax and investigation rigged. the difference between the president s reluctance to call out russia and the security team s willingness to was noticeable. striking enough to call out this question from dni coats. in the run-up to the helsinki summit,s u.s. officials, nato ambassadors to russia said the president would raise the issue of maligned activity with the president. he didn t address that. you said to make the issue of meddling a priority. how do you explain the disconnect between what you are speech and his officials were so clear in the russia involvement. i think the fact the president continues to acknowledge this is exactly why the intel chiefs had to do this. when you have a threat from a foreign adversary, attack, you need the united states to speaker with one voice and that voice usually comes from the president of the united states, to say, this is who we are, this is what our values are. this is important when there is misinformation, part of the attack is a misinformation campaign. the president, consciously or not, is actually doing putin s work for him. he is echoing and amplifying divisive messages putin is hoping to sow and delegitimizing rhetoric. so i think that part of fight willing back is for these intel chiefs is to make this public statement. phil, you worked for the cia and fbi in your long career. does it really matter whether or not the president is echoing what the national security apparatus is saying as long as you have chris wray, dni coats, nielsen, all pointing at russia, saying we re aware of this, working on this, doing everything we can to make sure the sanctity of the voting process remains. time-out, anderson. 95% of the americans couldn t name one of the people who spoke today. can t name the national security advisor and can t name the cabinet members. they can name the president of the united states and he has at least two major responsibilities here well beyond the intel that people like me who used to be on the inside would ask him to do. number one, what is the message to vladamir putin after we see this happening only a week after helsinki, the president told vladamir putin why don t you visit the white house. i can tell you the consequences on vladamir putin are nothing. if the russians continue to this, the answer to trump is, sure, i ll go visit the white house and we don t have to talk about it. one final point and more significant, the domestic message the president has to send, in new york you live in new york, anderson, time and time again they say the new york police department and fbi have secret work to do. if you see something say something. the governor and mayor had a message to the people. and the facebook intervention they talked about this week, what has the president said to the american people and who is the messenger to the american people. i don t see one, anderson. if this were so important, should the president have been there or echoed this at least tonight saying, you know, i ve i totally agree with what my intelligence chiefs said and as opposed to talking about it as a hoax? of course, anderson but it is clear the president does not agree with what the intelligence chiefs are saying. you saw the clip a few moments ago he called this a hoax and they are saying this is a major danger to the united states. one of the most revealing lines is when john bolton said, the president has made very clear what his priorities are. by that, i think bolton meant he has a priority focusing on russia. in fact, the president has made very clear his priority is not to focus on the russian threat, he only views this through his prism of his own political self-interest. he doesn t care about getting to the root of the russian interference in the 2016 election or in the future, all he cares about is saving his own political skin, which is why he and other senior officials have now taken to referring to the mueller probe as a rigged witch hunt delegitimizing the investigation and essentially doing vladamir putin s work for him. i talked to michael hayden and director clapper, all saying having the president be the one on top of all his national security apparatus directing all of their efforts. we heard from each of these people individually. chris wray testified in congress what the fbi is doing to try to counter-russia in the upcoming election and dni coats and others express concerns. people who worked in intelligence agencies and the fbi all say it is critical for the president to be the one setting the agenda and giving it all a sense of urgency and coordination. do you agree with that? absolutely. one of the things after 9/11, in light of the 9/11 commission s recommendations was to break down barriers in terms of sharing intelligence, create the office of the director of national intelligence in order to bring all these different perspectives these agencies have so that good policy can be made. that is made at the top by the president of the united states. many things, covert actions abroad, have to be authorized by him in writing with a finding it s important to national security. so, in many ways, these agencies cannot act effectively without him getting on board and without him creating a coordinated strategy and tell them exactly what he wants them to do. did it jump out to you that he s not fully aware what happened at the summit or talk about it? not understanding or having been reliably been briefed by the president exactly what he said to vladamir putin, i find that surprising. it is. let me make this real to you. if there is a conversation between the president and putin about election interference and putin makes specific representations about what he will or will not do. let s take it further, say there s a conversation about syria and russian engagement in syria and putin makes representations to the president. who will verify what putin says to the president? the director of the national intelligence. the dni coming out of helsinki should be saying, putin said this, mr. president and this is what putin said after speaking about russian interference. instead, what he told us, you just reported to us he doesn t know what happened. i have spoken quite a bit about what happened in helsinki, what do you think about what dni coats said? it s deeply disturbing. this is a president accused very credibly of colluding with russia in 2016. evidence is piling up including the recent cnn report michael cohen is prepared to testify donald trump knew in advance about the meeting between the russians and the trump campaign. you have a president suspected of working with russia to affect american democracy. the same president is in an off the record meeting with the russian president where nobody including the national security knows what happened. this is not diplomacy as usual, very unusual and disturbing and worrisome given the unique vulnerability of donald trump to russian pressure. thanks very much. next, the revelation of manafort s trial, not how little money he had but how little he had when he went to work for donald trump, riches to rags tail. and you ll hear it when we come back about. also breaking news on alleged spy maria butina. what it might say about how russian intelligence operates in the u.s. but just one can behr through it all. behr premium plus, a top rated interior paint at a great price. family friendly, disaster proof. find it exclusively at the home depot. where we re changing withs? 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talk to your doctor today, and learn how janssen can help you explore cost support options. remission can start with stelara®. cback pain can t win. now introducing aleve back and muscle pain. only aleve targets tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. aleve back & muscle. all day strong. all day long. you shouldn t be rushed into booking a hotel. with expedia s add-on advantage, booking a flight unlocks discounts on select hotels until the day you leave for your trip. add-on advantage. only when you book with expedia. breaking news tonight, day three of the paul manafort trial over. it was dominated by a prosecution witness that told the jury manafort was in serious financial trouble in 2016 after his lobbying business dried up. that was his long-time bookkeeper full of details. manafort was basically broke when he took the job on the trump campaign. that s interesting. he was. he was in serious financial trouble according to the testimony of his bookkeeper. she was on the stand for several hours. she talked about how strapped for cash he was after his lobbying business in ukraine dried up. it was so bad he was in danger of losing his health insurance. in one e-mail said he needed $120,000 urgently to pay some personal bills. we ve been talking about this. it was stunning change of fortune for the man buying $15,000 ostrich coats now scrambling for money in 2016. this was also right at the time he joined the trump campaign to work for free and also at a time he helped a bank executive at bank who gave him a loan to get a job with the trump campaign, too. these are the details prosecutors are putting out for the jury. as much as the defense shows the bad guy her exact quote was he approved every penny of everything we paid. not only that, the bookkeeper describes in details how manafort lied to the banks. prosecutors show a side by side of documents. one where the book keeper told one bank that manafort s company lost more than $1 million in 2016. manafort, he sent the same person at that same bank a different financial statement saying his company actually made $3 million by around the same time period. prosecutors are priming this jury with a lot of evidence for charges to show he committed tax fraud, too. and saying now gates will testify. they floated will he or won t they, they weren t sure. they finally said they will call gates, today or tomorrow. and will manafort testify? that s something the judge brought up. they want to bring in evidence manafort was ever audited by the irs. the judge said, if you want that evidence or testimony to come in, it would be much better if paul manafort testifies, the next big question. appreciate it. still breaking news what that russian woman arrested for conspiracy and acting as a russian agent, forever she acted as charged and some info on her skillset with politician, a hint, she wasn t exactly subtle. what are you learning? she wasn t exactly subtle. she is innocent until proven guilty but an alleged russian spy. she didn t use the kind of spy technology we would expect, communicating on twitter and what s-up, with those her own age and older men. she was so flirtatious, men walked away wondering what her ulterior motive was, what she wanted from them. this gives you the various ways moscow runs its influence operation, that s what experts said when i asked about her spy tactics. look, vladamir putin has a number of seasoned operatives he can plant in the u.s. to run operations for him. he also will tap people like maria butina through other people he knows to gain information and access in the u.s. that s what prosecutors say is going on in this case, anderson. did she talk about ties to russian intelligence at any point? she did. this is one of the allegations that has come out against her from some of her classmates who wish to remain anonymous, there were a couple instances she actually was intoxicated according to sources who were familiar with this and talked about her ties to the russian government and talked about her ties to russian intelligence and talked about how she ran a gun rights group from moscow and sort of had the buy-in to russian intelligence. this was so alarming to some people she said it in front of, on two separate instances, her classmates reported it to law enforcement. what does her lawyer say? he says she was completely innocent, an american university student, not a spy. she s pleaded not guilty to charges of conspiracy as well as acting as a foreign agent in the u.s. but he also said in other interviews he believes sexism and this anti-russian sentiment given the political climate now has tainted the case against her. he hasn t fully made these arguments in court but she s back in september and we will hear more in the courtroom. more breaking news who robert mueller wants to talk to now in his investigation, a name that goes back to the russians in the campaign and you might be surprised to it. also, there s new insight on whether the president wants to sit down with the special council or not. could there be a method behind the choice legal experts call not a great idea. the legal team weighs in when 360 continues. my car smells good. it s these new fresh-fx car air fresheners from armor all. each scent can create a different mood in my car. like tranquil skies. armor all, it s easy to smell good. bundle and save big, but now it s time to find my dream abode. -right away, i could tell his priorities were a little unorthodox. -keep going. stop. a little bit down. stop. back up again. is this adequate sunlight for a komodo dragon? -yeah. -sure, i want that discount on car insurance just for owning a home, but i m not compromising. -you re taking a shower? -water pressure s crucial, scott! it s like they say location, location, koi pond. -they don t say that. but it s tough to gete enough of their nutrients.ond. new one a day with nature s medley is the only complete multivitamin with antioxidants from one total serving of fruits and veggies try new one a day with nature s medley. do you think the president wants to sit down or part of a strategy? it s probably both. donald trump is nothing if not self-confident. he s testified a lot and given a lot of depositions in civil cases. he s mostly done better than badly in those cases. everybody focuses on the tim o brien case in the new york times but actually done well. he s never been charged with perjury in what he said in those depositions. he has done well. most of those cases have wound upsetting rather than going to a resolution. i think he s confident in handling a deposition. i think it s part of his brand not to be afraid of anything. i think he wants to be perceived as someone who has nothing to hide and will testify. i think there is really, at least a measure of candor in what he s saying that he does want to testify. this seems to be how donald trump has approached a lot of situations in his life believing he can if he talks to somebody he can convince them. he can be very charming when he wants to be. is that something he s had all his life? it absolutely is a quality he s exhibited all of his life. i only found really one example of an interview where he just couldn t bring anybody around, and it was one of the early ones he did with time magazine. he bumped into a reporter who actually reminded me temperamentally what people say about robert mueller. he was a pretty upstanding straight ahead guy and trump just couldn t win him over. for the most part, he is able to win people over. he gets them relaxed and charms them and i think he even surprises them when he s not super aggressive. he could attempt that. as mentioned he has experience testifying in depositions. he even images himself as a lawyer himself he has spent so much time with attorneys he feels expert. if there is an interview with mueller, there s not going to be a judge there. he can filibuster. you ve interviewed the then candidate trump, he talks and talks and that could eat up practically the whole interview. i think he knows that. just a prosecutor sitting there is not going to be able to say to him, stop talking. he is in many respects going to be able to control what happens if there is an interview. again, that doesn t mean it s necessarily a good idea for him. he has a lot of tools at his disposal. i spoke to alan dershowitz last night, saying he always tries to get clients not to do an interview in this situation, it s a perjury trap waiting to happen. if you re not lying, how is it a perjury trap? a perjury trap has always been a meaningless expression to me. if you tell the truth, you re not going to be perjured? dershowitz says if there s somebody else who believes they re telling the truth, a different version of events what the president is saying prosecutors can go with that person s version. > have too much respect for mueller that they would simply bring some sort of action. remember, there s not going to be a criminal prosecution out of here. all that s going to come out of this is some sort of report. the mere fact that two people have different recollections of an event does not create an create a perjury trap. that happens all the time. the fact that there s a legal trap is a bogus argument. according to the times, if the president sits down with them he can convince them their own inquiry is a witch hunt and obviously shows confidence in his own ability to sway people. of course, he s ever consecutive. i think in this case the stakes are much higher than the stakes he s faced in any litigation prior. there is that factor to consider. believe it or not he does imagine himself to be the actual president of the united states. he doesn t act like it a lot. he does, i think, have in mind his legacy. that could move him to resist ultimately cooperating as much as robert mueller would have him cooperate. he s going to be more careful than usual, uncharacteristically careful, i think. remember, too, what i think he s really trying to convince is the public, not so much the mueller people. he s been pretty effective. look how republicans have shifted over the course of the mueller investigation. his people have come around on mueller to feeling it s a witch hunt. i don t think he really believes he will convince mueller he s engaged in a witch hunt, i do think he believes at least his supporters will feel that way if they don t already. lastly, i want to ask you about the reporting that the mueller team is seeking to interview this russian pop star behind the introductions setting up the trump tower meeting. how likely is that it that would actually happen? why would some russian citizen do that? the pop star who is the person that engineered the infamous tower meeting. he spends a lot of time in the united states and grew up in new jersey. he s english. he will not get within a mile of this. his father, who financed the miss universe in moscow in 2013, he will stay farther away. i m not surprised the mueller team is trying to get to them but i wouldn t hold their breath. as we mentioned, president trump is on the campaign trail again, on the rally with a crowd where people who believe in conspiracy theories, call themselves q anon. we ll hear what they have to say. what does help for heart the beat goes on. it looks like emily cooking dinner for ten. the beat goes on. it looks like jonathan on a date with his wife. la-di-la-di. entresto is a heart failure medicine that helps your heart. so you can keep on doing what you love. in the largest heart failure study ever, entresto was proven superior at helping people stay alive and out of the hospital. it helps improve your heart s ability to pump blood to the body. don t take entresto if pregnant; it can cause harm or death to an unborn baby. don t take entresto with an ace inhibitor or aliskiren, or if you ve had angioedema with an ace or arb. the most serious side effects are angioedema, low blood pressure, kidney problems, or high blood potassium. ask your doctor about entresto for heart failure. yeah! entrust your heart to entresto. the beat goes on. chicken! that s right, chicken?! candace new chicken creations from starkist. buffalo style chicken in a pouch bold choice, charlie! just tear, eat. mmmmm. and go! try all of my chicken creations! chicken! what they told us was quite interesting. waiting in line in a driving rain, very motivated trump supporters, wanting to see the president in person in wilkes-barry, pennsylvania. we are q. reporter: some of those people wearing and holding the 17th letter of the alphabet. reporter: you re holding a red, white and blue q. why do you have it? it s shift. reporter: you are wearing a shirt that says it means where we go one we go all. q anon is the people that believe in what trump s trying to do to change our country. reporter: that is a generalization. more specifically what q anon is, is a fringe movement in which many baseless conspiracy theories are discussed on the internet, organized on the idea of anonymous but well-connected persons nicknamed q. your shirt says the storm is here. what does that mean to you? i ve been following the posts since october 28th. reporter: on the internet. the person other persons who say they re q. right. what is q? an entity of 10 or less people that have a problem with the government? have high security clearance. reporter: how do you know that? i m telling you this is what i appears to be. appears to be. this is what you re guessing. you don t have proof there isn t. we ve all been gathering online talking as americans and uniting. reporter: do you think it makes you comfortable talking with other frustrated people? yes. reporter: maybe there s no evidence of it. stuff talked about it on the internet. there hasn t been non-evidence yet? reporter: and a major this is press is the enemy. you don t believe in the first amendment? i do. you guys are weaponized. reporter: what is that? i don t know anybody in the cia except a couple people over the years. what does it mean? conspiracy theorists. reporter: do you think i m weaponized by the cia? maybe not to your knowledge. that s unfortunate. reporter: you believe there is a deep state? yes. reporter: what do you think that deep state is doing? running this country? i think they were and they re petrified now because they re losing their control. reporter: donald trump is the president. he s running the country, right? yeah. he s having to fight against them. reporter: he said he could do it all himself. you think he s fighting with the deep state a year and a half in his term? i think he was fighting before he was elected. reporter: who is in the deep state? the clinton and bushes and obamas. reporter: you think the clintons and bushes and obamas are running this country as we stand here in the rain? no. they re trying. reporter: the anonymous q is a hero to many, one man hoping to believe in q looking straight into our camera. is it possible you re believing in bogus information? let s see, q, let s see. did you get large numbers of people lining up at the rally support the q? what sort of numbers did you see? reporter: i don t think there were large numbers, anderson. a lot of people we talked to had no idea what it was. other people wanted to see donald trump and other people wanted to see the president of the united states with their children. it seems like a relatively small number. i will tell you it s catching on and i would anticipate at future rallies we will see more people holding big qs and clothes with qs on them. do they think the president supports q anon. reporter: sarah sanders was asked about it and did not give any indication at all the president supports it. each and every person i talked to who follows this does believe donald trump is a supporter even though he hasn t said so. appreciate you being there. joining me now is will summer, reporter for the daily beast writing for q non since its inception. do you have any idea how many people believe ins the conspiracy theories? i certainly don t want to paint people they were saying it s relatively small number of people who went to this rally. hard to tell how many people believe in it. you wouldn t want to say everyone at the rally, a diehard trump supporter. at the same time, the numbers at these rallies we re seeing, maybe a couple dozen believers. that s pretty bizarre in april there was a rally in d.c., a couple hundred people showed up. they were chanting the qanon slogans. you know, whatever it is, did is remarkable that so many people have become convinced of this. from what i understand, they have people believing the qanon thing. have a different belief in what the robert mueller investigation actually is? yes. they have come to believe that robert mueller is in league with trump and an ally of his, and it s a ruse to cover up that he s really investigating hillary clinton or barack obama. why would trump be attacking the mueller investigation? that s all part of the ruse? i understand a rival to q has now emerged. people who go by the letter r? q kind of disappeared in july, his followers are very devoted. they were left bereft and someone named r showed up. they said, maybe this is the new guy to follow. and they posited that r was jfk jr. who died nearly 2 decades ago. does this have anything to do with the pizza gate foekds? there are republicans that hillary clinton and others are running a pedophile ring in a pizza parlor in the basement? absolutely. a key part of qanon is not just that trump is fighting against the deep state or the clintons. he s fighting against global pedestrian fire networks all over the world. they have no evidence for this, it s crazy stuff. i understand that some people believe that the president has given them secret signs that the way he holds his hand or puts some fingers together he s forming the letter q during speeches? yes, they re obsessed with getting some sort of validation from trump that q is real. they ll look at videos and saying, maybe he s moving his hand in a way that he s mentioning q. they ve been asking a lot of white house reporters to ask trump about q. they seem to feel that this if trump was asked about it, they re convinced he would say, oh, yeah, it s all real. does anyone seem to know who the person q actually is. or if it s a one person or groups of people? q s identity is very mysterious. maybe a foreign operative, there s a lot of theorys going around. really nothing that i think is worth considering. i think perhaps it s just a troll or a couple trolls in the basement somewhere and this whole thing has gotten out of hand. can you explain again the core belief. the whole international pedophile ring linked with the deep state. and robert mueller is yeah, it s very confusing. i mean sort of the and it s constantly growing. something will happen in the news and they ll claim, oh, the deep state tried to shoot down air force one. sort of the gist of it is that trump has teamed up with the military and sort of various virtuous world leaders, including vladimir putin and kim jong-un to take on this global cabal of democrats and hollywood elites and bankers and all this kind of stuff, who they claim are essentially responsible for all the evil in the world and soon trump will have all these people arrested. william sommer, i appreciate your reporting. fascinating stuff. i want to check in with chris to see what he s working on for cuomo prime time at the top of the hour. like every other fringe group, they can believe whatever they want. it s what they do in the name of those beliefs that raises concern just like fringe groups on the left and others on the right. that was a good interview to have. we re going to be taking on the news tonight from a legal and a political perspective. we ve got governor kasich on the show. we ve got former a.g. mukasey on the show. we re going to be testing out different theories of what s going on with the russia probe and what needs to happen in the next set of elections. then we re going to take a look at what the pope said about the death penalty and what it means to be pro-life and how a lot of people who may think they re pro-life may not meet the standard according to the pope. interesting. about 8 1/2 minutes from now. up next, the search is on for this man who police say shot and killed a famed cardiologist. according to investigators, he held a grudge against the doctor, carried out a brazen execution on a bicycle in broad daylight. the police are looking for information about this person. more details ahead in a moment. you shouldn t be rushed into booking a hotel. with expedia s add-on advantage, booking a flight unlocks discounts on select hotels until the day you leave for your trip. add-on advantage. only when you book with expedia. add-on advantage. but behr premium stain y can weather any weather. overall #1 rated, weathers it all. find our most advanced formula exclusively at the home depot. but climbing 58,070 steps a year can be hard on her feet, knees, and lower back. that s why she wears dr. scholl s orthotics. they re clinically proven to relieve pain and give you the comfort to move more. dr. scholl s, born to move. then, use the ultimate power handshake, the upper hander with a double palm grab. who has the upper hand now? start winning today. book now at lq.com. back pain can t win. now introducing aleve back and muscle pain. only aleve targets tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. aleve back & muscle. all day strong. all day long. there s a manhunt in houston, texas, tonight. police are looking for a man accused of killing a renowned cardiologist who once performed surgery on george h.w. bush. the doctor was gunned down on his way to work at a hospital. he and the gunman were both riding bicycles. when their paths crossed, the gunman opened fire. this is the suspect caught on surveillance video moments before the deadly attack. with more on the manhunt and the crime, here s cnn s ed lavandera. reporter: houston investigators say as soon as joseph pappas suspected that investigators were closing in on him, he jumped on his ten-speed schwinn bicycle, pedaled away from his neighborhood, and disappeared. police chief art acevedo says there s a sense of urgency to capture the 62-year-old murder suspect. he s in great shape. he s a great marksman, and he s a great danger. so let s hope that somebody knows where he s at and calls us. reporter: investigators believe pappas motive for killing dr. mark hausknecht was a grudge he s held for more than 20 years. that s when the suspect s mother died during surgery while being operated on by hausknecht. on the morning of july 20th, dr. hausknecht was riding his bicycle down this sidewalk. his wife said investigators told her that the gunman emerged from this scaffolding head-on and fired at him three times. it was a brazen attack. it occurred at the height of morning rush hour on this busy street. perhaps the gunfire was muzzled by the sounds coming from this construction site. but police say it was a well thought out and planned attack. so much so that it allowed the gunman to ride away on his own bicycle this way as if nothing had happened. chief acevedo tells cnn evidence found inside pappas home shows the murder was painstakingly planned. this man was actually studying this doctor, studying what he was doing for a while, and it took great planning and ultimately great skill to do what he did. and i m just thankful that we now know who he is and now with the help of the public and our great investigators, we ll find him. one way or the other, we re going to find him. reporter: joseph pappas spent 30 years working in law enforcement as a constable in houston. he started a real estate business several years ago. that s where he paid our bill. reporter: joe donaldson owns a legal courier business and he says he spoke to joseph pappas just before the murder. pappas hired donaldson to file legal documents in a houston courthouse. the documents transferred the deed for his houston home to a woman in ohio. donaldson says after leaving, pappas called him multiple times that morning to make sure the documents were filed. he was very nervous. he opened the door to a crack looking out. then he opened it a little more. then he opened it fully and was looking up and down the street, seeing if anyone else was there. reporter: for days joseph pappas stayed around his houston home. one neighborhood even says he was seen mowing his lawn this past sunday morning before disappearing when police first checked on his home on tuesday night. ed joins us now from houston. what are investigators worried about given his law enforcement background? reporter: multiple things. he might try to, you know, carry out a similar attack or want to you know, he s very skilled at being able to handle the firearm, that sort of thing. but one of the other concerns is he might somehow still have access to police radio scanners and be able to monitor the manhunt for him. the police chief here in houston tells me that that is one thing they are concerned about and that they re looking into it and how they handle the search for him. and they re assuming he s still armed and dangerous? reporter: yeah, absolutely. the police chief says that, you know, no reason to believe he isn t armed and dangerous at this point given what he s already done. the other thing is that they have talked to somebody close to pappas, who told police that he received a text from pappas several days ago that he might
Analysis and discussion of the day s top stories and compelling issues from Lawrence O Donnell. this will play out. which, as of tonight, could serve as the headline for the status of everything. still under investigation by the special prosecutor. unclear how this will play out. leading off our discussion now, joyce nance, former special prosecutor. and former counsel to the mayor of new york city and eugene robinson, opinion writer for the washington post. he s an msnbc political analyst. and you are a former federal prosecutor also. what do you make of the giuliani conditions for the interview? well, in fairness i was in the civil division of the u.s. attorneys office. i will say that unfortunately giuliani has become someone whose career is not going to be looked at quite the same light as it was before this because he really had a storied career. and what we re seeing is just this complete disintegration of what was a credible lawyer into someone who has lost all credibility. while i have never agreed with rudy giuliani on many issues, including when he was mayor of new york city, i have to say i am shocked about his behavior as a lawyer. it seems that the giuliani proposition, if true, and let me just i should have prefaced all the of this which we have no idea what the truth is here. the mueller investigation has not leaked out a word, a document, nothing. if there has been communication about this recently from the mueller team to the giuliani team, we have to believe rudy giuliani s account of that, which is an extremely difficult thing to do. but let s do it for the sake of this discussion. but the truth is we have no idea what communication has been going on. but if the giuliani conditions are what s being communicated to mueller, is there any way for mueller to accept those conditions? it really depends on what mueller thinks he needs out of this interview. and of course we don t know all of the cards that he s holding right now. but one thing prosecutors don t do when they need an interview with a witness, they don t negotiate because they have the subpoena power. and it is abundantly clear at least in my judgment that they don t plan on indicting the president because they are seeking this interview. according to giuliani and the president s lawyers, they have already said he is a subject, not a target. if mueller needs information that giuliani and the other lawyers aren t willing to seed them the authority to ask, they will simply issue a subpoena for the president and then let that run its way through the court process. how long would that take through the court process? you know, that s a really good question. it would depend on which grand jury they use. they could either go through d.c. or through virginia, which would be the fourth circuit. even if those were treated as emergency appeals, it would stretch on for some time. then it would likely go up to the united states supreme court. they could either decide it or return it in part to the lower court. we could be looking at a process that would stretch out over months. that s one of the reasons why republicans are racing as fast as they can to confirm the next supreme court justice, it is the route that joyce just described. but the giuliani game of he wants to testify. the new york times reporting last night as if it was breaking news that there are people in the white house who tell the nonew york times that the president really wants to talk to the special prosecutor, but it is his lawyers who are reluctant. there is absolutely no way to back that up. we have no idea whether donald trump actually wants to talk to mueller or not. all the indicators are that he s desperately afraid of talking to mueller. yeah. he ought to be, i think. if he s not. it is true that donald trump does appear to believe he can talk his way out of anything, just by lying, basically. that would be a really, really bad strategy to take into a meeting with the prosecutors. and that surely is what his lawyers are worried about. i do believe that his lawyers don t want him to go in there and talk. and as to whether, you know, he really wants to do it or really doesn t want to do it, who knows. it could depend on the day. but as you said at the beginning, if we re taking rudy giuliani s word for this, we are really out on a very slender limb. it s frankly hard to talk about what rudy says because we know that a lot of it, and i think the technical term for it is total crap. i mean, it s just not true. let s listen to the way the president s allies are talking about this possible interview publically. let s listen to the way newt gingrich describes the situation. i think the president is very unwise to walk into a perjury trap against a group of smart guys who have spent a year s time getting ready to try to kill him. and i think he is not no one is smart enough to take on all of mueller s team. and of course there is no such thing as a perjury trap. all you have in perjury is someone who didn t tell the truth under oath. that s right. in other words, newt gingrich is saying it would be unwise for the president to take an oath. but in that you re seeing a communication to the president s supporters out there, to the president s base saying this is an unfair process. it is a trap and it would be the wise course for the president is to avoid this kind of sleazy lawyer trap. you know, and there is the truth of it, which is it would be extremely ill advised for the president to talk to mueller. anybody who was his attorney would say don t do it because it s not that it s a perjury trap. it s because he has a lot to be concerned about in terms of the questions he will get. he s already got inconsistent statements in the public per view. there is no way you can walk into an interview with a prosecutor with inconsistent statements, including some things that could easily and in my view would be an admission of guilt, particularly on an obstruction charge, which is why they don t want obstruction as part of the interview. that part i believe. if there is an interview, they don t want any conversation about obstruction. i think it actually points to something that i think i will disagree with joyce on. it is one thing to say he s a subject, that donald trump is a subject of an investigation. subjects can become targets. the fact they have said he s a subject doesn t mean he can become a target, which is the very reason why they don t want him to testify. i think you re absolutely right. this entire political strategy, not legal strategy, but political strategy has been to convince the trump base that there is nothing they should be concerned about in terms of trump s behavior. here is the question i would ask anyone without regard to political affiliation. if you have nothing to hide, you cooperate. this is not cooperation. yeah. and, joyce, to that issue of subject versus target, it is a lock ti long time ago we got this information that we were told he was a subject. i think it was last year. so there s been plenty of time for that to have shifted. that s true. and as mia says, many of us have contemplated could there be such a significant quantum of evidence against the president at some point that he would become a target? but doj has a long standing policy for reasons that folks have debated whether they re still viable or not, but it concludes the sitting president cannot be indicted. there are many people who believe that mueller will not buck that precedent, particularly since he brought with him from the solicitor general s office an appellate lawyer who is known for his institutionalist views. so the consensus seems to be among many people that mueller would be far more likely to include all of this evidence in a report that would go up on the hill, that would form the body potentially of an impeachment proceeding if the folks on the hill at that point were deciding to go that direction, rather than making the president the target of an investigation and also an indictment. when you are using the word ta target, you mean in direct relationship to the other worth indictme indictment . yeah, exactly. that s a term of art within the department of justice. but he is, in effect, gene robinson, a target for impeachment in the outcome of this investigation, especially on the question of obstruction of justice. the only person who could obstruct justice in this story is donald trump. yeah. and certainly the only person who has done it repeatedly and in public to say nothing of what he might have done in private that we don t know about. i guess one question i would have about this whole stage of the investigation is whether the president could in fact be named, if there is a conspiracy alleged in the final analysis by mueller, if he could be named as an unindicted coconspirator as richard nixon was years ago? is that a possibility to joyce or mia? i think to joyce s point, which is an important one, this does depend on how the department of justice looks at this institutionally. we already have a congress that s going after rod rosenstein for impeachment literally for acquitting his responsibility to the united states of america. it s very hard to know. but i actually think, and i m one of the folks that thinks that it also depends what the court of public opinion says. if there is sufficient evidence that becomes public that donald trump committed crimes beyond obstruction of justice, which i think is already in the public record, that there could be a reckoning that creates even potentially constitutional crisis. but certainly unindicted coconspirator would be if there is sufficient direct evidence. last word on unindicted coconspirator. i think it s likely that we will see the president as an unindicted coconspirator. what that means is he won t be named. he won t be indicted and justice department policy is not to include the name of a target that you don t indict in a case. so that s why his name won t be used. much as we saw in mueller s most recent indictment where people quickly realize that roger stone was the person referenced in a series of conversations, we might see the president in a cameo appearance like that in a subsequent mueller indictment. thank you very starting us off tonight. really appreciate it. when we come back, ivanka trump proved today that she is the only member of the white house staff who knows she absolutely cannot be fired. she said she disagreed with her father s policy of separating children from their parents on the southern border. she did not explain why she did absolutely nothing about it. and why she hasn t visited the southern border to tell her father what is really happening to those children. and republicans continue to try to push the confirmation of brett kavanaugh to the supreme court so that perhaps he will be there in time to rule on any appeal of any issue involving robert mueller and the president of the united states. fruits and veggies are essential to your health, but it s tough to get enough of their nutrients. new one a day with nature s medley is the only complete multivitamin with antioxidants from one total serving of fruits and veggies try new one a day with nature s medley. olay regenerist wipes out the competition; hydrating better than $100, $200 even $400 creams. with our b3 complex, beautiful skin doesn t have to cost a fortune. olay. trump white house held a campaign event today. our focus here today is simply to tell the american people we acknowledge the threat. it is real. it is continuing. and we re doing everything we can to have a legitimate election that the american people can have trust in. faced with some recent bad polls, the trump team decided to put on a show at the white house demonstrating how seriously they take the issue of election security before the election that will determine which party is in control of the impeachment process. the trump political team realizes the president s lies about maybe it wasn t russia attacked our election are not working and knowing they cannot get the president to say the right thing rn, they decided toe cabinet members to do that today. the president is so worried about who will be in charge of the impeachment process, that he threw himself into a senate campaign in pennsylvania in which the republican challenger is pulling 15 points behind the democratic incumbent senator bob casey. and a more disturbing poll in texas tonight for republicans. shows a statistical tie with ted cruz. on saturday the president will campaign at an ohio congressional district that he won by 11 points and there will be a special election there on tuesday. the democrat, danny o connor, is in a statistical tie with the republican in that race. a democrat has not held that seat since 1980. joining our discussion now mike murphy and jonathan alter. both are msnbc political analysts. mike, these numbers look like problems for republicans. what do you see when you look at them? yeah. it s kind of winter is coming, i fear. this was an interesting trip to pennsylvania. these rallies are mostly about the president wanting love and adoration of crowds. he went there because there is a lot of history for trump. the congressman from that area who is running for senate is behind double digits but running is an early trump supporter. and to the president s credit, that is a county where he massively overperformed. it is a place where he really spiked up. lou wants to win that senate race. he better get out of his own district, which is only maybe 80,000 voters out of the 2.5 million statewide and get to the philadelphia suburbs where the action is. the problem is he can t take trump there because trump can t get arrested. this was no political master stroke today. it was just the president doing his routine to an adoring crowd of republican primary voters. i m sure it made him feel good. i don t think it moved the need sgll a tie? i tie in the senate race in texas with ted cruz as of tonight? it s unbelievable. i mean, if the democrats knock off ted cruz this year, they will be dancing in the streets. it is not clear it is going to happen. texas has been a strongly republican state for a long time. cruz is, you know, pretty effective at the cut and thrust of politics and he has a lot at his disposal, including a lot of money to try to take him down. but this is the kind of thing that indicates there could be a true blue tsunami that goes beyond re-taking the house and goes down to the state legislators and is a transformative election. i don t think we re there yet. i think democrats have this habit of kind of going on miller time, you know, going, okay, we got this in the bag. you know. all the signs, mike murphy is telling us on tv winter is coming. we don t have to dig deep in our pockets. we don t have to work that hard because this thing is done. and i think that would really be to misunderstand the history of elections and misunderstand recent elections where democrats have not turned out in midterms. that s the recent history. they don t show up. so unless that trend is changed, it s not at all clear that the democrats will do as well as expected in november. let s take a look at the president attacking the news media tonight in pennsylvania. it is a very familiar bit that we have seen at all of these rallies. let s take a peak at tonight s version. but they can make anything bad because they are the fake, fake, disgusting news. to which mike murphy tweeted today in anticipation of that very moment, my advice to media re: out of control trump driven krout hostility at his rallies, boycott them. send in an ap pool reporter and ap pool photo. nothing more. take away his oxygen for a while. mike, it makes a lot of sense. if there is a tv camera there, we will all have access to anything he says that might be news worthy or worth putting on the air. there is not a thing he said tonight in that rally that has made it into this show in any serious way. yeah. if he is going to act the way he acts, and i d say this about any politician of any party and not make any news. he is the president. you got to cover him. but you don t got to cover him like it s the d-day invasion. there is no need to cover it for anything other than the pool. and trump walks into these rallies and he looks in the back and he counts how many sticks and cameras there are. if he says he won, he will know the calculus is turning. this is a decision point for the media to decide if they are complicit in this because they like the box office of having their talent arguing with trump and all this back and forth. i don t see it. cover it with a pool reporter. i don t think there is any need to put on the show now that frankly the president uses to reinforce his base supporters where the media is very unpopular. it is good box office for trump. the question is is the media more interested in that or the journalistic side of this. veteran of the campaign trail that has stood at more rallies as a reporter than any of us can count. is there any value to sending reporters into that room? no. at this point, i think mike is absolutely right. and i think we actually could go further than that. traditionally reporters are really competitive with each other. yeah. but as eleanor roosevelt said during world war ii, this is no ordinary time, right? and i think reporters have so sort of work together now more and they do that when there is a pool situation. they have to do what mike is suggesting. and if the president crosses a line in attacking somebody personally and he s done this, they have to think about whether they want to haul out of the press room and walk out. there is nothing stopping them from doing that. there is no news organization, no employer of any of the news reporters at those events who can guarantee the safety of their personnel at those events. that s right. that s a real concern. somebody is going to get hurt. you got his agreement on this, to my surprise. i thought jonathan was going to stick with his he s a friend of mine, but i m going to have a nightmare tonight. thank you both for joining us tonight. really appreciate it. thanks, lawrence. when we come back, ivanka trump said that she disagrees with her father s policy of separating children from their parents at the southern border. but ivanka trump did not say why she has done absolutely nothing about it. is this at&t innovations? yeah, wow..this must be for one of our new unlimited wireless plans. it comes with a ton of entertainment options. great, can you sign for this? yeah. hey, uh.. what s in that one? that s a shark. new and only with at&t, you can get unlimited data, 30+ channels of live tv, and your choice of things like hbo or pandora premium. more for your thing. that s our thing. visit att dot com. (vo) ovewhelming air fresheners can send you running. so try febreze one. with no aerosols and no heavy perfumes. so you can spray and stay. febreze one. crisp leaves of lettuce. freshly made dressing. clean food that looks this good. delivered to your desk. now delivering to home or office. panera. food as it should be. she did that by saying two things that no one else in the white house would dare to say. on the same day that the white house press secretary disgracefully ran around in angry verbal circles, refusing to say that the news media is not the enemy of the people. ivanka trump said this. no, i do not feel that the media is the enemy of the people. looks easy when ivanka trump does it. but the white house press secretary wouldn t dare say anything like that today. she wouldn t dare disagree with the president who says that the news media is the enemy of the people. ivanka trump also said this today. i am very vehemently against family separation. and the separation of parents and children. very vehemently. not vehemently enough to resign from her job working for a president who would do such a thing. not vehemently enough to actually go to the southern border when her father was ripping those children away from their parents and witness it all up close and report back to him on what his cruelty actually looks like. not vehemently enough to visit the children in their cages in texas. not vehemently enough to try to find the infant babies when no one knew where they were, infant babies in her father s custody. she didn t feel it vehemently enough to go down there and see how the girls were being treated to make sure that the boys and the girls were safe from abuse. she did not feel vehemently enough about it to sit in a federal courtroom in texas and watch an immigration judge treat spanish speaking three-year-olds with no lawyers as adults and bring her eye witness experience of that legal atrocity back to her father to get him to stop his unspeakable cruelty to those children. ivanka trump was not so vehemently opposed to children being ripped out of the arms of their mothers that she actually did anything about it. ivanka trump added this personal note today. i am a daughter of an immigrant. my mother grew up in communist czech republic. but we are a country of laws. so, you know, she came to this country legally. and what if she didn t? what if ivanka trump s mother, donald trump s first wife violated immigration laws of multiple countries on her way to becoming the first mrs. trump and the mother of a daughter who feels so vehemently opposed to ripping children out of their mother s arms at the border that he did nothing about it? immigration reporter noticed that comment this morning by ivanka trump and raised a series of important questions about her mother s manipulation and violation of immigration law to get into the united states. and it is an easy story to tell because the first mrs. trump told the story herself in her book that she published just last year. he posted the pages of ivanka trump s book in which she explains that when she was 22, she married an austrian skier just to get an austrian passport. and in her book, she said the marriage wouldn t be real. it was only for me to get the necessary papers. that is a classic fraudulent marriage according to immigration law, but that marriage got ivanka trump s mother an austrian passport. she used that austrian passport to travel to canada where she lived before finally moving to the united states to mary donald trump. while she was still living in montreal, she made the two-hour drive to vermont because she liked the snow there so much. the snow is dry there. the powder was so light, i could ski circles around the americans. in no time, i became a ski instructor and taught kids how to race. in other words, in no time ivanka trump s mother became the kind of criminal that ice enforcement agents are rounding up and deporting. she was illegally working as a ski instructor in the united states while living in montreal onassport. what the first mrs. trump did to make it to the united states was completely understandable. the fake marriage, the works. he put it this way after telling the ivanna trump story on twitter today. people do what they can to get to the u.s. they fake marriages, cross borders, get by on unauthorized labor. have children that are called anchor babies. was ivanka trump an anchor baby? were her brothers anchor babies? their mother was not a citizen of the united states when they were born. the first mrs. trump did not become a citizen until 11 years after her marriage to donald trump. ivanka trump s mother told her story about getting into the united states in a book written last year with her daughter working in a white house that was trying to deport people like her mother when her mother was working at a ski resort in vermont. and the first mrs. trump told that story innocently and openly just last year because she trusted that we would all understand and accept everything that she did, including every violation of law from austrian law to canadian law to american law to find a better life for herself in this country. and that is a truly american story. it was then. and it still is now. ivanka trump owes her very existence to her mother s dream for a better life in america. and now ivanka trump and her father are trying to crush that dream for anyone who comes to this country the way ivanka trump s mother did. fact is, every insurance company hopes you drive safely. but allstate actually helps you drive safely. with drivewise. it lets you know when you go too fast. .and brake too hard. with feedback to help you drive safer. giving you the power to actually lower your cost. unfortunately, it can t do anything about that. now that you know the truth. are you in good hands? dinner date.meeting his parents dinner date. why did i want a crest 3d white smile? so i used crest. 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being dad. visit enbrel.com and use the joint damage simulator to see how your joint damage could be progressing. ask about enbrel. enbrel. fda approved for over 15 years. that i saw did,s s as described have schools and but you would send your child to these centers? i i yes? no? that is a difficult question to answer. joining our discussion now, jonathan ryan, executive director for the refugee and immigrant center in texas. and jonathan, as you know, the congressman wrote a letter to ivanka trump today after she made her public comments inviting her to come to the border, to come down there where you have been and to see first-hand what s happening there. if ivanka trump did go to the southern border now and if she did go to the federal courthouse and watch these hearings, and if she did meet the children who were being held in those cages still, there are still children in her father s custody, what would she be able to go back to the white house and tell her father. if ivanka trump as a mother and human being was truly vehemently opposed to these policies, she would be doing something about it. she would be resigning. she is an advisor in one of the most powerful policy offices in the entire world. if you are in my office or in that white house, if you are part of that advisory team and you truly are at a breaking point with the policy, if you are truly uncomfortable with the policy, the right thing to do is to resign. i think ivanka also needs to check her privilege because my heart obviously like everyone else s a breaking for her reaching a low point over this summer. this has been a low point for our entire country. this has been the lowest point in the lives of thousands of children who were separated as we now know on purpose by this government, by this administration who targeted families for this cruel and t torturous treatment. this is going on today. i m reporting from the border from south texas, which this issue rages forwards. there are hundreds of fathers at the detention center right now who were separated from their children, held for a long period of time, months without them, and who have now been joined with their children in an internment camp run by a private prison company. they have been on hunger strike, hundreds of them, with their children because they have reached that point of december p december prthere appears toe or reason as to why some were released and many, many more are currently still being held in indefinite detention. if she were to visit the border, which i doubt she will do. she will see it is no different than it was weeks ago when our entire country was captivated by these injuries. we see it every day in our daily work. i don t know if she s ready to see it. she has prime agency in this policy. you know, she actually in the same peer viinterview today sai enjoyed getting out and traveling, going to trump rallies and trump speeches because those are the only examples she gave in this. so this white house adviser who loves getting out of the white house and has apparently very strong feelings according to her about this policy shows no interest in traveling down to where you are and actually studying the effects of the policy. no interest in traveling here. i m sure like she had no interest in going to charlottesville and speaking with the victims of the terrorists that her father s at min stra administration sided with, who were attacked. we fight every day for a world where immigrants rights are respekr respected and treated with dignity and equality. what we are seeing here is, frankly, in my opinion, more dangerous and more insidious to have an administration that is in some way being treated like a royal family where you have got one member whose lashing out and the other who is somehow trying to button up the loose ends and act as though she is on the good side of history. she s not. thank you for joining us once again from texas tonight. really appreciate it. donald trump made a mistake apparently not listening to mitch mcconnell about the difficulty the brett kavanaugh paperwork would create in the confirmation process. that s next. your society was led by a woman, who governed thousands. .commanded armies. .yielded to no one. when i found you in my dna, i learned where my strength comes from. my name is courtney mckinney, and this is my ancestrydna story. now with 2 times more geographic detail than other dna tests. order your kit at ancestrydna.com. prosecutor hit another stumbling block today. turns out mitch mcconnell was right in advising president trump not to nominate brett kavanaugh, warning his massive paper trail would take a long time. the grassley request is a tiny percentage of the materials the archives has involving brett kavanaugh. today, senator grassley said the confirmation hearing would go forward in september even if the archives has not produced the materials that senator grassley said the committee needed. the george w. bush presidential library is turning over some documents involving brett kavanaugh. but those documents are being screened by attorneys for the bush presidential library including one who has represented steve bannon, reince priebus and don mcgahn in russia-related investigations. joyce vance is back with us. turns out this paper trail is enormous and is not going to be in place, apparently, if time for confirmation hearing. it is enormous. and the problem with that is we re now looking at a process where instead of using the archivist, a nonpartisan process that was really created in response to excesses during the nixon white house to screen documents, we have a process where lawyers who represent president bush in his personal capacity will make decisions about what gets turned over to the senate for review. it seems to be designed by republicans to deny the senate and the american public the information needed for this incredibly important confirmation. what s so strange, the chairman of the committee requested the information, said the committee needs it. the archives says we re not going to have it in time for your scheduled hearing and the chairman of the committee says, okay, never mind, we ll do it without it. it s an artificial deadline. and obviously they want the result, they want to get the justice confirmed as opposed to ensuring the integrity of the process. a really good comparison is justin kagan who had worked inside of the white house and they turned over papers both from her time in the counsel s office and her work on the domestic policy council. but now we ll have for judge kavanaugh a process where only his work in the white house counc counsel s office, not three years as the white house staff secretary, a job he said was tremendously important in determining his judicial outlook. so this results-oriented process will really deprive much of the senate the paperwork it will be reviewing. joyce van ychce, thanks veryh for joining us 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Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with in-depth reporting and investigations. do it. as you said, he defended his summit with putin in helsinki and said the russians are unhappy he s the president of the united states when vladamir putin admitted at the summit he wanted donald trump to win. there s this huge disconnect. we could all feel it in the briefing room earlier today and why you saw so many reporters asking that question. yes, i m sure it was very assuring to a lot of americans out there to hear the director of national intelligence, fbi director, of homeland security to say they re on the case. looming over everything in the room is the fact the president has said all sorts of things to diminish the russian threat in the past. he just said it could be other countries, not just russia. that s so opposite what we heard from his top officials at that briefing. and it was just yesterday sarah palin called the investigation into russia a hoax, wasn t it? that s right. she echoed what the president saw these things how they re going to try to stop russia meddling in the 2018 mid-terms. you heard the fbi director and homeland security secretary all saying there are these new initiatives and task forces aimed at stopping cyber attacks on our democracy. what was missing in all of this was to have the president of the united states, to have an anonymous official to say the president sent them out there. i don t think that s good enough. when the president had this opportunity this evening to say, i did this, i sent these officials out there, we will stop this. he didn t do it. another opportunity missed? thanks. joining us now, max boot and cnn legal and security analyst and phil, former senior official at the fbi and cia. it is interesting this disconnect that took placey the president reit place, the president reiterated in his speech and his officials were so clear in the russia involvement. i think the fact the president continues to acknowledge this is exactly why the intel chiefs had to do this. when you have a threat from a foreign adversary, attack, you need the united states to speaker with one voice and that voice usually comes from the president of the united states, to say, twhois we are, this is what our values are. this is important when there is misinformation, part of the attack is a misinformation campaign. the president, consciously or not, is actually doing putin s work for him. he is echoing and amplifying divisive messages putin is hoping to sew and delegitimizing rhetoric. port of that is to make this public statement. phil, you worked for the cia and fbi in your long career. does it really matter whether or not the president is echoing what the national security apparatus is saying as long as you have chris wray, dni coats, nielsen, all pointing at russia, saying we re aware of this, working on this, doing everything we can to make sure the sanctity of the voting process remains. time-out, anderson. 95% of the americans couldn t name one of the people who spoke today. can t name the national security advisor and can t name the cabinet members. they can name the president of the united states and he has at least two major responsibilities here well beyond the intel that people like me who used to be on the inside would ask him to do. number one, what is the message to vladamir putin after we see this happening only a week after helsinki, the president told vladamir putin why don t you visit the white house. i can tell you the consequences on vladamir putin are nothing. if the russians continue to this, the answer to trump is, sure, i ll go visit the white house and we don t have to talk about it. one more significant thing, the domestic thing the president has to send, you live in new york, anderson, time and time again they say the new york police department and fbi have secret work to do. if you see something say something. the governor and mayor had a message to the people. and the facebook intervention they talked about this week, what has the president said to the american people and who is the messenger to the american people. i don t see one, anderson. next, if this were so important, should the president have been there or echoed this at least tonight saying, i totally glacier with what my intelligence chief said opposed to saying, talking about a hoax? of course, anderson but it is clear the president does not agree with what the intelligence chiefs are saying. you saw the clip a few moments ago he called this a hoax and they are saying this is a major danger to the united states. one of the most revealing lines is when john bolton said, the president has made very clear what his priorities are. by that, i think bolton meant he has a priority focusing on russia. in fact, the president has made very clear his priority is not to focus on the russian threat, he only views this through his political self-interest. he doesn t care about getting to the root of the russian interference in the 2016 election or in the future, all he cares about is saving his own political skin, which is why he and other senior officials have now taken to referring to the mueller probe as a rigged witch hunt delegitimizing the investigation and essentially doing vladamir putin s work for him. i talked to michael hayden and director clapper, all saying having the president be the one on top of all his national security apparatus directing all of their efforts. we heard from each of these people individually. chris wray testified in congress what the fbi is doing to try to counter-russia in the upcoming election and dni coats and others express concerns. people who worked in intelligence agencies and the fbi all say it is critical for the president to be the one setting the agenda and giving it all a sense of urgency and coordination. do you agree with that? absolutely. one of the things after 9/11, in light of the 9/11 commission s recommendations was to break down barriers in terms of sharing intelligence, create the office of the director of national intelligence in order to bring all these different perspectives these agencies have so that good policy can be made. that is made at the top by the president of the united states. many things, covert actions abroad, have to be authorized by him in writing with a finding it s important to national security. so, in many ways, these agencies cannot act effectively without him getting on board and without him creating a coordinated strategy and tell them exactly what he wants them to do. did it jump out to you that he s not fully wear what happened at the summit or talk about it? not understanding or having been reliably been briefed by the president exactly what he said to vladamir putin, i find that surprising. it is. let me make this real to you. if there is a conversation between the president and putin about election interference and putin makes specific representations about what he will or will not do. let s take it further, say there s a conversation about syria and russian engagement in syria and putin makes representations to the president. who will verify what putin says to the president? the director of the national intelligence. the dni coming out of helsinki should be saying, putin said this, mr. president and this is what putin said after speaking about russian interference. instead, what he told us, you just reported to us he doesn t know what happened. i have spoken quite a bit about what happened in helsinki, what do you think about what dni coats said? it s deeply disturbing. this is a president accused very credibly of colluding with russia in 2016. evidence is piling up including the recent cnn report michael cohen is prepared to testify donald trump knew in advance about the meeting between the russians and the trump campaign. you have a president suspected of working with russia to affect american democracy. the same president is in an off the record meeting with the russian president where nobody including the national security knows what happened. this is not diplomacy as usual, very unusual and disturbing and worrisome given the unique vulnerability of donald trump to russian pressure. thanks very much. next, the revelation of manafort s trial, not how little money he had but how little he had when he went to work for donald trump, riches to rags tail. and info on butina and her trade craft and how russian intelligence operates in the u.s. today. back pain can t win. now introducing aleve back and muscle pain. only aleve targets tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. aleve back & muscle. all day strong. all day long. my mom washes the dishes. .before she puts them in the dishwasher. so what does the dishwasher do? 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that s something the judge brought up. they want to bring in evidence manafort was ever audited by the irs. the judge said, if you want that evidence or testimony to come in, it would be much better if paul manafort testifies, the next big question. appreciate it. still breaking news what that russian woman arrested for conspiracy and acting as a russian agent, forever she acted as charged and some info on her skillset with politician, a hint, she wasn t exactly subtle. what are you learning? she wasn t exactly subtle. she is innocent until proven guilty but an alleged russian spy. she didn t use the kind of spy technology we would expect, communicating on twitter and what s-up, with those her own age and older men. she was so flirtatious, men walked away wondering what her ulterior motive was, what she wanted from them. this gives you the various ways moscow runs its influence operation, that s what experts said when i asked about her spy tactics. look, vladamir putin has a number of seasoned operatives he can plant in the u.s. to run operations for him. he also will tap people like maria butina through other people he knows to gain information and access in the u.s. that s what prosecutors say is going on in this case, anderson. did she talk about ties to russian intelligence at any point? she did. this is one of the allegations her. he hasn t fully made these arguments in court but she s back in september and we will hear more in the courtroom. more breaking news who robert mueller wants to talk to now in his investigation, a name that goes back to the russians in the campaign and you might be surprised to it. and news whether the president really wants to sit down with special counsel or not. could there be a method behind the choice legal experts call not a great idea. the legal team weighs in when 360 continues. so what do you guys want? pistachio. chocolate chip. rocky road. i see what s going on here. everybody s got different taste. well, now verizon lets you mix and match your family unlimited plans so everybody gets the plan they want, without paying for things they don t. jet-setting moms can video-chat from europe. movie-obsessed teens can stream obscure cinema. it s like everyone gets their own flavor of unlimited. 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(vo) one family. different unlimited plans. starting at $40 per line. switch now and get $300 off our best phones all on the network you deserve. two views why that may be and how that may play out by jeffrey toobin and biographer, michael d antoni. do you think the president wants to sit down or part of a strategy? it s probably both. donald trump is nothing if not self-confident. he s testified a lot and given a lot of depositions in civil cases. he s mostly done better than badly in those cases. everybody focuses on the tim o brien case in the new york times but actually done well. he s never been charged with perjury in what he said in those depositions. he has done well. most of those cases have wound upsetting rather than going to a resolution. i think he s confident in handling a deposition. i think it s part of his brand not to be afraid of anything. i think he wants to be perceived as someone who has nothing to hide and will testify. i think there is really, at least a measure of candor in what he s saying that he does want to testify. this seems to be how donald trump has approached a lot of situations in his life believing he can if he talks to somebody he can convince them. he can be very charming when he wants to be. is that something he s had all his life? it absolutely is a quality he s exhibited all of his life. i only found really one example of an interview where he just couldn t bring anybody around, and it was one of the early ones he did with time magazine. he bumped into a reporter who actually reminded me temperamentally what people say about robert mueller. he was a pretty upstanding straight ahead guy and trump just couldn t win him over. for the most part, he is able to win people over. he gets them relaxed and charms them and i think he even surprises them when he s not super aggressive. he could attempt that. as mentioned he has experience testifying in depositions. he even images himself as a lawyer himself he has spent so much time with attorneys he feels expert. if there is an interview with mueller, there s not going to be a judge there. he can filibuster. you ve interviewed the then candidate trump, he talks and talks and that could eat up practically the whole interview. i think he knows that. just a prosecutor sitting there is not going to be able to say to him, stop talking. he is in many respects going to be able to control what happens if there is an interview. again, that doesn t mean it s necessarily a good idea for him. he has a lot of tools at his disposal. i spoke to alan dershowitz last night, saying he always tries to get clients not to do an interview in this situation, it s a perjury trap waiting to happen. if you re not lying, how is it a perjury trap? a perjury trap has always been a meaningless expression to me. if you tell the truth, you re not going to be perjured? dershowitz says if there s somebody else who believes they re telling the truth, a different version of events what the president is saying prosecutors can go with that person s version. > have too much respect for mueller that they would simply bring some sort of action. remember, there s not going to be a criminal prosecution out of here. all that s going to come out of this is some sort of report. the mere fact that two people have different recollections of an event does not create an approximate perjury trap. that create a perjury trap. that happens all the time. the fact that there s a legal trap is a bogus argument. according to the times, if the president sits down with them he can convince them their own inquiry is a witch hunt and obviously shows confidence in his own ability to sway people. of course, he s ever consecutive. i think in this case the stakes are much higher than the stakes he s faced in any litigation prior. there is that factor to consider. believe it or not he does imagine himself to be the actual president of the united states. he doesn t act like it a lot. he does, i think, have in mind his legacy. that could move him to resist ultimately cooperating as much as robert mueller would have him cooperate. he s going to be more careful than usual, uncharacteristically careful, i think. remember, too, what i think he s really trying to convince is the public, not so much the mueller people. he s been pretty effective. look how republicans have shifted over the course of the mueller investigation. his people have come around on mueller to feeling it s a witch hunt. i don t think he really believes he will convince mueller he s engaged in a witch hunt, i do think he believes at least his supporters will feel that way if they don t already. lastly, i want to ask you about the reporting that the mueller team is seeking to interview this russian pop star behind the introductions setting up the trump tower meeting. how likely is that it that would actually happen? why would some russian citizen do that? the pop star who is the person that engineered the infamous tower meeting. he spends a lot of time in the united states and grew up in new jersey. he s english. he will not get within a mile of this. his father, who financed the miss universe in moscow in 2013, he will stay farther away. i m not surprised the mueller team is trying to get to them but i wouldn t hold their breath. as we mentioned, president trump is on the campaign trail again, on the rally with a crowd where people who believe in conspiracy theories, call themselves q anon. we ll hear what they have to say. you wouldn t accept an incomplete job from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase sensimist relieves all your worst symptoms, including nasal congestion, which most pills don t. and all from a gentle mist you can barely feel. flonase sensimist. streaming out. many people arriving early this morning waiting in line. we wanted to see if the people who followed this movement wanted to talk to us. we found they did want to talk to us. what they told us was quite interesting. waiting in line in a driving rain, very motivated trump supporters, wanting to see the president in person in wilkes-barry, pennsylvania. we are q. reporter: some of those people wearing and holding the 17th letter of the alphabet. reporter: you re holding a red, white and blue q. why do you have it? it s shift. reporter: you are wearing a shirt that says it means where we go one we go all. q anon is the people that believe in what trump s trying to do to change our country. reporter: that is a generalization. more specifically what q anon is, is a fringe movement in which many baseless conspiracy theories are discussed on the internet, organized on the idea of anonymous but well-connected persons nicknamed q. your shirt says the storm is here. what does that mean to you? i ve been following the posts since october 28th. reporter: on the internet. the person other persons who say they re q. right. what is q? an entity of 10 or less people that have a problem with the government? have high security clearance. reporter: how do you know that? i m telling you this is what i appears to be. appears to be. this is what you re guessing. you don t have proof there isn t. we ve all been gathering online talking as americans and uniting. reporter: do you think it makes you comfortable talking with other frustrated people? yes. reporter: maybe there s no evidence of it. stuff talked about it on the internet. there hasn t been non-evidence yet? reporter: and a major this is press is the enemy. you don t believe in the first amendment? i do. you guys are weaponized. reporter: what is that? i don t know anybody in the cia except a couple people over the years. what does it mean? conspiracy theorists. reporter: do you think i m weaponized by the cia? maybe not to your knowledge. that s unfortunate. reporter: you believe there is a deep state? yes. reporter: what do you think that deep state is doing? running this country? i think they were and petrified now because they re losing control. reporter: donald trump is the president. he s running the country, right? yeah. he s having to fight against them. reporter: he said he could do it all himself. you think he s fighting with the deep state a year and a half in his term? i think he was fighting before he was elected. reporter: who is in the deep state? the clinton and bushes and obamas. reporter: you think the clintons and bushes and obamas are running this country standing in the rain? no. trying. reporter: the anonymous q is a hero to many, one man hoping to believe in q looking straight into our camera. is it possible you re believing in bo dus information? let s see, q, let s see. did you get large numbers of people lining up at the rally support the q? what sort of numbers did you see? reporter: i don t think there were large numbers, anderson. a lot of people we talked to had no idea what it was. other people wanted to see donald trump and other people wanted to see the president of the united states with their children. it seems like a relatively small number. i will tell you it s catching on and i would anticipate at future rallies we will see more people holding big qs and clothes with ks qs on them. do they think the president supports q anon. reporter: sarah sanders was asked about it and did not give any indication at all the president supports it. each and every person i talked to who follows this does believe donald trump is a supportereen though he hasn t said so. appreciate you being there. joining me now is will summer, reporter for the daily beast writing for q non gate into this giant conspiracy theory. i understand that some people believe that the president has given smthem secret signs like e way he holds his hand or puts some fingers together, he s forming the letter q during speeches. is that right? yeah. they re obsessed with, as we saw in the video, getting some sort of validation from trump that q is real. so they ll look at videos and say maybe he s moving his hand in a way that s like a q, or if he mentions the number 17, which of course q is the 17th letter in the alphabet, they see that as a sign. they ve been asking a lot of white house reporters to ask trump about q. it doesn t seem like anyone has taken them up on their offers, but they seem to feel that if trump was asked about it, they re convinced he would say, oh, yeah, it s all real. does anyone seem to know who the person q actually is or if it is one person or if it s groups of people? q s identity right now is very mysterious. whether it s one person, a group of people, you know, maybe a foreign operative. you know, there s a lot of theories going around but really nothing that i think is worth considering. you know, i think perhaps it s maybe just a troll or a couple trolls in a basement somewhere and this whole thing has gotten out of hand. can you just explain again the core belief because the whole international pedophile ring linked with the deep state and robert mueller is actually working with president trump. i mean it s all, you know, outlandish. yeah, it s very confusing. i mean sort of the and it s constantly growing. something will happen in the news and they ll claim, oh, the deep state tried to shoot down air force one. sort of the gist of it is that trump has teamed up with the military and sort of various virtuous world leaders, including vladimir putin and kim jong-un to take on this global cabal of democrats and hollywood elites and bankers and all this kind of stuff, who they claim are essentially responsible for all the evil in the world and soon trump will have all these people arrested. william sommer, i appreciate your reporting. fascinating stuff. i want to check in with chris to see what he s working on for cuomo prime time at the top of the hour. like every other fringe group, they can believe whatever they want. it s what they do in the name of those beliefs that raises concern just like fringe groups on the left and others on the right. that was a good interview to have. we re going to be taking on the news tonight from a legal and a political perspective. we ve got governor kasich on the show. we ve got former a.g. mukasey on the show. we re going to be testing out different theories of what s going on with the russia probe and what needs to happen in the next set of elections. then we re going to take a look at what the pope said about the death penalty and what it means to be pro-life and how a lot of people who may think they re pro-life may not meet the standard according to the pope. interesting. about 8 1/2 minutes from now. up next, the search is on for this man who police say shot and killed a famed cardiologist according to investigators, he held a grudge against the doctor, carried out a brazen execution on a bicycle in broad daylight. the police are looking for information about this person. more details ahead in a moment. it comes with a ton of entertainment options. great, can you sign for this? 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(vo) ask your health care provider about tresiba®. covered by most commercial health insurance and medicare part d plans. you shouldn t be rushed into booking a hotel. with expedia s add-on advantage, booking a flight unlocks discounts on select hotels until the day you leave for your trip. add-on advantage. only when you book with expedia. there s a manhunt in houston, texas, tonight. police are looking for a man accused of killing a renowned cardiologist who once performed surgery on george h.w. bush. the doctor was gunned down on his way to work at a hospital. he and the gunman were both riding bicycles. when their paths crossed, the gunman opened fire. with more on the manhunt and the crime, here s cnn s ed lafen dara. reporter: houston investigators say as soon as joseph pappas suspected that investigators were closing in on him, he jumped on his ten-speed sha win bicycle, peddled away from his neighborhood, and disaer pad. police chief art acevedo says there s a sense of urgency to capture the 62-year-old murder suspect. he s in great shape. he s a great marksman, and he s a great danger. so let s hope that somebody knows where he s at and calls us. reporter: investigators believe pappas motive for killing dr. mark hausknecht was a grudge he s held for more than 20 years. that s when the suspect s mother died during surgery while being operated on by hausknecht. on the morning of july 20th, dr. hausknecht was riding his bicycle down this sidewalk. his wife said investigators told her that the gunman emerged from this scaffolding head-on and fired at him three times. it was a brazen attack. it occurred at the height of morning rush hour on this busy street. perhaps the gunfire was muzzled by the sounds coming from this construction site. but police say it was a well thought out and planned attack. so much so that it allowed the gunman to ride away on his own bicycle this way as if nothing had happened. chief acevedo tells cnn evidence found inside pappas home shows the murder was painstakingly planned. this man was actually studying this doctor, studying what he was doing for a while, and it took great planning and ultimately great skill to do what he did. and i m just thankful that we now know who he is and now with the help of the public and our great investigators, we ll find him. one way or the other, we re going to find him. reporter: joseph pappas spent 30 years working in law enforcement as a constable in houston. he started a real estate business several years ago. that s where he paid our bill. reporter: joe donaldson owns a legal courier business and he says he spoke to joseph pappas just before the murder. pappas hired donaldson to file legal documents in a houston courthouse. the documents transferred the deed for his houston home to a woman in ohio. donaldson says after leaving, pappas called him multiple times that morning to make sure the documents were filed. he was very nervous. he opened the door to a crack looking out. then he opened it a little more. then he opened it fully and was looking up and down the street, seeing if anyone else was there. reporter: for days joseph pappas stayed around his houston home. one neighborhood even says he was seen mowing his lawn this past sunday morning before disappearing when police first checked on his home on tuesday night. ed joins us now from houston. what are investigators worried about given his law enforcement background? reporter: multiple things. he might try to, you know, carry out a similar attack or want to you know, he s very skilled at being able to handle the firearm, that sort of thing. but one of the other concerns is he might somehow still have access to police radio scanners and be able to monitor the manhunt for him. the police chief here in houston tells me that that is one thing they are concerned about and that they re looking into it and how they handle the search for him. and they re assuming he s still armed and dangerous? reporter: yeah, absolutely. the police chief says that, you know, no reason to believe he isn t armed and dangerous at this point given what he s already done. the other thing is that they have talked to somebody close to