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let's go back now to the row over christmas parties in downing street to look at how it all started — with a scoop in a newspaper. the daily mirror's political editor broke the news that one gathering was attended by the prime minister — and that aides held a second party — both at a time when coronavirus regulations were in place. last year, pippa crerrar had another major scoop about borisjohnson's then top aide dominic cummings and his controversial trip to barnard castle. it was a tvjournalist — paul brand from itv news — who made the christmas parties story even bigger news — with his own major exclusive — obtaining the video, showing downing street staffjoking about a party that would be breaking the rules. the work of these two reporters has put huge pressure on the prime minister — and the video led to an apology in parliament. for the media show on radio 4 this week, i've been speaking to them both — starting with asking pippa how she got the story.
used _ in mind all the way through. we are used to— in mind all the way through. we are used to operating an immediate environment. often the sources we are speaking to have no experience whatsoever of the media, until the point _ whatsoever of the media, until the point at _ whatsoever of the media, until the point at which they are thrust into that spotlight, and that to some degree — that spotlight, and that to some degree was the case with our source for our— degree was the case with our source for our story— degree was the case with our source for our story yesterday, so we absolutely have a duty of care to them, _ absolutely have a duty of care to them, to — absolutely have a duty of care to them, to make sure they are ok, that they are _ them, to make sure they are ok, that they are dealing with that pressure 0k. they are dealing with that pressure ok. because they are anxious, like any source — ok. because they are anxious, like any source would be, about being found _ any source would be, about being found out, — any source would be, about being found out, and we have to make sure that we _ found out, and we have to make sure that we kind — found out, and we have to make sure that we kind of hold their hand through— that we kind of hold their hand through that, really.— that we kind of hold their hand through that, really. thank you very much to pippa _ through that, really. thank you very much to pippa and _ through that, really. thank you very much to pippa and to _ through that, really. thank you very much to pippa and to paul. - through that, really. thank you very much to pippa and to paul. if - through that, really. thank you very much to pippa and to paul. if you i much to pippa and to paul. if you would like to see that clip or share it with anyone you can find it on my twitter account right now. stay with us on outside source — still to come... as germany and other countries pass penalties for people refusing refusing a covid vaccine, we look at the rights and wrongs of mandatory vaccination. new zealand is proposing some of the toughest anti—smoking laws in the world, to try to stamp out the habit. under the plans, anyone born after 2008 will never legally be
the number ten briefing. i had all the number ten briefing. i had all the information i needed but i still needed to sit in front of my keyboard and bash it out, then i did that very quickly earlier in the day, then of course lawyers wanted to have a look, and uses wanted to have a look and the people that put the blame together, the online team, everyone was discussing headlines, it's a bit of an operation. 50 everyone was discussing headlines, it's a bit of an operation.— it's a bit of an operation. so that our it's a bit of an operation. so that your experience, _ it's a bit of an operation. so that your experience, we _ it's a bit of an operation. so that your experience, we will - it's a bit of an operation. so that your experience, we will come i it's a bit of an operation. so that i your experience, we will come back to it. paul, let's bring you in. when did you hear about this video? so we had about this video some time a-o so we had about this video some time ago and _ so we had about this video sometime ago and it's— so we had about this video some time ago and it's actually really interesting listening to pippa explaining her story because i had a similar— explaining her story because i had a similar experience actually, that we were aware — similar experience actually, that we were aware of this video some time a-o, were aware of this video some time ago. but _ were aware of this video some time ago, but actually sometimes it takes the work_ ago, but actually sometimes it takes the work of— ago, but actually sometimes it takes the work of one journalist to help another— the work of one journalist to help anotherjournalist. and we had some realty— anotherjournalist. and we had some really important considerations when we were _ really important considerations when we were looking at this video. i mean. — we were looking at this video. i mean. it— we were looking at this video. i mean, it was filmed ultimately in a private _ mean, it was filmed ultimately in a private setting, so there is a high bar for— private setting, so there is a high bar for publishing that video, it needs— bar for publishing that video, it needs public interest. and on first look needs public interest. and on first took at _ needs public interest. and on first took at the — needs public interest. and on first look at the video, before the context— look at the video, before the context of the past few weeks, that bahoui _ context of the past few weeks, that bahoui didn't feel was met. but when paper—
isjust— earlier, protection of our sources isiust of— earlier, protection of our sources isjust of the earlier, protection of our sources is just of the utmost earlier, protection of our sources isjust of the utmost importance to us, and _ isjust of the utmost importance to us, and that— isjust of the utmost importance to us, and that means notjust protecting the sources identity, but protecting the sources identity, but protecting how material comes into our hands — protecting how material comes into our hands. , . ., protecting how material comes into our hands. , . . , our hands. pippa and paul, i must ask ou, our hands. pippa and paul, i must ask you. when _ our hands. pippa and paul, i must ask you, when you're _ our hands. pippa and paul, i must ask you, when you're in _ our hands. pippa and paul, i must ask you, when you're in the i our hands. pippa and paul, i must| ask you, when you're in the middle of the maelstrom, when the information is out there and it's having an impact, are you talking to the sources who gave you this information? pippa, are you in touch with them, saying look, i told you if you had given me this information it would have this impact? i am if you had given me this information it would have this impact?— it would have this impact? i am in touch with — it would have this impact? i am in touch with sources, _ it would have this impact? i am in touch with sources, but _ it would have this impact? i am in touch with sources, but normallyl it would have this impact? i am in i touch with sources, but normally and certainly in this case it is more of the case of, you know, are you ok, how are you finding all of this? almost like a support i guess. so there is a duty of care? almost like a support i guess. sol there is a duty of care? definitely, absolutely. _ there is a duty of care? definitely, absolutely, and _ there is a duty of care? definitely, absolutely, and that _ there is a duty of care? definitely, absolutely, and that continues. i l there is a duty of care? definitely, l absolutely, and that continues. i am still in touch with some sources from the barnard castle school, that goes on for a very long time. pauli. goes on for a very long time. paul, have ou goes on for a very long time. paul, have you spoken — goes on for a very long time. paul, have you spoken to _ goes on for a very long time. paul, have you spoken to the _ goes on for a very long time. paul, have you spoken to the person i goes on for a very long time. paul, have you spoken to the person who gave you the video? irate have you spoken to the person who gave you the video?— have you spoken to the person who gave you the video? we have done, and i gave you the video? we have done, and i would — gave you the video? we have done, and i would absolutely _ gave you the video? we have done, and i would absolutely repeat i gave you the video? we have done, and i would absolutely repeat what| and i would absolutely repeat what pippa _ and i would absolutely repeat what pippa has— and i would absolutely repeat what pippa hasjust said about duty and i would absolutely repeat what pippa has just said about duty of care and — pippa has just said about duty of care and that some you have to bear in mind _ care and that some you have to bear in mind all— care and that some you have to bear in mind allthe care and that some you have to bear in mind all the way through. we are