handled differently than the other bills, so you might be able to separate that a little bit, but you can't separate the rest like you talked about. there are questions about the technical ability, about the legal authority, and then about simply what do they want to do. do you really not want to pay a social security payment so you can pay interest to the chinese? >> and the whole thing is while all you're doing is empowering the executive in the supreme way at the same time you're accusing barack obama of being a tyrant, saying he's picking and choosing political targets to impose the most pain in the political shutdown, you're also saying i hand over to the executive, the white house, the president and the treasury the ability to choose who gets paid and who doesn't. >> that's true, and there's also another important point, which is you can default by means other than simply not paying your interest. in other words, if you don't pay your interest on your home mortgage, yes, you're in default, but if you choose to pay that but not pay your utility bill or not pay your saks fifth avenue bill, that's default, too. that could put you in bankruptcy just as surely. so, either way you look at it, the treasury simply doesn't have enough money without borrowing. >> how do we think about the debt line?