watch, of course, is that second one where there is going to be some sort of interaction between the president and the investigators in the russia probe, and everyone right now is just trying to debate the nuances of exactly what that will be. >> and, frank, as i mention in his public utterances, you can hear the president's reluctance, you can hear his doubts. what happens if he tries to say no? >> yeah, there's been a clear shift in tone and it's increasingly becoming apparent that i think he's laying the groundwork for quite a battle, potentially ugly battle with mueller's team over whether this interview occurs at all. i think he's risking be hauled in front of a grand jury. i think his attorneys are having difficulty controlling him. and i'm really -- i'm going to go out on a limb here and say this is going to be an ugly debate with the mueller team over this interview. >> two of our very best. thank you so much for joining us on a thursday night. ashley parker, frank figlusi,