Cant we use them . Thats wow. One of the reasons why he has he just doesnt have Foreign Policy experts around him. Trump asked three times . In an hour briefing, why cant we use Nuclear Weapons . From wondering about the use of Nuclear Weapons to stealing war plans, to reportedly spilling secrets about Nuclear Submarines, donald trump has a long history of problematic behavior with classified intelligence. Well have more on that one reporting. Nuclear, nuclear intelligence, willie. This is, again that and his love of autocrats is a bad mix. Yeah. I mean, we all remember that disturbing time when we said he was ill fit, but, you know, this is a guy that has been reckless with intelligence from the very beginning. I mean, one of his first visitors in the white house, he had the Foreign Minister of russia and the Russian Ambassador to the United States. What did he do . He spilled classified secrets that we got from another country. Had no reporters in there, no u. S. Reporters there, but had, you know, russian probably russian spies posing as reporters inside the white house. Hes just reckless and dangerous, but weve known that for, well, six, seven years. Yeah, we shouldnt lower the bar for reckless, dangerous, outrageous. Its all of those things. As you say, its also completely unsurprising. Him talking about Nuclear Submarines with an australian businessman at maralago fits, because it comes in the postpresident ial time, when we know now he had classified documents hidden in the bathroom and tucked away all around maralago. Also, the patio at maralago strikes again. Remember right after he became president . He was sitting out there with the japanese Prime Minister when north korea launched a test rocket. He was talking openly as the membership sat around about what he heard, what he knew, and huddling with steve bannon and mike flynn on the patio. Outrageous, yes. Surprising, no. Again, these arent things that are, like, ah, dont worry about it. No president this is no president would do this. Other than donald trump. Again, i remain just absolutely ill try to be emotionally level on this fascinated by the fact that its hard. People are still, will you vote for a guy who steals Nuclear Secrets, takes them to his beach club, steals war plans and takes them to his beach club, and now, in this case, talks the specifics about our Nuclear Submarines, and talks about how close we can get to Russian Nuclear i mean, this is the sort of information that russian spies would die to get. And that our spies would risk their lives to get from other countries. Donald trump is just sitting there at maralago blabbing it. Then this guy goes around and tells maybe 20 more people. Oh, yeah. Its a whole other problem. Also ahead on morning joe, republican congressman jim jordan picked up a big endorsement in his bid to become House Speaker, but one prominent republican is warning the party about what could happen if he gets the gavel. Along with joe, willie, and me, on this friday morning, we have the host of way too early, White House Bureau cheer at polipolitico, jonathan le. Editor at politico, sam stein. And emeritus on the council of foreign relations, Richard Haass is with us. We have a lot of reporting on Donald Trumps many different legal cases and the many different ways that he is trying to drag these cases out, but well start with well, and we also have very fascinating polls. Jonathan lemire, i want to go to you really briefly on this. There has been one poll after another poll after another poll this week that have shown that the republicans are just absolutely bashing democrats when it comes to issues. In fact, gallup had a poll a few days ago where they reported the largest gap between republicans and democrats since they started taking these polls. Despite the fact republicans have a massive lead, we always go, like, how could people still go along, and Republicans Go along with donald trump . I mean, a lot of them are, despite the fact democrats are minus 20 on polls about who do you trust to take care of the economy . Both parties are not liked or trusted by 56 , 57 , 58 of the population. And joe biden in the latest poll thats out, among likely voters, beating donald trump by three points. Its amazing, the advantage republicans have two points, that republicans have going into this election on the issues. Yes. Yet, donald trump keepsd wit trump issue. If they had any other candidate, the white house would be alarmed. The Marquette University we showed there, yes, the Top Line Shows Trump and biden. Biden up slightly but within the margin of error. It is a close race, we know that. Look at this republicans over democrats on issues like inflation, the economy, immigration. These are nearly 30 point margins. Yeah, its unbelievable. Huge, huge numbers. Creating jobs. Now, the other way, democrats, as you might expect, trusted more on climate change, abortion policy, health care, medicare, and the like. But elections so often, joe, as you well know, are decided on the economy, and these are big Warning Signs here. Certainly, there has been some other surveys with Swing State Voters, suburban voters, who dislike trump immensely but still really disapprove of how this white house has handled the economy. The white house thinks that can change. They point to underlying metrics to say things are Getting Better and they think the narrative will change next year. Come on, do we really think so . Thats what they think. Im not sure. Not sure it will. Willie, the economists are still saying, hey, we may be headed for a hard landing. Economists are saying Interest Rates may continue to go up right now. The white house, i think theyre starting to realize, they made a really bad mistake with this bidenomics rollout. Reportedly, joe biden was against that, and they went ahead with it anyway. Its not working. You cant convince people the economy is going great when they dont feel like the economy is going great. Even though our economy is going a hell of a lot better than any other countrys . Yeah. The narative isnt working either, why arent you listening to our story, that things are going well . Well, because things in my life cost too much. That was the concern when they went with the bidenomics argument. Okay, there are a lot of good things to talk about in the economy, but you call it bidenomics, you own everything about the economy. Thats what republicans are using. Right. The rebrand hasnt worked at all to this point. Numbers can be what the numbers are, but perception is different. Voters are probably going to cast ballots based on perception. Immigration, another issue there i know joe hammers on a lot here about being a real problem for democrats. Were seeing the poll reflects it. Now, the Biden Administration doing an aboutface on a couple issues, deportation of venezuelan migrants, also construction of Donald Trumps border wall. Some of that is because they have to because of a funding issue, but it is a nod that this is a vulnerability, too. If the republicans have anybody other than donald trump at the top of the ticket, there can be real worries. Even with trump, this can be close, and its Warning Signs for the white house. Listen, all the internal polls ive seen in the swing states are just really tight. Whether youre looking at pennsylvania, wisconsin, or michigan, the internal polls show these candidates close. Not so close in georgia. Trump actually, from the internal polls ive seen, trump is moving ahead in georgia right now. So a long way to go. Were just talking about the problems right now that all sides are facing. That said, because it is such a long time to go, you know, i want to say here, you know, you can talk a year out about who youre going to vote for, who youre not going to vote for, im against the incumbent, but when you get into the voting booth, things change. I still think when people get in the voting booth, itll be hard to check off donald trump, a guy who says he wants, you know, the chairman of the joint chiefs executed, a guy that says he wants to ban tv stations that he doesnt like, a guy that says, you know, the most horrific things, jokes about 82yearold people getting their heads bashed in. But, sam stein, one underlying issues that, again, even a week out from the 2022 races nobody was talk about because it was showing up at 3 , 4 , 5 of the polls, taking womens right to choose away. It proved to be a firestorm. On election day, 35 of voters said that abortion was a huge issue. Things havent gotten better since then. Ron desantis in the state of florida enacted a sixweek ban since the 2022 midterms. He won that huge. Huge landslide. Then did that. And then passed a sixweek ban that has republicans, some of the biggest supporters of republicans financially, saying, thats way too radical. We cant go along with that. There are so many crosscurrents right now. You usually say, its the economy, stupid, but because of donald trump and some really extreme policies, you know, like in michigan, swing state, an 1849 ban, abortion ban. I mean, its leveling the Playing Field for democrats, when democrats should be down ten points. Yeah, and you know who thinks that this could be kryptonite for republicans is donald trump, right . Donald trump is out there publicly saying that this is a bad issue for republicans, that they should not be embracing sixweek bans. Hes reluctantly said he would embrace harsh Abortion Legislation himself and touted the fact that hes responsible for the three Supreme Court justices that ended roe, but hes also been very up front about what he thinks of the political costs of it and has moved away from it. Thats a factor, obviously, and will be in 2024. Look, i mean, were so far out, right . Were, what, 14 months. Its hard to divide what is going to happen based on polls. What we have seen, which has given some democratic optimism, is these special Election Results that have often seen democrats outperform historical margins in expectations. Will that change anything for 2024 . Who knows . Were so far out. The economy could take another twist or turn. Again, i completely agree with jonathan and willie, the bidenomics rebrand, really bad. Potentially fatal. You dont want to be owning an economy where people dont think it is going well for them. Also, it centers the economy on biden and not the people, which a lot of democrats had been worried about. But we have so much time and so many different concurrent issues, that i think we just need to take a bit of a breath, you know . Yeah. No doubt about it, we have a lot of time. Im glad you brought up the special elections. A state like florida, ron desantis won in a landslide. Republicans won in a landslide. They won because democrats just didnt fight. Democrats werent in the state of florida. It wasnt competitive. What happened when democrats pulled up all of their stakes . Left didnt fund the 2022 race. In 2023, theres a special election, and what happens for the first time in a long time . A democrat weap wins in jackson, in jacksonville. Anything can happen. Sam is right, we have a long way to go. Look at these special elections like the jacksonville mayors race. You see, again, that though republicans are ahead on issues, they still are being dragged down by donald trump and abortion bans. Everybody pause. Were going to be back in exactly one minute. In one minute, well get to our top story, and well talk to Richard Haass about the damage done by donald trump, potentially sharing Nuclear Secrets and what damage could be done if those Nuclear Secrets are shared with adversaries. Well be back in one minute. Reay encouraging news that youll definitely want to hear. Depending on the plans available in your area, you may be eligible to get extra benefits with a humana Medicare Advantage dualeligible Special Needs plan. All of these plans include a Healthy Options allowance, a monthly allowance to help pay for eligible groceries, utilities, rent, and overthecounter items. The Healthy Options allowance is loaded onto a prepaid card each month. And whatever you dont spend, carries over from each month. Other benefits on these plans include free rides to and from your medical appointments. And our Large Networks of doctors, hospitals and pharmacies. So, call the number on your screen now and ask about a humana Medicare Advantage dualeligible Special Needs plan. Humana. A more human way to healthcare. Here are the details of the new reporting on trump and Nuclear Secrets. Former President Donald Trump reportedly shared Classified Information about american Nuclear Submarines and their capabilities oh, my god, some of the most protected secrets. With an australian businessman, who then allegedly shared the information with more than a dozen foreign officials, sources familiar with the matter tell abc news. Meanwhile, two sources tell the New York Times that trumps disclosures potentially endangered the u. S. Nuclear fleet. The businessman, Anthony Pratt, is a member at maralago, who reportedly discussed the submarines with trump in april 2021. Great. According to the times, the foer president revealed at Least Twoieces of critical information about the u. S. Submarines tactical capabilities, including how many Nuclear Warheads the vessels carried and how close they could get to the russian counterparts without being detected. Isust its just gravating. At what Point Areou A russian agent . Its staggering. At what point do people stop voting for someone who is working for the russians, accidentally or by being a fool. Helping russia. Trumps remarks were described to at least 45 other people, including six journalists, 11 of his companys employees, 10 australian officials, and 3 former australian Prime Ministers. Why didnt he just go on the Joe Rogan Show, dude . It was reported to jack smiths team. This is enough. Richard haass, how damaging, how damaging is this information outside the scif . Lets give a little background here, joe. You have levels of classification, confidential, secret, top secret. Then at the level of top secret, you have compartments. When i was in government, middle east some time ago, you had more than 1,000 compartments. The whole idea was to restrict access to the most Sensitive Information, to those who literally had a need to know. Intelligence dealing with submarines is among the most protected information just because of their importance to american strategic deterrence, to stability more broadly. So the idea that this kind of information was widely shared, this is the kind of stuff, at a minimum, you strip people of their Security Clearances, and, at worse, you prosecute them. So this is just irresponsibility on steroids. In addition, it gives potentially russians all sorts of insights into capabiliies on our part, vulnerabilities on their part. Imagine youre a friendly government, australia, israel, others. What does this do to your willingness to share information with us . This has a Chilling Effect on our ability to work with our allies and partners, and at the same time, it is a gift to adversaries. Richard, you have to put this in context, do you not, of when this took place, April Of 2021. Its when the boxes of classified documents were stuffed in every corner of maralago. In other words, not a oneoff, a pattern. Just what i was going to say. This is not an exception. This is the rule. This is part of a pattern of irresponsibility, of negligence, and essentially lawbreaking. Again, in dealing with some of the most Sensitive National security secrets that we own. Richard, whats the fallout now today with this revelation in the National Security community . Like, how does this scramble what the u. S. Needs to know and protect and be aware of . You know, australia is an ally, but not everyone this guy spoke to may have been. I would expectlooking at wha they might have shared under the Trump Presidency, doing a damage assessment. Imagine if stuff was shared with us, other countries, and what it might mean. If i were in the navy, id think, what difference does this make . What was shared . If it reached the russians, what would be the tactical strategic means of that information . I dont know. When i was in government, i had no need to know this sort of st the military, the Intelligence Community, dealing with this type of military involvement. This is not, you know, the average no diplomat would have access to this. You didnt need to know it. So, sam, just to get on the record here, trump people say the story lacks proper context. Unclear what the context is. Boy, my god. In which youd talk about the capabilities of Nuclear Submarines with an australian businessman on the patio at maralago. Provide some context, please. Yeah, the context, the context is what was on the menu that night, what they were eating, the appetizers, yeah. Need to know that, clearly. No, i cant get by Richards Point, that anyone else lower than trump had done this, right, just imagine someone who had unique ccess to this, a staffer, and went about spilling it. Wed probably be looking at a prosecution, right . The double standards or the different standards, i should say, that trump is held to are not just political, right . I know a lot of democrats are saying, oh, my god, if joe biden were to have done this, if Hillary Clinton were to have done this, we never would have stopped hearing about this. Thats probably true. We heard forever about email servers. But the real double standard is, you know, trump and people below him. He does things that other people would be prosecuted or fired for, but he and his staff dismiss it saying, well, that lacks context or, well, he is the president and he can do it, so on and so forth. You know, thats whats Trike Striking to me. What would actually happen if a staffer was caught revealing these secrets . How would that be handled internally and by prosecutors . Thats easy. I mean, in the short run, youd lose all access to any Classified Information. Youd probably lose access to your computer and your job. At best, youd be on administrative leave. At some point, itd be handed over to the Justice Department. Weve seen this. This is what happens to people who are either reckless with Classified Information, and in some cases, that actively handed it over to others. This is not a gray area. This is pretty black and white. Yeah, i mean, it is pretty black and white. You look back, again, and look at officials who have done so far less. Look at General Petraeus, which, of course, the great irony here is General Petraeus, one of the reasons donald trump said that he didnt collect General Petraeus as Secretary Of State is because he had Classified Information on his laptop. Nothing like this. Nothing like Nuclear Secrets. He just couldnt let him be Secretary Of State because it was so offensive to the other generals who were working with him. You look at sandy berger. Again, nothing close to Nuclear Secrets. No. Or nuclear war plans. You look at Director Deutsch of the cia. These are all people who took things that richard i mean, richard will tell you well, well below Nuclear Secrets. Nuclear secrets are the most protected secrets. You think about lets say that general mattis had leaked information or blabbed information about war plans, Nuclear Secrets, or nuclear subs. He would have been prosecuted. He probably would have spent time in jail. Thats what is so irritating about republicans talking about double standards. Nobody, nobody has lived by a double standard and been given a wider berth than donald trump. Heres yet another example of it. This would send any of those people straight to jail. Yes. Yeah, and it has sent people to jail for much less. It is this bigger idea, as you say, of Grading Donald Trump on a curve. Why does he get a pass on this stuff when no one else would . Why do Republicans Go, oh, yeah, he said he thinks that general milley should be executed. Thats just him popping off. It is donald being donald. They moved the window so far, they excuse almost everything. There is an important everything. Point to make. This isnt just a fascinating story or curiosity. This information, according to the New York Times and abc news, intersects with jack smith, the Special Counsels investigation, which may call Anthony Pratt, this businessman, as a witness in the documents case against donald trump, displaying further how cavalier he was with Classified Information around maralago. All right. Coming up, new legal developments in five, five separate cases involving the former president , including a claim from trumps legal team that hes immune from federal charges related to Election Interference. Hold on a second. Hes immune. We have a ruling coming down. Did he get a vaccine . Denied. Morning joe will be right back. There are giants among us. They are the men and women building our navys next generation submarines. They are giants in what they do because they work in a place where they can grow. Where they can learn the skills to build careers as powerful as the beasts they forge. We build giants. Because it takes one to build one. I suffer with Psoriatic Arthritis and psoriasis. I was on a journey for a really long time to find some relief. Cosentyx works for me. Cosentyx helps real people get real relief from the symptoms of Psoriatic Arthritis or psoriasis. Serious allergic reactions, severe Skin Reactions that look like eczema, and an increased risk of infections, some fatal, have occurred. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to or if ibd symptoms develop or worsen. I move so much better because of cosentyx. Ask your rheumatologist about cosentyx. This month join the new Subway Mvp Rewards program and get rewarded. Get 50 off any footlong when you join Subway Mvp Rewards. So many all star options. Its just for subway mvps right . You catch on quick herbert. Join now and get 50 off any footlong. At bombas, we make the comfiest socks, underwear, and tshirts that feel good, and most of all, do good. Because when you purchase one, we donate one to those in need. Visit bombas. Com and get 20 off your first purchase. Bombas. Liberty mutual customized my Car Insurance and i saved hundreds. With the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. Oh. [dog barks] no its just a bunny only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Donald trumps legal team is working to delay or dismiss several of his ongoing legal battles involving the former president. First, the trump team moved to dismiss the indictment in his federal Election Interference case by claiming immunity. His attempts to overturn the loss and remain in the white house were at the, quote, heart of his official responsibilities as president , end quote. In New York City, the trump team filed to have his case dismissed regarding the falsifying of business records, the one related to Hush Money Payments Involving Adult Film Actress stormy daniels. The team argued prosecutors waited too long to bring that case. Next up, the former president s classified documents case, where trumps lawyers once again asked judge Aileen Cannon to postpone the trial until after next years president ial election. Also, the former president unexpectedly dismissed a 500 million lawsuit against his former lawyer, Michael Cohen, yesterday, while vowing to revisit it at a later date. Trump had been scheduled to sit for a deposition in the case on monday. Ahha. Lastly, Donald Trumps lawyers are expected to ask for a pause in his Civil Fraud Trial today after an irate former president left the courthouse in New York City on monday. His attorneys returned yesterday, informing judge Arthur Engoron of their going to stay the case. We have a Pulitzer Prize winner, craig, reporting on donald trump. And catherine christian, former District Attorney in the manhattan d. A. s office. Good morning to you both. You need one of those big boards where you connect the yarn, like carrie in homeland, to keep track of all these. Suzanne, lets start with what youve been covering. Yup. The Civil Fraud Trial. Ri moving along . He was here for a few days this week, and then exited. The Attorney General has been there every day that ive been down. We dont know if donald trump is going to come back. I think, you know, every day, you sort of wonder, will he be there . There is speculation he may come back for Michael Cohens testimony next week. Thats a grudge match that has been going on for a long time. We dont know exactly when Michael Cohen will be up, but it could be kind of wednesday thursday. A lot of it depends on the pacing of the other witnesses. Theres some sort of dry accounting testimony now, and after that, Michael Cohen should be up. That would be fascinating. His longtime righthand staring him down inside the courtroom. Michael cohen has already been this presence in the courtroom. In the opening arguments, his name was evoked by trumps lawyers. He was called a pathological liar and you cant trust him. Michael cohen on msnbc the day before the trial was like, im going to be there Monday Morning, and im going to face him down and look him in the eye. I think a lot of things are building now to Michael Cohens testimony. Its going to be itll be interesting to see if donald trump does come back to the city for it. While on the subject of Michael Cohen, in the separate case where donald trump sued for 500 million, suddenly dropping the case. Why . Because he didnt want to be deposed. Exactly. Because, you know, maybe he forgot that if youre suing, the defendant has a right to call you to a deposition and take your testimony. He was reminded of that, and i think thats probably the reason why he said, never mind. Joe . Susanne, for those of us who have known donald trump a long time, whether reverend al, us, other people, we just notice a difference in the way donald trump is responding to this civil challenge in manhattan right now and how he has responded almost with contempt to the criminal cases. This seems to be hitting so much closer home to him. Im wondering, as somebody who has followed him and reported on him on these fronts, if youre not sensing that, too, that he understands this is a much more direct, immediate threat to who he is, how he sees himself, and his ability to move forward. How he can operate. Living a lavish lifestyle. I think theres two reasons for that. I think its so true, and i think, you know, the first reason is it does really strike to his heart. This is his image. He ran on being a selfmade billionaire, to be president. That was the reason we were supposed to vote for him. This was back to when he was a kid, its all about the minnesota. Money. He was always, im worth this, even when he wasnt. In the 1970s, he was appropriating his wealth and saying it was his own. His whole essence is this. I think the other reason this case strikes so much to home is it is a trial Going Forward that there has already been real repercussions on it. The judge had an order that he has already been found liable for fraud. Even more than that, theres now a receiver over his business. Somebody else is going to be running it. You know, theyre fighting a reallife fight here thats already had, you know, just huge repercussions for the business. Business certificates have been pulled. Youre seeing both, something that strikes to his heart, and there is something thats actually happened thats huge. At the end of this, there could be hundreds of millions of dollars in penalties. I cant see that thats going to go down to 30 million or 40 million. You could be seriously looking at the liquidation of some of his assets in new york. Theyre fighting for their life in there, and youre seeing it. I totally agree. I think the second part of what she said, joe, is the bottom line. Because he cannot function without his businesses, at least appearing to function. Right. Theyre already being impacted. Keep in mind, hes showing up. He didnt show up at, you know, things that you would imagine would be existential threats to our democracy, as it pertains to the indictments. Well, yeah. This is a fraud trial. He showed up for three days to a trial he has already lost. Right. He is making the arguments to reporters outside that the judge has already ruled on it inside, he doesnt have to be there, yet hes saying, theyre forcing him to be there. No, theyre not. There are people on fox news saying, i cant believe theyre forcing him. Nobody is forcing him to be there. Lets see what happens on television that leans right, fox news or whatever, they only cover trump saying, i dont have to be here. Im stuck here. I should be on the campaign trail. I have to be here, and im stuck here. They dont ever correct that. So when they do cover these stories that are extremely negative and reveal horrible facts about donald trump, they somehow just run sound bites of trump, then repeat what trump said, and then move on. Right. The twisting of the facts. They dont cover the story. So this is this is a challenge. Donald trump has been lying about how much hes worth his entire life. I think it is remarkable that when he put Art Of The Deal out, painted himself as this mastermind, that americans said, wait, thats the Business Person i want to be. At the same time, New York Times was reporting that over the decade, when they got the tax returns, that he lost more money. He reported more losses than any american at that time. The Art Of The Deal, no, thank you. I do want to ask you, catherine, usually, when i look at appeals that donald trump is putting out there, im like, no, no, no, no. But theres one that we read that im curious what your thoughts are. That is about the manhattan d. A. Taking too long to bring the hush money case. There have been a lot of legal commentaors who have shown little patience for Donald Trumps arguments and his lawyers arguments, but this is one. This is one thing that, again, a lot of commentators after alvin bragg put out the charges, were scratching their head going, we dont exactly get this. Is there a possibility he could win that appeal . Not for that ground, because the statute of limitations in new york for a felony is five years. But there was covid. During covid, the then Governor Cuomo extended, basically held the statute of limitations because there were no trials. The d. A. s office calculated they were within the statute of limitations, so that argument will fail. Itll fail with judge merchan. Itll fail if he is convicted on appeal. Lets turn to one of the other legal developments with trump, and there are so many. This is the seeming hail mary his team is throwing in the Election Interference case in washington, not georgia. Because he was conducting the duties as president , therefore, he has blanket immunity, suggesting no president can ever be held responsible or charged with a crime. Is there any chance that can be successful . I showed susanne the old clip of Richard Nixon telling david frost, when the president does it, thats not illegal. That is their argument. That, you know, you cannot prosecute, criminally, a sitting president of the United States. The lore is you cannot sue, a lawsuit, of a sitting president of the United States. What will happen here in the end, its really about delay. Judge chutkan will deny it. It will then be appeared to the d. C. Circuit court of appeals. Theyll probably deny it, and i think theyll move quickly to decide it. But then theyre going to file cert and ask the Supreme Court of the United States to hear it. Thats where the issue is. Not whether or not theyre going to say theyre right. Will they take their time in deciding it and decide it after the election . This is all about trying to delay that January 6th Trial until after november geez. 2024. New york times Investigative Reporter susanne craig, and analyst catherine christian, thank you, both for being on the show with your insights. We should have asked them about mr. Pillow. Were going to do that soon. You think so . Were going to talk about mr. Pillow. I think we figured out why his pillows are so lumpy. Remember the guy said they were lumpy, and he was angry . He gets mad if you talk about his Lumpy Pillows, but there was one person in a deposition who said, you know, were not going to talk about your Lumpy Pillows, insinuating they were super lumpy. Maybe it is because he is keeping his money in the pillows and mattresses, of course, only singles. Maybe he puts rocks in them. No. Because he is not paying his lawyers, thats for sure. Maybe he has hes shoving the has left. Or the ugly slippers. You got Me Those For Christmas Last year. I did not. Rudy apparently wears them and loves the slippers. He does . He did a commercial for mr. Pillow. Must have the reverse midas touch. Well talk about you wear the slippers, you lose all your money . I dont know. Well talk about this coming up. I have to take an this is a fairy tale. Wear mr. Pillows slippers, lose all your money. How rudy and mr. 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I got to sell the house vo dont wait, just sell directly to opendoor. Easy as pie. pam piece of cake. vo whichever. Get your Competitve Offer at opendoor. Com. Conquer financial reports. Conquer 2000word essays. Conquer a 6 course menu. Rule over what you write with the smooth writing, longest lasting gel ink pen in america. Do you g2 . Pain in my heart lumpy pillow. It is rainy in New York City. Yeah. Kind of sad music to help you jump out of bed at 6 45 a. M. On the east coast. Poor mr. Pillow. I know. You know, he didnt learn the lesson that my grandfather told me. What was that . He said, joey, if youre going to start a Business Selling Lumpy Pillows you shouldnt sell Lumpy Pillows. My granddad said, make sure at the same time, you dont spread Conspiracy Theories and try to do your part to overturn american democracy. Bad mix. He told me that, like, number two. Number one was dont swim after a big meal. There are a lot of things. These are some basics, right . Yeah. Willies grandfather told him the same thing. These are just some basics. You do it please dont. You either get cramps or you go bankrupt. Yeah. I mean, come on, willie. Does this guy not have a granddad telling him this stuff . During the 30 minutes you wait between eating and swimming, dont call for matial law during an election. I never tried the my pillow, so i dont want to disparage it, but generally speaking, you want a nice, flat, cool pillow, no lumps interrupting your sleep. All right. You know i dont we dont laugh youre liking the appalachian trail, your neck is like, oh, up and down, up and down, like a maniac. I know youre still in tennessee. You wake up and, oh. Have you noticed that the siri on this updated iphone picks up everything . Everything we just said is coming to my phone. First of all, thank you for doing that. Yeah. Secondly, never, ever, willie, turn on siri. It doesnt work. Its ridiculous. Yeah. Back to the topic. We talking about mr. Pillow . Lawyers defending the My Lumpy Pillow Guy i usually dont have neck problems, but you mentioned my pillow. You used the lumpy pillow . You gave me the slippers but not the lumpy pillow. Ew. Lawyers representing my pillow guy is dropping him as a client, apparently because he hasnt paid them. Its a theme in the trump sir circle. Theyre currently defending mike lindell and his business against Defamation Claims from Voting Machine Companies and smartmatic and dominion voting systems, along with a third suit brought by a dominion employee. All three claim their reputations were damaged by lindells repeated claims of fraud surrounding the 2020 president ial election. Now, attorneys for lindell claim he is months behind on paying their legal bills. Yeah. Amounting to millions of dollars. They say they can no longer afford to represent him. Does nobody, does nobody in this crowd understand that you get retainers from these people . Because they dont pay. I mean, lindell, of course who thought theyd pay . I know. What lawyer thought that guy would pay his bills and Rudy Giuliani would pay his bills and, quite frankly, donald trump when he runs out of money . Mr. Pillow said hed gladly pay them if he wasnt broke. If my grandfather would have told him if youd listen, dont try to run an online Pillow Business while youre trying to foment, you know, a coup. Yeah. As willie said, in between your Fried Chicken and your swim in the lake, calling for martial law. Willie, that never works. No. By the way, your grandfather was a visionary. He saw Online Shopping coming that long ago. He did. Its really, really something. He did. With the pillow specifically. Really great. This guy knows. He saw this coming. All right. Wait, by the way, so in all seriousness, mike lindell has been sued by dominion for 1. 3 billion. He says hes lost 100 million because his product was pulled from stores like Bed Bath Beyond and walmart. He says its cancel culture. They say, no, we dont want to be in bed with a guy who is calling for the overturning of elections and martial law and disparaging people. They have a Business Decision to make, and they stopped using the mr. Pillow stuff. So he says thats why he has no money to pay, but, in the end, like all these guys, hes the victim. Yeah. Always the victim. By the way, let us just say, i just want everybody to know, weve never used mr. Pillows pillows. Our slippers, though, maybe theyre the best in the world, we just hear theyre lumpy. People say, willie. Lumpy. People say theyre lumpy. Its like your neck is hiking the appalachian trail. Thats what some people say. Many people are saying, yeah. Many people are saying that. Anyway, how is rudy doing, americas mayor . Not too good, no. Rudy giuliani needs new lawyers now in his Georgia Election interference case. Really . An atlantabased attorney told the hill he filed a motion wednesday to withdraw from the case. The move leaves giuliani without any local Legal Counsel after another georgiabased attorney withdrew from the case last week. I cant believe it. Neither attorney gave a reason for their decision, but it could be a money issue. Last month, giuliani was sued by his former lawyers, who claim he owes them nearly 1. 4 million in legal fees that he has not coughed up. Hmm. Giuliani has pleaded not guilty in his Georgia Election case. So surprised. There is a pattern. Giuliani also owes the irs more than half a Million Dollars in taxes from 2021. He also is facing a lien on a property he owns in palm beach, florida. Giuliani reportedly has put that property up for sale. Adviser to giuliani responded to nbc news yesterday with a statement, writing in part, giuliani through his accountant has a formal agreement with the irs to pay off the liability. Remember, hes been calling and calling and trying to get donald trump to help him with the legal bills. Finally, donald trump held the fundraiser for rudy at maralago, to raise money for his Legal Defense fund. Unclear where the money went or if it is helping rudy with his problems. If he actually got it. Yeah. Probably the sons kept 75 of it, like they always did with those stories we heard about the when they were fundraising. No, sam stein, its not going well for him. He says that he is striking a deal with the irs, but im not so sure the irs is going to forgive all that for a couple cases of chateau guam. He doesnt have the money to pay this off. I dont know how he gets out of this without going bankrupt. Its so funny you said that. You took my joke. I was going to suggest that lindell pays lawyers off with pillows, but your version of this was much better than mine. Well, thank you, sam. Thats why i have a fivehour show. There is a first here. No, they have trouble paying off their bills because theyre broke. This is what happens when you get yourself embroiled in a ton of legal problems, you end up paying a lot of legal fees. You know, again, im with mika. You know, if youre going to hire these as clients, youre a lawyer, you should probably get a retainer. At least in the case of donald trump, there was the lawyer down in florida who said, no, youre giving me 3 esgrow account before i represent you. Some know what to do, but not all of them. Sam stein, thank you for being with us. Thanks, guys. Always great to see ya. I want to talk to richard. Our good friend David Ignatius is reporting from kyiv, and it is incredible reporting there. Before, willie, i want to stop for one second, where these guys have been acting outrageously. Were joking around about it, just how stupid and outrageous theyve been behaving, but this goes back to you know, we talk about gravity. These people lied for years. Yeah. Just lied for years. They called for martial law. They lied through their teeth about stolen elections. They lied about smartmatic. They lied about you know, they put people you know, Rudy Giuliani put peoples lives in danger by lying about them stealing votes from, you know, georgia vote counting centers. And the bill comes due. I mean, the bill is coming due for donald trump. This is the phase we are in in American History. Were in the age of trump. You could lie about stolen elections. You could lie about people that were Election Workers. You could lie about you could lie about anything. The sandy hook parents. You could say the most horrific lies. All of those bills came due. All of them. Now, were seeing it for the ringleader of these lies, this alternative reality. Were seeing that come due in a way that i think is going to end up being financially crushing to him. I think we should just step back for a second. For years, weve asked, how do you get away with this . How do people just lie through their teeth, and they know theyre lying . The people letting them go on News Networks know theyre lying, and they just get away with it. Well, kids who are watching, guess what . Theyre not. The bill always comes due. Willie, it looks like it is coming due, not only for mike lindell and Rudy Giuliani, a tragic story, but also for donald trump. Yeah, it sure does. I think a lot of people were impatient. Why does donald trump get away with everything . While people were asking those questions, Special Counsel jack smith was building a case. D. A. Fani willis was building a case in georgia. The cases in new york were being built. Now, donald trump, weve seen him this week sitting in a courtroom three days. Next year, well see him in a bunch of courtrooms. He is facing the music, beginning now and through next year. The people who snuggled up to him, i think expecting he would protect them, guys like Rudy Giuliani and the mr. Pillow guy, they thought being close to donald trump was going to save them, was going to rescue them in some way. Now, here we are. Donald t i your loyalty. They thought they participated cheaply in this attempt to overturn the election of 2020, to throw out rhetoric, to say things that got them attention, relevance, in the case of Rudy Giuliani. Right. Now, he is effectively broke. Donald trump is not going to save him. When you say things about Election Workers in georgia, like ruby freeman and shaye moss, and you make wild accusations, defaming their character when they were volunteering to participate in the process, that bill is coming due, too. Yes, it took time, but the bills are coming due for all these guys. Whats so again, i dont know. A lot of people have always hated rudy. There are others that commended him for what he did after 9 11. I certainly did. The turnaround of New York City by, if you want to say, rudy and the commissioners and everybody else, from 93 to 95, remarkable. The thing about giuliani was, i talked to him privately while donald trump was running. He wasnt a donald trump fan. He just wasnt. In fact, he was critical of the way trump negotiated and thought it was always a zero sum game. He actually was critical of the way trump negotiated and thought it wasnt a way a leader should negotiate. And, you know, he was, i guess, so desperate to stay in the spotlight, so desperate to stay relevant, that he ran to him anyway. Now, donald trump, it looks like donald trump bankrupted him and destroyed a good bit of his life. The whole thing is tragic. Again, we didnt laugh, wed be crying at all the different consequences of this behavior. Coming up at the top of the hour, Richard Haass is going to join us once again. We have peter baker and Susan Glasser joining us to talk about ukraine, the chaos in congress, and controversy over support for ukraine, as well. Donald trump apparently sharing Nuclear Secrets with an australian businessman. Yeah. And a new poll out shows some pretty interesting results. Well be right back. I brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein. Those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. Ahh, here, ill take that. Woo hoo ensure max protein 30 grams protein, one gram sugar, 25 vitamins and minerals, and nutrients for immune health. only the sleep number climate360 smart bed lets you both sleep up to 13 degrees cooler or warmer for immune health. On either side, and at your ideal level of comfort. Your sleep number setting the allnew queen sleep number® c2 smart bed is only 880. Sleep next level. Shop now only at sleep number. Guys, the number one movie in the country right now is paw patrol. I havent seen it yet, but it looks pretty good. If you want a refresher, here is the trailer. The paw patrol is back. This time, theyre taking on their scariest villain yet. President bidens dog has bitten Somebody Else. Its the Paw Patrol Versus commander biden, now in theaters. Whats the dogs name . Commander. We just said that. Welcome back to morning joe. Friday, october 6th. So mika says to me as were coming in, oh, theyre going crazy about that on fox. I go, because the dog is biting everybody the dog is biting everybody. Theyre moving the dog. How many bites does a German Shepherd get . In my house, none. Open your mouth, and youre going to the lemires farm in western pennsylvania. Jonathan lemire still with us, Richard Haass. Joining the conversation, the host of on brand with Donny Deutsch. Wait, wait, wait. Oh. Whats going on here . Willie . Yes . We used to have somebody that worked for our network that had a tanning bed. I wonder if Donny Deutsch now, did he inherit that tanning bed . I cant wait for the sleuths to try to figure out who youre talking about there. Donny, that is a deep, i would say, natural tan. I see you out in central park, one of those reflectors, right . Yeah. Um i dont like the visual image. I have that look naturally, you know. Im not going to comment on that. We love the jacket. Who did you compare yourself to, which was great . The dox of morning joe. Showing up, different outfits, tan, ready to go. The glasses. It works, you know . Ive got to say, even though only 14 people in the audience get the reference, the Doc Severenson reference, i still think, like, one of the great one of televisions greatest inventions was Johnny Carson. When i was a young kid, id watch Johnny Carson and say, i cant believe we get to see this every night. That this guy is on every single night. Johnny, he was so great, willie. He was so i mean, nobody better. He was. In a way that we dont even experience. We have great late night comics, including a couple upstairs here, but, like, the Appointment Viewing and the numbers of people who tuned in and watched and hung on every joke, word, and how he could make or break a career if you were a standup comedian. If you got 5, 10 minutes on Johnny Carson, that was it. The next day, your career was made. He was special and inspired all the guys doing it now. Different landscape, too. He was so special. Donny, the thing about Johnny Carson, because everybody wants to know right now, watching this morning, why is Johnny Carson so successful . Maybe three wanted to know that. But for marketing, youd understand this, and its a good message, whether youre a politician or whether youre selling a product or a brand, Johnny Carson always said, you succeeded, you won in central time zone. If youre a guy from i think he was from nebraska. So if he could relate to people in the central time zone, like, we were central time zone people, but still be beloved on the coasts, man, that is just a guy that cut across demos that nobody cuts across these days. Great point. You watched him. If you lived in a blue state, urban center, he was cool, he was hip, he was relevant. Middle of the country, he was a kid from nebraska you could relate to. Couple other things about carson that made him special. He made everyone around him better. He lifted every i dont care whether you were a comedian or straight man. I saw clips on the internet. Youd see on one show, sinatra, bob hope, theyre all out there. It was happening every night. Well never see anything in Television Like that and media like that again. Partially because were so fragmented, but carson, just look at old clips, just incredible. All right. Theyll be saying the same thing about your limited run show, donny, 30 years from now. By the way, i would like to a little plug on that. I dont know if many people are aware of this. Years ago, i wrote a sitcom, starred. Go on itunes, look at it. Very funny. It was a short lived but a wonderful, extravagant trip into comedy lane for myself. Okay. Good, something i wont be doing. All right. [ laughter ] staff writer at The New Yorker set yourself up for that. Yeah. Chief correspondent for the New York Times, peter baker. You walked into it, seriously . Yeah. They are coauthors of the 2022 book, the divider. Trump and the white house, now available in paperback. Good to have you on board. We have richard still with us. We have a lot to talk about, and well be getting to the David Ignatius column. David went to kyiv. Tough column. Tough questions the people of ukraine are asking themselves right now. Well get to that in a little bit. Donny, speaking of branding, id love to pass by you this latest poll that came out yesterday in the new york post. Caught my attention. Reading the newspaper of record for morning joe, the new york post. They ran this, a marquette law poll. Very good poll. Has joe biden ahead of donald trump among likely voters, which is the voter group you look to, 51 to 49 . So you have that, right . Now, look at the issues and where the parties stand on the issues. The democratic brand is so battered right now. On inflation, trump beating biden by 23 . On the economy, i mean, its the economy, stupid . Not always. Trump is beating biden on the economy 24 . On immigration and Border Security, 24 . On creating jobs, 19 . On foreign relations, 5 . It gets tighter. Biden wins on medicare, social security, on abortion policy, and o climate change. But you look at those top issues, inflation, the economy, creating jobs, you know, carville famously said, its the economy, stupid. Yet, you look at the overall, donny we can get off that slide now, thank you. You look at the overall, and biden is ahead. This is what republicans on the hill understand. This is what republicans off the hill understand. This is what republican fundraisers understand. That, actually, the democratic brand is more beaten up than the republican brand, if you look at the issues, but you look at the gallup poll that shows the same thing here, and you see both parties right now are loathed. 56 , 57 , 58 of americans disapprove of both parties. So it just seems to me, again, the republican brand is so dragged down by donald trump. Yet, they just dont seem to get it. The base doesnt seem to get it. Id be amazed, you know, to see weve seen polls also in the past with nikki haley, up 5 points, and some of the other candidates. If they had anybody else there, they would be way, way up. Its not even a question. The issue becomes, what do Democrats Doo . I think the answer is why is the brand so bad, donny . I could show you a lot of things that showed that our military is stronger relative to the rest of the world than ever before. Once again, leading in nato. Nato is expanding, stronger than ever. Jobs. You want a job, its out there for you. Whats happening . Is inflation really that much of a Drag On Biden and the economy . Its two things. I think its, from an issue point of view, i do think inflation is the one. Its hard to find something else. Ill Say Something else i think is hard to say. I think a lot is biden. He does not come across as inspiring and strong, and weve seen poll after poll, that he comes across as old. I hate this because i think he is a good man and i think he has been an effective president , but for whatever the reason, in this telogenic world we live in, i dont think he is inspiring and he is hurting the brand. He is our guy, and well get behind him, but thats my honest answer. Richard, important issue looking at the poll is immigration. It appears yesterday at least the Biden Administration with a couple new things. The announcement they are going to allow up to 20 new miles of Donald Trumps border wall to be completed. They have to do that legally for budget reasons, not their choice. Also, theyre going to deport venezuelan migrants, as well. Waking up to the fact that the crisis at the border is not some pet fox news issue, that it is impacting everybody in this country. Hes hearing it, the president is, from the mayor of New York City, very vocal in the last few days, from the governor of illinois, both democrats, that this is a real problem that is affecting their towns. The administration has been so out of step with the country on this and so slow to realize that this is a major problem, and it is not just fox. It is across the country. As you say, democrats are pushing back because they have to govern. This is not an abstraction now. The administration policy, willie, yes, they made some small steps, more wall, were going to deport some people, but it is truly incoherent. You just let in 480,000 venezuelans. That put them on temporary protected status. Now, youre going to start sending them back, but how many . If you have temporary protected status, that means people can work. Thats still a magnet to come here. Look, the administration cant quite decide what its Immigration Policy is. What worries me, besides it is overwhelming cities and the politics of this, its discrediting immigration. This is a country that immigration has been part of our story, part of our greatness. What this is doing is raising across the political spectrum the sense that immigration is illegitimate. Its illegal. We have got to get to the point where we control our borders, but we have a large Legal Immigration program for people who need to come here for humanitarian reasons. We also need it for economic reasons. This is the administration is still one step in the right direction, but they have a long ways to go. John, were these two moves, as richard says, very affecting the margins, the crisis happening there, are these a first acknowledgment at least from the Biden Administration about the extent of the problem at the border . Theres been a its been fit fit fits and starts. Pandemic, they fought to keep the rules, but then lifted it. Eric adams, mayor of new york, has been complaining about this, and the white house dismissed him because he seeks attention and such. Governor pritzker of illinois, his words carry more weight. He is a close biden ally. Also, chicago in illinois is hosting the Convention Next year. We have reporting from Julie Ainsley from chicago well show later in the show, showing how the migrant issue is an issue. This is something americans are concerned about. Its partially in big, blue cities, democratic strongholds, the kind of places where this president is going to need to turn out as many voters as possible next year. Right. You know, weve heard about immigration and Border Security being an issue in 2018. It ended up not being an issue. We heard it in 2020 and 2022. Ended up not being an issue. I dont know if itll be a political issue in 2024. I do know that a lot of americans, like me, have been concerned about it for a long time. Concerned about it not because im antiimmigrant. I agree with ronald reagan. We are a nation of immigrants. Immigrants make us, but they need to come legally. We saw with barack obama, at the end of Barack Obamas term, the lowest number of illegal Border Crossings in 50 years. Things have gotten worse since then, and they continue to get worse year after year after year. So what i want to understand, though, peter baker, is explain know the dynamics of why the white house keeps falling over themselves on this issue . As richard says, they seem to be hung up. They dont exactly know which way to go. Why cant say put somebody in charge and say, the first thing were going to do is stop the massive flow of immigrants coming into the United States. The next thing were going to do, were going to make sure there are officials that process this. The next thing were going to do is really work aggressively toward raising the limits of Legal Immigration. Why cant they have that sort of approach . Yeah. I mean, look, you see, obviously, a stutter step approach. I think Jonathan Lemire said it right. Sometimes, Secretary Blinken right now is in mexico talking to the government there. You see the moves in terms of the wall, venezuelans. It doesnt have the sense of urgency in this white house. You dont hear the president talk about this. You dont hear his top aides talk about this on a regular basis. Its not an issue that commands their attention like ukraine or others that they focus on. I think part of that is the hangover from the trump era, which is not an era that is necessarily over. Immigration has been inflamed. It has been turned into such a divisive issue. Thats something that biden hates. I think he hates what he thinks donald trump did to immigration. Turning it into an us versus them issue, playing off of racial animus. Therefore, any move that seems to restrict immigration, ilLegal Immigration, becomes tarnished by that. I think they struggle to find a rational approach that doesnt seem to play into what they believe are racist stereotypes. Susan, this reminds me of the obama administration, doing everything they can do to not be the bush and Cheney Administration on Foreign Policy. After being in the white house a while, they understood why bush and cheney did a lot of what they did. You had a ramping up of drone attacks, even the killing of americans in ways that shocked a lot of obama supporters. Then the immediate withdrawal from iraq, then going back into iraq because of the devices. Here, it does seem like the Biden Administration is less focused on policy and more focused on not doing things that donald trump did. How much has that impacted them in a negative sense . So they havent been able to respond effectively to a growing crisis. Yeah, i think thats a really good point. You know, you mentioned bush. Ive been thinking back. Think how long its been since the last real chance to have meaningful immigration. The george w. Bush presidency. The republicans, theyve been very successfully demagoguing off of this. Donald trump to this day, he believes thats why he won elections in 2016. Immigration is this divisive issue. It was from the moment he went down the escalator. For democrats, its become, in reaction to that, a sort of third rail of politics. Biden has suffered again and again and again because they appear to be purely reactive. Thats the thing thats really striking to me. Theyve never spoken to the country and outlined, what is their perspective . What is their theory of the case . I could not tell you after following this closely throughout the biden tenure. I couldnt tell you what their overall view of Immigration Policy is. Yeah. Moving to ukraine. More than 50 ukrainian civilians are dead after a Russian Missile strike at a cafe yesterday. It happened in a tiny village in Ukraines Kharkiv region, where people were gathered for a wake when the missile struck the area. The location had no military or industrial targets nearby and is about 23 miles away from the front lines. Just more heinous actions, more war crimes from Vladimir Putin, which, Richard Haass, leads to the David Ignatius column, where david says the ukrainians seem to understand that they cant continue fighting this war forever. At the same time, they are in no mood to give up to a guy who would massacre 50 civilians at a cafe, sitting there remembering Somebody Else who just passed. It is a difficult situation, but you read between the lines, and David Ignatius seems to suggest to us that they are now trying to figure out what the end game looks like. Ukraine has all sorts of problems. One, we dont want to see it destroyed in order to save it. The defense of ukraine, for them, is not an abstraction. It is a painful, costly, daily reality. Theyve got a real problem. There is a gap between their articulated goals and their means to bring them about. Increasingly, you see the reality. David reports on it. Funny sort of way, joe, there is a more honest conversation about ukraine in ukraine than there is here. Here, it is almost cancel culture if you suggest any of this. But theyre not going to get back militarily all of the territory they had when they became independent in 91. Theyre not going to get all the economic reparations they want. You probably wont get war crimes accountability, even though war crimes have been committed, to the extent that accountability by the way, richard, let me say it, theyre not going to get crimea back. Theyre just not. Again, people can get angry about that, but theyre just not. Most likely, theyre not going to do that unless things change dramatically. Isnt the bestcase scenario for ukraine, and it is a goodcase scenario despite all the horrific suffering theyve endured, is having a country that is closely aligned with the west, may be a member of the eu, may have sort of some quasi eligibility. Nato relationship, have the United States and other countries rebuilding it, and send a very clear message to the russians, okay, you did what you did with ukraine. Were now rebuilding and, you know, hands off this country. Is that not a win for ukraine, in that you are actually guaranteeing kyiv that theyre going to be their own free, independent state with a great future . As an interim arrangement, absolutely. I think thats not a bad outcome. It doesnt mean ukraine should or would give up its longterm goals of regaining all of its territory. My guess is, though, joe, thats a generational thing. It is after putin. Youre not going to get peace now. I think the best you can hope now is for some type of a cease fire, a de facto armistice, but you have security arrangements, if not formally from nato, from the United States and several others, a context in which ukraine can stop losing lives and start rebuilding. You dont give up your principle, but youre pragmatic about what youre prepared to live with as an interim arrangement. Ill be honest, the interim arrangement could last for years or decades. By the way, thats what weve seen incyprus, the israeli border. What we see with taiwan. You dont always get peace, the formal arrangement. The question is, can you get Something Better than what you have without giving up your longterm goals or principles . I think you can. Thats the debate well have. What peter has been writing about in the New York Times, i think whats going on politically in washington may hasten it. What were beginning to see, theres a bit of war fatigue in this country. You know, the isolationism, the prorussianism is kicking in. Well have a serious debate here which is going to parallel the debate in ukraine, about how long do we continue on the course were on . Peter, lets talk about the worlds view of the fight for the speakership and Kevin Mccarthy being tossed out of his job and what it may mean for americas ongoing support of ukraine in its fight against russia. What is the concern around the world, and do you think any of these people, whoever becomes the next speaker of the house, will continue american support for ukraine . Yeah, i think this is a really key week in the conversation were having, both here and abroad. What richard was talking about in terms of finding a solution to the ukraine war depends, in part, on The Other Side, and what The Other Side is right now, the person who is watching whats happening in washington right now with a great deal of satisfaction is Vladimir Putin. He has spent the last number of years trying to sow dissension in the american policy. Thats what the 2016 intervention was originally about. Originally started off the idea that they could sow dissension among americans through disinformation and so forth. Eventually became a more explicit goal of electing donald trump. Now, hes looking at whats happening here in washington, and he is basically saying, thats what i wanted to happen, americans at each others throats, incapable of leading the world because they cant even have a speaker of the House Of Representatives at this point. If youre Vladimir Putin, theres no solution or resolution to the fight for the next 14 months. Youre going to wait out and see what happens. Youll wait and see whether the Congress Actually does fail to pass more military aid, as at the moment they are stuck on. Youll wait and see whether donald trump wins the November 2024 election. Clearly, donald trump is going to be friendlier to moscow than the Biden Administration is. Right. I think that that means we are stuck, at the very least, 14 more months of this war without movement or acceptance, in terms of whether they can do anything on the ground. There is no way Vladimir Putin hes going to play for time, and there is no agreement the ukrainians could agree to or trust with putin. Why should they trust Vladimir Putin, given hes already, multiple times, broken agreements they had with the ukrainians, going back to the minsk accords, back to 1994 when the russians agreed to respect the sovereignty and independence of ukraine . What deal could the ukrainians count on from Vladimir Putin, and why would Vladimir Putin do it with donald trump in the wings . And support for helping ukraine, of course, controversial in the Chaotic Congress that weve been witnessing over the past week. Susan, your new piece for The New Yorker is entitled, mccarthys ouster is proof once again that appeasement does not work. What will work . Well, so far, we have no indication that the two declared candidates for speaker are anywhere closer to 218 votes than mccarthy was. Thats going to be the dynamic over the next week. To your point about ukraine, there is a stark difference between the two candidates. Jim jordan, who has become the candidate of donald trump, clearly a skeptic about ukraine aid, versus steve scalise, the current leader who is looking to move up and to become the speaker. He has been a supporter. I would say that that is really one of the longterm consequences of mccarthys concessions and his vain effort to stay in power. That was a point i wanted to make. Hes made deals that now someone else is going to have to clean up the mess from. One was deciding to take out ukraine money in order to pass the continuing resolution to keep the government temporarily open. I think thats now thrown into question the entire future of ukraine aid in a way its become a condition for the small group of extremists that have sort of thrown the house into turmoil. Even though there is a bipartisan majority in both the house and the senate that support ukraine aid, to me, it looks very murky and unclear what the future of ukraine aid is. Of course, the other concession that mccarthy made, again, it didnt work, was to agree to open an Impeachment Inquiry of joe biden. You know, Somebody Else is going to be left to clean that up. Right. The new yorkers Susan Glasser and peter baker of the New York Times, thank you, both, very much. Richard haass, thank you, as well. A lot going on this morning. Still ahead on morning joe, reality check from across the capital for republican lawmakers deciding who should replace Kevin Mccarthy as speaker. Well show you the warning from senators in both parties for their leaderless colleagues in the house. Plus, the cochair of the Problem Solvers Caucus, congressman Josh Gottheimer will join the conversation. Did democrats do the right thing in not saving mccarthys speakership . Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Reds. With the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. Oh. [dog barks] no its just a bunny only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Conquer financial reports. Conquer 2000word essays. Conquer 300 thankyou notes. Rule over what you write with the smooth writing, longest lasting gel ink pen in america. Do you g2 . 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Those comments come before Donald Trump Endorsed jordan on his platform, calling jordan a, quote, star. Still going to be hard for him to get the votes he needs. Meanwhile, both republican and Democratic Senators are warning their Congressional Colleagues to not elect a more conservative leader. Republican senator thom tillis questioned the idea. So you get more conservative, and that attracts more liberals to work with you on consensus policy, he asked. Those fears are also shared on the oer side of the aisle. Democratic senator Sherrod Brown asked, if the lesson here is you move further to the right to get things done, tha makes no sense. Who comes up with that stuff . I dont understand the logic of that. I know people hate washington when it does stupid things like that. Good point. Very good assessment. If you game this out, what happens is, if you get somebody even more theyre all conservative more intransigent than Kevin Mccarthy, what happens is, you dont pass those appropriation bills. They never get passed. Then at the end, and i saw it time and again, they create these massive Omnibus Spending Bills that conservatives like me always despised. But its a vote up vote down to keep government going. I voted against a lot of them, but, you know, these people thinking that, somehow, theyre going to make things better and theyre going to be true more true blue if they go farther to the right or farther, really, off the cliff, all theyre doing is theyre guaranteeing an Omnibus Spending Bill at the end of the year that theyre going to vote for. Doesnt make sense. Meanwhile, divisions in the house appear to be stretching beyond the republican party. The bipartisan Problem Solvers Caucus may lose several republican members. Theyre considering quitting the group amid frustrations that democrats did not help Kevin Mccarthy keep the speakership, instead, choosing to oust him and going along with every single democrat and matt gaetz and his seven republicans. With us now, cochair of the house Problem Solvers Caucus, democratic congressman, Josh Gottheimer of new jersey. Congressman, thanks so much for being with us. Yeah. I will ask you here morning. Thank you so much for coming. Sorry i couldnt talk to you yesterday, but so great to be able to talk to you today. A lot of people like myself are asking, if you have a Problem Solvers Caucus, wouldnt that be a great time for the Problem Solvers to figure out how to stop the House Of Representatives from vacating the chair for the first time in American History . What do you say . Well, listen, i think if you looked at this challenge, we had, one, Speaker Mccarthy, and we were eager to find a way forward. Im sure you saw what the speaker said, that he ultimately, quote, didnt want to sell his soul to democrats, and that he wouldnt ask for any deal or anything from democrats. Its hard to do a deal with someone who doesnt want to engage, but we certainly tried. Of course, thats the speakers right and his decision to make. Certainly, if you look at the work we did in the last months, its all about bipartisan governing and whether it was the debt ceiling deal, which we worked on together, or, of course, avoiding the Government Shutdown this weekend, thats where bipartisanship, i think, showed the power of it. Yeah, you say that, but, i mean, this is like a big thing. I mean, History Books will talk about this. A house in such dysfunction that but, joe, you really have to ousting a speaker for the first time in American History. Again, you guys didnt have to support Kevin Mccarthy. By the way joe i dont you could have voted present. It just seems to me that you were told by Hakeem Jeffries that all democrats had to fall in line. Instead of being a Problem Solver, you just fell in line with the rest of the democratic party. Is that an unfair assessment . That is totally, i think, not a fair picture at all of what happened. One, i just said, we tried to figure out a way forward where we can encourage more bipartisanship on the floor, allow more of the democratic priorities to get to the floor. Of course, i think we would have found a way forward with the speaker. He wasnt interested in that, so it is hard to do that in those circumstances. Again, that was his decision. Secondly, you know this, joe, because you were there, picking the speaker is a family decision, based on that party. Im not invited to that. They make the decision. When you were in congress, you werent voting for dick. And i think ask i asked, would you vote for nancy pelosi but youre a Problem Solver. Youre a Problem Solvers Caucus. Youre now talking joe youre now talking like a partisan, where youre saying, its a family business. Im sure that no. There were several times i crossed the aisle. Several times you stood up and didnt vote for Newt Gingrich . Lets be clear about this. The decision of speaker arksz as you know, as were seeing, is a caucus, a respected caucus decision of the majority party. However, if you look at the record of actual bipartisanship when it comes to policymakers, were always at the table. Im working right now on two things. Were working with a group of us to make sure we dont shut the government down in 38 days, protect our veterans, families, and seniors, which i think is absolutely critical to avoid that shutdown. Right. Also, i think we need to come together and change the rules of the house so one person cant vacate the chair. By the way, this is a fight i had several years ago with the Problem Solvers Caucus. We came together and changed the rules. Of course, Kevin Mccarthy, you know, matt gaetz insisted on this, changed it back to a one vote to vacate the chair. We have to change it back. Thatll take us coming together and, of course, ensuring we as democrats find more ways to get parties to the table and work in a bipartisan manner. Thats how washington works, bipartisanship. It sounds like youre saying im a Problem Solver except on the Biggest Issue of all. Let me just say, if my choice was voting for Dick Gephardt or voting for im not turning the house over for freaks. Its about being an institutionalist. Ill say, its like john roberts. John roberts, im sure, didnt want to go along with the Affordable Care act, but he was not going to overturn the Affordable Care act because it would have undermined the institution of the Supreme Court of the United States. So i understand why i understand. By the way, we you were okay with let me finish what im saying. Let me finish what im saying. We knock Kevin Mccarthy around all the time. I dont want to have people misunderstand what im saying. I dont know what i would have done if i were in your position. I dont know. I probably would have voted the way you voted, but im still asking the question. Whats more important, the institution or Kevin Mccarthys gross failings as a leader . So i think, one, you have to put the blame here where it goes, which is the extreme eight in his own party who refuse to support him. We have to put that on the tae. Leaving that out is a gla thing. Secondly, i was very willing and worked to try to find a deal that we could Work Together, where we could get more bipartisan priorities to the floor with the speaker. As he said after the vote, and you cant leave this out, he said, quote, he didnt want to sell his soul to democrats. In his mind, working together for the institution was not worth the price of having to work with democrats on more bipartisan governing, getting the priorities to the floor, wasnt working for him. I dont begrudge him of that. But leaving him out of the decision is ridiculous. He wouldnt ask for anything from democrats. You cant work with somebody who doesnt want to work with you, and that is a difficult thing. You know that, right . So it wasnt as if we didnt try. I tried for days. All of us tried for weeks to try to find a deal. That was his decision. Again, i dont begrudge him that. I also understand the Problem Solvers Caucus, we have a Phenomenal Group of democrats and republicans, incredible people. Were going to keep working together. This is a highly emotional time. We need to focus on the most important thing, making sure our government doesnt shut down in 38 days and hurt our veterans, families, children, and our seniors. That is the most important priority. And we also have to change the rules of the house, but thatll take both sides coming together, both sides giving a little to encourage bipartisan governing. Thats how this place works. Thats how he did it this weekend to avoid a Government Shutdown. We avoided the debt ceiling crisis, workedveterans, chips, i worked with susan collins. You did it by both sides giving a little. You cant leave that out, joe, of the question youre asking me, which is, should The Other Side give or not . Im not leaving that out. I talk all the time about how there has been more bipartisan compromise over the past couple years than there has been for most of this century. Im not leaving that out at all. I think we what we keep talking past each other on is, you keep talking about Kevin Mccarthy not wanting to deal with the democrats. What im asking is, if he is acting like an idiot, do you focus on the idiot, or do you focus on the institution . I would suggest that as you approach this, and, again, i may have voted the way you voted if i were in your position, so so many Different Things to consider. So many things to consider. Hes done so many offensive things. But the question is, do you focus on the idiot or the institution . Doesnt really matter if Kevin Mccarthy wants to deal with democrats or not. Its a great question. Go ahead. It is a great question. The institution is bigger than Kevin Mccarthy or any individual speaker. Now, that would be my answer on that, its bigger than that, and you have to have a partner you can work with. Now, the key, i think, look back all you want. Im looking forward. We have to change the rules of the house to make sure one person cant vacate the chair. Its what we actually had before. The Problem Solvers Caucus are the ones who changed that rule. It was changed back, bowing to the extremists in this congress. Thats the key. Also, working together to avoid a Government Shutdown. That has to be our focus. Right. Its what im already talking to colleagues about, and were going to Work Together and get that done. Thats our number one job right now. Do you think the republicans, some of the republicans are going to quit . No, i dont think so. Listen, people are upset, and i get that. You should have seen the conversation after january 6th. There were some very hot emotional conversations, rightly so. Right . This is what happens. People, of course, feel strongly about it. Our job, we dont agree on everything, but we try to talk through it, work through it together, and figure out how we can get a solution that most of us agree on. If a few folks, you know, leave, thats what theyre choosing, i totally respect them for that. Im confident based on my conversations the last couple days well get back in the room and work on the views critical to the country. All right. Josh, thank you so much. Thank you. You know thanks for coming on. I appreciate and i respect what you do. Really grateful. Thank you. Thanks for coming on today. Viewers watching going, oh, joe is no, i dont know what i would do. I dont have the voting card. I didnt go through this day in and day out like josh did and like other members did. Were just asking the question. Josh, thank you so much for being with us. Yeah. I hope youll come back soon. Anytime, thanks. T. J. Just pressed the theres a delay. There he is. Okay. Theres a delay. All right. Thank you, josh. Greatly appreciate it. So, donny, i know a lot of people dont understand the questions im asking, maybe some do, but, you know, im a big believer that, like, im a burkian conservative. Edmund burke who is like, you have to protect institutions. That radicals can tear it down in one day, what took two centuries to build up. An institution that took two centuries to build up. People are like, i dont like Kevin Mccarthy because of this. I totally get that. I do worry, though, im far less concerned about republicans looking bad than i am about institutions, american institutions looking weak in the eyes of our enemies and the eyes of our friends and the eyes of the world and, right now, Richard Haass will tell you, the world thinks that while were i was talking to a diplomat a couple of nights ago. He said, you guys are so powerful economically. Youre so powerful militarily. If you could get your i wont say the word if you could get your stuff together politically, we would stop dividing our investments between china and the United States and india. Wed dump all of our money in microsoft, in amazon, in american tech stocks. We would be all in in the United States. This was before the institution collapsed. Again, its the republicans fault. I get its the republicans fault. Is there space to go, im not here to help Kevin Mccarthy, but im here to protect the institution i swore an oath and allegiance to. I thought it was an interesting exchange, joe. I think that the fact that what the democrats also lost in that is you cant just now point the finger and thats the other party that did the destruction. Its the party that doesnt care about things, is breaking down our institutions. You lost a little there. To me, also something i know you mentioned that jim jordan probably wont get on, but the fact that he is being discussed, the devil, you know. I was not sitting in glee after that happened with Kevin Mccarthy. Yeah. Not only does it take down the institution, it opens up the door for something even worse. The fact were talking about jim jordan as speaker of the house is giving me chills. I dont think anyone was sitting in glee. Yeah, they were. Really . Oh, my god, yeah. No. Yeah, democrats were. There were a lot of democrats sitting in glee, Speaker Mccarthy go down. You should go online more. It seems willie, i always say, again, these are ugly truths. I say for people who think, it cant get worse after Vladimir Putin, arent paying attention. Not comparing Kevin Mccarthy. Kevin mccarthy to Vladimir Putin. I guess just the conservative in me, the conservative, things can always get worse, right . Yeah. So you protect institutions. You are a conservative. You conserve. So i understand all this, but we are now having discussions because Kevin Mccarthy was run out. We are now having discussions about ukraine funding and how ukraine may not get funding this year from the United States. Because maybe jim jordan for Somebody Else that takes over the house, and all appropriations, all checks start in the House Of Representatives. They write the check, and the Senate Approves it and it goes on to the white house. Yeah. I understand congressman gottheimers argument. I understand what democrats are saying. Its not our job to fix republicans problems. They made their bed, they have to sleep in it. But if the complaints about Kevin Mccarthy was that he opened an Impeachment Inquiry or allowed it to be opened, that he was too close to donald trump, well, now, if it is jim jordan and, as you say, it remains to be seen if he or anybody else can get to the 217, which is the number for this, well see how he gets there but jim jordan is one of the people leading the impeachment march. Yeah. He was one of the people leading the attempted coup against the government. Endorsed. Helping, buttressing, Jonathan Lemire, the arguments made by donald trump and working inside game to try to flip the 2020 election. Thats the guy who could be now at the head of the table. Yeah, this is a classic case of two things can be true at once. Democrats the last couple days are furious at the suggestion they should have saved Kevin Mccarthy. They say, this is not our problem. They point to deal after deal after deal that mccarthy took back his word, that he broke his promises. They dont feel like he was a trustworthy partner. There arent many people sad to see him go. Jonathan, who do they think is going to be better . Thats the second part of two things being true at once. Who do they think is going to be better . Nobody. They dont like Kevin Mccarthy, so theyre going to get jim jordan . I mean, youve got to be realistic here. Who do they think . Name the person thats going to be better than Kevin Mccarthy. Well, thats the second part of this. That crazy caucus. [ laughter ] comma. Part two. Yes, they also recognize, though, that they dont know whats coming. There is worry. I think most democrats i speak to think scalise would be a little more reasonable than jordan. Scalise has sounded at least some notes, lets say, on one example, ukraine, that it is important for the u. S. To stand against russia. There are also people doing vote counts here. They dont think either man can get there. Trump showing up next week, if he does that, if he goes to the capitol, yes, maybe that solidifies some on the far right. The mainstream republicans in the biden districts, thatll make their vote that seems unlikely. So theres a scenario here that the eventual speaker is someone were not even talking about right now, and democrats are looking around and saying its going to be him or her, but they recognize the dangers ahead. They dont feel like they were the ones who needed to save mccarthy. They point to the republicans to say, you did this. This is your mess. Well what a mess. Eight republicans voted to vacate the chair and over 200 democrats did. You can sort that out any way you want, and ill just say again im just sitting here as an institutionalist. If i were in the democrats position sitting there day in and day out, i may have done the same thing. The problem though is, again, the problem is you have an institution that faces an uncertain future, even more uncertain now. Yeah. Because of the devil you dont know. Or just not getting the votes for person after person and having nobody there. And you have ukrainians right now fighting for their very lives, looking at whats happening in the house, and they are, understanding that things may be going from bad to worse there as well. So you dont you just dont know whats going to happen there. So the doc severinson and donnie deutch, thank you. Thats it for you. Well see you later. Coming up on morning joe, well dive back into the action at the border from the Biden Administration and the pressure to slow the number of migrants crossing into the u. S. And well take a look at the impact of a migrant surge in chicago. Nbcs Julia Ainsley has that report for us next on morning joe. Jack wants to know something. Yeah. He was just texting from school. Jack was just texting, papa, papa. What does uncle willie have on sunday today . What do you have planned . Your sweet, adopted italian boy is going to love this. 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Skip the hassels and sell directly to opendoor. woman bingo. vo get your competitive offer at opendoor dot com. It was appropriated for the border wall. I tried to get them to reappropriate or redirect that money. They didnt and they wouldnt, and theres nothing under the law that says they have to use the money for that. I cant stop that. Did you make the border wall worse . No. That was President Biden addressing the news that his administration will expand former president Donald Trumps wall on the Mexican Border and start deporting thousands of venezuelans who unlawfully entered the country. The two moves are seen as a reversal by the white house that is under intense political pressure to stop the growing number of migrants entering the country illegally. Notably the white hou has facedincreasing criticism from Democratic Leaders who say the influx of migrants is overwhelming their resources to assist them. One of the cities feeling the pressure, chicago, where officials there say resources are running thin. For more on that, lets bring in msnbc National Security reporter Julia Ainsley. Whats happening in chicago . I just got back from chicago, mika, where Community Leaders say theyre eager to help migrants, but theyre worried because the city was in a housing crisis. Theyre dealing with thousands of homeless chicagoans, and homeless children, and they have an influx of 17,000 migrants with 1,200 per day still arriving on buses from texas. Of course, this was begun by Texas Governor greg abbott offering free buses to cities like chicago saying hes going to continue to do this until biden secures the border. Now theyre worried about getting ready and having enough housing for chicagoans and migrants as those cold winter months come to chicago. Heres what we learned. Reporter officials warning chicago is approaching a breaking point. Tents full of desperate migrants lining chicagos iconic lake shore drive. Migrants inside ohare airport. A total of 17,000 migrants showing up since last august, and officials expect 1,200 per day to keep coming. Now chicago is building sprawling tent camps to get rid of places like this ahead of the cold winter months. J. B. Prisker slamming President Biden saying, the federal governments lack of intervention and coordination at the border has created an untenable situation in illinois. The government says theyve accelerated work permits and provided A Billion Dollars to cities nationwide. I dont want them there. Reporter but protests here are going. To have the government come in and dump 300 people right next door to me, it is not fair. Reporter this latino neighborhood was the first to build a shelter for migrants and theyre preparing to build a shelter for up to 1,000 more. Communities here say they want to help migrants, but theyre worried for poor chicagoans too. Im concerned because theres a low response for the federal and statement government. When winter comes, not only will you have enough room for migrants who might not have enough room to take in some Homeless People who live on the streets here in pillson, american citizens . Absolutely. Reporter we met these migrants sleeping outside a police station. Stephanie tells us she boarded a free bus in texas because she thought chicago had a refugee camp. Some of us have been here weeks, she said. She told us shes desperate for a job to support her 1yearold son back in venezuela. Now i saw migrants sleeping on the floor in the lobbies of police stations and parks, really desperate for places to find, even sleeping outside in the rain the night before we got there with no shelter over them, and willie, dhs had an Assessment Team on the ground there yesterday meeting with city officials to talk about what they could do to help the city with this crisis. The chief letting those immigrants who might be eligible to work go ahead and a pli for that Work Authorization to get them working legally. Some i spoke to said theyre working in the underground economy just trying to make money to make not ends meet, but just find enough food really. Such a fascinating report on the ground. It speaks to the extent of the problem that the democratic governor of illinois, an ally of joe biden in the white house is going so public with his criticism of the administration. Nbcs Julia Ainsley continuing her outstanding reporting on this issue. Julia, thank you so much. The migrant crisis is the subject of a new documentary film from msnbc films surrounding an incident last year, youll remember, when Florida Governor ron desantis orchestrated the movement of 50 migrants who crossed into texas who were then flown to Marthas Vineyard, an island in massachusetts with promises of a new life. Last year, the bear county sheriff in texas launched a criminal investigation after hearing what happened. Now that case is headed to a grand jury. Earlier this summer, the District Attorney for Marthas Vineyard called for the Justice Department to investigate. Here now, a look at that new documentary from msnbc films titled Marthas Vineyard versus desantis. Florida Governor Ron Desantis taking credit for sending airplanes carrying migrants to Marthas Vineyard. There comes a point when a political stunt exploits a humanitarian crisis. [ speaking in a global language ] this was extremely deliberate. These people were handpicked. Its clear that the motive was not anything other than advancing a political agenda. Marthas vineyard v. Desantis, part of the turning point documentary series. Joining us now, the directors of the documentary that premieres this weekend, oscarnominated filmmakers and longtime residents of Marthas Vineyard. Its great to have you here. Congratulations on the film. Kate, as i said, you two live on Marthas Vineyard, so you are oscarnominated filmmakers who happen to have a personal story to tell. Tell us about the view from Marthas Vineyard, from residents as these migrants arrived. Well, you know, Marthas Vineyard folks came, especially the yearround population, the migrants landed in september last year, and they came out in droves and brought clothing and food and welcomed these people in, and that was very contrary to the to the story that desantis was putting out there. Yeah. I think the expectation from desantis was that the people of Marthas Vineyard be outraged and not my backyard, and thats not what happened. They wanted to paint us as liberals and white, and theyd never seen brown people on the island, right . Tucker carlson picked that up, but the truth is Marthas Vineyard, except for july and august, when its full of a lot of rich, white democrats, it is an incredibly diverse island, right . With a native American Population going back centuries, and a primary African American town oak bluffs, and then a huge brazilian population. The second language on the island is brazilian portuguese. Tell us about The Other Side of the story, the experiences of the migrants who were there. In talking to them, tell us about what they had been through, and how they felt about the reception they received on the island. They were you will see in the film that they first of all, had just finished a harrowing, lifethreatening journey and weve all heard about the gap. There were all kinds of specifics that are forming characters who are young cousins who returned to the vineyard. They experienced extraordinary kind of deathdefying encounters, and people by the time they were misled by, you know, undercover sort of agents set up by desantis, they landed completely unaware of where they were. They were disoriented. They were traumatized. Many of them were wounded, and they didnt know where they were, you know, if that answers the question, until they were taken in by people and put up in the church. So david, what has been the experience of those 49 migrants that captured a lot of Media Attention for a couple of weeks, and its been a year now. Whats it been like for them . They started out deeply traumatized. Theyve come from venezuela, and they land in Marthas Vineyard and they find themselves manipulated by a government official. It was incredibly retraumatizing for these people. Its very really underappreciated how much these people had their heads messed with. Desantis promised them jobs and housing and they get there, and he didnt have the courtesy to tell people on the vineyard were coming. So thats a fact . Other people disputed and said the vineyard had no idea. I know Dylan Fernandez who is the seat representative. I know the people who ran the homeless shelter. A phone call would have been all it would take and nothing. Desantis, the only person he alerted was a news crew so that he could get the footage out and, you know, strut his stuff to look like a tough guy, but the vineyard, theyve dispersed. Some have returned to the vineyard and theyre profiled in the film and the rest are scattered around massachusetts living in this limbo where migrants unfortunately have been consigned by and i hate to im a democrat, so i hate to diss my own party, but through enormous lack of leadership, and i think it is that lack of coherent political dialogue that created a vacuum which desantis exploited, but in a way that when you see the film through really devious criminal means, this wasnt just a prank that everybody thought it was when it went down. Has there been another wave of migrants to come through, but were it to be a political opportunity, how do you think they would respond . I think the vineyard would they say two things there. One is bring it on, well help them if it happens again, but they certainly hope that this would never happen. It was deeply dehumanizing. It was for the people involved. I mean, each one of these migrants is a human being. They have theyve left kids. Theyve left family, and they came here out of desperation, and we cant deal with this National Issue by, you know, treating them like chess pieces. Yeah. I think this really this film puts a human face to something that became sort of a salacious scandal, but these are real people with real lives. Yeah. Who were thrust into a place they had no idea they were being dropped, but it has to be said as well that Marthas Vineyard showed its best and shined when they did arrive. The documentary airs this sunday, 10 00 p. M. Eastern on msnbc. Also streaming on peacock. The filmmakers, thanks both for being here. Thanks for having us. Our third hour of morning joe continues right now. Several months ago, a Foreign Policy expert on the International Level went to advise donald trump, and three times he asked about the use of Nuclear Weapons. Three times he asked at one point, if we have them, why cant we use them . Thats oh, wow. One of the reasons why he doesnt have Foreign Policy experts around him. Trump asked three times three times in an hour briefing, why cant we use Nuclear Weapons . From wondering about the use of Nuclear Weapons to stealing war plans, to reportedly spilling secrets about Nuclear Submarines, donald trump has a long history of problematic behavior with intelligence, classified intelligence. Well have more on that new reporting nuclear. Nuclear intelligence, willie. That and his love of autocrats is kind of a bad mix. I mean, we all remember that disturbing time when we said he was illfit, but this guy has been reckless with intelligence from the very beginning. I mean, one of his first visitors in the white house he had he had the Foreign Minister of russia and the Russian Ambassador to the United States and what did he do . He spilled classified secrets that we got from another country. He had no reporters in there, no u. S. Reporters there, but had, you know, russian probably russian spies posing as reporters inside the white house. Hes just just reckless and dangerous, but weve known that for, well, six, seven years. Yeah. We shouldnt lower the bar for reckless, dangerous, outrageous. Its all of those things, but as you say its also completely unsurprising. This reporting that well get into from abc news and the New York Times about him talking about Nuclear Submarines with an australian businessman at maralago fits because it comes in the postpresident ial time when we know now that he had documents, classified documents hidden in the bathroom and tucked away all around maralago. Also the patio at maralago strikes again. Remember right after he became president , he was sitting out there with the japanese Prime Minister when north korea launched a test rocket, and he was just talking openly as the membership sat around about what he had just heard, what he knew and huddling with steve bannon and mike flynn on the patio. Outrageous, yes. Surprising, no. These arent things that, again, are just, like, ah, dont worry about it. No. No president this is no president would do this. Other than donald trump, and so again, i remain just absolutely ill try to be ill try to be emotionally level on this. Fascinated by the fact that people are still willing to vote for a guy that steals Nuclear Secrets, takes them to his beach club, steals war plans, takes them to his beach club, and now in this case, talks the specifics about our Nuclear Submarines and talks about how close we can get to Russian Nuclear subs. I mean, this is the sort of information that russian spies would die to get, and that our spies would risk their lives to get from other countries, and Donald Trumps just sitting there at maralago blabbing it and then this guy goes around and tells maybe 20 more people. Yeah. Oh, which is a whole other problem. Also ahead on morning joe, republican congressman jim jordan picked up a big endorsement in his bid to become House Speaker, but one prominent republican is warning the party about what could happen if he gets the gavel. Along with joe, willie, and me, on this friday morning, we have the host of way too early, Jonathan Lemire, sam stein, and president amer tus, richard haas. We have the different legal cases and the different ways that he is trying to drag these cases out, but well start with and we also have very fascinating polls and Jonathan Lemire, i want to go to you briefly on this. Theres been one poll after another poll that shows theyre absolutely bashing democrats when it comes to issues. In fact, gallup had a poll where they reported the largest gap between republicans and democrats since they started taking these polls, and despite the fact republicans have a massive lead, we always go how could people still go along and Republicans Go along with donald trump . I mean, a lot of them arent. Despite the fact that democrats are minus 20, minus 25, even minus 30 on, like, polls on who do you trust more to take care of the economy . Both parties are not liked or trusted by 56 , 57 , 58 of the population, and joe biden in the latest poll thats out among likely voters beating donald trump by three points. Its amazing the advantage republicans have or two points. That republicans have going into this election on the issues. Yes. And yet donald trump keeps dragging them down. No, theyre saddled with this trump issue and if they had any other candidate there, i think there would be real alarm among democrats in the white house about what these polls are showing. We just ticked through that university poll. The Top Line Shows Trump and biden, biden up slightly. Within the margin of error. Its a tight race. We know that. Its issues like inflation, economy, immigration. These are 25, nearly 30point margins. Creating jobs. Huge, huge numbers. The other way, democrats as you might expect, trusted more on climate change, abortion policy, health care, medicare, and the like, but elections so often, joe, as you well know are decided on the economy, and these with big Warning Signs here, and certainly there have been Swing State Voters particularly among suburban voters who dislike trump immensely, but still really disapprove of how this white house has handled the economy. The white house thinks this can change. They say things are Getting Better and they think that narrative will change come next year. Do we really think do we think thats going to change . They think the narrative is going to change. Economists the economists, willie, are still saying, that hey. We may be headed for a hard landing. The economists are saying, Interest Rates may continue to go up right now. The white house, i think theyre starting to realize theyve made a really bad mistake with this bidenomics rollout, and reportedly joe biden was against that and they went ahead with it anyway. Its not working. You cant convince people the economys going great when they dont feel like the economys going great, even though our economy is going a hell of a lot better than any other countrys. Yeah, and the idea its just narrative doesnt work for voters either. Why arent you listening to our story that were telling you that things are going well . Maybe in my life, things cost too much, and thats usually the answer you hear, and usually that was the concern when they went with the bidenomics. They said, you now own everything about the economy and thats what republicans are using. Right, and that rebrand hasnt worked at all to this point, and numbers can be what the numbers are, but perception is different and voters will probably cast their ballots based on the perception, and immigration and other issues that joe hammers on a lot here is a real problem for democrats and the poll reflects it and were seeing the Biden Administration doing an aboutface on a couple of issues, a deportation of venezuelan migrants. Some of it is because they have to because of a funding issue, but its a nod to vulnerability too. If republicans had anyone other than donald trump at the top of the ticket, there would be real worries, but even with trump, this will be close and there are Warning Signs for the white house. All the polls that i have seen in the swing states are just really tight. Whether youre looking at pennsylvania, wisconsin, or michigan, the internal polls show these candidates close. Not so close in georgia. Trump actually from the internal polls, ive seen trump as moving ahead in georgia right now. So a long way to go. Were just talking though about the problems right now that all sides are facing. That said, because its such a long time to go, i, you know, im the one to say here, you can talk a year out about who youre going to vote for, who youre not going to vote for. Im against the incumbent, but when you get in that voting booth, things change, but its hard to check off, and donald trump says he wants the chairman of the joint chiefs executed and he wants to ban tv stations he doesnt like, and he says horrific things and jokes about 82yearold people getting their heads bashed in. Sam stein, one underlying issue that again, even a week out from the 2022 races nobody was talking about because it was showing up at 3 , 4 , 5 in the polls, taking womens right to choose away. It proved to be a firestorm, and on election day, 35 of voters said that abortion was a huge issue. Things havent gotten better since then. Ron desantis in the state of florida has enacted a sixweek ban since the 2022 midterms. He won that huge, huge landslide and then did that. And then passed a sixweek ban that has republicans some of the biggest supporters of republicans financially saying, thats way too radical. We cant go along with that. Theres so many crosscurrents right now. You would usually say its the economy, stupid, but because of donald trump and because of some really extreme policies, you know, like in michigan, swing state. An 1849 ban. An abortion ban. I mean, its leveling the Playing Field for democrats when democrats should be down ten points. Yeah, and you know who thinks this could be kryptonite for republicans is donald trump, right . Donald trump is out there publicly saying that this is a bad issue for republicans, that they should not be embracing sixweek bans. Hes reluctantly said he would embrace harsh Abortion Legislation himself and touted the fact that hes responsible for the three Supreme Court justices that ended roe, but hes also been very up front about what he thinks of the political costs of it and hes moved away from it. Thats a factor obviously, and obviously will be in 2024, and look. I mean, were so far out, right . Were, what . 14 months. Its hard to divide based on polls. What we have seen which is given some democratic optimism is the special Election Results which have often seen democrats outperform historical margins and expectations. Now will that portend anything for 2024 . Who knows . Its so far out, and the economy could take another twist or turn. I completely agree with jonathan and willie, like, the bidenomics rebrand, really bad, potentially fatal. You dont want to be owning an economy where people dont think its going well for them, and it centers the economy on biden and not on the people which a lot of democrats had been worried about, but we have just so much time and so many different concurrent issues that i think we have need to take a bit of a breath, you know . Up next, richard haas reacts to the new report that donald trump openly spilled Nuclear Submarine secrets to an australian businessman. He told other people across the world. Thats ahead on morning joe. Thanks, guy. Uy limu emu doug [bell ringing] and doug says, you can customize and save hundreds on Car Insurance with liberty mutual. he hits his mark center stage and is crushed by a baby grand piano. Are you replacing me . With this guy . Customize and save with liberty bibberty. He doesnt even have a mustache oh, look a bibu. 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I stole them from an airport. Its always something with you, man. Great solid greek salad . Exactly dont delay the game with verizon or tmobile 5g Home Internet. Catch it on the xfinity 10g network. So here are the details of that new reporting on trump and Nuclear Secrets. Former President Donald Trump reportedly shared Classified Information about american Nuclear Submarines and their capabilities. Oh my god. Some of the most protected secrets. With an australian businessman, who then allegedly shared the information with more than a dozen foreign officials. Sources familiar with the matter tell abc news. Meanwhile two sources tell the New York Times that trumps disclosures potentially endangered the u. S. Nuclear fleet. The businessman, Anthony Pratt is a member at maralago who discussed the submarines with trump in april, 2021. Great. According to the times, former president revealed two pieces of critical information about the submarines tactical capabilities including how many Nuclear Warheads the vessels carried and how close they could get to their russian counterparts without being detected. Its just its just staggering. At what point do we stop this . At what point do people stop voting for somebody who helps the russians . To help russia. They describe trumps remarks to at least 45 other people including six journalists, 11 of his companys employees, 10 australian officials, and 3 former australian Prime Ministers. Why didnt you just go on the Joe Rogan Show dude . How damaging is this information outside the scif . Lets give people a little bit of background here, joe. You have levels of classification. Top secret, and at the level of top secret, you have what are called compartments and when i was in government in the middle east some time ago, you had more than 1,000 compartments and the whole idea was to restrict access to the most Sensitive Information to those who literally had a need to know. Stuff intelligence dealing with submarines is among the most protected information just because of their importance to american strategic deterrence, to stability more broadly. So the idea that this kind of information was widely shared, this is the kind of stuff at a minimum, you strip people of their Security Clearances and at worst, you prosecute them. So this is just irresponsibility on steroids. In addition that gives potentially russians all sorts of insights at the capabilities on our part, vulnerabilities on their part, and imagine youre a friendly government. Australia, israel, others. What is the willingness to share Sensitive Information with us . This has a Chilling Effect on our ability to work with our allies and partners. At the same time, its a gift to our adversaadversaries. You have to say this was in April Of 2021 which is when those boxes of classified documents were stuffed in every corner of maralago. In other words not a oneoff. Exactly. A pattern. Thats what i was going to say. This is not an exception. This is the rule, and this is part of a pattern of irresponsibility of negligence and essentially lawbreaking, and dealing with some of the Sensitive National security secret that is we own. So richard, the whats the fallout now with this legislation in the National Community . How does this scramble what the u. S. Needs to know or protect and be aware of . Australias an ally, but not everyone this guy spoke to may have been. I would expect foreign governments are looking at what they might have shared under the Trump Presidency, trying to do a bit of a damage assessment. Yeah. I imagine certain stuff was shared with us, and could reach other countries. What might that mean . The navy, what difference does this make . What was shared if it reached the russians . What would be the tactical or strateic consequences of that information . I dont have access to this information. When i was in government, i dont need to know this sort of thing. I was restricted to people in the military, in the Intelligence Community dealing with this type of military involvement. This is not, you know, the average no diplomat would have access to this. You didnt need to know it. So sam, the just to get on the record here, the trump people say the story lacks proper context. Unclear what the context is under which you would talk about the capabilities of Nuclear Submarines with an australian businessman on the patio at maralago. Provide some context please. Yeah. The context is what was on the menu that night, what they were eating, the appetizers, yeah. We need to know that. Clearly. No. I cant get by Richards Point that, you know, anyone else lower than trump, if they had done this, right . Imagine someone who had unique access to this, a staffer, and went about spilling this, we would be looking at a prosecution, right . The double standards or the different standards i should say that trump is held to are not just political, right . A lot of democrats are out there saying, if joe biden were to have done this or Hillary Clinton were to have done this, we would never stop hearing about this. Thats probably true, and we heard a lot about email servers, but the real double standard is, you know, trump and people below him, and he does things that other people would be prosecuted or fired for, but he and his staff dismiss this saying, well, that lacks context or hes the president , he can do it and so on and so forth. And, you know, its thats whats striking to me. Maybe richard could elaborate on that. What could happen if the staffer was caught revealing these types of secrets . How could that be handled by prosecutors . Thats easy. In the short run, you would lose all access to any classified documents. You would lose access to your computer and your job. At best, you would be on administrative leave, and an investigation would be begun by the Security Services at some point. It would be handed over to the Justice Department and weve seen this. This is what happens to people who are either reckless with Classified Information and in some cases that actively handed it over to others. This is not a gray area. This is pretty black or white. I mean, its pretty black and white, and you look back again and look at officials who have done so for less. Look at general patraeus. One of the reasons he said he didnt select him for Secretary Of State is because he had Classified Information on his laptop. Nothing like this, nothing like Nuclear Secrets and he wouldnt let him be Secretary Of State because it was offensive to the other generals who were working with him. You look at sandy berger, again, nothing close to Nuclear Secrets or nuclear war plans. No. You look at director deutch of the cia. These are all people who took things that richard richard, i mean, will tell you well, well below Nuclear Secrets because Nuclear Secrets are some of the most protected secrets. You think about lets say that general mattis had leaked information or blabbed information about war plans, Nuclear Secrets, or nuclear subs. He would have been prosecuted. He probably would have spent time in jail, and thats whats so irritating about republicans talking about double standards. Nobody nobody has lived by a double standard and been given a wider berth than donald trump, and heres yet another example of it. This would send any of those people straight to jail. Yes. Yeah, and it has sent people to jail for much less, and it is this bigger idea as you say, of Grading Donald Trump on a curve. Why does he get a pass on this stuff when no one else would . Why did Republicans Go, oh, yeah. He thinks that general milley should be executed. Thats just him popping off. Its donald being donald. Theyve moved the window so far that they excuse almost everything, and theres an important point to make here. Everything. This isnt just a fascinating story or a curiosity. This information according to the New York Times and abc news intersects with jack smith, the Special Counsels investigation. Right. Which may now call Anthony Pratt, this australian businessman, as a witness in the documents case against donald trump displaying further how cavalier he was with Classified Information around maralago. All right. Coming up, new legal developments in five five separate cases involving the former president including a claim from trumps legal team that hes immune from federal charges related to Election Interference. Oh, wait. Hold on a second. We have a ruling coming down. Did he get a vaccine . Denied. Morning joe will be right back. Denied. Morning joe will be right back the new Subway Mvp Rewards earns you points when you order. Superbowl mvps really do get all the perks . Im talking about subway mvp. Its a way bigger deal. Do you get a trophy for that . I wish. Get rewarded like an mvp. Join now and get 50 any footlong. When moderate to Severe Ulcerative Colitis takes you off course. Put it in check with rinvoq, a oncedaily pill. When i wanted to see results fast, rinvoq delivered rapid Symptom Relief and helped leave bathroom urgency behind. Check. When uc tried to slow me down. I got lasting, steroidfree remission with rinvoq. Check. 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They are giants in what they do because they work in a place where they can grow. Where they can learn the skills to build careers as powerful as the beasts they forge. We build giants. Because it takes one to build one. I wasnt very good with words, and im not very good with words and i let all my expressions and my love and my pain and my anger come out in my melodies. I had someone to write my words for me, and without him, the journey would not have been possible. I kind of feel cheating standing up here accepting this because without bernie, there wouldnt have been any elton john at all. [ applause ] and i would like him to come up and i would like to give this to him. [ cheers and applause ] a remarkable moment in the 1994 rock n roll hall of fame inductions. That was elton john of course, honoring the man whose words gave life to his melodies. From the farmhouse in the english countryside to the glitzy heights of rock n roll stardom, his journey is as remarkable as the lyrics he penned. This november, bernie is set to join the ranks of the rock and roll hall of fame for his musical excellence. With us now to talk about his memoir scattershot life, music and me, the english song writer and lyricist, bernie taupin. Thank you for having me. I feel like i should be wearing the tshirt that Stella Mccartney wore when they inducted Paul Mccartney into the rock n roll hall of fame. I cant use all of the words her but it says, about blanking time. I got it. I have to say i was absolutely shocked when i was reading your book to find out you werent in the hall of fame. Thats crazy. Well, i think you probably would join a large group of people there, but i think a lot of it had to do with the fact that certain individuals felt that because elton had given me his award, that automatically made me a member of the hall of fame. So i think there was some resistance over the years, but hey. Thats all water under the bridge. Im happy to join the club. There are so many songs i want to ask you about, but i want to ask you about this book. What was it like staring at blank sheets of paper and saying, im going to write about myself now . The main thing that i felt was that i did not want to write a linear sort of memoir. I didnt want it to be a to z. That would have pretty much bored me i think, and besides im not very good at recollections of times and dates and where things land in my sort of story. I felt it was more interesting to just head into things at any particular point in time. Whatever happened to sort of fall into my lap that particular day, i was writing. Like my songs, everything came very quickly. It was like being on the couch and sort of psychoanalyzing myself for my entire life, and i think at 73 years old,it seems like a good time to reminisce. Wouldnt you think . Yeah. I need to do that myself. So i was so excited to hear about the book because i grew up with you, but i really didnt know that much about you until i opened up this book. Really, i was always curious about your relationship with elton john and your songwriting relationship and you hear about lennon and mccartney and they were stuck in a hotel room together for six years and you were together all the time. Its the opposite with you and your songwriting partner. I love the imagery. You said the coin was flipped, but we were opposite sides of the coin. Talk about that, how once things blew up, you kind of went your separate ways. Well as the old adage goes, opposites attract, but in the early days we were joined at the hip. We were writing in his mothers apartment in the years between 1967 and 1971. I mean, even after we came to the United States in 1970 and even sort of played at the troubadour and everybody thought we exploded then. There was a lot of work to come after that. We went back from the troubadour to england to bunk beds in his mothers apartment and it was like a mini building. I would be writing lyrics in the bedroom and hed be in the front room at the standup piano hammering out melodies, but time went on and we developed our own individual lives and we did split apart, but the music still bound us, and we were still the best of friends as we are to this day. If you will, tell the story about your song. I mean, you wrote the song that people will be singing the words to long after were both gone. You wrote it, like, in, like, 15 minutes. It takes some people longer to eat a ham sandwich than it took you to write the lyrics to an eternal classic. Well, you know, its interesting if youve seen the movie or if your listeners or viewers have seen the movie rocket man, the one although that movie for the most part is very much a fantasy, there are several scenes in it that are very realistic and true to life, and the scene in that when were in eltons apartment having breakfast and im sort of scribbling some lyrics and i hand them to him, and he says, these have got egg on them, and thats exactly what happened. It was so right on. It was almost just thoughts from a very, very naive individual from sort of his romantic aspirations and thats why it has all those sort of pregnant pauses in it that makes it more quirky than the normal love ballad, and elton took it into the next room and came up with the melody very quickly. So thats its not particularly interesting. I mean, thats how it happened, and the fact that its become sort of this universal classic is icing on the cake i guess. I was blown away by this story. Ive always thought of that 74 concert where john lennon and elton john are on stage as just a magical moment, but you you played a big role in getting john lennon out on stage. Could you tell everybody about that . Well, the thing is that a lot of people sort of query the fact that john was nervous about going on. They say, well, that cant have been possible because, you know, he was the height of the beatles. They played and did this, but people dont realize that john had not been on stage for years, and it was a whole different ball game at that particular time. Right. He was absolutely petrified to go on, and insisted that i go on with him, which was quite ridiculous, you know, and as elton said in his book, even a beatle couldnt get me to go on stage. So i literally had to propel him onto the stage, and once he was out there and heard the response of the audience which to this day, ive never heard anything like it. I mean, it was beyond beyond imagination, and then ultimately in the end, i did come on with him because when he came off, he pulled me onto the stage, and i had no choice. It was probably one of the highlights of my life to be part of that. Speaking of your life, youve done so many other things. Talk about what you have done, the art, and ranch work and everything that you have done on the side. It has held your interest in some ways as much or even more than being a lyricist. Well, yeah. I think the thing is people think they obviously know me most as a songwriter, and they think thats probably something that i do 24 hours a day, you know, 24 7, and thats so not the case. I have a lot of down time, but i manage to fill that down time with other endeavors and have done. Ive made my own records. I have had my own band. Im a relatively successful visual artist and ive also ranched for many years and cowboyed and simply lived a completely different life. Wow. So as Duke Ellington said, everybody should do more than one thing, and ive done way more than one thing. Other than the fact that you can now put on your many list of accomplishments New York Times bestselling author, what are you the proudest of when you look at this entire experience of scattershot . Whats given you the most joy . Well, the fact that i can put all of the joy and the heartache and my entire career, to be able to chronicle it into one book and then have it be a bestseller, thats probably the high point because it encompasses everything ive done, and the fact that people are buying the book and enjoying it is probably one of the high points in my life, if not the high point of my life. It is its a fantastic book, especially like fans like me that have followed you for so long, but didnt know all about you. So thank you so much for being with us today. I greatly appreciate it. Great honor. Thank you, and i appreciate you having me. All right. Bernie taupins memoir scattershot life, music, elton, and me is available now. Thanks so much, and morning joe will be right back. So mucg joe will be right back. Life, diabetes. Each day is a unique blend of going, doing, and living. Glucerna protein smart with 30 grams of protein to help keep you moving. Uniquely designed with carbsteady to help manage blood sugar response. Glucerna, bring on the day. Hi, my names steve. I lost 138 pounds on golo sugar response. And i kept it off. Golos changed my life in so many ways. Before, i was over 300 pounds. Now, i literally have the ability to take a shirt off and go out in the sun where i would have never done that before. Try golo. It works. I was stuck. Unresolved depression symptoms were in my way. I needed more from my antidepressant. Vraylar helped give it a lift. Adding vraylar to an antidepressant. Is clinically proven to help relieve overall depression symptoms. Better than an antidepressant alone. 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Arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. Those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. The most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. I chose arexvy. Rsv . Make it arexvy. Welcome back. This is a common misconception that professional women just arent as ambitious as men and that Flexible Work is somehow to blame for this. A new study finds women are actually more ambitious than they were before the pandemic and Workplace Flexibility is empowering that ambition. Maggie mcgrath and huma abedin are here. This is the women in the workplace report from mckenzie. Im curious, on women in ambition, what it found, im thinking this is all about the long runway, isnt it . Its about the long runway, but it also kind of rebuts a lot of what we have been talking about the last year around Quiet Quitting and the lazy girl job trend thats taken over tiktok. This shows women are anything but lazy. 81 of women surveyed say they are seeking a promotion within the next year, up from70 in 2019. It is the same number as menho are seeking a promotion. Among women under 30, nine in ten are looking for promotions, three in four aspire to senior levels of leadership. Even among women taking aive steps to prioritize their personal lives, 97 say their career is very important to them. I spoke with leanin ceo lexi thomas about this. She said this research is so important for busting myths and stereotypes around remote work. She said it suggests when women seek remote work, it means theyre lazy. Instead the remote and Flexible Work is empowering women to get more done on their own schedules and therefore be more ambitious. Usually when women are given flexibility or options, they work twice as hard. When i was running know your value, i had one executive editor admit to me she hired parttime women because they worked fulltime. It was crazy. The study also busted the myth that the biggest barrier to womens advancement is the glass ceiling. What is the reality . As much as we talk about the glass ceiling, we also talk about building ladders for women to progress. The study found that we have a broken rung in that ladder. That is for parts of our careers where were moving from entry level to management. The study found that this year in particular out of every hundred men promoted to management positions, only 87 women were promoted and only 73 women of color. 54 black women to every hundred men and 76 latina women to every hundred men. Until we fix that rung, no one is breaking glass ceilings. For women of color, there is not enough change comparatively. Maggie, i want to talk about some really great 50 over 50 news we got this week when it comes to the scientist who just won the nobel prize for her Ground Breaking work on the covid vaccine, in 2021 she also made the forbes and know your value inaugural 50 over 50 list. Tell us about her. She faced challenges, but yet she has won the nobel prize. She has an incredible story. Dr. Katalin kariko immigrated to the United States in 1995. She was hired by the university of pennsylvania in 1989 and started researching mrna, which were all familiar with because its in the covid vaccines. But she did not have success in the early 90s. She suffered skepticism to the point that in 1995 penn actually demoted her. She has since said the demotion took some of the pressure off. So she continued her research. She believed in the promise of science and technology. She found a Research Partner in drew weissman. Together they kept working on this research. They published findings that laid the groundwork for using mrna technology in therapeutics and vaccines. The Nobel Committee said their work has been so instrumental at such a crucial moment in time when a Global Health threat has faced us all and theyve been instrument in giving us the vaccines that are protecting so many of us. Dont forget our 50 over 50 lists are open. Thanks, guys. Coming up, Donald Trumps legal team is working to delay or dismiss several of the former president s ongoing cases. We have a packed legal panel to run through all of the developments at the top of the fourth hour of morning joe. Plus, the september jobs report just crossed. Andrew ross sorkin will join us to break down the numbers. Will to break down the numbers. Liberty mutual customized my Car Insurance and i saved hundreds. With the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. I was a bit nervous at first but then i figured its just walking, right . [dog barks] oh. 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The republicans need to choose their speaker. Theyre in the majority, but we are not going to help to enable somebody who has done those things and who has apologized and appeased donald trump. I think they did exactly the right thing and it was a courageous show of leadership. Former republican congresswoman liz cheney applauding democrats for choosing not to save Kevin Mccarthys speakership. Now the party faces the prospect of a hardright trump loyalist as his replacement. Well discuss congressman jim jordans bid for the speakers gavel ahead. Welcome to the fourth hour of morning joe. It is 6 00 a. M. On the west coast, 9 00 a. M. On the east coast. Jonathan lemire is back with us. We begin this hour with Donald Trumps legal team working overtime to delay or dismiss several ongoing legal battles involving the former president. First, the trump team moved to dismiss the indictment in his federal Election Interference case by claiming president ial immunity. The former president claimed his efforts to overtime his 2020 election loss and remain in the white house were at the, quote, heart of his official responsibilities as president. In New York City, the trump team filed to have his case dismissed regarding the falsifying of business records. The one related to hush money payments involving stormy daniels, they argued prosecutors waited too long to bring their case. Next up, the former president s classified documents case, where Trump Lawyers have once again asked judge Aileen Cannon to postpone the trial until after next years president ial election. This while hes chatting about Nuclear Secrets. Also, the former president unexpectedly dismissed the 500 million lawsuit against his former lawyer Michael Cohen yesterday while vowing to revisit it at a later date. Trump had been scheduled to sit down for a deposition in the case on monday. Interesting timing. Lastly, Donald Trumps lawyers are expected to ask for a pause in his Civil Fraud Trial today after an irate former president left the courthouse in New York City wednesday. His attorneys returned yesterday and informed judge Arthur Engoron of their plans to seek a stay in the case, where the former president would have to pay a 250 million fine and be stripped of all of his new york state properties. They want a stay in that. They want to delay literally everything. Joining us is jill winebanks, john sale, state attorney for Palm Beach County florida Dave Aronberg, tim obrien and ymone Sanders Townsend is with us as well. Tim, i want to start with you, because the Civil Fraud Trial had so much drama this week with donald trump showing up for a case he lost, at least a huge part of it. Yet, hes showing up day after day, claiming he has to be there when he doesnt. I hear a lot of people almost enjoying and saying the reason trump is so upset think about is because hes finally exposed. Trump can lie about his brand and his money all day long. I dont think thats it. Is there something thats more to the heart of his ability to operate as a company and as an individual given what hes facing here . Well, as you mentioned, mika, this was already somewhat baked in before the trial even began. The judge in the case already said he was guilty of fraud. He already recommended that trumps Business Licenses get pulled in new york. It looked like he was going to get fined. This whole process right now is just really establishing how bad the pain will be for trump. Whats remarkable is even facing that when he has every reason to disciplines himself and court the judge and limit the severity of the sanctions hes facing, he runs into this whole thing like yosemite sam. I think theres two things going on. He knows hes cornered and hes angry that hes cornered. I dont remember another public serial display of anger and aggression from trump in a public forum like this. I think its because its about his money, his familys business history. A big portion of his wealth is tied up in new york. Hes likely to be exiled from new york. The other reason is hes obviously playing to the maga base in the gop. Thats also a political miscalculation, because i dont think he can get elected on the backs of those voters. He needs to be courting moderate and independent voters. I think they look at this display of anger and angst as grotesque. I think it will hurt him in the national election. Hes not thinking straight because hes cornered. The moderate republicans he needs, many own businesses, pay their taxes, dont exploit the laws or try and claim their Hardware Stores are double the size or the new wing they put on their business is three times the size that it is. They go by the book when it comes to their businesses, and they try and lead an honest life. What this is revealing is that donald trump has been a massive fraud for years, and the apartment analogy is just perfect, actually. Lets run through this. Then i want to get to john sale on the Bigger Picture with the constitutional crisis. Jill winebanks, donald trump says hes immune from being accused of trying to steal the election. Your thoughts . I dont think hes immune. He relies on cases that were civil cases. Theres never been a holding that someone is immune from prosecution in a criminal case. Even his own party, speaker mcconnell said that he thought that donald trump could still be held accountable after the impeachment ended in acquittal, that there was still the criminal justice system. So i think he will not get away with this very vast expansion of the idea of president ial immunity. It fits more with what his Attorney General did when he auditioned for the job, william barr. He wrote a memo that said basically there was unlimited unitary executive power. Thats what he was arguing, that Something Like this which would end up making the president above the law completely and totally. He couldnt be indicted for anything he did before, during or after his presidency. Dave aronberg, there are so many trump legal developments this week. One that slipped under the radar late yesterday, he announced he is dropping this lawsuit i believe for 500 million against his former fixer Michael Cohen. Cohen, of course has served some prison time and very much turned on trump. What do you make of this . Trump and his attorneys left the door open that he could refile. Why do you think trump made this calculation now . Was it because he didnt want to be deposed . The last thing trump wants to do right now is sit for a sworn deposition while he has all these civil and criminal cases swirling around him. Theres nothing that the lawyer for Michael Cohen would have liked more than to depose donald trump. Shes really good and she was looking forward to it. But right before the deposition, he called it quits. Look, people were wondering why he showed up to the new york case this week. The reason, i think why he showed up was because the deposition in the Michael Cohen case was set for this week. He got a postponement because he had to be in court for his trial. Remember, he didnt show up for the e. Jean carroll trial, but he showed up for this one. He did not want any part of this deposition. Right before that deposition, he said forget about it. Dont expect him to file another lawsuit against Michael Cohen. Hes not going to go through this again. This was all about show, not about go. Ive lost count on the amount of litigation former President Trump is dealing with. John sale, i want to get to your conclusion and concern, especially because in the fraud trial the judge did put a gag order on trump with his social media and that his defiance seems to be ratcheting up when it comes to ratcheting up the rhetoric and reacting to whats happening in these Court Proceedings and showing his explosive anger out loud and perhaps even drumming up danger and violence from his base. Thats what some are concerned about. Youre concerned about a constitutional crisis. Can you explain . Hes no longer the president. Hes the former president , but hes being treated as if hes the president. Thats why were talking about him 24 7. Thats when he goes to be caught, he doesnt have to be put in handcuffs like everyone else. Hes taking everything out of the roy cohen playbook, just lashing out at the judges clerk, i think he couldnt help himself. What were going to be looking at is the hearing on monday before judge chutkan, which is a motion for protective order. I think shes going to do a very narrow order, which is going to say things he cant do, which is going to be threaten witnesses. I think he wont be able to control himself. So the question becomes, what does the court do . To sum up, about two weeks ago, i thought theres really nothing they can do. They can fine him. Hell become more of a martyr and raise more money, but you cant put him in prison. It just doesnt work practically. Ive changed my mind. I think ultimately if he defies the court order, it does more harm not to than to do it, because the message one hes love the law. I can assure you, if any one of my clients did what he did, threatened witnesses on social media, that they would be locked up. Mr. Blankenfried was locked up and the judge said the First Amendment does not give you the right to threaten or intimidate witnesses. I think donald trump is afraid of prison and with that over his head, well see. The possible constitutional crisis is the saturday night massacre involved president nixon threatening to disregard a court order. He ultimately didnt do that. If donald trump does disregard a court order, i think we have that potential crisis. What do we do about it . The ultimate sanction is prison. Jill, your take . I agree with what john said. I think jail is possible. Former Attorney General eric holder said the secret service can accompany him to jail without an undue burden. It wouldnt take Many Secret Service agents to be there with him. And i absolutely agree that it is far worse to do nothing in the face of blatant disregard of court orders and blatant disregard of the consequences of threatening the judge, threatening his clerk, threatening witnesses, intimidating the possible jury pool. If you dont stop it now, it will only get worse. Financial penalty will not have any effect. First of all, hes raising money so other people are paying for it, not him. Only jail will get to him directly. I just think he is absolutely in a position where the judge has no problem. The First Amendment is not an issue. It does not allow him to do these kind of illegal things. Any other client would have already been jailed a long time ago. I also agree go ahead, sorry. Any other client would have been jailed a long time ago. Thats the problem. Hes already getting so much special treatment. I do understand that some of it is because he is a former president. He has secret service. He had a certain situation that is highly unusual. This is highly unprecedented. So everybody is trying to deal with it in a fair and in the most appropriate way. But if he doesnt get the consequences that other people who have committed equal infractions, i think thats kind of feeding into his special status and his strong man status that nothing applies to him, which is exactly what he wants for his base. I want to add one more thing. Another potential legal issue for donald trump stemming from Special Counsel jack smiths team as they investigate the former president s alleged hoarding of classified documents at maralago. He admits to hoarding them. He says theyre his. Trump reportedly shared Classified Information about american Nuclear Submarines and their capabilities with an australian businessman, who then shared the information with more than a dozen foreign officials, sources familiar with the matter tell abc news. Meanwhile, two sources tell the New York Times that Donald Trumps disclosures potentially endangered the nuclear fleet. The businessman Anthony Pratt is a member at maralago. The former president revealed at least two pieces of critical inrmion about the u. S. Submarines tactical capabilities, including how many Nuclear Warheads the vessels carried and how close they could get to their russian counterparts without being detected. Pratt described trumps remarks to at least 45 others, including six journalists, 11 of his companies employees, ten australian officials and three former australian Prime Ministers. Representatives for pratt did not respond to messages seeking comment from abc news. A trump spokesperson said the report lacked proper context and said that President Trump did nothing wrong. Overall, what i find as i look through each of these cass and you have to look at what trump has already admitted to thats the information we can work with in an open forum here. Its not innocent until proven guilty, because he admits to it. Theres one story republicans in congress that is frightening and irresponsible and right wing tv networks, again frightening and irresponsible, but those who follow donald trump no matter what he says or does, no matter what, they are there with him. The fervency is hard to describe. It is. I think that is why those people cannot be the barometer. The people who feverishly follow donald trump who have sworn fealty to him that none of the facts and that we can see with our own eyes, those dont matter to him. Those are the people that cannot be the barometer. That is why donald trump meeting justice is so important. I think what john said about the constitutional crisis is something that should be bolded and underlined, yet again whether were talking about donald trump revealing our state secrets, which frankly, as someone who used to have a security clearance, the reason things are secret is because our information our currency and oftentimes those secrets have to stay secret because they are protecting people. The fact that he is callously revealing this information yet again underscores that he has very low if any regard for the job he used to have. I would just note, the only folks that have treated donald trump not like a president , like a regular citizen are fani willis and tish james. Underestimated. People said this is just a civil lawsuit, this isnt critical. It is that lawsuit that goes at the heart of his business. Fani willis is the only person getting people to flip in broad daylight that i can see. She and her investigation is going to be critical and i would argue an aid to the investigation jack smith is doing. I think theres been a lot of Monday Morning quarterbacking as it relates to these Legal Investigations into the former president , but the two folks that have managed to hold donald trump accountable and not treat him like a former president , like a regular citizen and meet the justice that he needs to meet are two black women, one in georgia and one in new york. Yeah. Tim, we just went through the lengthy catalog of legal woes facing donald trump. Earlier in the show we also ran through some poll numbers. We know that trumps grip on the republican nomination seems secure. This polling to compare him with President Biden, head to head pretty much dead even, the current president up slightly. The issues that are going to determine this election, many of them voters give a wide range of support for republicans, significant leads on things like the economy and immigration. Crime. And crime. All of those, particularly the economy may very well decide next years election. Even those who find trumps personal behavior abhorrent, maybe theyll make a decision with their pocketbooks instead. Is it extraordinary this race is this close considering the list of seemingly disqualifying things lined up against trump . Also because hes a demonstrably dangerous antidemocratic president. He wanted to torch the constitution. People can focus on joe bidens age, but the reality is joe biden has a team of responsible adults around him that have their hands on the steering wheel. Trump has never demonstrated he could bring the kind of team to the white house that would manage our federal government and our Nuclear Secrets responsibly. I think theres a lot of road left before they get into it with each other. Elections play out emotionally as narratives. Most americans did not care about elements of the january 6th probe until it was televised and the narrative became clear to americans what happened. I think as some of these court cases play out in a more public way, particularly the georgia case, which will be televised, i think that can be a powerful lesson for voters around what trumps team tried to do. The interesting problem the biden team faces is they generally should have a strong economic message. Gdp is growing, but inflation has hurt average people in their pocketbook on a daily basis. Thats where they feel it. The biden team has been trying to message theyve had a good record on the economy, but people arent feeling that at home. The other thing about polling is i just think the most active respondents to polls right now and primary voters are the most motivated people in each party. So the people getting behind donald trump right now are the most passionate trump supporters. I think theyre showing up inle polls and the primaries, but i think thats going to be a problem for trump in the general election. Looking at all of these cases, the one thing that can be determined here is there is a coordinated and collective effort to delay, delay, delay. Many experts argue trump is working on winning the presidency, because if he can do that, he can pardon himself from many or all of the accusations against him. I know georgia might be immune from a pardon. Raise your hand if you know what other cases are immune from the presidency, meaning, they can continue while a Trump Presidency began and actually remove him from office if he was found guilty . Are there any . Does anyone know . Raise your hand. Okay. John sale. Well, the new york case, the very first one, thats pardon proof. I dont know theres a mechanism to remove him from office, but before that case started, he said there would be death and destruction if hes charged. Well, the threats of violence have just gotten worse and worse and worse. But when George Washington said our government is the Great American experiment, hes still entitled to the presumption of innocence and every right in the constitution that he suggested be suspended would give to him like everyone else. He still needs to be convicted in a court of law. Okay. But may not remove him, which basically makes the presidency his ticket. Jill winebanks, john sale, Dave Aronberg and tim obrien, thank you very much all of you for being on this morning. We want to turn now to the breaking economic news. U. S. Employers added 336,000 jobs last month. Thats nearly double economists estimates. For more, lets bring in andrew ross sorkin. Wow. Underestimated this economy. Underestimated in a big way. This is good news in many ways. Some mornings when we get these jobless numbers, people say good news is good news. Other times they say good news is bad news. I want to break down a couple of things that are really important because youre probably watching the stock market go down. Youre going to see a headline number at 336, double what people had been anticipating. That would say weve got a very strong economy. Now, when that number first came out, you saw the stock market fall even more than it is right now in part because people said, oh my goodness, the Federal Reserve which is trying to put a cap on this economy and keep it from overheating, well, they might try to raise Interest Rates even more. However, i think a number of economists, if you really look through this report, are seeing some good signs that at the same time were getting more people into the workforce, that oddly enough, wages are not growing at wild rates anymore. Thats good when it comes to inflation. So when you look at wages just up. 2 , thats a very good sign. The other piece of this is the number of hours worked by workers in any given week has remained flat. If we thought that the economy was contracting or was pulling back, you would see that number drop, because youd think employers would say were going to cut some peoples hours. Thats not happening. Right now i would put this in a good news is good news category. There are some folks who think the fed is going to look at this negatively in that perverse way of saying maybe the economy is too hot. But i think as people start to understand these numbers better throughout the day that perhaps theyre going to see it that way. Politically, by the way, this may be very, very helpful for the Biden Administration. I imagine were going to hear from them in a little bit about these numbers. The white house has advised well be hearing from the president a little later this morning, no doubt touting the impact of bidenomics. I want you to go back to the fed, because if this was the concern that this report was too hot, they might reconsider this. Now this might make them want to raise them again. Give us your quick analysis. The whole issue about revisions is the numbers are not always right. What happens is we find out a month or two later that things were even hotter than we knew. All that in an odd way is good news because it means that the fed i dont want to say that we got it wrong, but we were working with marginally lower numbers. As a result some people were thinking they might want to raise rates a little bit more. Im of the view that some of the other numbers, the wage numbers, the hours that employers are employing people for, that that is actually going to weigh more heavily on the fed and perhaps they wont touch things, at least in november. But well see. Part of it is not just raising rates, its how long are they going to keep rates as high as they are. The markets have gotten very anxious about where the rates are and whether thats going to make things harder not just for consumers but also for the government. Exactly. Cnbcs andrew ross sorkin, thank you so much. Im always worried about the president or the administration bragging on the economy even if all indicators look amazing, because theres always going to be people that are struggling. We can always do better. Theres also all the parts of this that you cant control. Something could change in the World Dynamic that could impact the economy. You dont want to i, think hinge your whole campaign on this. Part of this reason its not enough is i dont care what people say, they are still watching television. I know people are watching morning joe. When you turn on the television or open up the newspaper, you often read about how the job market might be doing well, but inflation is still high, things still cost a lot at the Grocery Store. You dont see as much on television about the fact that inflation has actually gone down, that the prices are gone down. Eggs are not as cheap. I dont know about the rest of yall, but im not instacarting. Im going into the Grocery Store on a regular basis. It is important for this administration to beat back some of the terrible narrative, if you will, as it relates the economy that is, in fact, not true. Unemployment overall continues to be under 4 . When i worked at the white house, economists told us the United States would not reach under 4 unemployment until like 2024. We have consistently been under 4 unemployment for well over a year now. I think it is very important that this white house asserts its positive job numbers while also noting that they understand people are still struggling, that there is more work to do and put forth policies and proposals to ease some of those additional concerns. Real quick, did democrats do the right thing in not supporting Kevin Mccarthy . Now they have jim jordan around the corner potentially. Absolutely. If the shoe was on the other foot, republicans would not have bailed democrats out from their internal party squabble. Democrats should not interfere in the republicans intercaucus business. What they did do is do their jobs and make sure the government is funded. Its not democrats responsibility to bail out republicans here. If we were talking about democrats, no one would be suggesting that jim jordan or Kevin Mccarthy come to Hakeem Jeffries aid. I think this is a case where the republicans are going to have to get it together. I think we are going to see multiple round of yet another vote for speaker. I dont know if were going to shake out at 15 with an actual speaker. I dont know. What a mess. Symone Sanders Townsend, thank you very much for being on this morning. Coming up on morning joe, joe biden is already the oldest sitting president in American History, and his age is a concern for voters as he seeks reelection. But bidens former top military advisor says americans can rest easy. Well show you what retired general mark milley reveals about his experience working with the president. Thats next on morning joe. Wit thats next on morning joe. When you have chronic kidney disease. There are places youd like to be. Like here. And here. Not so much here. If you have chronic kidney disease, farxiga can help you keep living life. Farxiga and farxiga reduces the risk of kidney failure, which can lead to dialysis. 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They are giants in what they do because they work in a place where they can grow. Where they can learn the skills to build careers as powerful as the beasts they forge. We build giants. Because it takes one to build one. Youre probably not easily persuaded to switch mobile providers for your business. But what if we told you its possible that comcast business mobile can save you up to 75 a year on your wireless bill versus the big three carriers . Its true. Plus, when you buy your first line of mobile, you get a second line free. There are no Term Contracts or line activation fees. And you can bring your own device. Oh, and all on the most reliable 5g mobile network nationwide. Wireless that works for you. Its not just possible. Its happening. President joe biden has been portrayed by his political opponents and some of his allies as too old to be president. Im not asking for your political opinion here, but how does he seem to you . Im not going to comment. I didnt comment on the former president S Mental Health, physical health and im not going to comment on the current president S Mental Health or physical health. I think thats highly inappropriate for a senior officer of the United States military to do that. I would just tell you that i meet frequently with the president , and every single time i meet with him he is just fine. How people interpret that is up to them, but i engage with him frequently. Alert, sound, does his homework, reads the papers, reads all the read ahead material and hes very, very engaging in issues of very serious matters of war and peace and life and death. So if the American People are worried about an individual who is making decisions of war and peace and makes decisions for Nuclear Weapons and that sort of thing, i think they can rest easy. That was now former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff mark milley on 60 minutes telling americans concerned about the president s ability to rest easy. He expressed confidence in him despite outside concerns about his age. Jonathan lemire, i want to put it in context, because i see some other places, you know, blaring headlines over his age. Then you have on The Other Side 91 counts against a fraudster who had sex with a porn star and would take dirt from a foreign country on a political rival. I mean, the list goes on for hours. It appears to be a little bit skewed. Yeah. General milley is the latest National Security official to attest that President Biden is doing the job and doing it well and up for the job. I think theres an interesting contrast where we have the former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff saying President Biden is to be trusted with our nations most sensitive secrets. And we learned today that the former president of the United States was blabbing about our most sensitive security secrets to australian businessmen, who then turned around and told dozens of people himself. Its sort of like, thats all you got . But we can talk about this topic more with our next guest. More than 40 of workers over the age of 40 say they have experienced age discrimination at work in the last three years. In fact, there is a day dedicated to the issue. Tomorrow marks ageism awareness day. Joining us now, we have the dean of Public Health at columbia university, dr. Linda freed. Also with us is alan patrikoff who invests in companying serving the aging population. There are Many Companies like yours cropping up because of what i like to call the long runway. I have a list for forbes and show your value called 50 over 50. We celebrate women around the world who are looking at their greatest impact and most money making and greatest success well after the age of 50. So im seeing Something Different happening here. It seems on the Business Front are you seeing a need for a company like yours . I dont think theres any question. When we started up prime time three years ago, it was an interesting idea to focus on investing in products, services, technologies that serve older people. In the last three years, there probably are half a dozen or more firms like mine that have sprouted up, plus a lot of the existing firms have all of a sudden started focusing on aging and wellness and recognizing that its the Fastest Growing part of the population. Its not the millennials. In ten years there will be more people over 60 than there will be under 18. So older people are lasting longer and they have more money to spend and theyve got smarts so they can Start Companies and theyre going to need what everyone needs, but they need specialized products. I think youre also aware of the need for caregiving, a big need and big shortage. But you have also all kinds of services that are slightly different than what younger people need. Connect what we were just talking about. Theres obviously a lot of discuss about aging and the National Discussion right now because of the president of the United States and his challenger, both late 70s and older. How has that impacted how youre finding americans writ large talking about the idea of age and ageism . A lot of the discussion about politicians who are older derive from this issue of ageism, that we have a negative lens about aging, particularly in this country, although its a global phenomenon, at the same time we have this historic accomplishment that because of our societal investments weve added 30 years to human life. Were only now realizing through science that this accomplishment is unveiling an extra 30 years of life in which people have immense capabilities. People did not lose the assets theyve accrued over their lifetime, their expertise, their experience and actually their ability to use those in novel situations that leave them better prepared to problem solve in ways that often younger people dont have the background to do. So the gap here is between what the evidence says we actually mature into as we get older and fears and myths about what aging means, because its scary for many people. Stronger, wiser, better is the terms that we use at 50 over 50. I wish we had more time to talk about this. Thank you both very much. Well have to have you back on this. We appreciate it. Still ahead on morning joe, were going to break down the numbers behind a disturbing and growing trend in the nations capital. Well explain what it is. And later the return of a beloved show that highlights wildlife from around the world. S wildfeli from around the world. Birds flyin high, you know how i feel. Breeze driftin on. [coughing]. 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Com limu emu doug [bell ringing] and doug says, you can customize and save hundreds on Car Insurance with liberty mutual. he hits his mark center stage and is crushed by a baby grand piano. Are you replacing me . With this guy . Customize and save with liberty bibberty. He doesnt even have a mustache oh, look a bibu. [limu emu squawks. ] only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. I was stuck. Unresolved depression symptoms were in my way. I needed more from my antidepressant. Vraylar helped give it a lift. Adding vraylar to an antidepressant. Is clinically proven to help relieve overall depression symptoms. Better than an antidepressant alone. And in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. Elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. Report unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. Antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. 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Join now and get 50 off any footlong. Actress julia ormond has filed a lawsuit against harvey weinstein, accusing him of Sexual Assaulting her in 1995 and then retaliating against her, hindering her career. When she tried to confront him there have been many other women, weinstein is in jail now. Shes also suing her former agents at caacaa, alleging theyl knew about weinstein and did nothing about it. Your agents are supposed to be your advocates. If they knew about this and did nothing about it weinstein was convicted of rape and Sexual Assault in new york in 2020. He was also convicted of rape in separate cases in los angeles. Weinstein is appealing both of those decisions. We will follow this to see how much these companies knew about this behavior. The wall street journal has new reporting this morning on the surge in Violent Crime across washington, d. C. And the impact it is having on neighborhoods and businesses. The district has had 216 homicides this year, which is a 38 increase from this time last year. It comes as other major cities ar seeing a doubledigit decline in homicides. Many robberies are up 70 and car thefts have more than doubled. On monday, a congressman was carjacked in the city, becoming the second member of congress this year to experience a olt crime in d. C. No singl reason explains the increase. Law enforcement officials cite factors such as the steady flow of illegal guns, a depleted poli fce and lingering effects of pandemic disruptions. But these issues are not unique to washington. D. C. Officials have added more visible Police Patrols and enforced Police Patrols and enforced the juvenile curfew. The d. C. Cnc in july passed emergency legislation making it easier to detain criminal suspects preial. The city says Violent Crime fell after the law took effect and the jail population swelled by about 25 . Washington, d. C. , though, experiencing such a surge in Violent Crimes. Still ahead, a conversation on protecting wildlife and cons vision. Peter gross is an expert on both of those things and he joins us next on morning joe. Why choose between a longer life or quality of life . You deserve both. And with kisqali, a treatment for people with metastatic breast cancer, you can have both. Kisqali is a pill that, when taken with an aromatase inhibitor is the only treatment of its kind shown to both help people live longer and improve or preserve quality of life. Because you shouldnt have to sacrifice one for the other. Kisqali can cause lung problems, or an abnormal heartbeat, which can lead to death. It can cause serious Skin Reactions, Liver Problems and low white blood cell counts that may result in severe infections. Avoid grapefruit during treatment. Tell your doctor right away if you have new or worsening symptoms, including breathing problems, cough, chest pain, a change in your heartbeat, dizziness, yellowing of the skin or eyes, dark urine, tiredness, loss of appetite, abdomen pain, bleeding, bruising, fever, chills, or other symptoms of an infection, a severe or worsening rash, are or plan to become pregnant, or breastfeeding. Live longer and live well. Ask about kisqali, and long live you. There are giants among us. Ask about kisqali, they are the men and women building our navys next generation submarines. They are giants in what they do because they work in a place where they can grow. Where they can learn the skills to build careers as powerful as the beasts they forge. We build giants. Because it takes one to build one. Bold. Daring. Expressive. Contra Costa College allows me to be whoever and whatever i want to be, providing the stage, the canvas, the tools to use my voice and write my story. Find your passion and create your future at contra Costa College. Start today at contracosta. Edu away from the deep waters, now to get the coils off. He doesnt crash, but hell keep squeezing until breath and circulation are completely gone. That pressure is tremendous. None too soon, those coils were tiring, and neither of us had much fight left. That was Marlon Perkins the longtime host of mutual of omahas wild kingdom wrestling an anaconda. It has been six decades since the Program First aired on tv, and now it will return this weekend. In it, host peter gros will explore how threatened wildlife is being protected and the nature conservationist and wildlife expert joins us now. So my family watched this every sunday night. It was Appointment Viewing for us when i was a little girl. So tell us about bringing this back. What are we going to see, and how can you make it Appointment Viewing again . Well, its were very excited about the fact were bringing it back on the 60th anniversary of the original wild kingdom in 1963 and what were doing is visiting various locations around the United States. We have so many species within this country to talk about, and these are all positive stories of conservation success programs. For instance, what youre seeing right now is a fox, a Channel Islands fox, and theres a tortoise. These are animals that needed a little help to be reintroduced back to the wild, and through the help of many conservation programs beautiful. And agencies working together, the puffins were introduced on an island that now are sustaining successfully there off the coast of maine. We get to tell that story. Each of our new exciting shows will talk about successful reintroduction programs with wildlife that really needed our help. It looks like a lot of fun and beautiful and the question is do you wrestle an anaconda . You know. I am very happy kind of a requirement. Im very happy to report that thats the way they had to do research in those days. Now we do it with drones and long lenses and motion sensing cameras so oftentimes the wildlife were photographing isnt eventual aware that they are being. So its much gentler on the body and im happy to report that. Id like a chance against the anaconda. We should note that its the 50th anniversary of the endangered species act here in the United States. On the whole, the overall trajectory, do you think weve as a nation made Good Progress here . Are we doing what we need to do to safe these species . We are and we have. The endangered Species Program has saved over 16 species of flora and fauna to date, so its a very effective program. What youre going to see on our new program, mutual of omaha wild kingdoms protecting the wild, is species that came off the endangered species list. One of the shows im most excited about was the bald eagle, our national bird. We just had one released back into the wild in the pacific northwest, and its so moving to see them leave and go back into the trees and know there are salmon and wild forests for them to live in the distance. Absolutely beautiful, catch new episodes of mutual omahas wild kingdom protecting the wild saturday mornings on nbc. Thanks for doing this, and thanks for coming on the show this morning. We appreciate it. Thank you. That does it for us this morning. Ana cabrera picks up the coverage in 90 seconds. Coverage in 90 seconds when moderate to Severe Ulcerative Colitis takes you off course. Put it in check with rinvoq, a oncedaily pill. When i wanted to see results fast, rinvoq delivered rapid Symptom Relief and helped leave bathroom urgency behind. Check. When uc tried to slow me down. I got lasting, steroidfree remission with rinvoq. Check. And when uc caused damage rinvoq came through by visibly repairing my colon lining. Check. Rapid Symptom Relief. Lasting steroidfree remission. And the chance to visibly repair the colon lining. Check, check, and check. Rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. Serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer; death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. People 50 and older with at least 1 Heart Disease risk factor have higher risks. Dont take if allergic to rinvoq as serious reactions can occur. Tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. Put uc in check and keep it there with rinvoq. Ask your gastroenterologist about rinvoq and learn how abbvie can help you save. Right now on ana cabrera reports, donald trump wading into the contested race for House Speaker backing a longtime ally overnight and floating a potential visit to capitol hill. Plus, more pressure on the Biden Administration after
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