.oney from a for-profit company included in the ownership this is a woman named julie mcmahon and who that "the journal" described as a "close friend of bill clinton." and then following that is a negative story about the clintons is a negative story about donald j. trump, the billionaire. the paper published newly found audio that they say includes trump pretending to be his own spokesman, calling himself john miller when talking to a magazine reporter about his interactions with women and his divorce. he denied the voice is actually his. savannah: they have obtained a a voice that they say is in fact you someone , pretending to be a pr person. this is 25 years ago. let me play a portion of the tape for you. >> what is your name? pr rep.: john miller. >> what is your position? >> handling pr, because you get so much about it. savannah: he goes on about his dating exploits, goes on against his reports. the simple question, are you aware of the tape, is that you? mr. trump: i don't recognize this at all, and there are many, many people who are trying to imitate my voice, and you can imagine that this sounds like one of the scams, one of many scams, this doesn't sound like me. it was not me on the phone. when was this? 25 years ago? savannah: yes, in the early donald trump: so you're going to 1990's. something that took place 25 years ago, whether or not a phone call? you may assume it is under a presumed name. mark: that is donald trump on his controversy. here he is on fox and friends when he was asked to respond to the clinton controversy. mr. trump: i know it is a rough story. people have been talking about it for a couple of years, and it is next to my golf club. i have a trump international golf club literally a few minutes away. people have been talking about that for years. i have no idea what is going on. i certainly don't. it is a bombshell. there is no doubt about it. mark: hillary clinton has not publicly responded to the bombshell, but the clinton foundation this afternoon released a statement with a statement that says the wall street journal piece misleads readers about how the foundation works. and here is bill clinton talking about it last night on a rope line in kentucky. >> [indiscernible] mr. clinton: i haven't had a chance to read it carefully, but i think my foundation [indiscernible] >> that you deny that statement? guess. ton: oh god, -- yes. mark: so donny, neither of these stories have exploded like i thought they would, but would you say that either or both represent a threat to the targets? donny: neither one is exploding so far because ironically, they are both on brand and with trump, it is what did this wacky guy do next, and with hillary clinton, it is about e-mails. potentially the trump thing has more fire. at the end of the day, this entire election is going to come about fear are we more afraid of , the unknown about trump or the known about hillary? and this clearly shows donald trump how wacky he is. let's think about it for a second. let's just visualize that you are donald trump, ok, and you basically are posing as a somebody else calling to give good press not just about donald, but about women, that is nuts. i mean that is cray-cray! mark: he had acknowledged in a court document that he has done this in the past played his own , pr guy. reporters are talking about -- donny: if anything, what he should have done, is say, "when waso you can say, look, i having some fun with it. mark: it was the 1990's. donny: and i am very efficient, i don't need to pay some pr guy. the fact to actually hide behind it and say you didn't do it, either one of them are damaging blows. they are bizarre and on brand. but -- mark: they are both dog bites. trump lackey -- wacky. i think they both have legs potentially. on the trump thing, he has to answer to eventually ended a more direct answer. did you ever do this? on the clinton side, this mingles all sorts of things. the clinton foundation, favors her friends, unorthodox practices, and bill clinton's personal life. donny: and they are so baked in at this point. the trump stuff is easier to digest. you glaze over the clinton step. you hear e-mails, the foundation , it is kind of boring and muddy. but the trump stuff, it is kind of fun. and is easily digestible. the fact that the clinton stuff is boring and very baked in, the trump is still great unknown -- mark: what do you think trump is going to say when he is asked about it directly? donny: the big thing for trump whether it is a howard stern interview, "hey, i am an entertainer, i was a business guy, it was 25 years ago. come on kids grow up." ,and another thing we have seen isrecent weeks, the press more emphatically interested in mr. trump than any other human being alive. hillary clinton has struggled to break through this even when she is criticizing him. clearly is this a danger? mark: i think it is. you know, john and i talked to john podesta and we said, "are you worried that donald trump can dominate against the way he republicans?" and john podesta said that as the press, their job is not to let that happen. so far the early show, if he wants to be the story, he can be . so her message does not get out. donny: it is very simple. in, hillaryu lean comes on, you lean back. america bought the truck pilot, now they want to see the show. say what you want, we are going to watch trump all the time, morning, noon, and night. so, that can blow him up or that can -- mark: and what can she do? she comes here and says, i want to be in the news every night. i don't want it to always be a trump piece. what can she do? donny: she has to be a great counterpunch. the counter program has got to be smart, so you've got to wait, basically, you have something to play with every day. you have a piece of clay trump will give you every day. best efforts are never going to be as good as his . he could be the lead every day and blow himself up, but the country could say "this is the , story, this is the guy." donny: today for instance, she should -- by the way, if i were her, i would be on "saturday night live" next weekend and try do something fun, really mock him, stay above him. look, she is a serious person. but kind of have some whimsy at his expense. obama is kind of like her attack dog. he has gravitas. mark: trump will go on and do interviews even when there is controversy swirling around him. you have a fake pr thing, but when she has got controversy swirling at, and there is after this story that has not been addressed she doesn't want to , talk to the press. her people are going to bunker about it with her, and i think it is going to be hard for her , because there will be a lot of opposition research that comes out about both of them. trump will still be out front dominating. donny: the good and bad news is the airwaves are his, and he can make them work for him or not. but either way, there is nothing hillary clinton is doing to take the cameras away from donald trump. he is much more interesting. mark: she could go on a fifth avenue, to paraphrase about what donald trump said about shooting somebody, and let herself on fire like a buddhist monk in vietnam, and it would still be what does donald trump think about hillary clinton? donny: if she gets elected and something happens in the news, she will comment, and going forward, they will say donald trump represents 50 million people whether we like it or not, and he will be weighing in for the rest of his adult life. mark: saying those immortal words, "trump lives." back, the we come brand audit with the candidate likes to band everything. we will ask donny about his "mad men" expertise. that is coming up. ♪ ♪ mark: when it comes to presidential campaigns, the guiding theory of this program is clear. the candidate who best controls his or her public image and defines the public image of the opponent wins. karl rove was the latest to weigh in on this story. he wrote in to "the wall street journal" this week that it is about candidate success and enterprise i think -- and emphasizing their selling points and undermining each other. i think we have our bona fide brand man on set here. donny, walk us through this. donny: it is pretty clear what trump wants his band -- his thing to be. i'd agent of change, dealmaker that does not get pushed around, a straight talking guy that tells it like it is. mark: so those are the positives. it is pretty clear what the clinton people want you to think about trump. they use phrases like "loose cannon," offensive to women and minorities, and narcissist. so how does trump is besides the positives that trouble try to emphasize as -- clinton will try to emphasize as negatives? donny: this is about both sides. if you are trump, you want to alleviate the fears. you are basically john wayne. you are a sheriff coming into town, and you want to protect the little guy, and the ends justify the means. you will notice in every major drama on tv, the protagonist, whether it is "mad men," "breaking bad," it has it very flawed in masculine mails, and that is him at this point. so everything he needs to do, i am strong, i am in charge, don't be afraid of me. mark: i think clinton is still the favorite in this race, but the danger for her on this brand fight, you look at the negative list. negatives have some positives to -- for a lot of voters, those negatives have some positives to them. "loose cannon," i want a guy who is a loose cannon in washington. they like the fact he is not even pc. "con artist," even. donny: it is two words, loose cannon. either i will clean things up, or a loose cannon like the barry , you talk about this election coming down to women, suburban women, married women. they are risk averse. if i were running clinton's campaign, everything would be about, "mommy, you can't put your kids in harm's way." honey, your husband may not come home from work. show that trump is martin sheen in the "dead zone." you do not want him saying basically -- who cares? to youru are going suburban women in ads saying, military people, foreign leaders, everyone will say it. a lot of people i talk to say if the price of trying to change washington will take on a use -- loose cannon we're going to do , it. but you are right. donny: it is too high of a price and it could and the world. , i am not being apocalyptic here. that is what you sell. so what happens if he has a bad morning and wakes up any calls putin and says -- mark: all right, let's go talk about the clinton brand here and what she is trying to reinforce. donny: oh, i am sorry! that includes of course her experience as first lady and as a former secretary of state and emphasizes the history making possibility of having the female first president here in the united states. problem solverc and strong-willed and strength to fight back if she gets knocked down. mark: those of the positives for clinton. here is what the trump team is going to try to sell, "corrupt hillary," and then people perceive her as honest and trustworthy when they see her. they say she is out of touch and she will represent barack obama's third term. finally, she is in the "back pocket of wall street interests." so what does she need to reinforce her positives and keep trump from framing her with a long list of negatives? donny: safety. things are pretty good. we have got to change things, but i am safe, he is not. i have been there. i will continue to do it. i am on your side. honey your kids are going to , come home. he is not safe. i am safe. mark: so people vote on emotion. people will be inspired by the first female president. what else can she talk about to have people see the brand? it is not just safe and kind of boring, but it is also emotional. or is it all negative trump? donny: yes. the positive of that is safety. brand is also an about authenticity. i bet she is boring, at worst untrustworthy. so you make the status quo sexier than the fear of the unknown. unknown has won in six of the seven last elections. every time we have a two-term president, they hope to change, but those were blank pieces of paper. the obama was a blank piece of paper. bill clinton was a blank piece of paper. we have a very long dossier on trump and if you make that dossier a rap sheet, he becomes too scary. mark: was that thing on the list of negatives that is the most potentially damaging to her brand? donny: i mention this before. bill clinton. the smoking gun i would be worried about is bill clinton and jeffrey epstein who went to jail for getting massages from 14-year-old kids. -- if anything, bill clinton it is a lie he was near that are in the same space as that, hillary will go down with that. mark: is that part of corrupt and untrustworthy? donny: yeah, that is part of the yuck, that is part of the yuck. intel tells meof -- that is not just standing by your philandering husband and you turned your head. if in any way she was married to a man that was near that, that is an ugliness you have not seen anywhere, and i would be worried about that. mark: so they both have advertising, they both have surrogates, all kinds of ways to get at the message. but in terms of candidate skill, who is a better political athlete in defining their brand and going on the offense? are they close? donny: they are close. i mean, donald trump is one of the best branding human beings, communicators, sales persons of all time. put politics, business -- the guy blows me away. and i know donald, i am friends with donald, i could tell you his strengths, i could tell you his weaknesses. this in my career of following brands that includes nike and , following celebrities like madonna and politicians like obama, i have never seen a more clearly defined managed brand than this person. that is a people love. mark: one of the main reasons you think he has got a good chance here. when we come back, donny and i are going to examine the deep stake options of both candidates. ♪ ♪ mark: so here we are with donny deutsch talking about the candidate brands of the likely nominees, hillary clinton and donald trump. they will have three major opportunities to define themselves in the general elections. when they pick their running mates, at the conventions, and the debates. so there is not the perceptions and personalities to be considered. so let's start with trump. before we get to actual physical human beings, what kind of picks do you think would suit him the best in terms of enhancing his brand. donny: he could either go deeper or do a brand expansion. the traits he has already, which is strong, masculine, protective, all of those things, or he can do a brand extension which would be a woman on the ticket, somebody who is more of a moderate in certain areas that extend his brand. i think there is someone on the top of his list, and that is tom ridge. he needs a security guy, a guy inside washington. he was a congressman and a governor. he needs a guy that looks a certain way. but was great about clinton-gore, he did not need another southerner, but they were two, real good-looking southern guys, and i think he fits -- and guess what? he is a part of the swing states. mark: the other thing about tom ridge is he has a blue-collar background. and a veteran. donny: i always say, what do they look like on stage together? you can see the behind the scenes -- he has the ability to say, "donald, how you doin', man?" mark: i don't think he is pro-choice. he could get away with it, some could. the guy is a great campaigner, national security credentials, and i think there is also chance he will pick someone that does not have serious national security credentials. and trump has said as much. also, ridge knows washington and he also has a state background, very valuable. all right, talking about hillary clinton from eight branding perspective. what do you think she should pay court whatever to help her brand? donny: does she deepen the brand or extend it? i think she will do a brand extension. what do we say about hillary? yeah, she is boring. so what do you do? i go castro, get a sexy, young hispanic. mitt romney got most of them. basically, you now have a young, appealing, hispanic male on the ticket, and i think that is her nail in the coffin. that is her first choice by far. i think a boring choice, in terms of brown from ohio, i think you need castro. mark: here is why i do not agree. ridge is qualified to be president, no one will doubt it. castro has a great future but i , don't think you could pass him off today is ready to be president. i don't think you want to take too great a risk. you ruin the brand that says we are ready. when you pick a guy, and with all due respect with the career he has had, it is risky for him as president of the united states. donny: with tromp, if you put a more risk-averse candidate there , whereas hillary is there. you are not thinking -- i don't think people are thinking about one gunshot away, god forbid, they vote on the overall gestalt mark: of the people. but here is a reality. trump will make his pick late. he may make it at the convention. the democratic convention is the next week. that gives clinton a small window. she needs a really big wild pick. otherwise you are talking about trumps pick which makes hers. wowver trump picks is donny:. the more logical picks, the more blocking and tackling, -- i always go is a really -- visually. she needs sex appeal, she needs newness. i don't know where else to go. the other thing she could do was pitbull, like andrew cuomo. she is obviously not picking andrew cuomo, obviously, but some kind of pugnacious streetfighter. that would be hurt streetfighter . but then it makes her look weaker because -- mark: i don't have a name yet, this is based on reporting. she may find a prominent republican to join her, maybe even a republican woman. that would be a "wow" pick. republican, a woman, and doubling down on historical this donny:. give me a name. mark: i don't know anyone who would be doing it yet. maybe a female business person. any female would shake up the race. donny: not warrant. mark: she wants someone she can work with. i don't think hillary clinton can spend four years working with elizabeth warren. and the wow factor would be huge , and it would emphasize that said we know is going to be a fake factor in philadelphia -- big factor in philadelphia. this is trumped territory. donny: if she can find someone like that, if you can pull it off -- mark: there may be some retired senator, of governor. donny: so in theory, that is great. name three. mark: i am working on it. donny: even theoretically. mark: if nancy kassebaum were around, that would be a fine pick. donny: how about opera? mark: she is not a republican. we are talking about the reunifying project with the former rnc chairman michael steele. donny: why does he get to be superman? i get super glasses, but he gets to be superman. ♪ ♪ mark: our first guest tonight is two guests tonight. joining us from washington dc, the former chairman of the rnc, michael steele, and 30 rock, bonnie keith hunt joins us. i went to ask two questions. chairman steele, what happened that increased your view of the probability of donald trump getting elected president? michael: the fact that he was able to walk into washington and command the stage. i mean, i think it send a strong statement across the country on a number of fronts. mark number one, that the , establishment is willing to talk with him and meet with him and work with him. two, he sat in that meeting and he did the important thing, and that was listen. he did not come in braggadocious and sort of waving the flag. i that was good in sending a broader signal he is ready to take this thing on, go up against hillary and become , president. donny: hey michael, let's say the day before they came out, there is a difference. it was a 10 point spread. were you getting the same kind of rosie carnation like response or people backed off? goodel: that is a question. it would have been more reserved. the polling helped him. the narrative going into that meeting was that donald trump was giving -- he was getting beaten in polls that were out at the time. when that hit, it sends a different message that wow, this thing could be competitive. some of us have said, i see this as a 50/50 race right now. starting this thing off, i think it is a real opportunity for both of these candidates who are flawed, as we know who have , popularity problems, as we all know. yeah, i think it would be a slower response, but i think it helps. mark: i will entertain his answer before we go to casey. it helped the con. it was the biggest, change the whole psychology. donny: and it is, anytime the numbers start to shift in from -- in trumps direction, people talk about this. so the polls more than ever in any election with this candidate are going to start to become dictate the action. mark: from the point of view of the clinton campaign, do you think trump had a good week, or are they looking for areas are there is division in the republican party? casey: they are trying to push as aggressively as they can. the narrative is that the republican party is still divided and will continue to be divided. we saw some noise from the never trump people about his tax returns, something they are looking at. the challenge for the clinton campaign is going to be pushing back against whatever it is donald trump tries to sell as the new version of himself. you're already seeing these rest releases over and over again with his comments on muslim for example. you are seeing releases that in some ways feel like, ok, maybe you could have sent this on wednesday, but things have changed a little bit. and i think reminding people and keeping it fresh is going to be tough. and i think their challenge, it used to be she could go to chipotle and people would follow her every step. that is not going to be the case between now and november. donny: if we ask how it is everyone's week, is it trump two good or bad? hillary will be on the sideline. michael, let me ask you about the tax thing. i got a little cuckoo on "morning joe." i was in fat about the tax thing. kasie: are you always? donny: i believe -- donald is a friend and i like donald. the one citizenship job is to pay our taxes. and if he cannot display basically his simple job as an american, the one with possibility, he does not deserve that office. mark: let's listen to trump with george stephanopoulos on "good morning america." i wonder if you think he is a little rattled about what is going on. >> what the financials do not show is also your tax rate, whether you played -- mr. trump: i fight very hard to pay as little tax as possible. i have said that for two years. i fight very hard because this country wastes our tax money. they throw down the drain. george: what is your tax rate? mr. trump: that's none of your business. you will see it when i release it. the: so that last line, tone of that, we have heard him snap, but that seemed a little peevish. donny: i think he did not expect it. michael: it resonates around the country. there was no when i talked to inside washington certainly but outside of washington that thinks this is a big deal. they like the fact that -- ok, fine. so what do you think it is going to do? what is the change? after everything donald trump has said, all the stuff that his rallies, you think tax returns will be the kryptonite? donny: there are two things. if you days 12%, nobody cares. that is what rich guys do. -- he pay 0% to charity is going out and saying he gives money -- i will go back to what we are talking about earlier. the fear of the unknown. you've got the fake pr guy, the guy who is basically not showing his tax returns. you make the unknown so shaky -- and it -- all those pieces together. it's not the tax returns. it is what it says about the person. michael: but you are speculating yourself into a tizzy. donny: not a tizzy. i'm cuckoo, not tizzyish. mark: let me ask you about the wall street journal and your sense about how clinton folks feel about that story and whether they are surprised into not get as much attention as we thought it was going to. kasie: i will say they think this was represented a major distraction for the clinton campaign. i think in the broad picture details of today's story, and it it was published here and there, everyplace aside. if there are stories like this continually between now and november, it will prevent the campaign from putting all of their energy where it needs to be, and that is on donald trump. if it's a persistent issue, it will be a problem in the long term. what michael steele was talking about earlier is right. they think this is going to be a very close election, and to a certain extent, there are major question marks. how to make sure that you take him out. every day they are not focused that, it is not as good as it could be. mark: i am concerned about where clinton's allies are on this. do they think it will be a close election or do they think it will break his back and blow him out? kasie: they are still in a wait and see mode. i think the polling this far out is not indicative. they are waiting to see what the allied groups, super pac's will do over the summer to attack trump and go after him. but i do think they think it is very important they say now it is going to be a close election because complacency is their , enemy here. if voters think oh, she has got , this, and they want to prevent that starting now. agreemichael, you and i trump had a good week. if you called you up and said i had a great week, what should i be concerned about, what would you put on that list? michael: i would be concerned about making sure he redirects the brand message. that he gets back on talking about policy to the extent that he can and to the extent that he has in the past. bring that back to the conversation, get off the conversation about who doesn't like him, what percentages are against him and focus on a , forward-looking message as he enters the campaign, and as the course corrected throughout the campaign. if he does that, he can build up these positive weeks going forward. donny: can i ask you a question? do you think he has the ability to go deep on policy? you know, there is a class -- he is the type of business leader i have met the ceo before. they do not have the ability or desire to go anywhere but up here. some guys just don't -- they have add. at the end of the day you could sit with him -- mark: i have had talks with him about things like nato in which he goes deeper and more thoughtful on public opinion and the substance. for whatever reason that he shows in public. he does not want to show that side. he wants to be 30,000 feet. he understands a lot of issues much better than he left on. donny: why wouldn't he? mark: maybe he will. maybe he is waiting to do it in the debates and stun hillary clinton? are we done, guys? i'm asking the guys in the control room. yes, we are. michael steele and casey hunt, thank you for coming on. donald trump says data targeting voters is overrated. tohave our sasha eisenberg evaluate that. if you're watching us and washington, d.c., you can now listen to us on the radio in the bloomberg 99.1 in the district. we will be right back. ♪ ♪ mark: this week, donald trump made headlines with an associated press interview. he said his general election campaign will focus a lot more on his big trademark row lies -- rallies rather than the data-driven in approach that helps barack obama to the white house. joining us for our by the number segment, our political mad scientist sasha eisenberg. here to unpack the reality of what trump said his plan will be. thank you for coming in. what do you think is behind trump saying he will not go big on data but just big event. sasha: he laid out a coherent. in the interview. he has this candidate-centric persuasion exercise their mass media and that comes out of the branding, self-promotion environment he is familiar with. you think about the way he would have approached something like "the apprentice." the goal of "the apprentice" was to get in front of as many people as possible. there is no downside to put a billboard for "the apprentice" in front of people who might prefer to watch "will and grace." there is a huge downside putting out the get out the vote message in front of a hillary clinton voter. he is bringing the same sort of sensibility you want to build a big audience to mass media. it is a mistake applying it to the logic of politics. it is all about those people you don't want to communicate with. donny: sasha, it's interesting. they have quantified, the new york times quantification, he has $1.1 billion of media exposure. hillary clinton is $700 million, so there is the difference. he is making a mistake. it is not either or. it will come down to a few special groups. and all the market today, all of advertising it used to be you , ran a 60-second commercial and your billboards. it is now what is going on here, the phones, and talking about this the other day, he does not have a choice. but this is a one strategic thing. do agree it with that? sasha: i don't really. it is hard to imagine you run a modern campaign without thinking about individually targeted communication. the fact that he did get through the primaries, and he basically you know all of the data we talk , about for targeting is most useful for direct mail, individually targeted, digital advertising, phone calls, knocks on the door. he hardly did any of that. thinks i can see why he he has a sort of winning approach, but is very difficult in a general election environment to imagine you can rely solely on free media bait and perhaps some kind of crudely purchased television program. mark: let's talk about scale. his biggest events are about 20,000, 30,000 people. if he starts getting venues of people, they do events that big, is that scale so big he can take the edge off of not doing the same kind of targeting? sasha: who goes to candidates' events? one assumes it is most likely who are already their supporters, and who are intending to vote. candidates want to talk to people who are either persuadable, likely not going to a large scale candidate rally, people who are up for grabs, or the people who are passive supporters who need to be mobilized. and if somebody is going to an event, they are probably likely to vote. you want to get to the people who are not ready to vote already. there's a little bit of not preaching of the converted but also -- mark: i will say that trump events are different. to get a lot of people go trump events because they will be entertaining, not because they are supporters. maybe convince them that way and on the spot. sasha: i wonder if you can really do that at the scale and scope. from 30,000 to 70,000 is pretty negligible when you compare the size of a direct mail flight or digital ad buy. eightmark: thank you. donny: 15 million by the end of the primaries, that would be 120 million people voting. a little different style. mark: he will have to wrap it up. when we come back, mr. donny deutsch reviews the news and us. ♪ ♪ mark: in the current political climate, it feels like every week is bigger than the last, but this week was huge. there were almost too many news events. and of course we cover a lot of them, but we're not perfect. that is why we ask mr. donny deutsch to step in and recap the week. take it away. they: you may know me from big idea, the today show, morning joe. >> donny deutsch is here. >> yeah, totally. spend a lot of time in front of the mirror. donny: my new scripted comedy "donnie," and of course, "the apprentice." i am on television a lot and i think a lot about television. this has been one wacky week for television and television news. i have been watching like everybody else does all do with spect, and i have interesting thoughts. let's start where all political new starts these days, with mr. donald trump, and even mr. trump, his interview on "this week" was a shocker when it came to the republican party. mr. trump: does the party have to be together? does it have to be unified? i am different from everyone else there i actually don't think so. george: you don't think so? donny: you see the look on george's face? that is the look of someone who ordered a reuben sandwich and was told there is no russian dressing. speaking of russian, the media swarmed pc because donald trump was in town for the big meet and priebus andreince of course paul ryan. we had great coverage. but then riffing on the comedy of immigration -- you got one of the great comedians of the time, mr. lindsey graham ripping on the commodity -- comedy of immigration. senator graham: i don't care what your view on immigration is. if you deport my grandmother. donny: and you had some great ones this week, i need it done, mark mckinnon, and jeff daniels. john: i'm not going to let you go back to the airport without an answer -- >> because he's not the best case scenario, john, that's my answer. donny: nice throwback to the newsroom. i love the show, season three ok. there is one story you did not cover. alienser you believe in or not, but one presidential candidate cannot seem to stop talking about them. so is hillary clinton winning the ufo demographic? donny: guys, get on this. aliens, martians. this is big. i have been on since 2004. get on up to speed. >> if you are a martian, you want to really understand who we are as a culture. who we are as a society in the year 2004. it is an ad. anny: we will soon have added of donald trump posing as a fake pr guy in the early 1990's. you cannot make this up. >> john barron is on the phone for you? donny: john? john barron? johnny boy? i have not heard from you for a while. what have you got for me? mark: donny deutsch keeping us honest. katie couric is here to talk about the week. >> high. hi,: so, lindsey graham -- we saw there -- in an extended talk about foreign policy. i thought in a week where trump did not get enough credit for a lot of finesse moves, that was a finesse move. guest: considering how much the two men have gone through, how much donald trump has dragged lindsey graham through the mud or tried to, gave his cell phone out. i was there for that. and lindsey graham has taken every potshot he could add trump. if the two of them have a phone call, and graham admitted he asked some decent policy questions, unsurprising he does not say he is voting for trump. mark: but after what he said to us, praising trump and saying he has changed -- i think he is going to say trump is the best. katy: here's what i find so surprising for some one that did not cover political campaigns before. i am surprised a much the republican party can trash donald trump, say he is dangerous call him , untrustworthy, that he is an idiot basically, which is what they have been calling, and then they say we are going to support , him. donny: you have been following donald trump around. part of what has happened is you meet the guy and he is incredibly charming. he is a celebrity for a reason. politicians get elected and they become celebrities, ok? this happened organically. on his own. he has a very regal way about him. we are all humans and that is , what is going to be happening more and more and more. he is the ultimate salesman, and he knows how to make somebody feel special. i said i was not voting for trump, he might win iowa, and they said donny, you are one of , the ones who talked me into running. i said, i never talk to you about running. by the end of the conversation i am like, can i help you in any way? he has this way. katy: he has a donny deutsch quality. mark: that is what i was going to say. for all the donald trump has done, yet again he has done , something we have not seen. he goes on "the today show" and tells savanna that was not his voice. katy: i have seen him do this. pay attention to the number of times he says this is the first i am hearing about it. we saw him do that when he was talking about the voter pledge when he had everyone raise their hand. he said he did not see that one. there were other circumstances. and today to say he has not heard about it, it is striking that in 1990, he did a deposition that said, yes, sometimes i call it pretend i am a pr agent called john barron. yes, he gets away with it. why does he get away with it? i think from talking to folks on the road, they believe not just the system in washington is rigged. their day-to-day life is rigged. they call the cable company and they get an answering machine , or they cannot disconnect from the cable company because essentially the corporations above them want to take their money. they cannot let their kids go to school with peanut butter and jelly because other kids might get sick. down to the minutia of the day-to-day life, they think what has happened to this country? donald trump is coming out and he may be saying completely outrageous things, but they like someone is saying something crazy and not backing down. they also -- last point -- do not trust us. mark: thank you. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ mark: a partner from jgb, thank you for donny deutsch being here. awesome. until monday, we will see you ♪ greg "-- >> brilliant ideas, powered by hyundai motors. >> the contemporary art world is vibrant and booming. it is the 21st century phenomenon, a global industry in its own right. bryant ideas looks at the artist of the heart of this. they have a unique power to inspire, astonish, provoke, and shock. in this episode, korean sculptor, u-ram choe. ♪

Related Keywords

Vietnam , Republic Of , United States , New York , Philadelphia , Pennsylvania , Kentucky , Iowa , Ohio , Russia , Washington , District Of Columbia , Russian , America , American , Jeffrey Epstein , Elizabeth Warren , Sasha Eisenberg , John Barron , Nancy Kassebaum , John Wayne , Jeff Daniels , Barry Goldwater , Andrew Cuomo , Donny Deutsch , Barack Obama , Katie Couric , Karl Rove , Mitt Romney , Lindsey Graham , Michael Steele , Bonnie Keith , Julie Mcmahon , George Stephanopoulos , John Podesta , John Miller , Hillary Clinton , Paul Ryan , Reince Priebus , Tom Ridge ,