view him as a die-hard pro-independence worker. that does raise tensions for china were to operate on this very ill-conceived notion of lai. >> what i'm struck by is help us understand the politics of taiwan. i think there's a general impression that everybody in taiwan wants independence but when you look at the polls, that's not the case. most people in taiwan just want the status quo. they're not independent, but they are basically in de facto independent. if you look at this poll, he wins 40% of the vote. and the other two candidates together take 60%. does that tell you there's sort of a majority of taiwan is uncomfortable with this more assertive, anti beijing, pro washington position? >> i think you raise a really good point. if we look at polling, we don't see most in taiwan advocating for independence.