it wasn't just 86 minutes, according to tindle. >> on all of the networks. >> on all the networks. and so there's a sense that trump draws eyeballs. so he's been featured in a way -- people have called this -- he's turned this into a reality show. it's because he gets eyeballs. he gets ratings, web clicks. >> look at the g.o.p. debate ratings. a great example, 18 million for cnn's debate, maybe 8 million for the debate last night. unfortunately, i have to leave it there. >> i'm not defending that. >> what are we supposed to be about? >> are we about eyeballs or what matters in electing a president? >> i totally agree. >> that is the story of the entire year. >> when you have media outlets and i hate to bite the hand that feeds but i will talk about cnn for a minute. when you have media outlets that are raising their advertising rates because they know that the g.o.p. debate will draw record numbers and they sell these