Transcripts For CSPAN Acting FAA Administrator Testifies On January System Outage 20230216

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>> the senate commerce committee will come to order. i appreciate my colleagues being here this morning. for the united states to be a leader in aviation, we must set the gold standard for aviation safety. we know there is work to do and we have a number of recent incidents that highlights the importance of continuing to make safety the top priority. last week we saw how technology issues can impact airlines and the traveling public. today we welcome acting faa administrator billy nolen to help understand what run wrong with the faa system -- notam notam system. how we make sure the agency has unnecessary resources to modernize key infrastructure, how do we ensure safe and efficient and reliable network. how can we ensure our global competitive edge. mr. nolen understands these challenges. he ordered the first national ground stoppage since 9/11. or than 1300 fights were -- flights were canceled. prior to leaving the faa he served as the head as the head of the -- over one million active pilots, over 50,000 flights every day. the aviation safety office has a very big job. as an experienced pilot, he understands the importance of the notam system. they provide real-time safety information, flight operations and without access to this of omission, safe aircraft operations are not possible. this hearing, like last week, which i believe shows the investment in technology that needs to be made, southwest could have updated their system and didn't, and a critical event happened. now we want to make sure a critical event also doesn't happen. how do we keep our economy moving forward? these incidents are concerning, they impact americans confidence in our aviation system and infrastructure is critical for american safety and security. we need to accelerate building national airspace system for the first century, something this committee will work on. and the 23 authorization bill will give us many opportunities to talk about this issue and other issues that are appropriate in -- collies need to do their job. congress has met or exceeded the administration's budget requests for the faa facility at notam. he will talk today about additional funds, why congress needs to paint a clear picture about the deeds of our airspace system for the future. to be sure the faa must have redundancies, and not a single point where a failure can happen in a key system like we saw. we have to have theirs possibly make sure every taxpayer is provided a maximum value on return. we must see clearly the obstacles ahead and what path to make sure we have a modernized system. today's discussion on notam and national airspace are part of a bigger picture. there'll be other issues that come up todaysen. cruz: thank ym chair. while i look forward to hearing from you, i have to say i am disappointed by the absence of a witness like secretary buttigieg who ultimately oversees the response of notam. in my view, instead of engaging in politics, he should focus on the problems now and address the very serious threat we were seen playing out across the country. on the afternoon of january 10, the faa noticed their mission system failed. 15 hours later after filling to reboot, the faa ordered a full ground stop of national airspace systems for the first time since september 11. the ground stop because america was under attack. this time, this ground stop was the result of a federal agency's inability to modernize despite congress providing the required resources to do so. the washington post called the ground stop most unprecedented in the faa quote learned long ago their systems were dependent on rickety foundations but didn't do enough to update technology. despite a similar outage in 2008, the faa still has not improved the system. a technology specialist involved in the 2008 outage blamed quote "organizational inertia," something i've heard many times before when people describe problems at the faa. the wall street journal said quote, "given the importance of the faa's mission this kind of failure is hard to excuse. if glitches happen all the time why doesn't the faa have redundancy?" canada has notam system offer operated by a non-profit experienced apparently unrelated problems the same day as the united states, but cleans their cap frying. the breakdown last month was clearly a mistake. i fear it is emblematic of a culture afraid to innovate stuck operating inefficiently and illustrative of why president biden needs to choose an administrator for the faa with a proven ability to manage change within large organizations and with the requisite aviation and safety experience. the current nominee that is pending lacks that aviation experience. the faa safety mission, nolen, as you know well, is too important to take for granted . there is a front page story in the wall street journal today on the faa's inability to modernize notam. in that story an faa , spokesperson claims that prioritizing no-tem upgrades wouldn't guarantee funding from congress. that is simply not true. congress has fully funded motown 's modernization for more than 10 years. every year since 2013 congress has given as much or more than the amount requested by the executive agency, for 10 years now. yet full modernization is several years away. i am wondering why this is taking so long. is the system or through modernizing at this point? because the status quo is simply not acceptable. there must be accountability. it starts with an accountable leader. now in its third year of secretary of transportation, secretary buttigieg has failed to deliver any meaningful reform at the faa. although the notam modernization started a decade ago, this administration seems focused on semantics. whether it is replacing the term "mother" with birthing person, or creating a new checkbox on passports for people who claim to be neither a man nor woman , this administration's desire to signal its virtue seems to know no limits. even infected, instead of focusing on safety, the faa and d.o.t were working hard to change notam's name from notice to airmen to notice to air mission, which suggests the focus should have been on making sure it worked. shockingly, renaming notam did not prevent an outage. back in al gore proposed to 1994, reform the faa into a self-funding more efficient organization. the flying public is stocked with a self-regulating and flailing agency stuck in the 20th century. it is my hope that we can use this hearing in the 2023 faa reauthorization bill to explore meaningful reforms to the faa and its air traffic organization . and let me say federally, in recent weeks we have seen several very concerning near-misses that were almost mass fatality crashes. we have seen them in new york, in austin, texas, we just recently saw one outside of hawaii. i know that texans and americans across this country are deeply concerned about these near misses and i hope in addition to addressing the failure of the note time system, you will also address these near misses. why they almost killed hundreds of people, and what can be done to make sure the next near miss doesn't become a horrific tragedy. sen. cantwell: thank you, senator cruz. now we will hear from the ranking member of the subcommittee, senator moran. separate moran chairwoman, thank you. and senator cruz, for this hearing. i pleased to work beside you and am with you and the other members of this committee as the ranking member of the aviation subcommittee on commerce science and transportation. kansas is the aviation capital of the world with centuries worth of aviation history for manufacturing the first b-52 or the next generation bomber, be b-21, kansas has driven and cared the aviation industry. clusters of manufacturing navigation alongside academia and research in kansas leads the aviation industry into the future. yet the faa is at a crucial junction, and we must do everything in our power to ensure the united states remains a leader in the aerospace , innovation and safety. it is imperative for this committee to pass a long-term reauthorization. prior to 2018 we had short-term reauthorizations. it is no wonder that there is uncertainty at the faa and in the industry, when we are so challenged in getting our work done. multiyear reauthorizations is necessary for long-term planning and growth in the civil aviation industry, including maintenance and modernization of aviation infrastructure and technology i . i look forward to addressing the current backlog at the faa. i agree with senator cruz that the faa needs a senate-confirmed leader. we need to be able to address the technologies that are rapidly advancing, so that the united states remains at the forefront and remains competitive in this world. i have worked with the chairwoman of this subcommittee on advanced air mobility in the past, and further, we have worked together in advancing the aviation workforce. we have significant challenges in the area of general aviation and aviation in general the faa is a significant component of that circumstance needs our help . but it also needs to get its act together. madam chair man, i have altered my subcommittee assignments within the committee on appropriations to add t-hud, transportation, to this opportunity to try to make a difference in this arena. i look forward to really working with what i think is the kind of both points of view that have been expressed so far. leadership at the faa, necessary resources for them to do their job well. thank you. sen. cantwell: thank you. we will look forward to that leadership. i would just note before we go to the witness, that notam stands for notice to air men. i know people are somewhat bothered or think that this is not a change or some people are saying that it is being too politically correct. we have a barrier problem. we need more women in navigation. fewer than 10% of the licensed pilots are women. 5% of airline pilots, 3.6 percent are airline captains. i want to say how proud i am that the two naval aviators that flew over the super bowl were from whidbey island air station but i do think the changing is in the right direction and we need to do more to encourage more women in aviation. so, mr. nolen, welcome to today's hearing. your opening remarks. mr. nolen: thank you, madam chair. commander cruz -- ranking-member crew's, members of the committee thank you for the opportunity to , provide clarity on the faa's management of the notices to air mission system share details on recent events and explain our efforts to modernize the notam system. today is also an opportunity to discuss modernization needs of the national airspace system overall. some of the challenges we face and some of the opportunities on the horizon. we are experiencing the safest period in aviation history but we do not take that for granted . recent events remind us that we cannot and must not become complacent and must continually invest in our aviation system i . i know we are here to discuss the problems with our system last month, so i want to provide a brief background. on notam applications and january 10, services became unreliable. experts attempted to address the issue by among other things switching to the backup database . while technical experts worked through the night, the faa activated a hotline to provide real-time status updates to airspace users. there were no reports of operational impacts. in the early morning hours of january 11, the system appeared to have been restored but formatting issues persisted. to resolve this faa's air , traffic leadership directed the rebuild of the databases as the morning air traffic rush approached and work on the system continued, i ordered a ground stop at approximately 7:15 a.m. eastern time, pausing all departures in the united states in order to maintain safety and preserve addict ability. i did so after consulting with the airlines and safety experts . once the resiliency testing on the system was conducted, i lifted the ground stop at 9:07 a.m. eastern time. the faa's preliminary findings are that contract personnel unintentionally deleted files while working to correct synchronization issues between the live primary database and the backup database. we have found no evidence of a cyberattack or malicious intent. after that incident, we implemented a synchronization delay to ensure that bad data from one database cannot affect the backup database. additionally we have implemented a new protocol that requires more than one individual to be present and engaged in oversight when work on a database occurs . as part of our review of the root cause of this incident continues, please know that the faa will keep the committee apprised of our findings as . as you are well aware 2023 is a , big year for aviation. our current authorization inspires on september 30th and there is sustained energy around from both industry and government around the development of ideas and proposals to modernize the nas and the faa's approach to managing it. as we dive into that reauthorization process, there are several important points we would like to highlight for the committee. right now the faa is managing three airspace systems to serve the diverse users of the nas the first is the classic or legacy system that many users still count on. the second is a system that relies on the next generation of technology for improved communication, navigation, and surveillance. the faa has operationalized the foundational pieces of this system, and we continue to deploy services as operator equippage and federal resources allow. the third is the future. a future that has already arrived. it is the system that must accommodate new entrants in all their forms, including drones, advanced air mobility aircraft, commercial spacecraft, and other new aircraft yet to be imagined. for us to sustain implement and , plan for all of these systems , we have a lot of work ahead. we look forward to partnering with the committee to ensure that the faa's oversight and regulation of the nas continues to deliver the level of aviation safety and efficiency expected by the american public. before we get to questions, i want to take a moment to acknowledge some of the recent acts incidents that we've talked about, that we have seen throughout the system. i am sure you have seen some of the news reports and close calls on runways and other operational events. because i want to make sure we are giving the right amount of attention to all of these recent occurrences, i formed the safety review team to examine the u.s aerospace systems structure , culture, processes, systems, and integration of safety. initial focus would be to hold a safety summit to examine what additional actions the aviation community needs to take to maintain our safety record. a group of commercial and general aviation leaders labor partners and other will examine with mitigations are working and why others do not appear to be as effective. i can say that the aviation professionals who comprise the american aerospace industry are proud of our safety record but we all know that complacency has no place in air transportation, whether it is on the flight deck, in the control tower, the ramp or the dispatch center, . we are confident that we are taking the right steps here and we look forward to working with the committee and this congress in developing a long-term faa reauthorization bill that accelerates the next era of aviation. one that is safe, efficient, sustainable, and open to all. thank you. sen. fantwell: thank you, director nolen. i appreciate that. let's drill down on the notam system. one of the issues and you are saying that this involved an individual deleting the wrong set of files, we have a backup system. why couldn't we just go back to that system? congressperson: thank you, madam chair. we do have a backup system. the way the system works is as you delete an outdated notam, it synchronizes across both the primary backup and the other two backups. part of that synchronization, once he realized -- sen. fantwell: the structure of the architecture is not favorable to true redundancy? acting administrator nolen: which is one of the reasons we are in the middle of a modernization effort. sen. fantwell: you are agreeing with me, right? acting administrator nolen: yes, ma'am, i am agreeing with you. we have a 30-year-old system. let me just say to the point, 80% of the users are already on our newer system which is the federal notam system. we still have critical users on the u.s. notam system which is 30 years old. primarily you have the dod, alaska of mission in alaska, and over international users still on the system. again, we are working to be up for that system by fy 25. sen. fantwell: i think the ntsb, the authorization bill, we wanted to make progress. and they say that we are making progress on this. what is your response. you're saying now we are going to back on the human factor, and make sure this never happens because of an individual, one individual being on the spot. but really it is the architecture of the system that does not give us true redundancy. so is there a way to fall back before we go two years into the modernization? acting administrator nolen: we will continue on this journey of modernization. i have directed our teams to look at accelerating the timeline. chairwoman fantwell: what can we do today to give you true redundancy? you are trying to give me human factor redundancying in another individual. when in reality i am pointing out that the architecture of the system isn't true redundancy . if the deletion impacted but systems, then you don't really have redundancy. you don't have a separate -- our electricity goes off in our house, we go to the generator, if you have one. in this case, the backup didn't work because it was affected by the same deletion. you don't have to answer all of it right now, but i need an answer on this issue of redundancy to the system, because why we want to modernize and we want to have the right resources -- we got a pretty good offer from our colleague to drill down on the appropriations side to make sure that we have the clear understanding, but i think this has been an issue in the past. i really do think that appropriators need to understand the technology needs of the faa and support them. but what can we do now to make sure this doesn't happen again? acting administrator nolen: well, thank you. there are several things that we have done. number we have instituted a one, one-hour synchronization delay between the primary database and the backup database . that gives us time to make sure we have no issues. secondly, we have increased the level of oversight to ensure that more than one person is available when work or updates are being done on the live database. along with up-leveling of oversight within the command center to ensure that we've got leadership present. those are more in the area of administrative controls. but the work continues to get off of the u.s. no time system and onto the federal system. chairwoman fantwell: i will ask that you work with contractors to find out how to get us true redundancy in the short term in a backup database that is truly independent and could operate at the same instance. so, in my sense of this near miss with southwest airlines and a cargo carrier, was southwest in a position earlier than their slot? is that what happened? acting administrator nolen: what happened in austin, texas was something we would not expect to happen during low visibility operations where southwest was cleared for takeoff and fedex was cleared for approach in close proximity to each other . that investigation is underway by the national transportation safety board and the faa so we are looking at every aspect of it and will certainly provide updates, but it is not something we expected to have taken place . rightfully so, the fedex crew saw -- chairwoman fantwell: i am asking if you have an answer today as to why this occurred. acting administrator nolen: no, ma'am, that investigation is still ongoing. chairwoman fantwell: thank you. senator cruz. sen. cruz: thank you, madam chair. acting administrator nolen the faa has been charged with modernizing notam for 10 years. why has it taken 10 years and why isn't it done yet? acting administrator nolen: thank you for the question. we have been on a journey of modernization starting back in 2009. we brought on in 2013 the federal notam system. that process is along the way. we are in the substantive part of modernization. sen. cruz: why is it taking 10 years and why is it still not done? acting administrator nolen: it does take a while. the complexity of -- the notam is one of thousands of systems that comprise how we oversee the nas, how we communicate, how we give commands. sen. cruz: you are saying it will not be modernized until 2025, three years from now. what is to prevent another ground stop in the two to three years between now and then? acting administrator nolen: the work is ongoing. we have 80% of the users onto the federal notam system chairwoman fantwell: . 80% of users. but that did not stop the ground stop for everybody, correct? acting administrator nolen: when we did the ground stop, that was a ground stop for all traffic. . so the 80% did>> 9/11. namely asking the questions about redundancy. do the fixes you have proposed remove the risk for a similar single point of failure? acting admstor nolen: we believe the fixes we have in place today will prevent an occurrence of what we saw on january 11. -- on february 11. sen. cruz: do the fixes remove a similar single point of failure for knocking the notam system off-line? acting admstor nolen: when we think about the age of our system, the age of the systems we have, we do have redundancy there. but can i tell you that there will never be another issue on the notam system? i cannot. what i can tell you is we are making every f to modernize. part of this investigation has us working with other entities to look across the totality of our system, how they interrelate, the level of redundancies. is there any additional things we can do? sen. cruz: i think you are going to see, as you have seen, bipartisan interest in this, in the faa in ensuring redundancy, so that we don't see air traffic grounded again, and in focusing more broadly, i hope, on modernization of air traffic control. i want to shift to the near crashes we have had, and understandably i'm particularly focused on what happened in austin. two weeks ago there was a near collision on the runway at austin bergstrom airport. they southwest flight was taking off from that runway, a fedex plane was preparing to land. they came incredibly close to a crashing. millions of texans fly every year. i have flown on southwest flights out of austin literally hundreds, if not thousands of times. i actually had video that was created, a reproduction of what happened. it was based on the flight data. if we could play that, i would like to hear your reaction. >> heavy throughout the 737. >> ready for takeoff. >> 1432. cleared to land. >>1432 heavy. [indiscernible] >> southwest board. [planes roaring overhead] >> maintain 3000. 080. with 3000. sen. cruz: i know these systems are under investigation. how close you came to having a plan land on top of the, killing every person on that plane, you would understandably be horrified. it is only through, as i understand it, the heroism of the pilots being alert and seeing what was happening, that that tragedy was averted, and yet my question is how can this happen? how did air traffic control direct one plane onto the runway to take off, and another plane to land, and have them both within a hundred feet of each other. and what can we do to make sure that doesn't happen again? acting admstor nolen: thank you for the question. certainly we are letting the investigation play itself out. having been an airline captain and the pilot more than 42 years and an accident investigator, we will go where the facts take us. what is not represented on the video at the area it appears to you know i clear below in 22 days what we'd say in in pilot jargon, it was a low visibility day. it is not what we would expect to happen. when we think about how we train both our controllers and our pilots, the system works as it is designed to avert what could have been a horrific outcome. the pilots saw -- sen. cruz: let let me underscore the urgency of preventing that sort of incident for happening again. chairwoman fantwell: thank you. >> i would like to welcome ceder moran for the t-hud committee because i think it's important to note that we did fully fund the budget request for notam modernization efforts in the last spending bill. i want to ask you a simple question, should we expect write delays and cancellations going forward, if we defund or underfund the transformation? acting admstor nolen: thank you, senator, for that question. it is clear that as we are on this modernization journey, we are on it with you. having the funding that we need, having that funding can be done. and where we have the ability to, we want to be able to accelerate. senator: here is my question for you. with a proper appropriations bill, can you commit to the deadlines and schedule already established for improvements to allow tam -- improvements to notam? acting admstor nolen: yes, sir. senator: i want to talk to you about how you prioritize your budget -- you are modernizing no tam, nex-gen, mobility technologies, money is one thing, they also have a super problem in terms of leadership and analysis. how are you managing those priorities? i know you say that you can do it all, but in reality, i am wondering how you explain that. acting admstor nolen: thank you for the question. you are absolutely right. our first priority has been and always will be safety. the safety of the nas. when we think about things that contribute to the safety of the nas that's at the top of the list. we think about the security aspect. and other authorities to ensure that our airspace is secure. lastly we think about efficiency. those are the things we work on. when we think about nex-gen, what we are doing there, and from an enterprise risk perspective as it relates to the nas, that's really what informs which programs and priorities rise to the top of our list i . senator: i want to move to another topic. norad has adjusted its radars to be more sensitive to detecting potential uap's leading to an uptick in picking up potential incursions. his the faa adjusting the status of airspace quickly as regularly as norad may need to respond to incidents? and i guess more generally, can you tell us how you're transforming your systems to be integrated into what we know from our national security folks and the department of defense, a lot of this has the faa implications. i think increasing the sensitivity of the radar makes perfect sense. i also think that there may be instances now where we're gonna get a ping on the radar that is a flock of birds or some other not particularly dangerous i shouldn't say birds are not dangerous, i am aware of bird strikes, but the point is it doesn't rise to the national security level. how are you sorting this, and what changes are you currently in the middle of? i don't expect you to have a fully formed answer, but i would like to be reassured that you are working with our partners in dod to get this right. acting admstor nolen: thank you. we are collaborating on everything that you are talking about. we have a liaison officer embedded at norad, we also have dod folks at our national operation command center so if you were here to be at the command center, you would see representatives certainly from the industry, but you have represented is from government, we are looking at cyber, we are looking at uas, all the things that you speak about there is a high level of coordination across the whole of government when it comes to the security of our airspace. senator: it has been reported that changing the dials on the sensitivities of the radars is something that can be done retroactively. in other words, for the past. that you have data sets that you could actually tweak and then that might inform our national security folks in terms of how many of these uap's were flying and overtime. can you tell us anything about that? acting admstor nolen: we have capabilities within our command center and in our radar in terms of what we can see or don't see. it's a partnership effort. senator: do you have the capability to go backwards? acting admstor nolen: go backwards, i am sorry? senator: i am sorry, to say i want to know in 2018, the extent of these uap's, by taking the data you have that probably nobody is looking at, and changing the sensitivity on the data set and then that would tell us something about what was happening in the past. do you know if we have that capability? acting admstor nolen: i do not. i would be happy to get back to you. senator: thank you. chairwoman fantwell: senator moran. senator: thank you, chairman. mr. nolen, thank you for the conversation he had with me on the phone on january 11 and january 12. i appreciate that there have been conversations at the faa and within the industry whether the agency should change the system's classification from the notam systems classification from mission support to safety critical. comments or thoughts? acting admstor nolen: senator moran, thank you. certainly that is what are the directions that i have given our team. let's go back and look at our enterprise system, those we consider critical versus the support. taking a look at the classification. senator: what are some of the differences? what would be the consequence of the differences? acting admstor nolen: just the added levels of redundancy that you would expect to have given the criticality of them. senator: senator klobuchar and i introduced the notam improvement act. any thoughts on whether that would be no assistance to you and the the faa? acting admstor nolen: we fully support the goals that you have an it is much of what we are working towards. very supportive. senator: let me talk about a specific technology update. spotlight on the faa's infrastructure. would you comment on the status of replacing instrument landing systems located at hundreds of airports across the country? my understanding, at faa's current pace of modernization it will take more than a hundred years to replace those critical systems. acting admstor nolen: we have -- again, i talked about these nas's that we support. we would love to be able to censor some technology. systems that have been replaced by gps, satellite-based navigation. we do have a plan in place to see how we can draw down where we have more than adequate replacement for that. that is work we are undertaking. senator: in 2017, i was part of a bipartisan group that introduced legislation that became law. it is called modernizing government technology act. it creates a fund for federal agencies to use savings obtained through streamlining its i.t systems, replacing legacy products and transition to cloud computing for additional modernization efforts so it is incentive for agencies , departments to utilize and take the steps and have the money to acquire the latest technology. to date, the fund has invested in 35 government i.t modernization projects across 19 federal agencies. the largest project investment was 187 million dollars. considering notam's modernization, the goal is to transition to an entirely new platform. has the department of transportation, the faa, has they ever considered utilizing that modernization fund to improve no tam? acting admstor nolen: i would have to follow up on that question. senator: just providing an opportunity to follow-up. chairwoman fantwell: sen. klobuchar:. senator: thank you very much for this hearing and to you, mr. nolen. senator moran mentioned of work on the bill, but i appreciate you talking to both of us after the ground stop and the work that needed to be done with our air traffic system. what do you see as some of the biggest challenges in strengthening the residency and reliability of the system right now? acting admstor nolen: our focus, number one, is to always ensure that the system is operating every day. every day in our nation's airspace, we have 45,000 flights. that is just over 60 million a year. and we do it very safely -- over 16 million a year. we have gotten 15 years -- 14 years without a fatal accident. that is nearly 230 million flights. nearly one billion employments a year. our system is very safe. at the same time, we don't take safety for granted. we recognize we have to continue this journey of modernization so . if i look out and look at risk over all, i have a good sense about where we are and i consider the american public that we are safe. the answer is where we are. we can be better. senator: looking at transitioning out of this legacy system, what are your biggest obstacles to do that? acting admstor nolen: it's all about ensuring that we have that funding. we look forward to the president's budget. our goal is to take every dollar that we are given and move forward to modernization. we're talking thousands of systems. notam's is just one of them. we don't want to leave the committee with the impression that we fix notam's and we're done and i know you know you know that's not where we are but we will certainly have a prioritization about how we get there. no tam is a big one. we want to continue to deliver on the benefits of nex-gen everything. sen. klobuchar: senator moran mentioned the bill. the parent was that it would create a task force. -- representative stover of minnesota has got the duluth airport. it passed the house in the 1/17 congress. i am hoping we can get that done and whatever input you have. the sooner we do that, the better and then as we work toward the faa reauthorization on a separate track. last question. i want to make here is the workforce issue. we know that every industry in america is having workforce issues, including airlines and including you guys. i know that senator duckworth, senator boone, senators moran, fisher, kelly and many others, are working to expand the faa's workplace development grant programs to boost investments . could you talk about the pipeline of skilled aviation workers and what you think we can do? acting admstor nolen: it's a great question. we look out and say, how do we become a more inclusive agency, how do we reach out and touch underrepresented groups? it is one of our absolute top priorities for the agency. part of the narrative is are we seeing a younger workforce? the answer is yes. are we attracting the kind of talent we need? the answer to that is yes. we were looking to bring on more traffic controllers. we reached out with a campaign of finding folks who are wanting to be part of the faa we're expecting 10,000 applications and received 87,000. we are heavily involved in s.t.e.m. and our outreach to both universities as well as an already-7 institutions are all part of our effort across the agency to ensure we are leaving in there. senator: thank you. i appreciate it, mr. nolen. senator: thank you, madam chair for holding this hearing. during my time as chairman of this committee, we enacted the faa reauthorization act of 2018 which included several provisions related to bolstering the nation's air traffic control system and improving the experience of the flying public. as the next faa reauthorization approaches, is essential that modernizing the nation's air traffic control system remains a top priority. as i have said before, i am deeply concerned about the faa's slow progress on next-gen despite robust funding for com from congress and numerous legislative directives from this committee to complete such an essential modernization initiative in a timely manner. travel disruptions and the failure of the notam system in january have only highlighted the critical importance of technology modernization especially as it relates to improving management of the national airspace system. i look forward to this discussion and acting administrator nolen, thank you for being here. i previously mentioned the implementation of next-gen is going to be crucial in the coming years. these investments as well as employing concepts such as dynamic airspace management will allow the united states and better utilize existing infrastructure, increasing the capacity and efficiency of the nas. could you describe her faa's work at to get back on schedule to implement the various parties of nex-gen? acting admstor nolen: thank you for the question. we continue to work to deliver on the benefits of nex-gen. one of those successes we have had is going from voice to data, we have been able to eliminate, we believe, over 130,000 misread clearances. we understand that is a big issue. we continue to work on metroplexes that we have around the country, 11 of those in places. we have optimized profile descent, the ability to send out the attitude without the step downs that were a of the past. those have become more a thing of the past now and that allows -- certainly it is fuel saving and it is and efficiency. the ability for us to have airlines know when to push off the gate and onto the runway, all those efforts we are doing and we continue to do. we work closely with the nex-gen advisory committee, we have the advanced aviation advisory committee and the drone advisory committee, and all of those committees inform the work we do and we continue to look for opportunities. as i mentioned in my opening remarks, one of the challenges we face and will continue to face with nex-gen is the level of a quick page. not everyone is equipped to the same level. the ability to take advantage of old generation and deliver in the moment, in many respects, depends on what the industry has equipped, too, so that is a challenge for us that we will continue to work. senator: it's been a very slow process. i am concerned that by the time many of these initiatives you're talking about are completed, they will be already outmoded or obsolete. in comparison, the latest technology, what actions is the faa taken to avoid this issue of nex-gen implementation? acting admstor nolen: we are in an ongoing, almost on a daily or weekly basis, with the airline industry and with partners around the world in terms of how do we get better at that? the journey we are on is there, and the airlines are seeing the benefits of it. there is more work to be done, undoubtedly. back to the equippage piece, there are certain things you have to have. our ability to sunset some of the legacy systems. now that we have gps-based navigation, it is our ability to work collectively and have that similar vision in the industry. senator: as this committee looks toward developing, they believe there are opportunities for the faa to incorporate adaptive or dynamic airspace management technologies into its nex-gen initiative, or otherwise enhance real-time inner age and coordination with the pentagon and other stakeholders? i tell you that because we have an air force base and a training area, the powder river training complex, and the b 21 is coming in. we are going to be the first training unit and first operations unit there. we need the faa's help on this and it is something we have been focused on for a long time. can you comment on that? acting admstor nolen: we are strong partners not only with the dod, but with the airspace users. we welcome the suggestion and we look forward to seeing how we can do more. senator: senator: i hope i can count on your help with that because it is one of the biggest obstacles to workforce training exercises and the types of capabilities that we can use or benefit from that airspace. i hope you can help. thank you, sir. chairwoman fantwell: thank you. senator hickenlooper, then senator fischer, than senator markey. senator: thank you, madam chair. mr. nolen, thank you for your time and for you public service. as space transportation becomes more common in the u.s integrating space data into national aerospace system operations is going to become increasingly more and more important. maintaining a safe and efficient shared airspace and mitigating delays caused by commercial space launches becomes more increasingly important, as i said. so mr. nolen, can you describe the faa's efforts to coordinate with the commercial space industry to integrate space data in international airspace operations, what is the status of the faa's space data integration program to improve airspace safety and efficiency? acting admstor nolen: thank you very much, for the question. we are working hard to improve safety and efficiency. it has provided us, meaning the faa, the ability to reduce the airspace that we need to block off for flights. in the last year we saw a record number of space launches and we are expecting to see at least 1.5x if not double the amount we saw last year. this is a key technology that we're working to make sure that will help us make our airspace more efficient and reduce the amount of closures and the ability to reopen airspace faster. that is what we are working on. senator: i appreciate that, thank you. i have my requisite notam question as well. at denver international airport alone, the notam failure require results in 800 delayed or canceled flights. a small regional airport in colorado also experienced delays and cancellations significantly impacting operations, airport customers and commerce. so, mr. nolen, can you describe what technical operational improvements the faa is taking to make sure this description does not occur again in the smaller markets as opposed to the larger ones? mr. nolen: we will make sure to do our very best. it should be noted for the committee that on any given day, every two hours, theories and update from the national command center that airports, airlines and others can tune into. we also have stakeholders who are present in the command center, on the floor. our goal is to make sure we have good communication. i know from my team that this particular outage was indeed communicated out to airports and in a timely manner. but we will look for opportunities to do that faster and more efficiently. senator: got it. great. i appreciate it. lastly, the faa's facing a number of critical issues including technical upgrades, the new entrance into the national airspace, growing the aviation workforce. a critical issue is making sure there is more diversity and more equity in that workforce. based on your experiences as acting administrator, skills and experiences do you think are critical to lead an agency like the faa? acting admstor nolen: as i think about that, and whoever leads the faa, the choice belongs to the president and i know he has made a choice and expertly support the president process choice. senator: i was giving you an opportunity to do what i will now do and that is to say that i think the nominee to become administrator really does have the skills and capabilities necessary to really turn around our aviation system. he rose to the rack of commander , sergeant major in the army 24 years in the army, and i think he is someone who is used to getting things done, helping get people on the same page and really focused. he was the ceo of the regional transportation district in metropolitan denver for almost 12 years. and he helped turn around a major transportation initiative. and then he has also been a ceo of the los angeles county metropolitan transportation authority, and for a number of years now, the ceo of denver international airport, the third busiest airport in the world. the array of experience, while not all in every nation, it is all transportation have, and so many of these same situations have come up again and again in the aviation sector. anyway,, if you want. i will just leave it there. we need a permanent administered in-place as soon as we can. thank you. chairwoman fantwell: senator fischer. senator: thank you, madam chair meant. mr. nolen, welcome and thank you for your service. this past week we have seen norad track numerous unidentified objects in the north american airspace. i serve on the armed services committee and i am ranking republican on strategic forces which has oversight over our missile defense. so i am interested in protocol and i visited with northcom and norad about that. i would like to know if there is any process in place where civilian pilots that detect an unknown object while it is in flight, do they report the incident to the faa? do you have any connection with dod on it? what are the protocols? acting admstor nolen: thank you, senator question. i will just delete it from my own time. typically as a pilot, you would report back to air traffic control. if it is something they already know about, i have been flying where i have been advised that there is a high-altitude balloon. so there are processes in place to report. and then we have it, as i said earlier, an embedded team in norad in the department of defense, tsa and et cetera. senator: as far as you know, those protocols are followed? acting admstor nolen: the protocols for reporting? depends. i'm going to see from my own personal experience, everybody reports that they saw a balloon, the answer is probably no, thank you. senator: in 2021, in a report, it was stated that the faa struggles to carry out its role to integrate new technologies and capabilities across various offices within the agency . integrating new technologies and certification will be a priority as i work on the faa reauthorization. how is the faa addressing concerns in the ig report and integrating new technology? could you address that specifically? acting admstor nolen: i would push personality back against the notion that the faa is in any way wavering on our mission to make our airspace which is the most complex in the world as efficient as we can even as we embrace a new entrance. they have already set in place -- embrace new entrants. we have already set in place processes to say, how do we enable new entrants, what is the regulatory framework they will need to operate and how do we get them integrated? senator: is it going as quickly as you hope? acting admstor nolen: if you reach out to a couple of the mobility companies they will tell you they feel that we are on time. this is fairly complex work. technology can never trump safety. this is one thing that public expects and rightfully so, that we get it right. we are moving with a strong sense of purpose to enable new entrants in the market and that's one of the things we're truly passionate about. senator: will you, to working with my office and keeping us informed on the integration of those technologies? acting admstor nolen: yes, ma'am. senator: the faa has completed its preliminary investigation and assessment on the recent notam malfunction. will a more in-depth investigation and assessment be conducted and will you share those findings with congress? >> the investigation is ongoing. a couple of things, the office of i.t. and technology, we are working to assess all of these systems. we are talking thousands. we are looking at levels of redundancy, what is our, sort of our resiliency score, if you will. that work is underway. and we are thinking in terms of, what are the controls we have in place, did they work? what should have been done? what did not happen? what are the areas and opportunities of improvement? senator: did you look at how quickly the controls were implemented? acting admstor nolen: yes, ma'am, we send that to our office of safety and investigation. again would happen in the moment is pretty dynamic. a lot of things happen that should have happened in terms of reporting. but certainly looking to say how can we do this better to make sure we don't have a repeat. senator: thank you very much. senator peters. senator: senator markey. chairwoman fantwell: thank you, senator markey. senator peters. senator: thank you, madam chair. thank you, mr. nolen, for being here today before the committee. like many americans and michiganders, i am certainly concerned about the recent incursions into our airspace of a chinese surveillance balloon, as well as several as of yet unidentified objects, the most recent one that flew across the upper peninsula of michigan and was neutralized over lake huron. i have been in contact with the dod, the department of homeland security, and your agency to monitor these currents and i have called for greater transparency into these incidents. so i certainly do appreciate some of your comments that you've made here today about faa's coordination with norad so i don't want to belabor those points. you have covered those well. i do want to ask you one thing related to that. the white house and after the creation of an interagency team to study the broader policy applications for detection analysis and disposition of unidentified aerial phenomena and especially those that could pose potential security risks so my question for you is, does the faa expect to be part of that team? has the task first actually met and is starting to work? are there any additional bureaucratic improvements that you can share with congress to ensure that these breaches of airspace are met with a seamless and immediate response? >> what i can tell you in an open forum is that there's a whole of government approach to this to make sure not only that we are aligned on policy and response, that level of court nation is absolutely there. >> are airport in grand rapids, michigan is michigan second largest airport. over 200 airport operations per day and it's a part of the state of michigan. we serve record numbers of passengers that have been stymied in efforts to expand and modernize a 60-year-old faa air traffic control tower. i secured $5 million in congressional aid for the airport to begin the design process and to replace that tower but it is still not done. i would like to ask you, would you commit to working with me and the grand rapids airport to ensure that a plan to replace their tower is done in a timely fashion? >> i know there is work that is ongoing there. we will give you regular updates on it. >> thank you. the aerial systems beyond visual line of sight committee has published its report in march of 22. the report laid the foundation for providing regulatory certainty to stakeholders looking to safely and swiftly deploy and scale unmanned aerial systems. the faa's rulemaking agenda announced that a rule for deployment outside of the visual line of sight isn't expected until february of 2024. 23 months from the report to the draft rule. that's not even a final rule at that point. between the long wait for this rulemaking and difficult and advocate exemptions, i'm afraid advancements in the commercial drone industry have stalled, frustrating communities who are looking to take advantage of this cutting edge technology and economic opportunity that it represents. my question for you, do you commit to doing everything you can to ensure that the u.s. maintains its global leadership in advanced aviation and certainly this type of aircraft that represents the future, we need to lean into make sure that we are facilitating that. >> thank you for the question. let me say, the u.s. remains the leader when it comes to this type of technology. to date, we've licensed over one million drones. our projections is that we will have 2.5 million by fy 25. we are working with respect to beyond visual line of sight. we stood up and arc and a committee. we received thousands of reports. comments, if you will. we are going through the process of pouring through those. even as we are doing that, we have things like waivers and exemptions that we are using to enable operations. we will commit that this is part of our top priority for drones, to make sure that we stay the world's leader. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you, chair. welcome. it was good to chat with you earlier. i was listening to a colleague from across the aisle a few minutes ago from colorado. it struck me how much i appreciated your aviation experience and service to our military. it would just make sense, common sense is not so common anymore, it just makes sense that somebody leading the federal aviation administration would actually have aviation experience so i appreciate the experience that you bring to the table. in the morning when this issue occurred, and exchange between air traffic control in the pilot at newark airport sums up some of the broader issues within the system that go beyond the specific outage. atc was talking to an airplane, a pilot that was testing out for departure until there was a nationwide ground stop. atc asked the pilot if he had heard anything about the issue before departure. the pilot responded, no. it's a little better but it doesn't prioritize important items and it delivers it in a printed code that is optimized for teletype machines instead of plain english. let me give you an example. i printed this out. the environmental impact study was done before. i printed out the note from the federal system for a flight from d.c. back to my home airport near winston-salem. it's a 90 page document for a simple flight, about an hour long. if i didn't review the list closely, i might have missed the note for a runway closure in my designated alternate airport. it's buried on page four somewhere, between 13 other runway and taxiway notes. so i would like to ask for unanimous consent that this briefing be included in the record. chairwoman cantwell: without objection. >> you can consult other free resources provided by the faa like flight service. that system does have a summary of important note of him's -- notes. that system missed the runway closure on the summary page. here's the summary page and it doesn't have that important note. so i would have had to find that runway closure note on page 53 of a 276 page briefing. so, aside from the issues faced last month, what is the faa bringing to -- doing to bring them into the 21st century? mr. nolen: thank you. we are both pilots. we operate in a nation airspace here. this is part of our modernization effort. we will align it with the i ko standards and we will make them timely, relevant, and they can get elevated by route of flight. that's the part of the work that's ongoing. today, we are halfway there. they are searchable. you can find the ones that are relevant to your flight. we just have to do better. better means getting off of the u.s. note system onto the federal system. the last part of that is ensuring now that our system comports to the i ko standard. >> thank you very much for that answer. it makes sense to have flight restrictions around major gains -- games like the super bowl or the daytona 500. they are announced well in advanced and cover more air spates -- space to provide security. they seem designed to trip up small planes. are you aware of any instances where a 3000 foot tfr thwarted a threat from the air? >> -- mr. nolen: i am not. >> my time is short. i want to thank you for what you bring to the table, for your expertise in the aviation field and your leadership of the faa. i'm glad that a fellow aviator is at the helm of this important agency. i hope that we can get a permanent head of the faa that has a deep understanding of the issues facing aviation today. thank you so much. i yelled back. chairwoman cantwell: thank you. >> thank you. thank you for your service, sir. obviously, the system shows how fragile our aviation system has become. we heard in testimony last week that southwest airlines suffered its own operational meltdown to do an adamant -- inadequate amounts of winter equipment. southwest told us that they didn't have enough deicing equipment in chicago or in denver which is like saying you don't have enough baseballs to open the season at fenway park. so obviously, they didn't anticipate what was unfolding. a lot of it is as a result of climate change, global warming. wilmington, vermont for example, in a report out this past month is seven degrees warmer in the winter than it was just 50 years ago. seven degrees warmer. it's not just global warming. it's global we're dang taking place. you have to adjust and adapt. the craziness of the weather. the aviation system has to make the investment in order to deal with this dramatically changing weather environment due to global warming, due to climate change. so there is a dangerous connection between climate change and outdated technology and infrastructure with extreme weather events like winter storm elliott stressing the i.t. systems at the core of our aviation system. so, do you agree that climate change poise -- poses new charlotte -- chairman challenges for the airport? mr. nolen: thank you for the question. given my long time airline experience, i can say that i've operated in all kinds of conditions. when we think about how airlines operate, they all have what they have went -- they'll what they have winter operations. we all have things that we have to continue. >> do you think you have to become an expert on climate? what do you think? mr. nolen: the moreno, the better. >> that's what i would like to hear. i would like to hear an appreciation. if you are not an expert, other people have to be experts. mr. nolen: we do have that level of expertise within the agency. >> i think that's important. we are going to have to harden our aviation systems against extreme storms, heat, and other weather events. do you think that the faa needs to require a greater investment in resiliency at airports? mr. nolen: that is certainly the path we are on. that's a wonderful way of describing it. how resilient our systems are. the extent to which we build that in and bake that in. the industry is investing in technologies >> to >> be more resilient. it's an absolute priority for us. >> i'm working on legislation. we worked hard to include $25 billion for our airports in the bipartisan infrastructure law. these critical investments will be wasted if we don't address the climate-related risks. we are going to have to work together in order to make sure that they are not in denial about what's happening. just one final point. related to airport resiliency. airport service workers. these individuals are the young son heroes of our aviation system. they are often overworked and underpaid. just as our aviation system came to a stop due to the notam outage, our airports with stop functioning if our airport workers and contentious workers did not do their jobs. so i just think it's absolutely essential that we recognize -- and you agree, they are essential. mr. nolen: i do indeed. >> it's important for us which is why introduced the good jobs for good airports act which would ensure that airport workers are paid a living wage and benefits. they are underappreciated and underpaid, under supported. black, brown, immigrant disproportionately. during the pandemic, they showed up. they couldn't zoom to work. we have to make sure that they get the resources which they need. so thank you. chairwoman cantwell: thank you. before i go to our next member to ask questions, i want to clarify that the video that you saw her earlier was a simulation done by senator cruz and his team. that was not a real video of the incident. there seems to be some confusion about that. mr. nolen: i knew it was a simulation. chairwoman cantwell: you clearly did. not everybody may have captured that. we just want to reiterate that. >> thank you for being here. just a little bit about some of the unusual increases in obsession with vocabulary and language that we are seeing in some of the faa guidance and related documents related to our aviation industry. i want to ask you, did the faa issue a guidance document changing notices to airmen to notices of air mission in december of 2021? mr. nolen: we did. >> this was about using the gender term airmen, correct? mr. nolen: i believe so. >> on november 10, the faa held inclusive language seminars. are you fully or with this effort? mr. nolen: yes. >> solicitation published. the deputy administrator stated that when we use terms like airmen or unmanned aircraft -- i'm laughing because this has to be a joke. we are sending a message that only men belong in the airspace community. do you belong -- agree with that statement? mr. nolen: what i could say is that having been a pilot for 42 years and seeing the evolution of our airspace industry, i started out in helicopters and i have flown in a captain -- as a captain in big airliners. not everybody is a pilot today. i do believe, noticing that is the right thing to do. it's an accurate reflection of where airspace is today. i am fully supportive of that. none of that detracts from our mission which is the safety of our airspace. that will always be our northstar. >> it makes sense for some aviation reason. avoiding gendered language seems like a preoccupation with the words that you are using rather than the work that we are doing. i want to ask a couple of additional questions about this summit. the public notice for the meeting stated, if any employer, contractor, or partner feels excluded or marginalized because of linkage or words, the work of the agency suffers. do you agree that the feelings of employees about language are this important? mr. nolen: i agree that as we seek to attract the next generation of people into aerospace, mostly they won't look like the people sitting in this room. so if our -- it's our ability to say, how do we bring tomorrow into today, into an industry that is evolving right before our eyes. so our ability to find inclusive ways of reaching underrepresented groups is the right path to be on. >> the drone advisory committee book uses the term white as an example of the type of language that we need to eliminate. is that something that you support? mr. nolen: can you restate the question? >> i'm asking for consent to enter this into the record. it explains that the word wife is an example of the type of language that we need to eliminate. i'm asking if you think that is something you support. mr. nolen: i would have to to give that one more thought. >> i would hope that the word wife is not something that is a reasonable vocabulary word that most americans use in their daily life. it is not something that we need to eliminate. i don't have much time here. at this same summit, during a panel called how the faa is pushing gender language boundaries, a panelist stated that faa leadership brought us to where we are here today. we see the recommendations from the kitty as the foundation and the beginning of the conversation. it strikes me that preoccupying ourselves so much with the words that we use rather than the work that we do, especially as our infrastructure is crumbling, we've had major flight outages, it's a distraction and at worst thing that take sentient engine away from focusing on the real problems. i represent the people of ohio. the majority of ohioans, if there's a pilot who was offended by the word wife or the word cockpit, may be that person shouldn't be a pilot. rather than kowtowing to people who are fragile, maybe we should actually say, if you are so worried about the words that we are using, you shouldn't be flying multi-to metal engines through the sky. i ask all of us to maybe try to focus as much on real problems like the fact that our aviation system knobs to be working well as it used to, than the fact that we may use on inclusive or underinclusive language. thank you. >> thank you madam chair. so, welcome administrator. thank you for coming before the committee. i know you will be back again although that will not stop me from going beyond the stated topic of this hearing. i will start with the stated topic of this hearing. sosa notam failure happened right on the heels of a failure with southwest airlines. we had southwest leadership testify last week about their meltdown during the holidays. i want to raise a similar concern to the faa that i raised with southwest. when something goes wrong and flights are canceled or delayed to the degree that they were during both of these situations, airports need to hear from you. they need to hear from southwest. i learned from several wisconsin airports that they just did not receive any type of proactive communication from the agency about the impact of the notam failure. they only received information necessary to respond to confused and frustrated travelers after reaching out themselves to faa's local regional office. my expectation in situations like these is that faa should provide proactive and real-time updates and guidance to our nations airport. can you commit to that moving forward and tell me how you would approach that, should we ever have a failure like this or similar disruptions that require this type of communication? mr. nolen: thank you so much for the question there. let me say just to set the record straight, throughout the course of every day, there are industry calls from our national command center every two hours. on january 10, we also opened up a hotline 8:00 on the night of january 10 and anyone could call into that meeting. airlines, airports, other users of the system. so that was open. then we were talking with our industry stakeholders throughout the night. the following morning, when i instituted the ground stop, that information also went out nationwide to all airports. we have roughly 5000 airports in the country. so all of that. as well, the office of airports also reached out to provide updates on the notam outages early that morning on january 11. certainly, we also updated that once the notam was canceled. your point is well taken. we will say, can we improve our communication process? i commit to you that we will do so. >> i appreciate that. congress took action in the last faa reauthorization to move airports away from firefighting foams that contain ba.5. yet airports are still without any approved alternative. airports in my state are eager to transition away toward safer alternatives and are anxiously awaiting an approved alternative from the faa. i will note that there are now numerous communities in wisconsin whose groundwater has been contaminated with p5 and in many cases they are adjacent to one operating airport. i am aware that the department of defense has a strong role to play here of course. they recently released a military specification outlining its requirements for firefighting foams that do not contain p5. given that update, what can you tell me and what do you see as the likely timeline for finally giving airports p5 free alternatives? how does the agency see its role in assisting airports throughout this transition process? mr. nolen: good question. we are still working through that. the administrator for airports is on point in terms of working through this issue of p5. we recognize it is one of supply as we look to alternatives. airports are allowed to use actual emergencies. we have procedures where they can do it without discharging p5's, keeping that from getting into the water tables. we are working through the process of how we get there and we recognize it will take us some time. i can commit that we will follow through with your staff in terms of what those actual timelines are. >> i just would want to stress and press for all considered speed on this. the resources that we are committing at the federal level to try to assist communities with getting clean and safe water supply after contamination are in the billions. we shouldn't be prolonging this in any way. so i certainly want to press for timely action on this. i know at the local fire department level, which obviously is different than aviation firefighting, they are finding various firefighting foams that are working very effectively, that don't contain p5's. it seems that that testing can be happening at the federal level and get something in the qs and is possible. chairwoman cantwell: thank you. >> thank you madame chairwoman. i have a couple questions. you may have addressed this already. i do want to ask, because i get a lot of questions about this back home, you were aware of this the night before on the notam failure in january. but the public was not made aware until the next morning, right? including when people were sitting on planes and flights were delayed. there was no real transparency with the public. you would agree with that? mr. nolen: i would agree that the system on the night before was operating and also airlines were not reporting that there were any operational impacts on the night of the 10th. >> so how long until you knew that this actually wasn't working, until the public knew? mr. nolen: [inaudible] >> can i have my 10 seconds back? ok. i just want to move onto something else. in the president's budget, that has been submitted, there is $2.4 million proposed to address climate change. in the conclusion of that budget, it says and i quote, the faa's budget request for fy 2023 embodies the administration's priorities of mitigating climate change and increasing equity. do you believe that that is your mission at the faa? to mitigate climate change and increase equity? is that your job at the faa? mr. nolen: i believe it is all of our jobs to address climate change and is one that we take seriously. >> in that report, there's further commentary as a response to the accelerating climate crisis, do you believe that we have a climate crisis? mr. nolen: i was just at the iq convention where the majority and overwhelming fashion supported moving to net zero carbon emissions by 2050. if you look across the global community, it is one that is staring us in the face and it's one we must address. >> i'm not interested in the global community's view. i'm interested in the faa's field whose mission is supposed to be safe and american -- affordable travel for the american public. what i've noticed with agencies, heightened during covid, we went from, global warming to climate change to now the climate crisis. as you've indicated, words matter. in my view, that is meant to stoke fear and empower unelected bureaucrats to do things they are not authorized by law because it's an emergency. i've got concerns with spending $2.4 million on -- it's not really clear. i want to read you something from the same budget request. the faa will need to continue supporting maintenance and implementation of carbon offset and reduction schemes for international aviation. of course it does. the international standard. it's a market-based measure that allows international operators to achieve carbon neutral growth through the use of carbon offsets and sustainable aviation fuel. his the faa currently supportive of corsica? mr. nolen: yes we are. we are supportive of our move to sustainable aviation fuel. >> ok. i'm distressed and troubled that the secretary buttigieg is not here today. do you know if pete buttigieg, when he flies private, uses that same system, that same measurement? mr. nolen: let me say, what you speak of is private. government aircraft that are used across the government. we use aircraft for testing. the faa has a fleet of 42 aircraft that are primarily used for on route testing. i don't know how to qualify this. we are talking about public resources and not private resources. >> does the secretary use market-based carbon offsets when he flies private? mr. nolen: i can't speak to that. >> can you get back to me on that? can you get the message to the secretary? next time we have a hearing dealing with the department of transportation, we would like to see him here. he flies private a lot. he tells hard-working americans that they need to pay more for things that he's not willing to pay for. people are frustrated. can you relay that message to him? mr. nolen: yes sir. >> thank you. chairwoman cantwell: thank you. senator duckworth? >> thank you madam chair. as the senator from the great state of illinois, my farmers are very supportive of the aviation sustainable fuel movement. as a pilot, and we both started off as motorheads so welcome. i know your background in aviation includes a long history of aviation sit -- history. -- safety. a safety system should never be left vulnerable to a single point of failure. redundancy saves lives. we know that. that's why i'm alarmed that a single contractor could crash the automated notam system by deleting files. that sounds like a single point of failure to me and i would love to understand it better. this is on the heels of the deadly boeing crashes that were caused by the irresponsible decision to place passengers lives at risk at the mercy of a single angle of attack sensor. what is striking is that america's largest commercial aircraft manufacturer and the world's most important aviation regulator both betrayed a fundamental aviation safety principal, operational redundancy. it's the faa's drop to keep our airspace safe but it's impossible for them to do this unless the systems have redundancies. when was the last time that the faa reviewed its organization facilities and equipment to ensure that there are no potential single points of failure? mr. nolen: thank you. i applaud you for your service as well. great to talk to a fellow army person. let me just say, we have an ongoing look in terms of where we are. so the whole journey of modernization for the faa is exactly to what you are describing. how do we continue to build in redundancies and resiliency in the asked system and accommodate new entrants. that work is ongoing. mr. nolen: when was -- >> when was the last time before the notam crash that a review was conducted? mr. nolen: 2020, 2021. we've done three reviews in 2022. >> i would love to see those reports if possible. mr. nolen: we will follow up with you. >> the boeing investigation discovered that one employee, cautious against this single sensor in the airplane, but that concern went unheeded. how often are you briefed on concerns that the faa employees may have about the resiliency of the air traffic organization system and equipment? do you get those briefings at your level? mr. nolen: we have several processes. we have a whistleblower program. we have a safety organization and we have a voluntary safety reporting program. there are multiple avenues for the faa employees to get information to me. i have a biweekly with my audit team. mr. nolen: -- they -- >> they miss that individual? mr. nolen: they come to me for individual reports. >> i have a limited amount of time. last week, airlines for america urged the faa to expand -- extend its proposal to 2024 to requisite aircraft that will not be resilient to 5g technology. it is a reminder that this process remains a seat of the pants operation. had they better cooperated during the development of 5g, customers would have benefited from a smooth rollout of this new technology without risks to air passengers. instead, we were treated to delays, negotiations, and uncertainty because the faa and fcc failed to meaningfully collaborate with each other early and often over the years. we should never have reached a situation where faa had to consider halting flights at certain airports because they could not rule out the risk of 5g interference causing a crash even if such a risk was low. i have several questions that i will submit for the record. what i need to know is, is the faa receiving all the technical information that it needs to ensure that 5g does not interfere? do you have the resources to ensure that all passenger aircraft are equipped with the technology? this is commercial and general aviation. is the faa sharing all their information to prevent 5g from interfering with flight operations? i would ask for you to please submit your answers in writing. mr. nolen: we would be happy to respond. >> thank you. chairwoman cantwell: senator o. >> thank you for your service. let me ask you a quick question. is the faa workforce in the office five days a week now? mr. nolen: no ma'am. they are not. >> do you know how that breaks out? mr. nolen: i don't have the numbers. i would be happy to follow-up with you on that. we have folks that are in the office and there is coverage every day. let me qualify that. our operational people are indeed in the office every day or in the control rooms every day. >> you anticipate the rest of the workforce will come back every day? mr. nolen: we are working across all of government to say, as we come out of the pandemic, to make sure that we have that tempo. i want to make sure for the american public, what the work we do is accomplish no matter where the person is >>. >>understand -- >> i understand. i hope everybody would get back there. senator klobuchar and i have introduced the note of improvement act -- notam improvement act, coming up with recommendations to make the empire lit -- important pilot notification systems better. can you tell us the benefits of having this legislation and assembling these experts with a clear list of objectives and deadlines to give recommendations? mr. nolen: thank you. we support the goals of this legislation. we are working in that level. we are working with industry stakeholders. we worked with an earlier group as we started the journey of modernizing -- modernizing our notam. >> do you think that would cut down on what we saw in 2022? mr. nolen: i think getting to that advanced system and prioritizing the things that we talked about this morning will make the system more resilient. i would love to cs get there quicker. >> let me ask about contractors. private security is a major issue. we are also concerned about a contractor deleting files, causing the outage on january 11. new protocol requires more than one person to be present when database work occurs. can you tell us how many contracts -- contractors have access to the notam system? does the other person that needs to be present, is it an faa person? could they be a contractor? mr. nolen: yes ma'am. firstly, from the contractors that were directly involved in the unintentional deletion, they no longer have access to our facilities or the notam system. we have other contractors. i don't have the exact number in front of me. we also have a level of oversight. it could be either or. there is always faa oversight. >> ok. i was going to ask you a question about 5g. we've had hearings in this committee on the issues between the faa and fcc. i know senator duckworth gave you some questions for the record. what is your communication strategy with the fcc on this so we don't run up against another deadline and have another hearing and everything seems to break down? mr. nolen: thank you for the question. we are working very closely with the fca -- fcc as well as the industry on all things 5g. we've got a cadence of meetings with the fcc on this. and we are in a position where we have better alignment. we've got an absolute sense of transparency going here. >> i would encourage that. coming from a rural state with smaller airports, what would you say the biggest challenge moving forward over the next what -- 10 to 20 years is going to be for smaller regional airports? mr. nolen: what gives me a lot of hope is that we've started to see advanced maneuverability. that ability to not only go between cities but connect smaller cities as well. we think about urban air taxis and the possibilities that are there. i think it's fascinating to be quite honest. we continue to look at what that will support. i can't speak to the economics of it. that's not within my purview. we are strongly supportive of our system. how do we support the federal aviation administration? >> thank you. we have a lot of contact with them. you have probably flown into west virginia. mr. nolen: i have. >> it takes a little scale. in some cases, a lot of skill. they are very responsive to us and reply and help us in a short time. i was pleased to convey my appreciation. mr. nolen: thank you for the feedback. we will certainly pass it on. chairwoman cantwell: thank you so much. my intention is to ask a follow-up question and if anyone else shows up, we will government opportunity to ask a question. if they don't, we will closely hearing and move on. i found it concerning that the same day that we had the notam system issue, so did canada. i feel like this can't be a coincidence. we have no incidents and then on the same day, the same system has a problem into different countries. you know about the canadian outage? what did you make about the situation? mr. nolen: i do know about the canadian outage. we have talked with our counterparts in canada. absolutely, there is no connection between what they experienced based on everything that they told us and what we experience. that being said, one of the very first things i directed our investigation teams to do is to look at this from both a human error but also from a cyber. we also had homeland security working with us. what is our level of cyber resilience there? the investigation is ongoing. everything we have to die -- to date, it is not cyber related. chairwoman cantwell: so what was the outage in canada? mr. nolen: there's -- my understanding is that theirs was a database but they have a different system and different architecture. it was not related to our system in any way, shape, form. chairwoman cantwell: i'm sure it wasn't related to our system but i find it ironic that two systems in the world are out at the same time and there's been no problems with the systems but on the same day, there's a problem. i think we look forward to more data and information from you on that. back to the question on redundancy. i don't think we have true redundancy here. i want to see a plan from the faa that examines the fact that the backup systems are still subject to the same kind of -- if you want to call it human error, of deletion of files. you are building a system to try to fire wall that from not happening again but it could be a different problem. we still have a backup system that would be affected. until we get the true modernization of the system, i would like you to go back and see what level of redundancy that you really have a truly separate system that would not be impacted by this. mr. nolen: we appreciate the concern. that is indeed one of the first paths i directed as well. this overarching look by our i.t. team, doing exactly what you're asking. chairwoman cantwell: what did you come up with? you went down this road sooner than i did. what did you come up with? mr. nolen: that is still ongoing. they have a bit to do. we have thousands of systems. once that work is done, we will be happy to provide an update to the committee. chairwoman cantwell: you mean we have contractors with too much stuff and they can't get things done? is that what you are saying? mr. nolen: no ma'am. chairwoman cantwell: why can't they give us an analysis of the system and keeping a duplicate system? mr. nolen: that's the body of work that's ongoing. it's not just the notam system. looking across all of our critical systems that underpin our national airspace and the levels of redundancy there, that is the work that we have. chairwoman cantwell: i'm asking just now. i want to get an answer within a week about the notam system having a separate backup, totally separate backup that could be used. you are saying that somebody infected the file and ended up deleting something that because the outage to the system. so the question is, you are now trying to put human redundancies there so that this won't happen again. but if the same system as a network including the backup servers in other places, and whatever action somebody mistakenly takes on files, it still affects the whole system. what would be important to understand is, can the faa set up a true redundant server system that would allow for that file corruption not to happen across the entire system. that's what we need to know the answer to. i see that a few colleagues have arrived which means we have some questions to answer. i'm going to turn it over to my colleague from wyoming and then my colleague from georgia mr. warnock. we will see who else shows up. thank you very much. mr. nolen: thank you. >> thank you chairman cantwell. this is an important hearing. we appreciate you being here very much. looking forward to your testimony today and your willingness to serve and continuing this important dialogue. before i go to my questions, i want to highlight several issues that i believe should be at the top of this committee's priorities as we look to reauthorize the faa. obviously, there's no doubt that both the southwest and notam system failures have shownneed e ecosystem, both in the public and private sector. but i must note that reliability of air service is an issue that my home state of wyoming faces every day, whether there's a system outage or not. factors such as a lack of pilots , jet fuel prices, the consolidation of air carriers, the updating of aircraft capacity have left many rural communities across the country at risk of losing their air service. so as we move into this faa reauthorization, this kit -- committee must not lose sight of the main goal of our national aviation policy, creating a truly national network that safely connects all regions together. so i'm looking forward to the discussions today. acting administrator, it's my understanding that many in the aviation industry feel like the notte am system -- notam system doesn't provide information. i was sitting on an airplane when notam went down in the pilot was trying to ask plain to us. aircrews are bombarded with information, some of which is critical while others are repetitive are even irrelevant for the specific route they are craft be flying. as the faa looks to require from this outage and modernize infrastructure, i'm curious to hear if the faa has heard similar concerns and if there are plans to simultaneous modernize so that it can prioritize the information it is sending to aircrews? mr. nolen: yes ma'am. thank you for the question. two things. number one, we are halfway through it in terms of our modernization of the system. it's designed to do exactly what you are describing and what the concern is, how we ensure that it delivers to pilots. relevant, timely, prioritized. there are times when you might have to divert. we can't always say they are irrelevant. if you are deviating around a weather system, that can take you hundreds of miles off of your present course and there might be a relevant note notam notam -- notam there. we have functionality built into the system today especially on the federal system. by the time we get to 2025, we will have everybody onto the federal notam system. we will continue to improve that. following that, we will get to an i ko standard. all of that takes time. >> how would it work if it's a more localized issue? for example, i've been on planes in wyoming where there were antelope on the runway or a coyote on the runway. so it only affects a few planes. can notam be calibrated to address those sort of very isolated individual issues? mr. nolen: to speak a little bit about notam, for your flight that you are on, you have notam that are appended to the flight plan. the other thing that you do is get weather, closures, other things that may not be working in the moment. the same thing for your flight and your destination airport. what is happening at my airport? they say jackson, wyoming. those are the in the moment types of information that you would get from the airport itself. our goal is to continue down this journey of streamlining the notam system, making it i ko compliant and getting to a point where it's indeed relevant. >> so recently, you announced that upgrades to the notam system would not be completed for almost a decade. i assume it's because of the complexity of making the updates. but is there a way to expedite that timeframe? mr. nolen: that's one of the directions i've given my team. come back to me with what it would take, resources wise, for us to accelerate. we would love to see if that's possible. right now, the bulk of the work will be done by fy 25. i would like to see if we could bring that forward. there are other pieces that work into that. >> one more quick question. the faa has taken steps to prevent another malfunction such as disk -- decoupling the system and requiring that two people be presented when performing work on the system. since the issue with notam was caused by contractors deleting critical code, does the faa plan to restrict access to the notam system? mr. nolen: we do not. we have a notam system that is overseen by the faa and maintained by contractors. they are the experts there. what i have ensured that we have is the level of oversight for our the faa team and the requisite level of leadership that oversees that. >> thank you very much, acting director. we appreciate you being here. i yield to the gentleman from georgia. senator warnock. >> far be it from me to go ahead of the gentlewoman from nevada. >> i appreciate it. thank you for being here today for this really important hearing. i'm going to go quickly right into it. from nevada, big tourism destinations up and down our state. reliable air travel is essential for our tourism driven economy to thrive. in 2022, passenger volume broke an all-time record. the airport welcomed more than 52.6 million passengers. business travel is still recovering in 2020 two. leisure travel to las vegas exceeded expectations with visitors drawn to our newly expanded sports offerings. super bowl next year in las vegas and other large-scale entertainment events. the system outage last month did make clear to all americans how dependent the world's largest economy is on air travel and how dependent air travel is on antiquated computer systems. fortunately for harry reid international airport, the immediate impact of the outage was manageable as we have a majoring and dedicated employees . the outage happened on a wednesday which is one of our lighter travel days. i worry about this happening again and our ability as a nation to deal with it. i want to dock about preparing for cyberattack. the incident was determined not to be result of a cyberattack but it did publicly really reveal critical vulnerabilities like some of the other senators have mentioned. we just have to continue raising these concerns. do you feel that the faa system, that they are resilient enough to detect, counter, defeat a major cyberattack including by other nations? do you have the proper infrastructure? most important lay, the properly trained cyber workforce to swiftly support that effort. mr. nolen: yes we do. thank you for the question. we work in close concert incarnation with our other agencies. we continue in the work of modernizing the faa. >> what investments are you planning for? what can we expect to see in the coming months to maintain this level? mr. nolen: certainly, we want to get onto the federal notam system that has increased levels of redundancy versus the u.s. notam system but we still have users that are using the u.s. system. that's the work that will take us to get there. but back to the question of cyber resilience. we look forward to that end we think the controls we have in place will prevent a repeat of the event that happened on january 11. >> thank you for that. as we move forward into i.t. monetization, not just in this area but every area we have to do that, how are you working with other federal agencies to manage and prevent cyber threats? is there something that any congressional support that you can need to be sure that those collaborations are taking place? mr. nolen: it's high-level. i know the committee hasn't -- has been braced on many things around cyber. it's been a while but we have a whole of government approach. we are working across every agency and every department within the government around cyber resilience. there is that level of interconnectivity. it's one of our top priorities for the administration. >> i want to build on that. we know that we are using sir this dialogue before i questions i want to highlight several top priority was as we look to reauthorize obviously 'o s have shown the need for life or service so private 0 >> our goal is to have a system that is highly resilient and that is what we are working towards. >> i think i yield to senator sullivan from alaska. >> thank you for being here. my state has a very unique problems and challenges. 258 communities with no roads. 82% you cannot get to buy roads so you need an airplane. we have remote terrain, and satellite systems. the faa's own words they said quote maintaining the airspace infrastructure which consists of a mixture of old and new components is a daunting task for the faa engineers and technicians. i know we are focused on modernizing the no tems system -- notam system, with this alaska aviation initiative which we appreciate, are any of these going to be addressed in the effort to modernize the system? thank you for the question. yes indeed. we recognized the criticality of our systems with respect to alaska and all of the challenges that you spoke to. alaska is one of the areas that remain on the system so that is a part of our goal as well. it is to get everybody onto the federal notam system and that will happen by 2025 unless we can accelerate it. >> will this efforts result in more timely notam outages and communications at? paul you be able to -- will you be able to search the capacity we need? >> that is our expectation, better reliability. >> what is the faa focused on in terms of doing soon to address challenges to maintain a aid and communications and then upgrade it? >> there are things we are doing like around runways, we have done a lot in terms of approaches, we have some other approaches that we are doing in alaska. our commitment there is high. it is working and we are making progress. >> i appreciate the effort. i mentioned 250 communities and the oldest technology, i also mentioned highest death rate per capita in terms of flying. can the faa store more spare parts and provide more technicians? >> thank you for the idea. if you allow me to take that back to our team we will follow-up. >> one final question, i know we have a vote here and i want to be writz -- be respectful to my colleagues. the faa has a policy that we are baffled by right now, that is requiring and i still don't even really understand it, short-term runway throughout the state of alaska. that is antithetical to what we need now which is longer runways. these communities, the airport is the only thing that connects them to unless they are on the river and it is a boat, but the river is frozen in the winter, so why are we requiring in order to be eligible to reconstruct runways using federal funds that the faa is forcing alaska to shorten the length of its runways? you should be helping us lengthen runways. this is baffling to me and my team has tried to explain it to me and i do not understand. so what is happening? >> thank you for the question. let me cover area -- caveat a couple things. there is a caveat that requires when we talk about an additional 500 feet is what we are talking about we are working through alaska so that work is in progress. if it provides critical services -- >> there is no road to that. >> exactly. those are the things that play into that so that peace is underway. >> i would like to work with you to make sure we are not telling alaskan communities they have to shorten the runway when it is their only lifeline to the rest of the state and world. thank you. >> thank you, sir. >> thank you very much. families rely on the faa to ensure their flights will take off safely and efficiently. the faa notam system plays a critical role and the recent outage is concerning to say the least as my colleagues have already said. it does not just her passengers, it poses a national security at risk signaling to our adversaries that even a minor computer error can bring down flights for hours. according to your testimony, this resulted from a contractor accidentally deleting files that were necessary to maintain synchronization between the line and databases. as of january 10, if you could answer yes or no, i have to go in vote, always doing multiple things around here. did faa staff understand deleting these files could cause this outage? as of january 10? >> there was an understanding, did they understand the result of deleting files, yes that administrator knew that. it was an unintentional deletion. they did understand the magnitude of what they had done. >> how many contractors had security permission to access and delete those files that day? >> on that day, the contractors all had -- our notam system is maintained by contractors. they were database administrators. so they had access, the one rightly involved in it this event, no longer have access to our system while the investigation is underway. >> so how many had access that day? >> i don't have an exact number. that day there were two people working in the system. >> can you follow-up with me an answer in writing how many contractors had access that day? how many contractors still can disrupt the database connection? >> whether it is a contractor or faa employee our goal is to build a level of resilience no matter who is in the system and we put controls in place to make sure we have the levels of redundancy with oversight ensuring that at least two people are there when working on the live database. >> so you are saying the answer is zero? >> i'm sorry? >> how many contractors could still disrupt to database connection? based on systems you put in place now, that answer is now zero? >> with oversight we would not expect to see a repeat of this kind of error. >> thank you. if you would follow-up with the answer to the first question in writing. it is essential faa reward single points of failure which i think i am hearing you say that should not happen. correct? >> that's correct. >> no one contractor who has not had morning coffee can accidentally or intentionally ground commercial air travel for the whole country. how many other single points of failure because the the faa have within the system? >> that is a piece of work we are undertaking so part of the effort we have going with our office of i.t. and technology working to assess the eight totality of our systems of which there are thousands to make sure what we have, and we expect that work to be completed in the coming weeks. >> we do not know how many other single points of failure right now we have in our system? that is work you are doing now? >> that is work we are doing now. >> what steps are you taking to audits permissions across all these points of failure to prevent accidental mistakes and malicious and true? >> this is part of what the investigation is looking to do. we are looking from procedures, access, control, to redundancy, all of that is in the scope of the investigation. >> all of us were deeply troubled by what we witnessed. it's impact on air travel and the implications are deeply concerning. this year faa reauthorization is a good time to be focused on these issues and i look forward to collaborating with you and my colleagues as we modernize the faa to increase security to reduce risk so that all of us, people all across the country can fly safely. the chair is back. >> senator warnock you have further questions? >> i do not. >> maybe we will coordinate together but thank you. you represent such a big aviation state. i look forward to working with you on the aviation bill. any senators that would like to submit questions for the record should do so, two weeks from now by march 1, 2020 three and we asked the witnesses to respond by march 15, 2023. with that, our hearing is concluded. 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