the landmark laws controversial provisions. and the frontrunner for the gop nomination gets shaken up on the trail. all right now on "fox news sunday." and hello again from fox news in washington. we'll talk with our guests in a moment but first some late news. former vice president dick cheney is recovering in a virginia hospital after undergoing a heart transplant saturday. the 71-year-old who has suffered five heart attacks was on the transplant lift for almost two years. now, the results from saturday's republican primary in louisiana. rick santorum came out on top with 49%. mitt romney was second with 27% and newt gingrich and ron paul rounded out the field. a look at the updated delegate count shows romney with 568 delegates. almost halfway to the 1144 needed for the nomination. let's turn to the issues that will define the general election between president obama and whoever the republican nominee is. joining us here in studio is president obama's senior advisor david plouffe. and mr. plouffe, welcome back to "fox news sunday." >> thanks for having me, chris. >> chris: barack obama blamed president bush for the rise in gas prices on his watch. let's watch. >> here in ohio you're paying nearly $3.70 a gallon for gas and that is because it has gone down over the last couple of weeks. two and a half times what it cost when george bush took office. how responsible is president obama now for gas prices more than doubling since he took office? >> the point is, chris, as you see we have gone through these just about every year now. in some respects dealing with this for decades. gotten more pronounced as you see increased demand from countries like china and india. what the president is saying we have to do everything we can to produce oil and natural gas in the country and we are doing that. production at an 8 year high. triple the rigs are in the field as there was when the president came in office. but that is only part of the answer. we have to then quickly move to wind and solar and biofuels and next generation cars. that is why the fuel efficiency standards the president arranged with the automakers are is so important. in the next decade the average car will get 56 miles per gallon. the average person is going to save $8,000 and we will see billions of dollars. this is a long-term project. we have to do everything we can and peaking a hot of progress. we are not going to get the energy future we need until we have the all of the born strategy. >> chris: i want to pick up on that because as you say the president likes to say and said this week on the campaign trail -- yeah, the campaign trail, that is what it is. he supports an all of the above strategy. take a look. >> now, under my administration america is producing more oil today than at any time in the last eight years. >> chris: but the congressional research service says about 96% of the increase since 2007 took place on nonfederal lands and the crs says oil production on federal lands actually fell in 2011. so isn't the president taking credit for production he has had almost nothing to do with? >> we are aggressively permitting as you know. and you know we make -- >> chris: that increase he talks about was on nonfederal lands, not federal lands. >> we have 13% increase on federal lands in terms of permitting. we make in auctions, we just had an auction in the gulf of mexico recently, 28 million acres available. it is a private sector decision whether they want to in an auction purchase and then begin to explore and drill. if you look at what we are doing onshore, off shore, natural gas, we are doing everything we can but this isn't just about a political slogan that says i have some secret plan for $2 gas. the american people understand this. they are tired of being give and bunch of washington talking points. they know we need to use less and diversify and do everything we can here and we are getting more energy independent. we are producing more here. we are on track to double the sources of energy we get from renewables so we are making progress. we got to make sure that we really double down here to make sure that if all we do is drill and say let's let china command the wind and solar industry we are not going to like this very much here economically. >> chris: you say you are doing everything you can. i want to talk about a specific area where a lot of people say you are not doing everything you with can. the president went to oklahoma to make a big show about the fact that he was calling for faster construction of the southern part of the keystone pipeline but the map, the southern leg which is highlighted he is basically irare relevant to the states. people are concerned about the northern leg, the part above the highlighted area. the state department and epa studyd that for three years and came to the conclusion and i want to get the quote right. no significant impacts to the project from the u.s. canadian border down past nebraska, down to oklahoma. given that, why did the president delay the project past the november election? >> first of all, the southern part of the pipeline is pretty important. >> chris: but the president doesn't have that much to do with it. >> there are some permits the corps of engineers and other that have to be done.tothers there is a glut of oil this that part of the country and we need to get that oil to the market. that pipeline is very important. let's be clear the governor of nebraska, republican governor, republican legislators in alaska people throughout the state had a problem with the pipeline route going through an aquifer and they raised objections, the. >> chris: the governor is on record saying we will start it and route it around the sand hills area, go ahead, we are not holding this up, president obama is. >> the company itself has said they will be submitting a new pipeline route. ought to be reviewed and expeditiously. >> it was reviewed for three years. >> and issues raced with the water source in nebraska. the people of nebraska are deeply concerned about this. >> chris: they are fine with this now. >> they are not fine with it. >> chris: they say it will be fixed by the time they get to nebraska. >> the company that is going build the project said wait we will put through an entire route from canada down to oklahoma and then that will be reviewed. so listen, the republicans play games with this. said even though there is these concerns in nebraska let's kind of forget about them and just play politics and i think the american people understand who do you trust more on your energy future, somebody who believes that we have to do everything here in the states in a responsible way on oil and gas but someone who also believes in diversifying new forms of energy and sadly, chris, this used to be a bipartisan idea, alternative energy. sadly the republicans running for president, many republicans here in washington kind of vili fay this, almost mock it. >> chris: will the president release oil from the nation's strategic petroleum reserve? >> we have spoken of this before and i'm not going to make any news here today. it is an option that is always on the table. it was used last year because of the situation in libya obviously. >> chris: something that the white house is actively considering? >> we are always mindful of what is going on in earl its of the oil market. not going to make any news than today obviously. we are monitoring the pipeline issues and refinery issues and supply issues. obviously the sanctions in iran are working well. hurting their oil industry and hurting their economy. >> chris: what makes you think if you were to release from the strategic petroleum reserve it would be any more effective in lowering the price of oil and gasoline than it was last year during the libyan operation? >> i'm not going to get into the hypotheticals. generally it has been whether it was done in 2005, when it was done last year when there is a determined supply disruption that needs to be filled the united states and other countries, last year it was a global response, contribute some oil to help relieve that. it is really about the supply. no one should expect there is any magic bullet out there that is going to all of a sudden drop gas. >> chris: you wouldn't do it just because gas prices are high. >> that's right. there are some supply issues right now contributing. issues in sudan. you have libya is not up to where it was precrisis. so there is some supply disruption right now. this has got to be about supply. >> chris: let's turn. the supreme court holds three days of hearings on obama care starting tomorrow. according to a recent poll 67% of americans think that the court should strike down the entire law or at least the individual mandate. question, two years after it was passed why is obama care still so unpopular? >> listen, you see a lot of polls on this as do i. polls also say that people don't want to start over, this they don't want to refight the political battle. they want us to implement the law smartly and make changes as we should and give states norflexibility. i'm convinced at the end of the century republicans will regret turn against obama care. important parts are getting implemented right now. 2.5 million people between the ages of 21 and 26 have healthcare only because of the healthcare law. over 5 million seniors getting $600 prescription dug relief. women now treated equally, not being billed more. mammography care like ma'am in place. i think they are seeing it differently than what was advertised. >> chris: how confident are you that the supreme court is going to uphold the individual mandate? >> you have seen jurists uphold the law. two important conservative jurists offering strong opinions. we are confident if will be constitutional. we will implement the law smartly and inform people of the benefits available. >> chris: congressman paul ryan who will be here in the next segment came out with a new budget this week and the white house including you immediately started hammering him. i want to show you a graph that was put up in the new york times. and let's take a look at it. under the ryan budget the deficit, the ryan budget the deficit in 2016 is $241 billion. under the obama plan it is 529le with dollars. under ryan, added debt over the next ten years is $3.1 trillion. under obama $6.4 trillion and the ryan bran balances the budget by 2040. the obama plan balances the budget never. say what you will but at least the ryan budget does address our national debt. >> well, first of all, we haven't seen all of the details. there is a lot of i think it has been described as a lot of candy and not a lot of vegetables so we will see in reality. the ryan plan which supported by the presidential candidate, mitt romney the frontrunner this is really the ryan romney plan. it fails the test of balance and fairness and shared responsibility. it showers huge tax cuts on millionaires and billionaires paid for by seniors and veterans. >> chris: you don't know that. >> yes. >> chris: you don't know that because you don't know what they will take away in tax deduction. >> independent analysts say it will be big tax cuts. >> chris: no one knows that, david, because they don't know what tax deductions are going to be taken away. >> most people believe that is a conservative estimate that the average millionaire will get at least $150,000 tax cut. the right approach is the president's approach. >> chris: even though it does nothing to address the national debt. >> gets the deficit on a sustainable path. this president signed into law. >> chris: it never balances the budget according to the cbo. >> in the next 20 years gets us whew what most fiscal experts think is the right path. it doesn't strangle education or gut investments in clean energy. the right path to grow the economy and reduce the president. the president already signed into law almost $2 trillion of spending cuts. we have to reform entitlements and do it in a good way. have to obviously responsibly get some medicaid savings and then also have to get revenue primary early from the wealthy through tax reform. >> chris: i want to switch sub jebs. we will have an opportunity to go on at great length on that throughout the campaign. the president spoke out and trayvon martin this week. the unarmed black teenager gunned down by a neighborhood watch volunteer this week. does the president consider this a race issue? >> he spoke i think powerfully about this as a parent. any time a young person any person but a young person it is a tragedy obviously. i think you have seen people in both parties and i'm sure independents across the country say roughly the same thing which is this is a tragedy. there ought to be an investigation. there is observations happening locally as well as at the federal level and that is where the focus needs to be on. sympathy for the family. >> chris: does he think race had anything to do with trayvon martin being killed? yes. >> was speaking out emotionally and powerfully as a father. that is where the focus ought to be. no matter the gender or the race this is a tragedy any time a young promising person is taking from us and we want to make sure there is a thorough investigation. >> chris: i want to talk a little politics with you. some would say we already have. the economy is growing and unmany ployment rate is going down. this chart. in the past six years only three presidents seeking another team defeated. unemployment under ford 7.3%. unemployment is now 8.3%. why won't that almost necessarily beat barack obama? >> chris, i said since the day we were elected we would have a tough election and it would be close. only the great depression rivals this economy. i think it will come down to a sense of where have we been and where are we going. >> chris: how about where we are? >> we had in the last 24 montes just shy of 400 jobs created. you are beginning to see a clean energy sector emerge. this president has us moving in the right direction. unemployment still too high. middle class is still not at secure. >> chris: you would agree that no president since fdr has been reelected with unemployment as it has been for barack obama. >> we were almost in a great depression and we will make history again because what our opponent is going to offer is the same exact policies that led to the great recession. let wall street write its own rules. shower the wealthy with tax cuts and somehow hope that trickles down. not invest in education and clean energy. that is led to the recession. this president made tough decisions, stabilized the economy and has us moving in the right direction almost 4 million jobs in the last two years and the right vision for how to grow an economy that is meant to last. >> chris: thanks for coming in. please come back. lots more to discuss. always a pleasure to talk with you, sir. >> i would be happy to. >> chris: up next, the republican view on non-life-threatening issues from house budget chairman paul ♪ ♪ why do you whisper, green grass? ♪ ♪ why tell the trees what ain't so? ♪ [ all ] shh! ♪ whispering grass ♪ the trees d't have to know ♪ no, no [ all ] shh! ♪ why tell them all your secrets ♪ ♪ who kissed there long ago? [ all ] shh! [ male announcer ] dow soluons use vibration reduction technology to help reduce tra noise so trains move quieter through urban areas all over the world. sometimes the best solutions are the ones you never hear about. together, the elements of science and the human element can solve anything. [ all ] shh! [ male announcer ] solutionism. the new optimi. [ male announcer ] for our families... our neighbors... and our communities... america's beverage companies have created a wideange of new choices. developing smaller portion sizes and more low- & no-calorie beverages... adding clear calorie labels so you know exactly what you're choosing... and in schools, replacing full-calorie soft drinks with lower-calorie options. with more choices and fewer calories, america's beverage companies are delivering. is one's for all us lawn and fsmiths.lories, grass gurus. doers. here's to more saturdays in the sun. and budgets better spent. here's to turning rookies into experts, and shoppers into savers. here's to picking up. trading up. mixing it up. to well-earned muddy boots and a lot more spring per dollar. more saving. more doing. that the power of the home depot. break out the gardening gloves. miracle-gro garden soil is now 3 bags for 10 bucks. >> chris: this week the house is expected to debate and pass the budget committee new fiscal blueprint for the nation. while democrats are shower block it the gop frontrunner mitt romney has endorsed it, ensuring the house budget will be a central issue in the fall campaign. the author of the plan, paul ryan, joins us now. and congressman, welcome become to "fox news sunday." >> thanks for having me back. >> chris: we want to drill down into the numbers with you and let's start with taxes. you would create just 10% and 20%. and you just heard david plouffe say that would give the richest americans a tax break of $150,000 a year or more. your response, sir? >> we are taking away the tax shelters that people in the top tax brackets use. clean up the tax code and have a flatter simpler tax system. 8 out of 10 businesses in america file taxes as individuals. the president is saying he wants the top tax rate to go as high as 44.8% in january. you can't compete like that. canada just lowered to 15%. we are saying get rid of the special interest loopholes and tax shelters to lower tax rates for everybody and make us better wired for economic growth and job creation. >> chris: i want to make sure we are clear on this lower the tax rate. >> and broaden the base by eliminating the tax. >> loopholes and deductions used by the taxpayers. >> chris: you don't say in the budget which ones. >> that is what the ways and means committee is supposed to do. we are saying we want to do this in the light of day not in a back room deal. have hearings in the ways and means committee that chairman dave camp already started this work to say which tax benefits should go and which are the ones where washington is picking winners and losers to get to a cleaner flatter tax code. the president is proposing higher tax rates and more loopholes and complexity to the tax code which is contrary to the bipartisan consensus. there are democrats who agree with us. lower tax rates, broaden the base for economic growth and that is what we are proposing. >> i will get into the specific tax breaks in a moment. how much and you would know this i think as the budget because according to the cbo estimate take lowering the rates is going to from current policy would cost $10 trillion so let me just finish over the next ten years. so the question is how much are you going to need to bring in in closing loopholes, tax ex-pen did he tours per year? >> we can bring in the same amount of revenue with the new kind of tax system. there is a trillion dollars a year of loopholes built into the tax system. you don't have to get rid of all of them. >> chris: how much do you have to get rid? >> you do have to get rid of a lot of them. >> chris: can you give me a number? >> those decisions haven't been made because you have to decide where the tax rates apply. the point i'm trying to make is the boles simpson commission said top 23% and we are saying 25%. you can still keep the middle income tax write-offs for some people and we want to have a dialogue with the country with the american people through hearings and an open process to find out what kind of tax system we want to have while we simplify the code and get us better prepared for growth. >> chris: i just want to get in this one more time. the congressional research service looked into what are the major tax breaks and how much they are currently costing the treasury and let's put them up on the screen. exclusion of employer provided h health insurance from taxable income. $164 billion. execution of employer provided pension from taxable income $163 billion. home mortgage deduction, $100 billion. i understand this is not your commit, yes, it is the ways and means committee can you tell me any one of those four you are willing to say do away with it. >> i'm saying who would we do away with it for. the people that disproportion ately use those. we would limit those things to the higher income earners. >> chris: even things like the deduction for health insurance? and pensions and home mortgage. >> the people in the top tax bracket, take the tax shelters away. take away the tax shelter and subject all of their income to taxation and you get more revenue and you can lower everybody's tax rate in exchange. >> chris: are you willing to say it would not only be revenue neutral. >> it is. >> chris: but also distributionally neutral which means that the wealthy aren't going to benefit and the middle class is going suffer. >> we do believe in a progressive tax income. 10% for lower and middle come. 25% for high income earners. whether it is distributionally same as current code it is impossible to answer the question. >> chris: you would cut other programs by $770 billion more than the president's budget over ten years. cut entitlements like welfare and food stamps and agriculture subsidies by $2 trillion over the next ten years. the white house says you look at that and you are putting the burden for balancing the budget on the backs of the poor. >> number one the programs still grow. right now they are growing at unsustainable rates. we have seen a 400% increase in the food stamp program and that doesn't even account for the recession. the other point i would make is this. is your job or a goal to treat the symptoms of poverty to make it easier to live with or is the goal to eradicate poverty by treating the root causes. what we want to do is have welfare reform that gets people off of lives o dependency and n to self-sufficiency. unfortunately, i think the plan that we have in place the president's agenda creates more of a dependent culture and people more stuck in poverty because it denies the idea of upper mobility. this is a critical difference about repairing the safety net and making it a system that gets people back on their feet. >> chris: i can understand that when it comes to welfare and food stamps saying you don't want to continue the cycle of poverty. what about medicaid? >> midi kade is already going bankrupt. so many doctors won't even take any more because of its federal rules. block grant it back to the states and allow states to customize the benefit to meet the first quarter needs of their populations and it will still grow under the program we are talking about but we will ex-ex-pairates to ex-is shunt and customize to the needs of their population. >> chris: you are saying let's take medicaid and turn them into block grants and give them that the states. there was a new study that just came out. a study of the way that state governments do business. 19 got a c. 18 got a d. 8 got an f. there was not a single-a. and look, i mean i have been around. i covered state politics. what makes you think states going to be any better and any more efficient and any less corrupt in doing this than the federal government? >> all the answers don't lie in washington. the genius of america does not lie in the bureaucracy. the government closer to you is government more responsive to you. we believe in principle of the government by consent of the governed. welfare reform in the 90s. tommy thompson was the trail blazer of this in wisconsin. we made a successful. we should return with the 10th amendment responsibility of the states of these issues so that state government which is closer to the people involved in the programs can be held accountable and can customize the solutions. it is a diverse country. the problems in new york state aren't the same problems we have in wisconsin so we shouldn't have all the federal rules and regulations that treat us the came with cookie cutter mandates. >> chris: and then there is medicare as you predicted when you announced the budget democrats are hammering you saying you are going to destroy medicare. take a look. >> we would be so much better off as a country if we spent a lot less time and energy fighting off these efforts to dismantle medicare. and i mean dismantle it. >> chris: the congressional budget office seas under your plan by 2030, average government spending on each new medicare enrollee would be $2,000 less than the status quo. wouldn't you just factually wouldn't you make seniors pay more for medicare and healthcare than they do now. >> medicare grows at the same right under obama's budget as it does under our budget. the president's healthcare law puts 15 bureaucrats in charge of medicare and we put 50 million seniors in charge of their medicare. he is putting pure bureaucrats in charge of price controlling which leads to denied care for seniors. we are saying stop putting the rationing board in control of senior healthcare. don't change ben about fits for any one in or near retirement. to make good on the promise you have to reform for the next generation. there is a bipartisan consensus on how best to conform it. we save and strengthen the program. current law makes it go bankrupt and puts the board of 15 in control which would lead to denied healthcare. >> chris: first of all, does mitt romney have the nomination wrapped up and is it team for the party to unite around romney and stop fighting amongst themselves. >> i don't know if he has it wrapped up. we are relevant in wisconsin. we haven't had a relevant election since bush and regan. i don't know if i would say he has it wrapped up. clearly on his way and becoming the prohibitive frontrunner. the sooner we coalesce around a nominee the better it will be. >> chris: some of the candidates, santorum gingrich. >> i'm not going to get into telling these guys what to do. >> chris: one last question. one last try. you made it clear early on you were straight you were not going to run for president. i remember you saying it on this show. i want you to be just as straight now. if the nominee of the party whoever it turns out to be comes to you next august and says paul your budget is the budget i want you to be the point man forgetting this through will you be ny my runng mate. vice president. >> i'm already the point guy for running it into the house. i don't even know the answer to q4 question. quite honestly i'm focused on doing my job in congress to give the country an alternative choice on how to save the american dream from the path that the president put us on to debt and decline. i can't answer that question because i haven't given thought who that. >> chris: you are leaving the door open. >> i would have to consider it but it is not something i am thinking about right now. i think our job in congress is important and what we believe we owe the country if we don't like the direction the president is taking us which we don't we owe them a sharp contrast and different path and doing this in congress is important. i have a good job right now that chris the white house sounds like they already made the ticket. >> we will give the country a choice and balance the budget and pay off the debt and grow the economy and stop the kroneyism in washington picking winners and losers. here it how to get people back to work instead of being on government dependency. these are the decisions we have to make this fall and that is why this job in congress that i have right now is important in doing that. >> chris: thank you so much for making time for us. please come back. >> up next, our sunday group on the argument in the supreme court on weather obama care is constitutional. [ gans ] [ marge ] psst. constipated? phillipscaplets use magnesiu an ingredient that rks more naturally with your colon than stulant laxatives, phillipscaplets use magnesiu for effective relie of constation without cramps. thanks. good morning, students. today we're gonna continue... [ male announcer ] you're at the age where you don't get thrown by curveballs. ♪ this is the age of knowing how to get things done. so, why let erectile dysfunction get in your way? talk to your doctor about viagra. 20 million men already have. ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain; it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. side effects include headache, flushing, upset stomach, and abnormal vision. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away if you experience a sudden decrease or loss in vision or hearing. this is the age of taking action. viagra. talk to your doctor. two of the most important are energy security aneconomic growth. north america actually has one of the largest oil reserves in the world. a large part of that is oil sands. this resource has the ability to create hundreds of thousands of jobs. at our kearl project icanada, we'll be able to produce these oil sands with the same emissions as many other oils and that's a huge breakthrough. that's good for oucountry's energy security and our economy. we believe in what we did. we did it carefully so that it would honor or constitution. >> two years after its passage americans have now come to their own conclusion. they don't like it. they think it is unconstitutional. and they want it repealed. >> democratic house leader nancy pelosi and republican senate leader mitch mcconnell drawing the political battle lines ahead of this week's historic supreme court hearings on obama care. time for the sunday group. fox news senior political analyst brit hume. kirsten powers of the daily beast website, paul gigot and fox news political analyst juan williams. the big issue the court will have to consider this week is whether the individual mandate, the idea that every american must get health insurance is constitutional and it may well come down to the commerce clause which you see up on the screen. article one, section 8. clause 1 of the constitution which states the federal government shall have the power to regulate commerce with foreign nations and among several states and with the indian tribes. brit, does it fall within or outside the commerce clause? >> well, it is certainly true that the supreme court has granted congress wide latitude under the commerce clause to regulate things that not only are in interstate commerce but may affect interstate commerce. famously, the court has ruled it was constitutional to prevent someone from growing or penalize someone from growing a certain amount of wheat on his land. the question here, though, seems to me is whether there are limits and the court has certainly said there are limits to congress' power to legislate and regulate never before has congress ever basically commanded that people enter into a contractual relationship of one kind and there i o >> there is one argument that says it's a mabdatory contract that dissolves any contract. it has to be voluntary. i don't know what the court's going to do. i don't think anybody does. i am astonished to read commentators saying it's a slam dunk. i don't think it is. i don't think they would set aside days of argument if it were. but it's a novel question. this goes very far. whether the court will permit it, i don't know. >> i want to pick up on that. to give a sense of how broadly the constitution -- or rather the court has interpreted the commerce clause, loots take a look. in 1942, wickered v. phil burn, they determined unanimously that a farmer could destroy kess crops and pay a penalty even though he was growing them for public use. he was growing it on his farm, for his use. >> it's very broadful i think people would be surprised how broadly the federal power has been extended. and in terms of how it's going to turn out, i say the administration obviously thinks they have a strong case, or they notr would not have gone ahead with it in an election year. their argument is that because it affects such a large part of the economy t-- economy, that it affects commerce. gonzales versus rash -- >> this is how prepared we are. here's that case. this is 2005. the federal government said. >> if home-grown marijuana, we don't know the person's going to sell it, they were probably using it themselves. >> it was. it was a woman who was sick. >> but it will affect interstate commerce, you can see how broadly this goes. what is important is that both scalia and kennedy concurred with that opinion. so people are looking at that and saying, i think this was brought up 10 times in the government's brief because hayare trying to move scalia on this and they are hoping for kennedy to be their number 5. >> on the other hand, i see you wriggling -- squirming in your chair, paul. make the other side. >> you don't have to overturn the cases to hold for the plaintiffs because these cases are different. the difference in this case is, as brit suggested, the government is saying, we are going to compel to you participate in commerce, in order to regulate you. it is not a case of growing wheat. it's a case of you must buy this certain product. if you must buy this product, then we can regulate you. that's an extension of the plaintiff's argument and i think the right of federal power, an extension beyond which, the commerce clause has never been justified by the supreme court. so i think it's a novel issue. it is a very great issue because if the federal government can compel citizens to participate in commerce, what about a car? what about juan hooks? >> let me make an argument, with all due respect, you could live without reading one book. people talk about broccoli, you don't have to eat broccoli. sooner or later, everybody's going to use health care. >> how is that different from housing or transportation? most people in america need a car. all right. i want you to buy a certain car because i like the chevy volt, the government likes the chevy volt. i feel like you need to buy a certain health care product. we are going to mandate this product and you must buy t. yes, because somebody partakes of health care like the housing and other markets, we can't compel you to buy that product. >> mr. justice williams, would you like to respond? >> certainly. justice needs to understand that here that the uninsured are make a step. their failure to buy insurance affects insurance markets in the country. it drives up the cost of insurance for you, for me, for emergency rooms that have to treat people after they get smushed and has a tremendous effect on all the -- this is a classic example that fits under the commerce clause. in fact, if you look at the record, four courts have looked at this, four appeals courts, three have said, that's exactly right. one said it was premature, i guess that's a possibility tomorrow. they will say that the law is not fully in effect. so we won't rule. but two courts have said yes and only one has said, there is a problem. >> we have less than a minute left. and brit, what about the argument that the president and congress debated this for a year -- it certainly got a full hearing, that this would be judicial activism for the court to rule. if the political wants it to be an election, all the republicans have said they will repeal it, leave it to the political system. the court shouldn't step in. >> judicial activism is in the eyes of the beholder and always has been. it is improper for the court to strike down a law that it feels is unconstitutional. so i think that argument is pointless. >> okay. we have to leave it there. did you use the word "smush"? >> yes. >> you will see it in justice scalia's opinion. >> is that right? >> thank you. we have to take a break here. when we come back, rick santorum get ace big primary win. but is it too little? too late? late? the people of louisiana sent a loud and clear message. this race is long and far from over and the people of wisconsin i just say to you, on wisconsin. let's get it done. thank you. >> chris: republican presidential candidate rick santorum celebrating his big win last night in the louisiana primary. and we are back now with the panel. so, how much should we make of santorum's victory and of romney's continued difficulty, paul, in reaching out to voters in the south and to some of the conservative base of the party all across the country? >> should make something of it. it was a beg win for santorum. he needd that win badly and one 49% of the vote and won in just about every demographic except for people that make more than a couple hundred thousand dollars a year. a repudiation of romney support in the south. a blowback too for the comment by his staffer about etch-a-sketch and now we will just erase everything and start all over. reenforceed the doubts that conservatives have about romney's real core. the problem for santorum is he has to wen outside the south and he is trying to make this into a replay of conservative 1976 regan challenge against the moderate and to do that he has to win in places other than louisiana. he has to win in wisconsin. >> chris: which is a week from tuesday. >> and he hasn't shown that he has been able to do that so far. he has to deny romney delegates because romney is just piling up those delegates. >> chris: juan? >> that is exactly right. if you look at the delegate count he has more than twice the number. romney has more than twice the number that santorum does. april is not going to be a kind month to rick santorum. you go. >> chris: explain why. >> go into places especially towards the end of the month like, connecticut, new york, pennsylvania. >> chris: d.c., maryland. >> rhode island. these are more of the kind of traditional republican liberal states that romney does well in and upper income people, more educated people. so then you have to go towards may. >> chris: at the end of april you also have santorum's home state of pennsylvania. >> i mentioned pennsylvania but i'm not even sure how he would do there. he is the hometown kid but let's see. i'm not sure that that state is favorably inclined towards him especially if you look at the big cities, philadelphia and pittsburgh. then you get into may and there you could go back down south to places like, north carolina, west virginia, texas is the big enchilada if you will. that is what for agingrich had been hoping for. all they are doing is denying romney the 1144 he needs for the nomination. >> misses a key point. santorum continues to say that he can catch romney. the odds of his doing that are exceedingly long. all he can hope to do is to deny romney the majority and force a contested or brokered convention. that awareness of that will sink in with voters. and it as different matter to go out and vote for somebody you think can win and vote for somebody because you think they can keep the other guy from winning an extended contest that i think is making republicans increasingly nervous and anxious as we go forward. i think the odds for santorum are long indeed, and the next month will only reenforce that and the romney delegate lead is bound to swell. everybody at this table is now saying this was a big win for him in wisconsin last night. >> chris: louisiana. >> i mean louisiana, excuse me. he gained only a handful of delegates on romney. if he was really going to have a chance to overtake h him he needs to get delegates and win them by the bushel while romney is winning very few and i don't see that happening any time soon. >> chris: where is this race? >> romney is still the presumed frontrunner. far ahead in delegates as brit said. in louisiana i think santorum got ten delegates to romney's five delegates. and so what happens in every state regardless of who wins even if romney doesn't win he picks up delegates and so he always stays ahead in the delegates and he will start winning some of these states that juan is talking about. santorum is a real candidate. he has won 11 states. this is not a minor thing. newt gingrich who has won two states telling him he needs to drop out if he doesn't win, pennsylvania, but that is ridiculous. in terms of the 1976 regan conservative candidate. of course, regan didn't win. so unless he is setting himself up for the future which he well could be, i think it is a real long shot for him. >> chris: how about the issue that brit raised. do you think romney is being hurt by this process? >> actually, a little bit but not too much. i think in fact in some ways he is being helped because he is being forced to -- he has been forced to make better arguments than he started the campaign with. forced to put out a tax proposal better than the one he first proposed the 59 points that nobody remembers. forced to embrace-mile-per-hour of the paul ryan budget and partial ryan medicare plan to put more substance on his agenda than just his biography as a businessman which is his instinct to run only on biography. he has been forced by the campaign to put more meat on the bones and that will help him in the general election. >> i think the etch-a-sketch comment was devastating to him, paul because it played to the narrative he is a man who doesn't have core beliefs. >> but it was a staffer and not romney himself that said that. >> it applies to romney in the voters minds and i suspect that will stick around. >> chris: i want to turn in the time we have left to something else. you were talking about the ryan budget. it was interesting to me to hear david plouffe make a big deal of the fact that romney endorsed it and it was now the romney ryan plan. both sides seem to think that the ryan budget is a weapon on their behalf. the white house thinks it will show that republicans stand for helping the rich and on the backs of the poor. and republicans think it will show that they are responsible in getting government out of the way. >> here is how this plays out, chris. democrats will argue that romney has wholly adopted the radical ryan budget. conservatives will say no, i don't think we can trust this guy, he convert today late. he is etc etch-a-sketch. so in a sense, romney can't win. i think this is just talk really. the voters have to make a decision at some point about this kind of action on entitlement spending which is what a lot of what the 2010 election cycle was about as to whether they are ready to support a candidate and a party that is prepared to do something serious about them and i think that becomes a central issue in this race, good, because it needs to be. it is the central issue in this campaign. president obama has punted, no question about that. h his budget doesn't do anything about it. so that is how it should be. >> and we have about 30 seconds left. the flip side of that, do you think this is good grounds for republicans? i mean under the -- for democrats rather? under the president's budget he never balances the budget. >> it is dangerous for republicans because would be to extreme in terms of the cuts that would have to happen to make the budget work and i don't think there has been a lot of talk about that. >> all right. we have to leave it there and maybe we will talk about about it. coming up, thank you, panel see you next week. check out panel plus where we will talk about it when the group picks up with the discussion on our website fox newssunday .com. and we will post the video before noon eastern time. up next, we go on the trail. ♪ [ male announcer ] for our families... our neighbors... and our communities... america's beverage companies have created a wideange of new choices. developing smaller portion sizes and more low- & no-calorie beverages... adding clear calorie labels so you know exactly what you're choosing... and in schools, replacing full-calorie soft drinks with lower-calorie options. with more choices and fewer calories, america's beverage companies are delivering. when it comes to paint... and fewer calories, ...there's one brand that always tops the charts. so let's grab a few of those gallons- at a price that's now even lower. 'cause when we mix behr ultra paint and primer in one... ...with a few hours... ...we get more than just color... ...we get top-rated coverage. the kind wakes up walls, and reinvents rooms. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. behr ultra paint and primer in one now starts at just $29.38, it's lowest price ever. wow. this is new. yep, i'm sending the dancing chicken to every store in the franchise to get the word out. that could work. or you could use every door direct mail from the postal service. it'll help you and all your franchisees find the customers that matter most -- the ones in the neighborhood. you print it or we'll help you find a local partner. great. keep it moving, honey. honey? that's my wife. wow. there you go. there you go. [ male announcer ] go online to reach every home, every address, every time with every door direct mail. ♪ why do you whisper, green grass? ♪ ♪ why tell the trees what ain't so? ♪ [ all ] shh! ♪ whispering grass ♪ the trees d't have to know ♪ no, no [ all ] shh! ♪ why tell them all your secrets ♪ ♪ who kissed there long ago? [ all ] shh! [ male announcer ] dow soluons use vibration reduction technology to help reduce tra noise so trains move quieter through urban areas all over the world. sometimes the best solutions are the ones you never hear about. together, the elements of science and the human element can solve anything. [ all ] shh! [ male announcer ] solutionism. the new optimi. >> chris: this week we had two primaries and a >> this week we had two big primarieses, an endorsement from the '60s, making he headlines. weech day we move close victoryr america. >> at some point we need to uin my behind our candidate and i believe the best is mitt romney. >> i think you hit a reset button for the fall campaign. everything changes. it's like an etch a sketch. we start all over again. >> we're looking for someone who likes what they believe in is strong and stay true to what they say. >> i'm running as conservative republican. i was a conservative republican governor. >> giving people the opportunity for a different vision for our country not just to be a little of something of what we have. >> to sug to suggest that a romi presidency would not be y better for any conservative to than obama presidency is just plain wrong. >> everybody knows full well my passion about the beating barack obama. over my dead body would i vote for barack obama. >> this is either going to be romney or an open convention. santorum is going to get to 1144 and ron paul is not going to 1144. >> you have a lot of delegates but i like them and i want to get as many as i can. >> chris: the candidates get a bit of break. we have to wait for the first tuesday in april for the next round of primaries. that is it for today. have a great week. we'll see you next fox news sunday.