Tweeting the ed show. All right . I appreciate you doing it very much. I appreciate you having me. Its great to hear your story. Its important to hear your story and i appreciate it very much. James macdonald, thanks for joining us tonight. Thats the ed show. Politicsnation with reverend al sharpton starts right now. Good evening, rev. Good evening, ed. And thanks to you for tuning in. Tonights lead, dishonoring our fallen heroes. This republican shutdown of the government has created a new outrage thats shocked the conscience of the nation. Nbc news reports since the shutdown, the military has been unable to pay death benefits to the families of u. S. Troops who have made the ultimate sacrifice for their country. This is marine Lance Corporal jeremiah collins. His family called him jay. Jay died saturday while serving in afghanistan. Corporal collins was just 19 years old. His body was returned to Dover Air Force base in delaware yesterday. By now, his mother should have received a death benefit from the military. But instead, shes gotten nothing. There is nothing like this pain. For the sacrifice that our kids are making at the age that theyre making them, i dont understand how this can be a benefit thats withheld. I will not i wont ever understand it. This poor lady, this poor mother, this poor heartbroken woman didnt get anything for her sons sacrifice. Families of fallen troops are supposed to receive 100,000 death gratuity immediately after their loved ones death. To help them in the midst of their tragedy. Five Service Members were killed in afghanistan this weekend. None of their families got this benefit. None. This is reprehensible. America is better than this. And today republican senator john mccain, a former p. O. W. In vietnam, spoke out against it. Shouldnt we be embarrassed about this . Shouldnt we be ashamed . What do the American People think when they see that death benefit for those who served and sacrificed in the most honorable way are not even their families are not even eligible for death benefits. Im ashamed. Im embarrassed. All of us should be. Its shameful. This republican Government Shutdown has created this injustice. Its dishonored the memory of our fallen troops. Republicans need to end this Government Shutdown now. Joining me now are two veterans. Former congressman patrick murphy, the first iraq war vet elected to congress. And Goldie Taylor, a former member of the United States marine corps. Thank you both for joining me. Thank you, reverend al. Thanks. Congressman, whats your reaction to this . I think its disgusting. They should be embarrassed. This republican shutdown is now screwing with our military families who have lost their loved ones overseas. I know you talked about jay collins, reverend. I think about Ashley Peters who lost her husband jeremy this weekend. Whos a stayathome mom in montana. Has a son at home. She was one of those who didnt get the death benefits, who cant have the reception at the memorial service, who is now struggling who at her darkest moments, the governments not there for them. Because the republicans in Congress Wont put it up for a vote. Just vote. Just put a clean cr, lets get on with this. Senator mccain is right. Goldie, it is alarming, it is startling. When you look at the fact of the death benefits not being paid to the family of fallen troops during the shutdown, housing allowance, burial expenses, travel expenses. This is outrageous. The mother of that Fallen Marine talked about the stress of paying for the burial. Listen. I think we need to remember that these young men and women are going to places that the majority of us would not sign up to go to. And the one thing they deserve is to be guaranteed the benefits. Families shouldnt have to worry about how theyre going to bury their child. This is not about foreign policy, not about what our view of what engagements were involved in. This is about people standing up representing the country that lose their lives. Sure. Reverend al, time and time again, the people who are losing their lives on the front line happen to be our children. They are 18, 19, 20 years old by and large. I remember the day that a battalion of navy men came down my front driveway because my nephew teddy had been killed in the line of duty. There is nothing, nothing like a Navy Chaplain showing up at your front door to tell you in person your loved one is gone. And then not to have the death benefit paid right away so you can bury them respectfully, that you can bring your family together in an earnest and meaningful way to salute your young fallen sailor or soldier. Its simply immoral. At the end of the day, its about this. They are out to pick winners and losers. And right now our servicemen and women are losing on any number of fronts. This isnt just about wages for uniformed people. This is about travel. This is about death benefits. This is about our readiness as a military to confront the challenges that we face around the world. And so i say to these Republican House members, put it on the floor. Lets vote tonight on a clean cr. Let me ask you congressman, when confronted with this, john boehner seemed to blame the military for not making these payments. Listen to this. Can you tell us, please, what would you say to military families whove been denied death benefits due to the shutdown . Last week the Congress Passed the pay our military benefits act. We gave Broad Authority to the department of defense to pay all kinds of bills including this. And frankly, i think its disgraceful that theyre withholding these benefits. Now, the pentagon says they dont have the Legal Authority to pay these benefits during the shutdown. So wasnt it disgraceful, i mean really disgraceful for republicans to shut down the government in the first place given these implications . Absolutely, reverend. Absolutely. But you got to understand, goldie and i were one of those select few that served in the military. Its about 1 of america that serves and goes overseas. John boehners not part of that. He doesnt understand these five families that lost their loved ones this weekend in afghanistan dont have the death benefits. He doesnt understand that the va just closed down 56 centers, educational centers. He doesnt understand they shut down Regional Centers in the va. He doesnt understand that every day 1,000 veterans will get their claims backlogged because they had over 3500 folks laid off. Its a disgrace whats gone on. And i dont want care if your viewers are democrat or republican, they should get on the phone, they should let their folks know those members of Congress Know especially those republican members of Congress Know dont be hood winked by the Ted Cruz Tea Party wing of your party. Be america first. Put the Country First over the disgraceful politics that we see right now in washington, d. C. But speaking of ted cruz, let me remind you of this, goldie. Ted cruz, senator ted cruz, he trotted down to the world war ii memorial to pose for photos with veterans. Then he went right back to the senate floor and said this. We ought to be able to say regardless of what happens in the battle over the shutdown, our veterans should be beyond politics. Why would the senate want to hold veterans hostage . Because of disagreements over obama . Now, hes the one that led the shutdown. How can he accuse democrats of Holding Veterans hostage . You know, im beginning to question if ted cruz has a single bone of integrity in his entire body. To say that democrats are the cause for this Government Shutdown is one of the most despicable things i have ever heard. It is a fact that they got together and planned this particular tactic to get their own way, to try and undo a law that is certainly the law of the land. Look, i want my baseball cards to win the 2012 world series, but the giants arent going to give it back to me. At the end of the day we have to tell ted cruz and the entire caucus they need to put a bill on the floor tonight that reopens this government, they need to raise this debt limit without even putting our veterans, our Service Members at risk. They need to do it and do it right now. Congressman, president obama told john boehner its time to stop the excuses on the shutdown. Listen to this. My suggestion to the speaker has been and will continue to be lets stop the excuses. Lets take a vote in the house. Lets end this shutdown right now. Lets put people back to work. There are enough Reasonable Republicans and democrats in the house who are willing to vote yes on a budget that the senate has already passed. That vote could take place today. Shutdown would be over. Congressman, do you agree with the president . Yes. The shutdown, rev, would be over. I mean, what i get frustrated like a lot of americans that have been following this, about one month ago eric cantor, the republican majority leader in the house said if we get a clean cr, continuing resolution bill, we will vote for it. Because it makes the president want spending levels here, its lower than that. Theyre getting the cr that they wanted a month ago, but they keep moving the goal post. But now because theyre moving the goal post because they are the ones, the republicans, that are shutting down the government, it is our military families, our military veterans who are bearing the true cost of their politics. Well, i think that im going to have to leave it there, but i dont want to leave without saying, again, how disgraceful i think it is that the shutdown causes grieving families of people that lost their lives for all of us with not even the burial expenses to deal with their grief. This should be inexcusable to all of us regardless of what political ideology we subscribe to. Thank you for your time. I agree. Thank you patrick murphy, thank you Goldie Taylor for your time tonight. Ahead, why is Speaker John Boehner refusing to take a vote to reopen this government . Plus last night, we revealed the secret big money plan to destroy obama care. Today president obama went after those shadowy billions in a very tough way. And my book, the rejected stone is out today. Connie chung interviews me on my life and my evolution. Also, friend or foe i want to know. Email me. Reply al is ahead. [ male announcer ] a doctor running late for a medical convention loses his computer, exposing thousands of patient records to identity theft. Data breaches can happen that easily. We dont believe you should be a victim of someone elses mistake. Were lifelock. We constantly monitor the web so if any of your personal information is misused, were on it. Ow. [ male announcer ] call 1800lifelock or go to lifelock. Com today. [ male announcer ] may your lights always be green. [ tires screech ] [ beeping ] may you never be stuck behind a stinky truck. [ beeping ] may things always go your way. But its good to be prepared. Just in case they dont. Toyota. Lets go places, safely. If you have a business idea, we have a personalized legal solution thats right for you. With easy stepbystep guidance, were here to help you turn your dream into a reality. Start your Business Today with legalzoom. Eight days in and the republican shutdown is taking a nationwide toll. About 90 of skyline chilis business comes from irs workers. It was pretty rough. Last week was really rough. I had a day where i made, like, nine bucks total. Thats barely enough to support her two children. Ages seven and eleven. She suffers from a rare incurable disorder that affects the Central Nervous system. She was to participate in a clinical drug trial. But more than 13,000 workers are furloughed due to the Government Shutdown. And new Clinical Trials are on hold. A teacher in the head start program, robinson has also lost her child care and has no savings. Im at a loss for words, really, about it. Because im not used to not giving my kids a christmas. And its the same story in community after community. In california, officials cant track a salmonella outbreak that sickened almost 300 people. In kansas, farmers and ranchers cant make basic business decisions. Because theyre not getting critical information about the nations agriculture. In arizona, thousands of employees are stranded inside Grand Canyon National Park without pay. A nonprofit is delivering 1200 food boxes to make sure they get something to eat. But to the right wing pundits and politicians holed up in washington, d. C. , its no big deal. I think the American People have seen this as a government slowdown and not shutdown. People will recognize they can live with a lot Less Government than what they thought they needed. If theyre going to sit this out for two months or however long the president wants to be arrogant and not talk to anybody, theyre going to sit it out. The state of arkansas could help out, churches could help out. I believe no one is going to starve in arkansas because of the shutdown. No one is going to starve because of the shutdown. Each day the republicans hold the government hostage, it causes real pain. Its past time for them to do something about it. Joining me now is congresswoman donna edwards, democrat from maryland. Thanks for being here, congresswoman. Thank you, reverend al. You met wi you. You met with some furloughed workers this week. Did they tell you . I did. From the pain of being identified as nonessential and told not to come to work to the woman from the Environmental ProtectionAgency Administration whos on furlough, she said she takes care of her mother. Thats what she does in addition to taking care of herself with her federal salary. So shes worried about it. To the woman who works at the department of health and Human Services who has an 11yearold whos at home who is a child with special needs. I mean, all of these workers are really feeling the pain in addition to the businesses that arent getting business. The real impact on our local economy, and the impact on peoples lives. This is actually about people. You know, president obama left no doubt today, none, where he stands. Saying republicans are guilty of extortion. Listen to this. If Reasonable Republicans want to talk about these things again, im ready to head to the hill and try. Ill even spring for dinner again. But im not going to do it until the more extreme parts of the Republican Party stop forcing john boehner to issue threats about our economy. We cant make extortion routine as part of our democracy. Is this extortion in your judgment, congresswoman . Well, absolutely it is. I think the president has really made clear that this kind of recklessness is not only costing people jobs, its not keeping our government open, and they are on the brink of sinking our entire economy. So we cant allow the recklessness to continue. And theres no indication, frankly, if the president were to give in to this extortion now, there wouldnt be another ransom down the road. I think the president is right to say we keep the government open and can do that with a clean funding bill. And we pay our bills on time. Then lets sit down at the bargaining table and talk about what other things we can negotiate fairly as for the American People. But this is no way to do business. Its reckless and irresponsible, and on the republicans watch. This is their shutdown. Congresswoman, you said wreck our economy. Were eight days into the shutdown. Were only a few days before we have to deal with raising the debt limit. How is this possibly going to lead to ruining our economy . If im sitting home, im not on the beltway. Explain to me why this is so dangerous. Well, ill tell you very simply. First of all, its already cost 10 billion. Every week the government is shut down, it costs taxpayers 10 billion. Then you add to that, you know, when the government is shut down you may still get your Social Security checks and your retirement checks, but when the debt ceiling is reached and we default, you dont get those checks at all. And so that is really the difference between even a Government Shutdown and a default. And its not an exaggeration. I talked to bankers who are saying were not able to lend. We saw business start to go up and now its going down. Weve seen what happens to the markets. We saw in 2011 when they engaged in this exact same recklessness that the stock market plummeted 17 . Were all in danger of losing our retirement accounts again because of this recklessness. Congresswoman donna edwards, thank you for your time tonight. Thank you. Coming up, more fallout from the right wings secret plot to take down obama care days after the second inauguration. Today the president sounded off on financing campaign. You will want to hear this one. Discover card. Cashback concierge, here. What is a cashback concierge . Well theres lots of ways you can get cash back. Im here to help you get the most out of your cash rewards. Its personalized, and its free. I want that. 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Keeping up with these two is more than a full time job, and i dont have time for unreliable companies. Angies list definitely saves me time and money. For over 18 years weve helped people take care of the things that matter most. Join today. Coming up, president obama went right after the conservative billionaires secretly pulling the strings. That incredible moment next. Because an empty pan is a blank canvas. [ woman 2 ] to share a moment. [ man 1 ] to remember my grandmother. [ woman 3 ] to show my love. [ woman 4 ] because life needs flavor. [ woman 5 ] to travel the World Without leaving home. [ male announcer ] whatever the reason. Whatever the dish. Make it delicious with swanson. [ woman 1 ] thats why i cook. [ male announcer ] lauras heart attack didnt come with a warning. Today her doctor has her on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. If youve had a heart attack, be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. If youve had a heart attack, be sure to talk to your doctor trust your instincts to make the call. To treat my low testosterone, my doctor and i went with axiron, the only underarm low t treatment. Axiron can restore t levels to normal in about 2 weeks in most men. Axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18 or men with prostate or breast cancer. Women, especially those who are or who may become pregnant and children should avoid contact where axiron is applied as unexpected signs of puberty in children or changes in body hair or increased acne in women may occur. Report these symptoms to your doctor. Tell your doctor about all medical conditions and medications. Serious side effects could include increased risk of prostate cancer; worsening prostate symptoms; decreased sperm count; ankle, feet or body swelling; enlarged or painful breasts; problems breathing while sleeping; and blood clots in the legs. Common side effects include skin redness or irritation where applied, increased red blood cell count, headache, diarrhea, vomiting, and increase in psa. Ask your doctor about the only underarm low t treatment, axiron. Out for drinks, eats. I have very well fitting dentures. I like to eat a lot of fruits. Love them all. The seal i get with the super poligrip free keeps the seeds from getting up underneath. Even wellfitting dentures let in food particles. Super poligrip is zinc free. With just a few dabs, its clinically proven to seal out more food particles so youre more comfortable and confident while you eat. A lot of things going on in my life and the last thing i want to be thinking about is my dentures. [ charlie ] try zinc free super poligrip. Were back with the remarkable moment from the president today. It has to do with the explosive report we told you about last night. The New York Times revealed this shutdown crisis was months in the planning. It was a secret conservative scheme hatched days after the president s second term began. When a group of activists planned to cut off funding for the entire federal government or get rid of obama care. It was largely bank rolled by conservative donors like the billionaire Koch Brothers. Whove secretly poured millions into right wing groups. Well, today president obama took aim at that secret billionaire money in a way we havent heard before. He went right after the ideologues who are influencing our democracy. I continue to belief that Citizens United contributed to some of the problems were having in washington right now. You have some ideological extremists who have a Big Bank Roll and they can skew our politics. And there are a whole bunch of members of congress right now who will privately tell you i know our positions are unreasonable, but were scared that if we dont go along with the Tea Party Agenda or the some particularly extremist agenda, that well be challenged from the right. And the threats are very explicit. And so they tow the line. They tow the line. You wonder why Speaker Boehner is too chicken to call a vote. Hes doing what the billionaire donors want. Instead of doing whats good for their constituents. And with the Supreme Court hearing another case on Campaign Finance, president obama warned about this continuing. The latest case would go even further than Citizens United. I mean, essentially it would say anything goes. There are no rules in terms of how to finance campaigns. There arent a lot of functioning democracies around the world that work this way. Where you can basically have millionaires and billionaires bank rolling whoever they want however they want and in some cases undisclosed, and what it means is ordinary americans are shut out of the process. Ordinary americans have been shut out. But today the president went after the political bullies. He went after the secret money. And made it clear hes fighting for our democracy. Joining me now, richard wolffe, msnbc. Com executive editor and author of the message the reselling of president obama. And krystal ball, cohost of the cycle. Thank you both for being here. Thank you very is having us. Right after that report revealing a secret scheme. It was really striking for him to do that today. It was. And especially with Everything Else thats going on in the country right now. But i think anyone, and i dont care whether you like obama care, hate it, whether youre conservative or democrat, i think everyone should be terrified by the idea that a few billionaires can get together and down the road can generate enough motion in congress to shut down the government. That should be a terrifying idea. As the president pointed out, whats really different is you see these right wing groups and it started with the club for growth, now Tea Party Express and heritage action. We have a proliferation of these groups that are willing to enforce purity on the republicans and challenge them from the right. It really has led to a lot of the dysfunction we see in d. C. You know, richard, i mentioned the New York Times reported that a number of conservative groups met in d. C. To plot their shutdown strategy. The group included billionaire right wing activists and people who attended are still keeping the location of the meeting secret. The meeting produced a blueprint to defund obama care. That called for really shutting down the government over the health law. Now, richard, this is what the president is talking about. This is the politics that get skewed. Right . Sure it is, but weve seen this movie before. In the clinton years it was called impeachment. Where they didnt know how to deal with a successful democrat who could get reelected, so they come together in a pretty organized way with a singular goal of not just gumming up a piece of legislation, but taking down a presidency. Thats what really this is about. It is about something bigger than actually this president at this point. Its about constitutional balance of power. But their goal here, look. They tried this in the first term. Remember . They met on the eve of the first inauguration to say how do we stop this guy . Give him nothing. That didnt work. Okay. So they got back in the midterms. But the legislative agenda, obama care went through and other stuff. This is the same again, but its even worse. Theyre not just giving him no votes. Theyre saying were going to shut down its not just about the economy, its the World Economy. Well take them down just because of this president who won twice and we cant stand. Thats really what were looking at. And this isnt the first time president obama has called out the Koch Brothers. Last month we learned they bank rolled this creepy uncle sam ad that told young people not to get insurance. Heres what the president said. Some of the tea partys biggest donors, some of the wealthiest men in america are funding a cynical ad campaign trying to convince young people not to buy health care at all. I mean, think about it. These are billionaires several times over, you know theyve got good health care. I mean, when you really get down to this, krystal, its obama versus the billionaires. You have billionaires literally trying to scare young people from getting insurance and putting millions of dollars into this scheme. And you have the president on the other side. This is unprecedented in our history as a country. Yeah. That particular ad campaign, i just cant its unconscionable that you would spend money trying to convince young people take the risk, right . Stay uninsured. Even though you could get this great benefit from obama care, we hate the president so much that we want you to sacrifice yourself to the cause of defeating him and his agenda of providing Health Insurance to millions of people. Its unbelievable particularly because conservatives have always been the ones that have said if you dont take personal responsibility for yourself and buy Health Insurance and work to buy Health Insurance, then you deserve to get sick, you deserve the consequences of what you get. And now theyre turning around and trying to keep young people from buying Health Insurance. Back to richards point, just to undermine this president. But no president , richard, that i can find in u. S. History has had to face secret billionaires, almost Unlimited Money and trying to push the law where it can be even more unlimited. Having this kind of bank rolled secret opposition to him. No president has had to fight this. Youd have to go back to another era. Bill clinton tough go back to the 30s to find Something Like that. The scale is so strange. Bill clinton had had the ideologues, really rich people going after him. But the Campaign Finance limits meant it was much, much harder. Remember 96 and all of the Campaign Allegations against them. This is a completely different scale. Youre talking about billions of dollars in play. That means, you know, it all sounds like funny money, but it is obscene. They could put money into building religious universities. I mean, they could put money into hospitals and constitutions. Whatever they want. Literally. Youre in the just imagining this stuff. These are part of the schemes. And after Citizens United, the doors wide open and they have another Campaign Finance case in front of the Supreme Court now. We dont know if therell be any regulation at all, krystal. And the sad fact of the matter is the system is so messed up to start with, regardless of what the Supreme Court does in this case, it has such a corrosive impact on our democracy, ordinary citizens feel shut out like they have no voice at all. Now, talking about what it cousin to our democracy, besides a shutdown, were getting closer to a federal default. Economists say it would be catastrophic. But some republicans say it would be no big deal. Listen to this. I dont think the credit of the eyewitness is going to be collapsed. I think that all this talk about a default has been a lot of demagoguery. False demagoguery. Youd have a balanced budget. It doesnt mean you wouldnt pay your bills. Anyone that uses the word default is being disingenuous. This talk of default by the u. S. Treasury is nonsense. Whats scary to me is not the pending catastrophe, that is very frightening. But that they act as though its no big thing which means to me they wont even let caution guide them while theyre playing these brinksmanship games. Its profoundly depressing that people who want to play politics with something called a debt ceiling do not understand the impact of playing politics with the debt ceiling. Its terrifying. Default is the actual result of not raising the debt ceiling. They can paint it any which way they want. Standard poors downgraded americas credit last time around precisely because of this nonsense. They havent learned any lessons. Theyre going to learn the hard way, unfortunately its going to be worse than not giving People Health care or shutting down the government. This will tank the World Economy and they are on the path to wrecking this place. And they think its no big deal. The fact that they would wreck this economy, the fact that they would on a global level render this country in such an untenable position shows the kind of vociferous antiobama political hatred they have against this president. All to get their way. They lost the election, they lost obama care in the Supreme Court, they lost at the ballot box. All they could do now, theyve exhausted all their constitutional options. The last thing they could do is to break their rules to hold the country hostage and decided to go in that direction. And theyre pretending its no big deal. Thank you both for your time tonight. Thanks, rev. And catch krystal on the cycle week days at 3 00 p. M. Eastern right here on msnbc. And one more note, we reached out to the Koch Brothers for comment today. And have not heard back. Ahead, im so excited about my new book the rejected stone. Its out today. Connie chung is here to interview me on my life. Stay tuned. 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Lets go places, safely. Today the president blamed republicans for shutting down the government. New polls suggest that americans increasingly agree with him. Despite Speaker Boehners best efforts, americans see right through the gop antics. A Washington Post poll shows 70 of the nation disapproves of the way the republicans are handling the shutdown. Theres more. A National Journal poll shows 69 disapprove. And if that wasnt enough, a cbs news poll shows 72 disapprove. The president s clear on this. And so are americans. Its time for republicans to see the light. Welcome back to politicsnation. Its an exciting day. My new book is available today. Its called the rejected stone. We flipped the tables and i asked a special guest to interview me about the book. Im connie chung, not reverend sharpton. And im sitting here because im hosting this particular segment. Have you ever heard someone say, oh, yeah, reverend sharpton. I know him hes that loud mouthed troublemaker hustler from the hood. You know, the guy who wears sweat suits and the gold medallions and hes got that james brown hairdo. Well, reverend sharpton did run for u. S. Mayor, the u. S. Senate in the 90s. Even president in 2004. A National Civil rights leader whos seen with bush, clinton, obama, mandela, even arafat. Who is he . Is he really an ordained minister . Well, in fact, he started preaching at his church when he was only four years old. They called him the boy preacher, the wonder boy preacher. The reverend alfred sharpton. He even traveled the circuit on the road opening for the great gospel singer. You grew up in a nice neighborhood in queens. You had a mom, dad, older sister. And everything was really pretty good. Your father was in the construction business. And you had cadillacs. Yeah. He used to buy two a year. One for my mother, one for him. So you were a happy little guy. You even took your sisters dolls and lined them up as if they were sitting in pews and then you used to practice. Yeah. He my mother had built me a church in the basement and id line up and preach to my sisters dolls. The best congregation i ever had, by the way. They never complained. You were kind of weird to your friends, but then one day something terrible, terrible happened and it really shattered your world. What happened . My father left the family, abandoned the family. My stepsister and he had an affair. This is separate from your from my mothers first marriage. And they moved out. And this incestrial relation broke the family. We stayed in the house as long as we could. Couldnt pay bills. I went from being this boy preacher that everyone knew when and im nine years old to the kid who didnt have lights and gas in the house. Had to do homework by candle light. And i became, like, the laugh, the joke, the finger point. It was very humiliating. I felt more abandoned by my father. I looked up to my father. I looked like him, named after him. And he left me. I think it was you felt personally i took it very personally. More than i wanted to admit growing up, i think. Well when you all had to move to brooklyn. You describe it as a ghetto. We moved at first to what is called the projects and an apartment in groundsville. Hi never lived in the quote, hood. Because i grew up and my father owned the houses i was born in and in the one in queens. Now im in an area where they dont pick up the garbage every day, where theres crime, where theres all kinds of things. You call an ambulance, it doesnt come. And i had never known that existed. And i think thats when my activism started. I was around ten then. Because i knew a better life and didnt understand why it was different there and that started my rebellion. I said to my newfound friends what do you mean the ambulance will be here in hours . Somebodys suffering. And i think thats where i started getting even at that young age a sense of it was different for different zip codes. Well, did you get into drugs and alcohol like everybody else . No. I mean, it was there. I think what saved me from drugs and alcohol was the church. I was still a boy preacher. I got more involved in the church. My bishop kind of took me even closer to him. Because he knew the trauma i was going through. He would literally take me to then sears and robuck and buy me suits to preach in and let me run the service on friday nights. And my mother became a domestic worker. A woman who used to drive her own cadillacs was now scrubbing floors. And we were on welfare and food stamps. But she never let me accept that was an excuse not to do well. I would walk her to the subway every morning, 5 30 in the morning. I think thats why i still get up early. Why did you do that . I was afraid someone would snatch her pocketbook. I would walk her all the way to the subways. She said to me youre going to be somebody. Dont worry about this. You grow up and you be somebody. She would put me around people like bishop washington and later reverend jones. And i took to them to be the father i didnt have to try to learn manhood. And i went through a life of searching for fathers. And you did. You found in james brown. You found him at 18. And you followed him around on the road. I talk about that in the book because i wanted people its not as much about my story as giving anecdotes of my story for people to figure out for them. Let me talk to you about them. Because you were for introspective in the book. And i never realized that you engaged in such selfexamination from the time for example, when you were in jail, you were incarcerated and you instead of i dont know, doing what other people do in jail, you read. You read about nelson mandela. And you thought about your life and what you were doing. Now, throughout the book, you do that, and you impart the wisdom that you garnered from living the life of hard knocks. I went to jail 90 days for leading a nonviolent protest in puerto rico. Protest of environmental conditions. And in those 90 days, i used it to have a meeting with al sharpton. I thought all my life i had been in social justice and the ministry, but some of this stuff you got extreme. Some of this stuff, being more theatrical than you could have. Are you going to gear toward really getting things done . Or are you going to gear toward just drama with no strategy for end results . Okay. Lets take an example. Heres a 15yearold girl, you became indelibly linked to her because you stood up for her cause. 15 years old, accused a gang of white men of raping her. In your book you said you have made some painful mistakes and linked in there when youre discussing her, you said the mistake you made in that case was being too emotional. Allowing your personal emotions to get through. Well, my emotions didnt make me do something i did not believe was true. I never said anything about any case i didnt believe. What i did do was make it personal, make a personal attacks between the prosecutor and us whereas now like when im in a Trayvon Martin case or the gina 6 case, its not about the prosecutor. Its about getting justice. And its not even about representing the particular victim. Its about representing the cause. I would do all of these cases the same but not the same way. Because our job is to fight to get them in a court of law as we did the zimmerman case so they can be properly litigated. Ive hijacked your show long enough. I thought you were a journalist. Rejected stone. There you go. Thank you so much. Thank you for doing this. And thank you for having me. Well be right back. To the elegant trim in each and every piece, kohler will make your reality a dream. I wanted to ask you a couple questions. Card. 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