until we strategically over the next however many decades help mexico increase its own economy so that you don't have that entropy, then i think it's going to be a problem forever. >> pilar, take on the demand-and-supply question here. if there weren't the demand, would there be the supply? >> well but that is the thing. there's always going to be a demand, unless the united states applies labor laws the way they're supposed to be applied. the problem is, is usually only the immigrants are held accountable. but not the businesses. not the big businesses. not the -- >> not under the arizona law. >> excuse me? >> under the arizona law, businesses are specifically held responsible. >> but we're talking about arizona and we're not talking about, i don't know, 40 or 50 years of not really cracking down on businesses that hire people. and exploit people. because that's why they hire